Health Care Is A Right Not a Privilege!

[dblack]

by Healthcare Blue Book

The cost of an appendectomy, average, where I used to live.

$9,929

The bulk of the price is a 4-day admission...probably on a med/surg floor. Pretty minor surgery.

by Healthcare Blue Book

Coronary Artery Bypass Grafting

$56,227


If you think it's a wise choice to walk around without insurance, I hope that you have plenty of savings. This isn't counting the additional costs such as follow-up and so on that you will encounter.

If you're over 50 and you don't have health insurance (by choice), and you have a cardiac history in your family. You'd better start saving.

The predominant insurance model we've been saddled with is not viable. It's fundamentally irrational to think that you can pay a low monthly fee and have all your health care expenses magically taken care of. This delusion is killing us.

The fact of the matter is, insurance is a bad deal. It's a gamble that, for most of us, doesn't pay off. The more you can pay out of pocket, and the less you must use costly insurance, the better. Not only is it a bad investment at a personal level, it's deeply destructive to the health care market.

To fix it, we've got to get it through our heads that we have to pay for health care, just like we pay for everything else. We need to remove all the legal infrastructure propping up the delusion and, if anything, encourage people to have less insurance. Only then will real market pressures come to bear, only then will providers have a genuine incentive to bring down prices and provide cost effective care.

 

[saveliberty]

These carmel ones are pretty good.

Chocolate with caramel and cyanide center? Sodium pentathol infusion?

You so funnnyyyyyyyyyy!

There is rarely responsibility when consequences don't exist mskafka. The discussion was getting over heated IMO. Just taking it down a notch. Maybe coconut is more your taste? I'm kind of partial to the toffee centers.

 

[Ropey]

I think the title needs to be "Should Health Care be a Right and Not a Privilege"

Since it is a privilege and not a right.

Health care is not a privilege. It is not something that is only available to a few. Health care is available to everyone in this country.

Everyone has the same access to the same health care by the same doctors and the same hospitals.... health care is not kept for the privileged few.

Everyone has the right to pay for the health care they want to receive.

Health care is a privilege for those US citizens who can not afford to pay for it. All others can.

 

[syrenn]

I think the title needs to be "Should Health Care be a Right and Not a Privilege"

Since it is a privilege and not a right.

Health care is not a privilege. It is not something that is only available to a few. Health care is available to everyone in this country.

Everyone has the same access to the same health care by the same doctors and the same hospitals.... health care is not kept for the privileged few.

Everyone has the right to pay for the health care they want to receive.

Health care is a privilege for those US citizens who can not afford to pay for it. All others can.

If you are receiving health care and not paying for it....its an entitlement.

 

[saveliberty]

Healthcare is an opportunity. Some choose to use it, others not. I'm very healthy, but my wife uses our plan frequently. I'm not getting younger, my time will come and the risk out weighs the short term savings. Besides insurance is about shared risk.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

by Healthcare Blue Book

The cost of an appendectomy, average, where I used to live.

$9,929

The bulk of the price is a 4-day admission...probably on a med/surg floor. Pretty minor surgery.

by Healthcare Blue Book

Coronary Artery Bypass Grafting

$56,227


If you think it's a wise choice to walk around without insurance, I hope that you have plenty of savings. This isn't counting the additional costs such as follow-up and so on that you will encounter.

If you're over 50 and you don't have health insurance (by choice), and you have a cardiac history in your family. You'd better start saving.

I just got a $70,000 bill because I had kidney stones. Can you explain why I should think a 10,000 bill for an appendectomy or a $60,000 bill for a bypass is something I should worry about? What we need to do is find a way to get the market involved and drive the cost down, not have the government come up a way to force other people to pay for it.

 

[Gadawg73]

by Healthcare Blue Book

The cost of an appendectomy, average, where I used to live.

$9,929

The bulk of the price is a 4-day admission...probably on a med/surg floor. Pretty minor surgery.

by Healthcare Blue Book

Coronary Artery Bypass Grafting

$56,227


If you think it's a wise choice to walk around without insurance, I hope that you have plenty of savings. This isn't counting the additional costs such as follow-up and so on that you will encounter.

If you're over 50 and you don't have health insurance (by choice), and you have a cardiac history in your family. You'd better start saving.

I just got a $70,000 bill because I had kidney stones. Can you explain why I should think a 10,000 bill for an appendectomy or a $60,000 bill for a bypass is something I should worry about? What we need to do is find a way to get the market involved and drive the cost down, not have the government come up a way to force other people to pay for it.

