Health Care Is A Right Not a Privilege!

[Gadawg73]

Of course, I also agree with you. Health is great gift of God. We should also take care of our health. Everyone wants to have a good health. That does not make it’s a right. It is only legal modification can make it so..

Tell that to my neighbor who is hard core right wing religious conservative Republican. Best neighbors and folks you could ever find.
He is 350 lbs. + and his wife even bigger it appears.
They oppose free health care for everyone else but believe it is THEIR RIGHT to be fat, do nothing and draw social security disability because "that is my right to eat what I want to and be fat".

3rd party payee as in insurance company or government IS the problem.
Go back to where you, I and everyone is responsible FOR THEIR OWN health care and watch prices go down 50% immediately.
Something is bad wrong when the going rate for a blood test the doctor takes over and pays $6.50 for at the lab is billed at $76.80 to the patient>
3rd parties paying the tab instead of the consumer be it insurance or government HAS TO END.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Go back to where you, I and everyone is responsible FOR THEIR OWN health care and watch prices go down 50% immediately.

Yes great point. If people were shopping carefully with their own money and suppliers were forced to compete on basis of price and quality my estimate is price would be 20% of what it now and average life expectancy would be up by 20 years.

 

[Listening]

Go back to where you, I and everyone is responsible FOR THEIR OWN health care and watch prices go down 50% immediately.

Yes great point. If people were shopping carefully with their own money and suppliers were forced to compete on basis of price and quality my estimate is price would be 20% of what it now and average life expectancy would be up by 20 years.

If you also made it a little more painful for granny to go visit her doctor because she's lonely (which happens an awful lot) and had an honest discussion about end of life care (30% of all care a person consumes is in the last year of life)....you might find things to be less costly.

 

[saveliberty]

If it is a right, it doesn't look like Obamacare is the answer. The appelate court just rejected government subsidies to help pay for it.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Go back to where you, I and everyone is responsible FOR THEIR OWN health care and watch prices go down 50% immediately.

Yes great point. If people were shopping carefully with their own money and suppliers were forced to compete on basis of price and quality my estimate is price would be 20% of what it now and average life expectancy would be up by 20 years.

If you also made it a little more painful for granny to go visit her doctor because she's lonely (which happens an awful lot) and had an honest discussion about end of life care (30% of all care a person consumes is in the last year of life)....you might find things to be less costly.

if we had a free market she might talk about end of life care with a nurse or nurses assistent or degreed sociologist for $15 an hour ratrher than a socialist doctor for $300/hour.

 

[regent]

It's all these new fangled tests and procedures that are using up the medical dollars. I say go back to the days of Jefferson, maybe a little bleeding and advice to stay off your feet for a day or two and bingo, problem solved.

 

[Andylusion]

It's all these new fangled tests and procedures that are using up the medical dollars. I say go back to the days of Jefferson, maybe a little bleeding and advice to stay off your feet for a day or two and bingo, problem solved.

Well, that is a part of the problem. Humor or not, part of the issue is that we have new better treatments than ever before, but of course new technology, and new treatments, cost more.

This is part of the reason why newer treatments, newer medications, and newer technologies are simply not available in a socialized systems. That's part of how they keep costs down.

For example, so of the procedures and medications, very common in the US, are not available at all in France.

But it's cheaper! Well yeah, because they wait until something is 5 to 10 years old, and then negotiate a lower price. They are not negotiating a lower price for a new drug, or new treatment. They are negotiating a lower price on something old.

It would be like Government saying they were going to buy everyone a new car, and you show up at the dealer lot, and find it filled with cars from 2004.

The difference is, we know about it. Over in France, the doctors are not allowed by law, to tell patients about treatments the government doesn't cover.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Over in France, the doctors are not allowed by law, to tell patients about treatments the government doesn't cover.

do you have proof of what you say above? Id love to see it.


A shock study has revealed more than half of cancer patients in France, Spain, Germany and Italy are treated with drugs invented since 1985.

But in the UK, only 40 per cent of patients receive them.

 

[anotherlife]

Go back to where you, I and everyone is responsible FOR THEIR OWN health care and watch prices go down 50% immediately.

