Health Care Is A Right Not a Privilege!

[M14 Shooter]

Call it what you like, but that's the way the country has worked. Check the history of America's social programs, there is a pattern; might start with Social Security.
I'm not sure tyranny works as well as socialism and communism, but it's still a good scare word.

You are anti-American. Our democracy was not designed to be theft!!


"When the people find that they can vote themselves money,( stolen by force of arms) that will herald the end of the republic."
-Benjamin Franklin

Even calling someone anti-American may not work if the American people decide they want
a program. All this was done in 1936, with the Social Security program. SS was anti-American, communistic, socialistic and not what our founding fathers wanted...but we have it.
Actually establishing a democracy scared the founders for the very reason Franklin says, but the big question is: as we became more democratic why haven't the people voted themselves scads of money. In fact, the people seem very content to let corporations and others use their money to prevent that from happening.

Hm.. have you seen how much the federal government spends on entitlements?
Close to 10% of the GDP, isn't it?

 

[regent]

You are anti-American. Our democracy was not designed to be theft!!


"When the people find that they can vote themselves money,( stolen by force of arms) that will herald the end of the republic."
-Benjamin Franklin

Even calling someone anti-American may not work if the American people decide they want
a program. All this was done in 1936, with the Social Security program. SS was anti-American, communistic, socialistic and not what our founding fathers wanted...but we have it.
Actually establishing a democracy scared the founders for the very reason Franklin says, but the big question is: as we became more democratic why haven't the people voted themselves scads of money. In fact, the people seem very content to let corporations and others use their money to prevent that from happening.

Hm.. have you seen how much the federal government spends on entitlements?
Close to 10% of the GDP, isn't it?

For many Americans that is not scary. What is scary for some, is to be sick and watch the hospitals and doctors use up their life savings. Then too there might also be a little resentment on watching their country go to war that accomplishes nothing but creates scads of tears and debts for the next 80 years.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

You are anti-American. Our democracy was not designed to be theft!!


"When the people find that they can vote themselves money,( stolen by force of arms) that will herald the end of the republic."
-Benjamin Franklin

Even calling someone anti-American may not work if the American people decide they want
a program. All this was done in 1936, with the Social Security program. SS was anti-American, communistic, socialistic and not what our founding fathers wanted...but we have it.
Actually establishing a democracy scared the founders for the very reason Franklin says, but the big question is: as we became more democratic why haven't the people voted themselves scads of money. In fact, the people seem very content to let corporations and others use their money to prevent that from happening.

Hm.. have you seen how much the federal government spends on entitlements?
Close to 10% of the GDP, isn't it?

on all levels govt spends about 40% of GDP so welfare programs and entitlements are probably 25% of GDP.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

As I say, if and when the American people decide they want health care, Congress will vote it in, the president will sign it, and the Court will say it's Constitutional. It may not happen overnite but it will happen--if and when the people decide they want it.

you mean if and when a tyrannical majority decides to subvert our democracy and steal it with guns, don't you?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Even calling someone anti-American may not work if the American people decide they want
a program. All this was done in 1936, with the Social Security program. SS was anti-American, communistic, socialistic and not what our founding fathers wanted...but we have it.
Actually establishing a democracy scared the founders for the very reason Franklin says, but the big question is: as we became more democratic why haven't the people voted themselves scads of money. In fact, the people seem very content to let corporations and others use their money to prevent that from happening.

Hm.. have you seen how much the federal government spends on entitlements?
Close to 10% of the GDP, isn't it?

For many Americans that is not scary.

Who cares? You asked about the proplr voting themselves scads of money. Clearly they have.

What is scary for some, is to be sick and watch the hospitals and doctors use up their life savings.

You have the right to whatever health care you can buy.
Why?
Because people should not have to prove goods and services w/o compenation, and no one is responsible for you other than you.

 

[Andylusion]

Even calling someone anti-American may not work if the American people decide they want
a program. All this was done in 1936, with the Social Security program. SS was anti-American, communistic, socialistic and not what our founding fathers wanted...but we have it.
Actually establishing a democracy scared the founders for the very reason Franklin says, but the big question is: as we became more democratic why haven't the people voted themselves scads of money. In fact, the people seem very content to let corporations and others use their money to prevent that from happening.