Right now government allows your health insurance premiums to be tax deductible for the entity that pays your health insurance premiums.
End that and employee provided health insurance where THEY, instead of you, is in charge of the plan and ONLY then will you see change.
40 years ago 85% of all group health insurance paid for by the employer the employee was in charge of paying the bill and then filing with their insurance.
TODAY, 85% of group health insurance paid for by the employer, NO EMPLOYEE IS INVOLVED in the decision making of if the bill is valid or not.
WAKE UP DUMB ASS AMERICANS.
Blank check health care is alive and well in American disguised as private health care with out the roof premiums.
It either ends or it IS OVER in less than 10 years. UNSUSTAINABLE.

 

[mskafka]

These carmel ones are pretty good.

Chocolate with caramel and cyanide center? Sodium pentathol infusion?

You so funnnyyyyyyyyyy!

There is rarely responsibility when consequences don't exist mskafka. The discussion was getting over heated IMO. Just taking it down a notch. Maybe coconut is more your taste? I'm kind of partial to the toffee centers.

Oh, I'm used to her verbal abuse. Just trying to imagine the background-a rebel flag and budweiser sign on the wall, or is it contemporary art?

 

[Gadawg73]

You folks need to get off your high horse and listen up and listen good.
I own 3 corporations and know first hand what is going on with the current American "health" care system we now have in place.
And I oppose the Obama plan outright so any claims that I am "left wing nut" or other BS is moot.
My fellow Americans, the current private group health care paid for as a benefit to employees is LONG broken. Why? Most Americans have taken advantage of it, over utlilized the benefits for everything imaginable and the claims paid have run up the health care for private industry from 6% of GNP a generation ago to 17% of GNP today.
Does anyone here have a brain?
Does anyone here understand capitalism?
Does anyone here admit that the private health care industry has exploited the group health care industry where the health insurance company AND NOT THE CONSUMER, is paying the tab always and that is THE ONLY REASON why health care costs have tripled as a % of GNP in a generation?
If not then you are a dumb ass. The current system is UNSUSTAINABLE.
Allowing insurance companies, AND NOT THE COMSUMER, to price the market HAS BEEN AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN the problem.
End tax exempt status for all group health insurance and only allow it for the individual policy holders.
The fraud is that being in a group policy "lowers costs" LOL, what a LIE that is! The industry under that model has tripled as a % of GNP IN A FUCKING GENERATION.

 

[Gadawg73]

by Healthcare Blue Book

The cost of an appendectomy, average, where I used to live.

$9,929

The bulk of the price is a 4-day admission...probably on a med/surg floor. Pretty minor surgery.

by Healthcare Blue Book

Coronary Artery Bypass Grafting

$56,227


If you think it's a wise choice to walk around without insurance, I hope that you have plenty of savings. This isn't counting the additional costs such as follow-up and so on that you will encounter.

If you're over 50 and you don't have health insurance (by choice), and you have a cardiac history in your family. You'd better start saving.

I just got a $70,000 bill because I had kidney stones. Can you explain why I should think a 10,000 bill for an appendectomy or a $60,000 bill for a bypass is something I should worry about? What we need to do is find a way to get the market involved and drive the cost down, not have the government come up a way to force other people to pay for it.

Great Americans like you are informed and never hesitate to speak your mind without a political ideolgy behind it on this issue.
You sir, I respect greatly as the health care issue is the biggest financial issue we face as aging Americans.

 

[rdean]

Considering medical bills are the number one cause of bankruptcy, "health care" isn't a "right" nor a "privilege".

Health Care is a necessity. I thought that would be obvious to those on the right who claim they are so "fiscally conservative". Guess that's not the case.

 

[saveliberty]

I wonder if a kidney transplant would have been cheaper? Hope you passed a four carat flawless diamond.

Increasing premiums have driven my boss to offer health insurance with a large deductable and copay. Since you have to pay for some big up front costs, it gives people pause before running to the doctor.

 

[dblack]

Considering medical bills are the number one cause of bankruptcy, "health care" isn't a "right" nor a "privilege".

Health Care is a necessity. I thought that would be obvious to those on the right who claim they are so "fiscally conservative". Guess that's not the case.

So, should government always be responsible for the number one cause of bankruptcy?

What about number two?

 

[mskafka]

by Healthcare Blue Book

The cost of an appendectomy, average, where I used to live.

$9,929

The bulk of the price is a 4-day admission...probably on a med/surg floor. Pretty minor surgery.

by Healthcare Blue Book

Coronary Artery Bypass Grafting

$56,227


If you think it's a wise choice to walk around without insurance, I hope that you have plenty of savings. This isn't counting the additional costs such as follow-up and so on that you will encounter.