Yes great point. If people were shopping carefully with their own money and suppliers were forced to compete on basis of price and quality my estimate is price would be 20% of what it now and average life expectancy would be up by 20 years.

If you also made it a little more painful for granny to go visit her doctor because she's lonely (which happens an awful lot) and had an honest discussion about end of life care (30% of all care a person consumes is in the last year of life)....you might find things to be less costly.

Yes, if the buyer of healthcare services was put back into the picture, prices would normalize. Too bad, the semi-communist mass base of the ruling democrat party will never allow that to happen, neither will the insurance cartell backed republican congressional minority. HEHEHE

My American friends, you are just beginning the dance, how well you all have been punked out of your own cash and with you all cheering along to get screwed some more. WHEHEHEHEHE

 

[Political Junky]

It's all these new fangled tests and procedures that are using up the medical dollars. I say go back to the days of Jefferson, maybe a little bleeding and advice to stay off your feet for a day or two and bingo, problem solved.

Well, that is a part of the problem. Humor or not, part of the issue is that we have new better treatments than ever before, but of course new technology, and new treatments, cost more.

This is part of the reason why newer treatments, newer medications, and newer technologies are simply not available in a socialized systems. That's part of how they keep costs down.

For example, so of the procedures and medications, very common in the US, are not available at all in France.

But it's cheaper! Well yeah, because they wait until something is 5 to 10 years old, and then negotiate a lower price. They are not negotiating a lower price for a new drug, or new treatment. They are negotiating a lower price on something old.

It would be like Government saying they were going to buy everyone a new car, and you show up at the dealer lot, and find it filled with cars from 2004.

The difference is, we know about it. Over in France, the doctors are not allowed by law, to tell patients about treatments the government doesn't cover.

I notice you left no link to that BS about France.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

It's all these new fangled tests and procedures that are using up the medical dollars. I say go back to the days of Jefferson, maybe a little bleeding and advice to stay off your feet for a day or two and bingo, problem solved.

Well, that is a part of the problem. Humor or not, part of the issue is that we have new better treatments than ever before, but of course new technology, and new treatments, cost more.

This is part of the reason why newer treatments, newer medications, and newer technologies are simply not available in a socialized systems. That's part of how they keep costs down.

For example, so of the procedures and medications, very common in the US, are not available at all in France.

But it's cheaper! Well yeah, because they wait until something is 5 to 10 years old, and then negotiate a lower price. They are not negotiating a lower price for a new drug, or new treatment. They are negotiating a lower price on something old.

It would be like Government saying they were going to buy everyone a new car, and you show up at the dealer lot, and find it filled with cars from 2004.

The difference is, we know about it. Over in France, the doctors are not allowed by law, to tell patients about treatments the government doesn't cover.

I notice you left no link to that BS about France.

yes but in general he's right. Europe has worse care because:

1) they are poorer and can afford less. France has the income of Arkansas, for example. THey buy less and they buy older drugs and treatments which are cheaper and less effective.

2) being more socialist they invent far less. USA hold 80% of all recent health care patents for example

3) in Europe most of those who can afford to buy care elect to do so because competitive free market care is naturally superior to monopolistic inefficient socialist care.

 

[Bush92]

Health Care Is A Right Not a Privilege!

Let's be clear. Our health care system is disintegrating. Today, 46 million people have no health insurance and even more are underinsured with high deductibles and co-payments. At a time when 60 million people, including many with insurance, do not have access to a medical home, more than 18,000 Americans die every year from preventable illnesses because they do not get to the doctor when they should. This is six times the number who died at the tragedy of 9/11 - but this occurs every year.

In the midst of this horrendous lack of coverage, the U.S. spends far more per capita on health care than any other nation - and health care costs continue to soar. At $2.4 trillion dollars, and 18 percent of our GDP, the skyrocketing cost of health care in this country is unsustainable both from a personal and macro-economic perspective.

Sen. Bernie Sanders: Health Care Is a Right, Not a Privilege

Where does it say this on your birth certificate?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Health Care Is A Right Not a Privilege!

