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That is not true, the used that at the trial. The Russians blamed a lot of Germany which is yet to be found out , thank God for revisionism. If you read under the post she blamed Germany.
@ Penelope: There were TWO separate massacres. One in 1940 of Polish officers and others in the KATYN FOREST, which I very clearly stated was perpetrated by the Russian NKVD.
There was also a massacre of civilians at Khatyn in Byelorussia, in 1943: that was perpetrated by the Nazi Germans, who burned many different towns throughout Byelorussia.
I am not responsible for the picture. But I will be informing Wikipedia that the picture is inaccurate and misleading.
None of that, however, changes the facts about Nazi atrocities in Byelorussia and other areas which they overran.
As I said I was going to research This Khatyn Byelourussia killings and I did. Seems this was after the Holodomor in Ukraine which resulted in a lot of angry people. So they were mainly Ukraines who went with the Germans in German uniforms , so they are not Germans, they were a mixture. Also that area was working with Russia , although many were innocent , they got caught up in the fighting. Russia tried two of the leaders. So its misleading to say this was another German massacre.
G. Vassiura Head of the 118th police battalion headquarters
The 118th police battalion was formed late in 1942 in the city of Kiev. It was made of Soviet hooked prisoners of war, deserters and criminals who agreed to cooperate with invaders. They had special training in different German schools, they wore German uniform and swore fealty to Hitler. Doing so they betrayed their Motherland. In Kiev the battalion was especially notorious for annihilating people in Babi Yar. That outrage and ferocity was like a good letter of reference for them to be sent to Belorussia.
The battalion arrived in the small of town of Pleschinitsy. Each department was headed by a chief. He was a German officer in charge of his people and it was him who supervised their crimes. The 118th police battalion chief was a Sturmbannfuhrer (SS Major) Erich Kerner. Hans Welke was the chief of one of the companies. (He was the 1936 Olympic Games champion in shotput). When the war started Welke was not sent to the eastern front. He earned all of his iron Crosses at the rear. It was him who partisans finished off at the road fork for Pleschinitsy, Logoisk, Kozyry and Khatyn. Grigory Vassiura was chief of the 118th police battalion headquarters. His outrage knew no limits. He was cruel even with his subordinates. He participated in many punitive operations which deprived hunderds of innocent people of their lives.
A court trial was held in Minsk in 1986. A hangman of Khatyn G. Vassiura was tried there. The 14 volumes of case No. 104 abounded in many vivid facts of awesome outrage of the punisher. Vassiura was found guilty of all his crimes and by the verdict of the military tribunal of the Belorussian military district was sentenced to death by capital punishment.
]The 118th police battalion[/url]
Of course Russia and Jewish writers would say German leaders supervised their crimes. I mean it was blamed on the Germans.
Again with the removal of Germany from the atrocities they committed. The deniers have already won...you don't blame Germans and Germany for their bloodlust...you blame the mystical Nazi that only existed for a brief moment in history and are forever gone.
Holocaust deniers win! Germany has been taken out of the equation.
You seem to have a racial hatred of Germans.
Why do you believe the Germans to be more capable of 'exterminating' people than any other nation?
I would remind you that the US was built on the destruction and dispossession of c.20 million natives and today many of those people's ancestors live in concentration camps, er...reservations.
But lets just blame the Germans eh?
Why do you defend Germany and their history of hate and bloodlust is the better question?
It does provide sources though, so you can track down original material.
In reality that doesnt happen, people use it willy-nilly and it is not questioned, in my opinion it is tainted as a source especially on the holocaust.
If you question what is in it, all you have to do is ask them to back up some point with original source material. Wiki is far better than sources which require no citations or cite themselves as a source.
In reality that doesnt happen, people use it willy-nilly and it is not questioned, in my opinion it is tainted as a source especially on the holocaust.
If you question what is in it, all you have to do is ask them to back up some point with original source material. Wiki is far better than sources which require no citations or cite themselves as a source.
3,000 TONS of evidence, thousands of confessions, and tens of thousands of eyewitnesses. SIX million killed.
nor should they be surprised at the high Jewish death toll.
There wasnt a high Jewish death toll, in fact it was exceptionally low, 300,000.
In effect Hitler removed the Jews from the main cities and the main theatres of war and preserved them in camps.
