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Well, at least you're gentlemen about it; and from the business end, you know what you're talking about. You're not crude and blaming one group over another.
For my part, because I work in healthcare and about 3/4 my family work in healthcare, it's just in the blood. You will never get me to say that healthcare isn't a right. It's not being contrary...it's not that I don't face facts...it's that I cannot imagine NOT taking care of someone who needs my help. Most healthcare providers (key word most) will say the same thing. ..
The predominant insurance model we've been saddled with is not viable. It's fundamentally irrational to think that you can pay a low monthly fee and have all your health care expenses magically taken care of. This delusion is killing us.
The fact of the matter is, insurance is a bad deal. It's a gamble that, for most of us, doesn't pay off. The more you can pay out of pocket, and the less you must use costly insurance, the better. Not only is it a bad investment at a personal level, it's deeply destructive to the health care market.
To fix it, we've got to get it through our heads that we have to pay for health care, just like we pay for everything else. We need to remove all the legal infrastructure propping up the delusion and, if anything, encourage people to have less insurance. Only then will real market pressures come to bear, only then will providers have a genuine incentive to bring down prices and provide cost effective care.
Well said and 100% on it!
Well, at least you're gentlemen about it; and from the business end, you know what you're talking about. You're not crude and blaming one group over another.
For my part, because I work in healthcare and about 3/4 my family work in healthcare, it's just in the blood. You will never get me to say that healthcare isn't a right. It's not being contrary...it's not that I don't face facts...it's that I cannot imagine NOT taking care of someone who needs my help. Most healthcare providers (key word most) will say the same thing. People who are in it at my level sure as hell don't do it for the money. There is the adrenaline rush of some of the more challenging patients. But then there are the kidney stone patients...the look of gratitude when their pain is finally managed, and you stop their vomiting. (We're usually full of gratitude at that moment, as well.
Or a woman that I treated years ago who had lost her husband a week earlier. She was in a group therapy session for grieving widows and widowers. She had barely slept for a week, and was understandably inconsolable. Got orders for IV valium. The transport was less than 10 minutes. It was rewarding to see that woman sleeping peacefully, when I left. Sure it was a temporary fix, but it was one that she needed at that moment.
Okay....I'll put the violin and piano away. Seriously. It gets in your blood. It's hard to imagine doing anything else.
Considering medical bills are the number one cause of bankruptcy, "health care" isn't a "right" nor a "privilege".
Health Care is a necessity. I thought that would be obvious to those on the right who claim they are so "fiscally conservative". Guess that's not the case.
So, should government always be responsible for the number one cause of bankruptcy?
What about number two?
Number two is what Republicans shower on the US.
Obviously, when people go bankrupt over medical bills, it's the people who suffer. The same people who get taxed to fund the government. They end up "stuck" with the bill.
Right wingers have this bizarre idea that our government is some kind of separate cabal that "controls" the US. It's part of their right wing brainwashing.
The predominant insurance model we've been saddled with is not viable. It's fundamentally irrational to think that you can pay a low monthly fee and have all your health care expenses magically taken care of. This delusion is killing us.
The fact of the matter is, insurance is a bad deal. It's a gamble that, for most of us, doesn't pay off. The more you can pay out of pocket, and the less you must use costly insurance, the better. Not only is it a bad investment at a personal level, it's deeply destructive to the health care market.
To fix it, we've got to get it through our heads that we have to pay for health care, just like we pay for everything else. We need to remove all the legal infrastructure propping up the delusion and, if anything, encourage people to have less insurance. Only then will real market pressures come to bear, only then will providers have a genuine incentive to bring down prices and provide cost effective care.
Well said and 100% on it!
Well, at least you're gentlemen about it; and from the business end, you know what you're talking about. You're not crude and blaming one group over another.
For my part, because I work in healthcare and about 3/4 my family work in healthcare, it's just in the blood. You will never get me to say that healthcare isn't a right. It's not being contrary...it's not that I don't face facts...it's that I cannot imagine NOT taking care of someone who needs my help. Most healthcare providers (key word most) will say the same thing. People who are in it at my level sure as hell don't do it for the money. There is the adrenaline rush of some of the more challenging patients. But then there are the kidney stone patients...the look of gratitude when their pain is finally managed, and you stop their vomiting. (We're usually full of gratitude at that moment, as well.