Let's be clear. Our health care system is disintegrating. Today, 46 million people have no health insurance and even more are underinsured with high deductibles and co-payments. At a time when 60 million people, including many with insurance, do not have access to a medical home, more than 18,000 Americans die every year from preventable illnesses because they do not get to the doctor when they should. This is six times the number who died at the tragedy of 9/11 - but this occurs every year.

In the midst of this horrendous lack of coverage, the U.S. spends far more per capita on health care than any other nation - and health care costs continue to soar. At $2.4 trillion dollars, and 18 percent of our GDP, the skyrocketing cost of health care in this country is unsustainable both from a personal and macro-economic perspective.

Sen. Bernie Sanders: Health Care Is a Right, Not a Privilege

Where does it say this on your birth certificate?

of course if we switched to capitalism the cost would be 20% of what it is now and life expectancy would be increased by 20 years.

 

[Political Junky]

Well, that is a part of the problem. Humor or not, part of the issue is that we have new better treatments than ever before, but of course new technology, and new treatments, cost more.

This is part of the reason why newer treatments, newer medications, and newer technologies are simply not available in a socialized systems. That's part of how they keep costs down.

For example, so of the procedures and medications, very common in the US, are not available at all in France.

But it's cheaper! Well yeah, because they wait until something is 5 to 10 years old, and then negotiate a lower price. They are not negotiating a lower price for a new drug, or new treatment. They are negotiating a lower price on something old.

It would be like Government saying they were going to buy everyone a new car, and you show up at the dealer lot, and find it filled with cars from 2004.

The difference is, we know about it. Over in France, the doctors are not allowed by law, to tell patients about treatments the government doesn't cover.

I notice you left no link to that BS about France.

yes but in general he's right. Europe has worse care because:

1) they are poorer and can afford less. France has the income of Arkansas, for example. THey buy less and they buy older drugs and treatments which are cheaper and less effective.

2) being more socialist they invent far less. USA hold 80% of all recent health care patents for example

3) in Europe most of those who can afford to buy care elect to do so because competitive free market care is naturally superior to monopolistic inefficient socialist care.

No links from you either.
The French have access the most advanced drugs, but the manufacturers charge them less than they charge Americans. That should really piss you off.
You should really do some traveling. Europe has changed a lot since the days immediately following WW2.

 

[Political Junky]

Health care in France - the French health service

 

[Andylusion]

Over in France, the doctors are not allowed by law, to tell patients about treatments the government doesn't cover.

do you have proof of what you say above? Id love to see it.


A shock study has revealed more than half of cancer patients in France, Spain, Germany and Italy are treated with drugs invented since 1985.

But in the UK, only 40 per cent of patients receive them.

If you are still using drugs from 1985, in 2014, that would tend to support my point.

Quality of care evaluation in France

In September 2004, the main regional care trust (a regional council of the national public health insurance system) in France, l'Union régionale des caisses d'assurance maladie (URCAM) Ile-de-France, which operates in Paris and its suburbs, published an audit concerning the treatment of colon cancer that used clinical practice guidelines issued in March 1998.2 Another regional care trust, URCAM Limousin, recently published an audit concerning the surgical treatment of thyroid masses that was performed in 2003 and that also used obsolete guidelines from December 1995.3

Care trusts have a major conflict of interest; outdated guidelines have already been used to deny coverage for new treatment strategies.

So let's review. French regional care trusts, were using outdated treatment guildlines, to deny coverage for new treatments.

Of course the purpose of this is to cut costs, which is far more important than good treatment in a socialized system with limited funds.

Not sure if the patients would agree, but as long as they don't know, they won't complain.

I have not been able to find the law that prohibits doctors from telling patients yet... but I will find it.

 

[Andylusion]

Yes great point. If people were shopping carefully with their own money and suppliers were forced to compete on basis of price and quality my estimate is price would be 20% of what it now and average life expectancy would be up by 20 years.

If you also made it a little more painful for granny to go visit her doctor because she's lonely (which happens an awful lot) and had an honest discussion about end of life care (30% of all care a person consumes is in the last year of life)....you might find things to be less costly.