Hm.. have you seen how much the federal government spends on entitlements?
Close to 10% of the GDP, isn't it?

For many Americans that is not scary. What is scary for some, is to be sick and watch the hospitals and doctors use up their life savings. Then too there might also be a little resentment on watching their country go to war that accomplishes nothing but creates scads of tears and debts for the next 80 years.

I don't understand that. If I get a service, and the service is good, I don't have a problem paying for it. It's called being ethical. You know, where people who do something good, get compensated for it.

Why do you think you deserve good things, and shouldn't have to pay for it?

But beyond that, the alternative is far worse. The alternative is you don't pay for it, and you don't get it. Have you missed the whole deal with the VA? That's is exactly the kind of "Free care" government run health care gives you.

Why is it surprising that the VA has the same problems that every single government run health care system in the world does?

People in Canada waiting THREE YEARS to get simple surgery so they can walk.

Never happens in the US, because you pay for it, you get it. In Canada you wait until the end of time, and hopefully you don't die before you make it to the top of the list.

That's better in your world?

See my view is, I can work, and earn back money. I can work and earn back my life. Saving a buck, and ending up dead, to me, is not a good trade.

It's amazing really, because you people on the left are always the ones talking about how life isn't made up of money. Living the good life, doesn't come with a price tag. Right?

Yet here you are saying that risking death, and decades on a waiting list, is less important than saving a buck!

AND ON TOP OF THAT...... isn't it the left that says we need the death tax to confiscate everyone's inheritance??!

Are not the left always complaining that everyone that has money, inherits it, so we need a 40% tax on all inheritance, the very inheritance you people on the left claim we need government health care to protect?

Are you "protecting" it just so you can steal it from the dead later?

Hypocritical scum. That's all these people are. Just plain and simple greedy hypocrites.

 

[regent]

That you pay for services is great, keep up the good work, and we're proud of you. Just don't don't get an illness that uses up all your savings and leaves you unable to work. The evidence from the VA indicates that more vets want to be admitted to the VA health care programs, too many for their budget. But none of that is my argument, I'm saying that if the American people want a health care program, America will have health care program--maybe during your lifetime.

 

[Andylusion]

That you pay for services is great, keep up the good work, and we're proud of you. Just don't don't get an illness that uses up all your savings and leaves you unable to work. The evidence from the VA indicates that more vets want to be admitted to the VA health care programs, too many for their budget. But none of that is my argument, I'm saying that if the American people want a health care program, America will have health care program--maybe during your lifetime.

The fact that more people want free health care, doesn't mean anything.

If you are so stupid, that you offer me a free car for as long as I live, I'll take a free car from you until you go bankrupt.

I will even think that you are dumb as rock, all during the time I'm taking a free car from you.

Yeah more people want free care. More people want free food, free homes, free water, free phones, free everything.

That doesn't change the natural outcome of the system, which is that you are denied care. Government doesn't have unlimited funds. Thus, the VA, like all government run health care systems in the world, has massive waiting lists. That's how that works.

 

[Gadawg73]

Government now pays for almost 80% OF ALL prescription DOPE in the US.

Where is the cry from all the wannahbe "conservatives" against that?
They are too busy fighting the moral crusade.
They love their DOPE.

 

[M14 Shooter]

That you pay for services is great, keep up the good work, and we're proud of you. Just don't don't get an illness that uses up all your savings and leaves you unable to work.

Why do you believe that you have thw right to have other people provide you with goods and services that you do not then have ti pay for?

 

[Gadawg73]

The US healthcare sector is a purely paper industry that is 14 % of the US economy. Because of its size, the hedge fund managers, using the free cash of 401k/IRA contributions, keep pumping it bigger and bigger forever.

The US healthcare sector is only one example of the larger US economy, that is generally moving away from a supply-demand based buyer-provider pricing, to a 3rd party pricing in all industries.

When a 3rd party defines cash flow, such as by insurance policies or by lending, the prices become unknown until invoices are generated. Then, the 3rd party defers most of that payment down to the buyer who had no influence in the pricing.