Or a woman that I treated years ago who had lost her husband a week earlier. She was in a group therapy session for grieving widows and widowers. She had barely slept for a week, and was understandably inconsolable. Got orders for IV valium. The transport was less than 10 minutes. It was rewarding to see that woman sleeping peacefully, when I left. Sure it was a temporary fix, but it was one that she needed at that moment.
Okay....I'll put the violin and piano away. Seriously. It gets in your blood. It's hard to imagine doing anything else.
Well said and 100% on it!
Well, at least you're gentlemen about it; and from the business end, you know what you're talking about. You're not crude and blaming one group over another.
For my part, because I work in healthcare and about 3/4 my family work in healthcare, it's just in the blood. You will never get me to say that healthcare isn't a right. It's not being contrary...it's not that I don't face facts...it's that I cannot imagine NOT taking care of someone who needs my help. Most healthcare providers (key word most) will say the same thing. People who are in it at my level sure as hell don't do it for the money. There is the adrenaline rush of some of the more challenging patients. But then there are the kidney stone patients...the look of gratitude when their pain is finally managed, and you stop their vomiting. (We're usually full of gratitude at that moment, as well.
Or a woman that I treated years ago who had lost her husband a week earlier. She was in a group therapy session for grieving widows and widowers. She had barely slept for a week, and was understandably inconsolable. Got orders for IV valium. The transport was less than 10 minutes. It was rewarding to see that woman sleeping peacefully, when I left. Sure it was a temporary fix, but it was one that she needed at that moment.
Okay....I'll put the violin and piano away. Seriously. It gets in your blood. It's hard to imagine doing anything else.
I agree.... i cant imagine not taking care of someone.... I understand what you mean by its in the blood
You do realize that you can do it for free and not get paid for it. Same for the doctors. Since that is never going to happen, health care costs are going to be high. No way around that.
The problem comes when i walk out of the ER with a band aid, some neosproine and a prescription.......and it costs me 6K
Well said and 100% on it!
Well, at least you're gentlemen about it; and from the business end, you know what you're talking about. You're not crude and blaming one group over another.
For my part, because I work in healthcare and about 3/4 my family work in healthcare, it's just in the blood. You will never get me to say that healthcare isn't a right. It's not being contrary...it's not that I don't face facts...it's that I cannot imagine NOT taking care of someone who needs my help. Most healthcare providers (key word most) will say the same thing. People who are in it at my level sure as hell don't do it for the money. There is the adrenaline rush of some of the more challenging patients. But then there are the kidney stone patients...the look of gratitude when their pain is finally managed, and you stop their vomiting. (We're usually full of gratitude at that moment, as well.
Or a woman that I treated years ago who had lost her husband a week earlier. She was in a group therapy session for grieving widows and widowers. She had barely slept for a week, and was understandably inconsolable. Got orders for IV valium. The transport was less than 10 minutes. It was rewarding to see that woman sleeping peacefully, when I left. Sure it was a temporary fix, but it was one that she needed at that moment.
Okay....I'll put the violin and piano away. Seriously. It gets in your blood. It's hard to imagine doing anything else.
I agree.... i cant imagine not taking care of someone.... I understand what you mean by its in the blood
You do realize that you can do it for free and not get paid for it. Same for the doctors. Since that is never going to happen, health care costs are going to be high. No way around that.
The problem comes when i walk out of the ER with a band aid, some neosproine and a prescription.......and it costs me 6K
Considering medical bills are the number one cause of bankruptcy, "health care" isn't a "right" nor a "privilege".
Health Care is a necessity. I thought that would be obvious to those on the right who claim they are so "fiscally conservative". Guess that's not the case.
Well said and 100% on it!
Well, at least you're gentlemen about it; and from the business end, you know what you're talking about. You're not crude and blaming one group over another.
For my part, because I work in healthcare and about 3/4 my family work in healthcare, it's just in the blood. You will never get me to say that healthcare isn't a right. It's not being contrary...it's not that I don't face facts...it's that I cannot imagine NOT taking care of someone who needs my help. Most healthcare providers (key word most) will say the same thing. People who are in it at my level sure as hell don't do it for the money. There is the adrenaline rush of some of the more challenging patients. But then there are the kidney stone patients...the look of gratitude when their pain is finally managed, and you stop their vomiting. (We're usually full of gratitude at that moment, as well.
Or a woman that I treated years ago who had lost her husband a week earlier. She was in a group therapy session for grieving widows and widowers. She had barely slept for a week, and was understandably inconsolable. Got orders for IV valium. The transport was less than 10 minutes. It was rewarding to see that woman sleeping peacefully, when I left. Sure it was a temporary fix, but it was one that she needed at that moment.