If you're over 50 and you don't have health insurance (by choice), and you have a cardiac history in your family. You'd better start saving.

I just got a $70,000 bill because I had kidney stones. Can you explain why I should think a 10,000 bill for an appendectomy or a $60,000 bill for a bypass is something I should worry about? What we need to do is find a way to get the market involved and drive the cost down, not have the government come up a way to force other people to pay for it.

Yes. I had to enter my zip code to get those figures. Clearly, your zip code would bring up different numbers.

Damn....it just hit me. What the hell did they do to you? They must have given you one hell of a work up. For KIDNEY STONES? It's usually narcotics, anti-emetics, and waiting for it to pass. Something must have gone awry, or you live in a zip code where the streets are lined in gold. Jeez!

 

[Gadawg73]

by Healthcare Blue Book

The cost of an appendectomy, average, where I used to live.

$9,929

The bulk of the price is a 4-day admission...probably on a med/surg floor. Pretty minor surgery.

by Healthcare Blue Book

Coronary Artery Bypass Grafting

$56,227


If you think it's a wise choice to walk around without insurance, I hope that you have plenty of savings. This isn't counting the additional costs such as follow-up and so on that you will encounter.

If you're over 50 and you don't have health insurance (by choice), and you have a cardiac history in your family. You'd better start saving.

The predominant insurance model we've been saddled with is not viable. It's fundamentally irrational to think that you can pay a low monthly fee and have all your health care expenses magically taken care of. This delusion is killing us.

The fact of the matter is, insurance is a bad deal. It's a gamble that, for most of us, doesn't pay off. The more you can pay out of pocket, and the less you must use costly insurance, the better. Not only is it a bad investment at a personal level, it's deeply destructive to the health care market.

To fix it, we've got to get it through our heads that we have to pay for health care, just like we pay for everything else. We need to remove all the legal infrastructure propping up the delusion and, if anything, encourage people to have less insurance. Only then will real market pressures come to bear, only then will providers have a genuine incentive to bring down prices and provide cost effective care.

Well said and 100% on it!

 

[saveliberty]

Considering medical bills are the number one cause of bankruptcy, "health care" isn't a "right" nor a "privilege".

Health Care is a necessity. I thought that would be obvious to those on the right who claim they are so "fiscally conservative". Guess that's not the case.

So why don't Americans take care of their health?

Perhaps you would prefer the whole country go bankrupt from subsidizing the costs?

Exercising your right to live your life as you see fit, does not entitle you to my property or modifications to it for your benefit.

 

[mskafka]

by Healthcare Blue Book

The cost of an appendectomy, average, where I used to live.

$9,929

The bulk of the price is a 4-day admission...probably on a med/surg floor. Pretty minor surgery.

by Healthcare Blue Book

Coronary Artery Bypass Grafting

$56,227


If you think it's a wise choice to walk around without insurance, I hope that you have plenty of savings. This isn't counting the additional costs such as follow-up and so on that you will encounter.

If you're over 50 and you don't have health insurance (by choice), and you have a cardiac history in your family. You'd better start saving.

The predominant insurance model we've been saddled with is not viable. It's fundamentally irrational to think that you can pay a low monthly fee and have all your health care expenses magically taken care of. This delusion is killing us.

The fact of the matter is, insurance is a bad deal. It's a gamble that, for most of us, doesn't pay off. The more you can pay out of pocket, and the less you must use costly insurance, the better. Not only is it a bad investment at a personal level, it's deeply destructive to the health care market.

To fix it, we've got to get it through our heads that we have to pay for health care, just like we pay for everything else. We need to remove all the legal infrastructure propping up the delusion and, if anything, encourage people to have less insurance. Only then will real market pressures come to bear, only then will providers have a genuine incentive to bring down prices and provide cost effective care.

Well said and 100% on it!

Well, at least you're gentlemen about it; and from the business end, you know what you're talking about. You're not crude and blaming one group over another.

For my part, because I work in healthcare and about 3/4 my family work in healthcare, it's just in the blood. You will never get me to say that healthcare isn't a right. It's not being contrary...it's not that I don't face facts...it's that I cannot imagine NOT taking care of someone who needs my help. Most healthcare providers (key word most) will say the same thing. People who are in it at my level sure as hell don't do it for the money. There is the adrenaline rush of some of the more challenging patients. But then there are the kidney stone patients...the look of gratitude when their pain is finally managed, and you stop their vomiting. (We're usually full of gratitude at that moment, as well. )

Or a woman that I treated years ago who had lost her husband a week earlier. She was in a group therapy session for grieving widows and widowers. She had barely slept for a week, and was understandably inconsolable. Got orders for IV valium. The transport was less than 10 minutes. It was rewarding to see that woman sleeping peacefully, when I left. Sure it was a temporary fix, but it was one that she needed at that moment.