So, the US healthcare sector will continue to drive companies out of business and individuals into bankruptcy, in ever larger numbers and without any limit.

Health care is 17% of the economy and growing at an unsustainable rate.
Government and group health care employer paid for is the problem.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Hm.. have you seen how much the federal government spends on entitlements?
Close to 10% of the GDP, isn't it?

For many Americans that is not scary. What is scary for some, is to be sick and watch the hospitals and doctors use up their life savings. Then too there might also be a little resentment on watching their country go to war that accomplishes nothing but creates scads of tears and debts for the next 80 years.

I don't understand that. If I get a service, and the service is good, I don't have a problem paying for it. It's called being ethical. You know, where people who do something good, get compensated for it.

Why do you think you deserve good things, and shouldn't have to pay for it?

But beyond that, the alternative is far worse. The alternative is you don't pay for it, and you don't get it. Have you missed the whole deal with the VA? That's is exactly the kind of "Free care" government run health care gives you.

Why is it surprising that the VA has the same problems that every single government run health care system in the world does?

People in Canada waiting THREE YEARS to get simple surgery so they can walk.

Never happens in the US, because you pay for it, you get it. In Canada you wait until the end of time, and hopefully you don't die before you make it to the top of the list.

That's better in your world?

See my view is, I can work, and earn back money. I can work and earn back my life. Saving a buck, and ending up dead, to me, is not a good trade.

It's amazing really, because you people on the left are always the ones talking about how life isn't made up of money. Living the good life, doesn't come with a price tag. Right?

Yet here you are saying that risking death, and decades on a waiting list, is less important than saving a buck!

AND ON TOP OF THAT...... isn't it the left that says we need the death tax to confiscate everyone's inheritance??!

Are not the left always complaining that everyone that has money, inherits it, so we need a 40% tax on all inheritance, the very inheritance you people on the left claim we need government health care to protect?

Are you "protecting" it just so you can steal it from the dead later?

Hypocritical scum. That's all these people are. Just plain and simple greedy hypocrites.

What the hell do people HAVE a life savings for, if not to be able to cover exactly those sorts of emergency situations? They used to call it "saving for a rainy day", and when you develop a catastrophic illness, that would be pretty damned rainy.

But nowadays, people are so frigging spoiled, they think it's all about them retiring early to move to Aruba, and if bad times come, someone else should foot the bill so that they don't have to give up their luxury plans.

 

[Cecilie1200]

That you pay for services is great, keep up the good work, and we're proud of you. Just don't don't get an illness that uses up all your savings and leaves you unable to work. The evidence from the VA indicates that more vets want to be admitted to the VA health care programs, too many for their budget. But none of that is my argument, I'm saying that if the American people want a health care program, America will have health care program--maybe during your lifetime.

Unable to work? Bullshit. Unless you're paralyzed from the neck down or institutionalized in a wraparound jacket, I don't buy that "unable to work" garbage. Oh, you may not be able to do the job you WANT to do, but there are still ALWAYS jobs out there that can be done.

 

[Vermonter]

Where is there a right to education anywhere in Constitution from K-12?

The tenth Amendment.

nice try

It's the facts. Nowhere in the US Constitution is the word "education" found. But it is in a number of State Constitutions. So the US Constitution defers to the states in this matter.

 

[regent]

That you pay for services is great, keep up the good work, and we're proud of you. Just don't don't get an illness that uses up all your savings and leaves you unable to work.

Why do you believe that you have thw right to have other people provide you with goods and services that you do not then have ti pay for?

I don't have the right, but the people of the United States have the right. They have the right to demand the government provide certain services, highways, dams, national defense, care for the elderly and so on. And who pays for those services the people demand, the people.
As for the personal thing, I have ample medical care thank you, probably more than I need at the present, but if we the people want health care I accept that, and we the people will pay for it.

 

[Cecilie1200]

That you pay for services is great, keep up the good work, and we're proud of you. Just don't don't get an illness that uses up all your savings and leaves you unable to work.