Yes, if the buyer of healthcare services was put back into the picture, prices would normalize. Too bad, the semi-communist mass base of the ruling democrat party will never allow that to happen, neither will the insurance cartell backed republican congressional minority. HEHEHE

My American friends, you are just beginning the dance, how well you all have been punked out of your own cash and with you all cheering along to get screwed some more. WHEHEHEHEHE

Actually, there is a growing number of Hospitals and care providers, now openly posting prices. There is even a growing number of clinics that refuse insurance, and require direct payment for care.

 

[Andylusion]

I notice you left no link to that BS about France.

yes but in general he's right. Europe has worse care because:

1) they are poorer and can afford less. France has the income of Arkansas, for example. THey buy less and they buy older drugs and treatments which are cheaper and less effective.

2) being more socialist they invent far less. USA hold 80% of all recent health care patents for example

3) in Europe most of those who can afford to buy care elect to do so because competitive free market care is naturally superior to monopolistic inefficient socialist care.

No links from you either.
The French have access the most advanced drugs, but the manufacturers charge them less than they charge Americans. That should really piss you off.
You should really do some traveling. Europe has changed a lot since the days immediately following WW2.

I have been to Europe, and specifically France. It's not the same, nor superior. French hospitals are ridiculous compared to US hospitals.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

yes but in general he's right. Europe has worse care because:

1) they are poorer and can afford less. France has the income of Arkansas, for example. THey buy less and they buy older drugs and treatments which are cheaper and less effective.

2) being more socialist they invent far less. USA hold 80% of all recent health care patents for example

3) in Europe most of those who can afford to buy care elect to do so because competitive free market care is naturally superior to monopolistic inefficient socialist care.

No links from you either.
The French have access the most advanced drugs, but the manufacturers charge them less than they charge Americans. That should really piss you off.
You should really do some traveling. Europe has changed a lot since the days immediately following WW2.

I have been to Europe, and specifically France. It's not the same, nor superior. French hospitals are ridiculous compared to US hospitals.

yes France has the per capita income of Arkansas, about our poorest state so of course many things there will be substandard by American standards.

 

[Andylusion]

No links from you either.
The French have access the most advanced drugs, but the manufacturers charge them less than they charge Americans. That should really piss you off.
You should really do some traveling. Europe has changed a lot since the days immediately following WW2.

I have been to Europe, and specifically France. It's not the same, nor superior. French hospitals are ridiculous compared to US hospitals.

yes France has the per capita income of Arkansas, about our poorest state so of course many things there will be substandard by American standards.

There's a number of reasons for that though, and it's tied to health care. As taxes go up, of course incomes will decline. Additionally, as taxes go up, the wealthy leave. France has driven out millions of their highest income people, which drastically drives down per capita incomes.

France's Reckoning: Rich, Young Flee Welfare State - World - CBN News - Christian News 24-7 - CBN.com

According to one poll in Le Point, half of all young adults in France would leave the country if they could because the future looks so bleak.

It's worse, much worse than we know.

It's pretty tough to be successful in a nation where the president says he doesn't like rich people and where the taxes keep going higher and higher. Consequently, the wealthy have hit the exits, and an increasing number of business people say they've had enough.

6th largest French population.... now outside France.

As a result, France today is trapped by a welfare state that it is both addicted to and can no longer afford, a welfare state where high taxes and stifling regulation are killing economic opportunity.

The most recent statistics available show 26,000 French families left in 2010, and 35,000 in 2011. London is now called the "sixth largest French city."

"The entrepreneurial young people, they're going to London," Paris economist Jacob Arfwedson said. "They're going to Asia; they're going to the United States because they want to achieve something that is not automatically taken away by a state that says, 'You have, therefore I take it.'"

Now think about that... in a country with high unemployment, the entrepreneurial people are leaving. The very people who create jobs and economic growth, are leaving the country.

Why why? Because taxes are so high. Why? Because of health care, and other socialized programs that need money.

So when people say "well of course their health care isn't quite as funded, because they have lower per capita income", I would say the reverse "It's because of their expensive government funded health care, that they have a lower per capita income".