Okay....I'll put the violin and piano away. Seriously. It gets in your blood. It's hard to imagine doing anything else.
I agree.... i cant imagine not taking care of someone.... I understand what you mean by its in the blood
You do realize that you can do it for free and not get paid for it. Same for the doctors. Since that is never going to happen, health care costs are going to be high. No way around that.
The problem comes when i walk out of the ER with a band aid, some neosproine and a prescription.......and it costs me 6K
by Healthcare Blue Book
The cost of an appendectomy, average, where I used to live.
$9,929
The bulk of the price is a 4-day admission...probably on a med/surg floor. Pretty minor surgery.
by Healthcare Blue Book
Coronary Artery Bypass Grafting
$56,227
If you think it's a wise choice to walk around without insurance, I hope that you have plenty of savings. This isn't counting the additional costs such as follow-up and so on that you will encounter.
If you're over 50 and you don't have health insurance (by choice), and you have a cardiac history in your family. You'd better start saving.
I just got a $70,000 bill because I had kidney stones. Can you explain why I should think a 10,000 bill for an appendectomy or a $60,000 bill for a bypass is something I should worry about? What we need to do is find a way to get the market involved and drive the cost down, not have the government come up a way to force other people to pay for it.
Yes. I had to enter my zip code to get those figures. Clearly, your zip code would bring up different numbers.
Damn....it just hit me. What the hell did they do to you? They must have given you one hell of a work up. For KIDNEY STONES? It's usually narcotics, anti-emetics, and waiting for it to pass. Something must have gone awry, or you live in a zip code where the streets are lined in gold. Jeez!
Considering medical bills are the number one cause of bankruptcy, "health care" isn't a "right" nor a "privilege".
Health Care is a necessity. I thought that would be obvious to those on the right who claim they are so "fiscally conservative". Guess that's not the case.
Medical bills are not the number one cause of bankruptcy. I just got a $70,000 medical bill and see no need to declare bankruptcy because the hospital does not intend to send a collection agency after me if I don't pay. In fact, they already knocked $20,000 off it, and we haven't even started to discuss why they charged me for meds I didn't take.
by Healthcare Blue Book
The cost of an appendectomy, average, where I used to live.
$9,929
The bulk of the price is a 4-day admission...probably on a med/surg floor. Pretty minor surgery.
by Healthcare Blue Book
Coronary Artery Bypass Grafting
$56,227
If you think it's a wise choice to walk around without insurance, I hope that you have plenty of savings. This isn't counting the additional costs such as follow-up and so on that you will encounter.
If you're over 50 and you don't have health insurance (by choice), and you have a cardiac history in your family. You'd better start saving.
The predominant insurance model we've been saddled with is not viable. It's fundamentally irrational to think that you can pay a low monthly fee and have all your health care expenses magically taken care of. This delusion is killing us.
The fact of the matter is, insurance is a bad deal. It's a gamble that, for most of us, doesn't pay off. The more you can pay out of pocket, and the less you must use costly insurance, the better. Not only is it a bad investment at a personal level, it's deeply destructive to the health care market.
To fix it, we've got to get it through our heads that we have to pay for health care, just like we pay for everything else. We need to remove all the legal infrastructure propping up the delusion and, if anything, encourage people to have less insurance. Only then will real market pressures come to bear, only then will providers have a genuine incentive to bring down prices and provide cost effective care.
db, I'm going to have to think about this for a while and see if I can get my head around it.
But, until I have turned it over a few times, I'll just say this from the insider's view. It's not our system of insurance that is killing us. What's really killing us is how unhealthy the American population is becoming, first with our population becoming top heavy with the elderly, and second with morbid obesity and concomitant diabetes rampant amongst the age group who should be the most healthy. These things don't resond to 'market pressures.'
You're not going to solve medical cost problems by asking government to do something.
Either of you two ladies like a chocolate?
Willfully spreading a killer disease and the death penalty as a consequence doesn't sound that far off does it?
The predominant insurance model we've been saddled with is not viable. It's fundamentally irrational to think that you can pay a low monthly fee and have all your health care expenses magically taken care of. This delusion is killing us.
The fact of the matter is, insurance is a bad deal. It's a gamble that, for most of us, doesn't pay off. The more you can pay out of pocket, and the less you must use costly insurance, the better. Not only is it a bad investment at a personal level, it's deeply destructive to the health care market.