Why do you believe that you have thw right to have other people provide you with goods and services that you do not then have ti pay for?

I don't have the right, but the people of the United States have the right. They have the right to demand the government provide certain services, highways, dams, national defense, care for the elderly and so on. And who pays for those services the people demand, the people.
As for the personal thing, I have ample medical care thank you, probably more than I need at the present, but if we the people want health care I accept that, and we the people will pay for it.

Like most of the wannabe dictators on the left, you confuse having the POWER to take from others against their will - aka "steal" - with having a RIGHT to do so. The people of the United States used to be moral and decent, and understand that just because they COULD do something didn't mean they SHOULD, or that it was right and moral to do so. Nowadays, too many people in this country are like you: amoral, spoiled, ignorant children who think the vast power of the government exists to pamper and coddle them and remove all difficulty from their lives.

Google "Billy Mumy" and "Twilight Zone". That's what you and your ilk in a voting booth remind me of.

 

[froggy]

If we keep letting the government make choices for us we deserve what we get. say no to obamacare. get up a petition and have it repealed

 

[Andylusion]

Government now pays for almost 80% OF ALL prescription DOPE in the US.

Where is the cry from all the wannahbe "conservatives" against that?
They are too busy fighting the moral crusade.
They love their DOPE.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Me and many conservatives like me, opposed that for the last decade.

What do you mean we're too busy? We've been here opposing it the entire time.

 

[Andylusion]

That you pay for services is great, keep up the good work, and we're proud of you. Just don't don't get an illness that uses up all your savings and leaves you unable to work. The evidence from the VA indicates that more vets want to be admitted to the VA health care programs, too many for their budget. But none of that is my argument, I'm saying that if the American people want a health care program, America will have health care program--maybe during your lifetime.

Unable to work? Bullshit. Unless you're paralyzed from the neck down or institutionalized in a wraparound jacket, I don't buy that "unable to work" garbage. Oh, you may not be able to do the job you WANT to do, but there are still ALWAYS jobs out there that can be done.

It really is a matter of the spoiled brat syndrome manifesting itself in elder years.

In generations past, that was never the case. If you worked as a farmer, you were working the farm, cleaning stalls, pitching hay, and tilling the ground up until your 70s. That was normal. That was how life was.

Harland Sanders didn't even start Kentucky Fried Chicken, until age 62, and he worked his butt off for years until 1972 when he sold it for $2 Million dollars.

But no no, we're 60 years old and that entitles us to sit on our ass, and have everyone else pay for everything we have.

 

[Andylusion]

That you pay for services is great, keep up the good work, and we're proud of you. Just don't don't get an illness that uses up all your savings and leaves you unable to work.

Why do you believe that you have thw right to have other people provide you with goods and services that you do not then have ti pay for?

I don't have the right, but the people of the United States have the right. They have the right to demand the government provide certain services, highways, dams, national defense, care for the elderly and so on. And who pays for those services the people demand, the people.
As for the personal thing, I have ample medical care thank you, probably more than I need at the present, but if we the people want health care I accept that, and we the people will pay for it.

No, actually they don't.

Do you know what the "general welfare" clause is? The General Welfare clause, says that laws and legislation, are constitutionally required to be for the "General Welfare".

In other words, if the government was to actually follow the Constitution as it is written, they would not be allowed to make laws or policies that benefit one group of citizens, at the expense of other citizens.

Providing for the defense of the nation, benefits absolutely everyone equally. Enforcing justice, and punishing criminals, benefits everyone equally.

Providing money stolen from *ME* the working class, to pay for the luxury and easy living of the retired class, is illegal, and unconstitutional for the Federal government to do.

Now of course the states are allowed to do that, because all rights are reserved for the state. But we all know that if the Federal government didn't enforce such systems country wide, there would be a flood of working people moving from states with those laws, to states without them.

Which is why liberals have to push unconstitutional tyranny on the entire country from the Federal level.

No, the citizens do not have the right to confiscate wages from labor, to give out to those who don't work. It's wrong. It's immoral, and someday like Greece, it will fail. All the labor and employers left Greece, and their retired people are still demanding more give outs from the government.