Okay....I'll put the violin and piano away. Seriously. It gets in your blood. It's hard to imagine doing anything else.

 

[Sunshine]

by Healthcare Blue Book

The cost of an appendectomy, average, where I used to live.

$9,929

The bulk of the price is a 4-day admission...probably on a med/surg floor. Pretty minor surgery.

by Healthcare Blue Book

Coronary Artery Bypass Grafting

$56,227


If you think it's a wise choice to walk around without insurance, I hope that you have plenty of savings. This isn't counting the additional costs such as follow-up and so on that you will encounter.

If you're over 50 and you don't have health insurance (by choice), and you have a cardiac history in your family. You'd better start saving.

The predominant insurance model we've been saddled with is not viable. It's fundamentally irrational to think that you can pay a low monthly fee and have all your health care expenses magically taken care of. This delusion is killing us.

The fact of the matter is, insurance is a bad deal. It's a gamble that, for most of us, doesn't pay off. The more you can pay out of pocket, and the less you must use costly insurance, the better. Not only is it a bad investment at a personal level, it's deeply destructive to the health care market.

To fix it, we've got to get it through our heads that we have to pay for health care, just like we pay for everything else. We need to remove all the legal infrastructure propping up the delusion and, if anything, encourage people to have less insurance. Only then will real market pressures come to bear, only then will providers have a genuine incentive to bring down prices and provide cost effective care.

db, I'm going to have to think about this for a while and see if I can get my head around it.

But, until I have turned it over a few times, I'll just say this from the insider's view. It's not our system of insurance that is killing us. What's really killing us is how unhealthy the American population is becoming, first with our population becoming top heavy with the elderly, and second with morbid obesity and concomitant diabetes rampant amongst the age group who should be the most healthy. These things don't resond to 'market pressures.'

 

[mskafka]

by Healthcare Blue Book

The cost of an appendectomy, average, where I used to live.

$9,929

The bulk of the price is a 4-day admission...probably on a med/surg floor. Pretty minor surgery.

by Healthcare Blue Book

Coronary Artery Bypass Grafting

$56,227


If you think it's a wise choice to walk around without insurance, I hope that you have plenty of savings. This isn't counting the additional costs such as follow-up and so on that you will encounter.

If you're over 50 and you don't have health insurance (by choice), and you have a cardiac history in your family. You'd better start saving.

The predominant insurance model we've been saddled with is not viable. It's fundamentally irrational to think that you can pay a low monthly fee and have all your health care expenses magically taken care of. This delusion is killing us.

The fact of the matter is, insurance is a bad deal. It's a gamble that, for most of us, doesn't pay off. The more you can pay out of pocket, and the less you must use costly insurance, the better. Not only is it a bad investment at a personal level, it's deeply destructive to the health care market.

To fix it, we've got to get it through our heads that we have to pay for health care, just like we pay for everything else. We need to remove all the legal infrastructure propping up the delusion and, if anything, encourage people to have less insurance. Only then will real market pressures come to bear, only then will providers have a genuine incentive to bring down prices and provide cost effective care.

db, I'm going to have to think about this for a while and see if I can get my head around it.

But, until I have turned it over a few times, I'll just say this from the insider's view. It's not our system of insurance that is killing us. What's really killing us is how unhealthy the American population is becoming, first with our population becoming top heavy with the elderly, and second with morbid obesity and concomitant diabetes rampant amongst the age group who should be the most healthy. These things don't resond to 'market pressures.'

Now this is DEFINITELY someone who knows. In 17 years, it seems that people have doubled in size. This is a HUGE part of the costs. That lovely stuff called high fructose corn syrup. I don't buy into the BS that it's "harmless".

 

[rdean]

Considering medical bills are the number one cause of bankruptcy, "health care" isn't a "right" nor a "privilege".

Health Care is a necessity. I thought that would be obvious to those on the right who claim they are so "fiscally conservative". Guess that's not the case.

So, should government always be responsible for the number one cause of bankruptcy?

What about number two?

Number two is what Republicans shower on the US.

Obviously, when people go bankrupt over medical bills, it's the people who suffer. The same people who get taxed to fund the government. They end up "stuck" with the bill.

Right wingers have this bizarre idea that our government is some kind of separate cabal that "controls" the US. It's part of their right wing brainwashing.