To fix it, we've got to get it through our heads that we have to pay for health care, just like we pay for everything else. We need to remove all the legal infrastructure propping up the delusion and, if anything, encourage people to have less insurance. Only then will real market pressures come to bear, only then will providers have a genuine incentive to bring down prices and provide cost effective care.
db, I'm going to have to think about this for a while and see if I can get my head around it.
But, until I have turned it over a few times, I'll just say this from the insider's view. It's not our system of insurance that is killing us. What's really killing us is how unhealthy the American population is becoming, first with our population becoming top heavy with the elderly, and second with morbid obesity and concomitant diabetes rampant amongst the age group who should be the most healthy. These things don't resond to 'market pressures.'
Ever wonder what would happen if people actually had to pay for health care costs that came from being overweight?
I just got a $70,000 bill because I had kidney stones. Can you explain why I should think a 10,000 bill for an appendectomy or a $60,000 bill for a bypass is something I should worry about? What we need to do is find a way to get the market involved and drive the cost down, not have the government come up a way to force other people to pay for it.
Yes. I had to enter my zip code to get those figures. Clearly, your zip code would bring up different numbers.
Damn....it just hit me. What the hell did they do to you? They must have given you one hell of a work up. For KIDNEY STONES? It's usually narcotics, anti-emetics, and waiting for it to pass. Something must have gone awry, or you live in a zip code where the streets are lined in gold. Jeez!
I was in the hospital because the anto emetic they were giving me didn't work, I spent half the day puking. The bill was the total after about 5 days in the hospital passing the stones and another 3 days recovering from renal failure.
Well, at least you're gentlemen about it; and from the business end, you know what you're talking about. You're not crude and blaming one group over another.
For my part, because I work in healthcare and about 3/4 my family work in healthcare, it's just in the blood. You will never get me to say that healthcare isn't a right. It's not being contrary...it's not that I don't face facts...it's that I cannot imagine NOT taking care of someone who needs my help. Most healthcare providers (key word most) will say the same thing. People who are in it at my level sure as hell don't do it for the money. There is the adrenaline rush of some of the more challenging patients. But then there are the kidney stone patients...the look of gratitude when their pain is finally managed, and you stop their vomiting. (We're usually full of gratitude at that moment, as well.
Or a woman that I treated years ago who had lost her husband a week earlier. She was in a group therapy session for grieving widows and widowers. She had barely slept for a week, and was understandably inconsolable. Got orders for IV valium. The transport was less than 10 minutes. It was rewarding to see that woman sleeping peacefully, when I left. Sure it was a temporary fix, but it was one that she needed at that moment.
Okay....I'll put the violin and piano away. Seriously. It gets in your blood. It's hard to imagine doing anything else.
I agree.... i cant imagine not taking care of someone.... I understand what you mean by its in the blood
You do realize that you can do it for free and not get paid for it. Same for the doctors. Since that is never going to happen, health care costs are going to be high. No way around that.
The problem comes when i walk out of the ER with a band aid, some neosproine and a prescription.......and it costs me 6K
Well, it depends. If there was suturing involved? Did a cosmetic surgeon have to come in and do the suturing? Was there an EMS transport involved? ANY radiology=CHACHING! Lab$ drawn?
Some of it is defensive medicine. If you go to the ER with a headache (no, that's not ridiculous if you have migraines or complex migraines) you're going to get a CT scan, unless you adamantly refuse. Why? Too many brain hemmorhages were sent home over the years; most of them didn't survive for the ambulance transport back to the ER.
You go in with heartburn and you're over 40, you're probably going to get a 12-lead EKG. Again, too many people were sent home after a GI cocktail, and a script for tagamet, who were having a heart attack. It's not only that physicians and other providers don't want to get sued, we don't want to feel responsible for someone's death.
Many of you seem to have ideas on the business end, on how to deal with this problem. Have you tried submitting them to someone-like your representative or senator?
Considering medical bills are the number one cause of bankruptcy, "health care" isn't a "right" nor a "privilege".
Health Care is a necessity. I thought that would be obvious to those on the right who claim they are so "fiscally conservative". Guess that's not the case.
Medical bills are not the number one cause of bankruptcy. I just got a $70,000 medical bill and see no need to declare bankruptcy because the hospital does not intend to send a collection agency after me if I don't pay. In fact, they already knocked $20,000 off it, and we haven't even started to discuss why they charged me for meds I didn't take.
I don't remember...were you the one with kidney stones? Were you admitted? How many nights? That seems VERY steep.