He didn't mean this to happen of course, he hated them but when you think about it the fact that he saved so many of them (as an accidental by-product of his policies) is the Jews greatest victory against Hitler and the Nazis
The Holocaust in occupied Poland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Prior to Second World War there were 3,500,000 Jews in the Polish Second Republic, about 10% of the population, living predominantly in the cities. Between the 1939 German invasion of Poland, and the end of World War II, over 90% of Polish Jewry perished."
One wonders what [MENTION=24727]Urbanguerrilla[/MENTION] has been smoking - or where he got that 'low' figure. The rest of his post is now toast since it relied on a number which was off by a factor of about 10.
Katyn massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
@ Penelope: That photo is a picture of the Khatyn massacre, of murdered Byelorussian civilians killed in 1943 by Nazi troops.
That crime was a different one than the 1940 Katyn massacre to which you alluded.
Katyn massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
And yes, that crime was committed by Stalin's NKVD while blaming the Nazis. They never 'fessed up until the '90's. Considering how many times Germany and Russia marched across Poland to 'rescue' it from one another, nobody should really be very surprised about that.........
nor should they be surprised at the high Jewish death toll.
There wasnt a high Jewish death toll, in fact it was exceptionally low, 300,000.
In effect Hitler removed the Jews from the main cities and the main theatres of war and preserved them in camps.
He didn't mean this to happen of course, he hated them but when you think about it the fact that he saved so many of them (as an accidental by-product of his policies) is the Jews greatest victory against Hitler and the Nazis
If you question what is in it, all you have to do is ask them to back up some point with original source material. Wiki is far better than sources which require no citations or cite themselves as a source.
3,000 TONS of evidence, thousands of confessions, and tens of thousands of eyewitnesses. SIX million killed.
You are just repeating a mantra Peach.
You need to show some of this evidence to back up your beliefs.
There wasnt a high Jewish death toll, in fact it was exceptionally low, 300,000.
In effect Hitler removed the Jews from the main cities and the main theatres of war and preserved them in camps.
He didn't mean this to happen of course, he hated them but when you think about it the fact that he saved so many of them (as an accidental by-product of his policies) is the Jews greatest victory against Hitler and the Nazis
The Holocaust in occupied Poland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Prior to Second World War there were 3,500,000 Jews in the Polish Second Republic, about 10% of the population, living predominantly in the cities. Between the 1939 German invasion of Poland, and the end of World War II, over 90% of Polish Jewry perished."
One wonders what [MENTION=24727]Urbanguerrilla[/MENTION] has been smoking - or where he got that 'low' figure. The rest of his post is now toast since it relied on a number which was off by a factor of about 10.
We were discussing wikipedia, its a very poor source, have you got anything else to back up your claim?
This is the ICRC (Red Cross) figures for the camps and the total of 271,501. Not all of these were Jews and there were other deaths of course beside the camps.
In reality that doesnt happen, people use it willy-nilly and it is not questioned, in my opinion it is tainted as a source especially on the holocaust.
If you question what is in it, all you have to do is ask them to back up some point with original source material. Wiki is far better than sources which require no citations or cite themselves as a source.
There are many 'facts' stated in wikipedia which have [source required] written after them, that is a nonsensical approach.
Israel has a 'war room' organized by the Israeli student union branch at the interdisciplinary Center Herzliya (IDC Herzliya), a prestigious private university to enable students to put out Israeli propaganda. They target Facebook and wikipedia. These sites are obviously tainted because of these attacks.
Wikipedia is highly unreliable.
It does provide sources though, so you can track down original material.
In reality that doesnt happen, people use it willy-nilly and it is not questioned, in my opinion it is tainted as a source especially on the holocaust.
If you question what is in it, all you have to do is ask them to back up some point with original source material. Wiki is far better than sources which require no citations or cite themselves as a source.
There are many 'facts' stated in wikipedia which have [source required] written after them, that is a nonsensical approach.
Israel has a 'war room' organized by the Israeli student union branch at the interdisciplinary Center Herzliya (IDC Herzliya), a prestigious private university to enable students to put out Israeli propaganda. They target Facebook and wikipedia. These sites are obviously tainted because of these attacks.
Hilarious! So you consider Wiki 'suspect' because of...... ???? You've not included any source nor citation for your assertion about IDC Herzliya. So we should question a well-known source because some random anonymous wanker on a chat board makes accusations of people trying to introduce bias there?
Exactly how do you purport to 'know' this is so?
Hilarious! So you consider Wiki 'suspect' because of...... ???? You've not included any source nor citation for your assertion about IDC Herzliya. So we should question a well-known source because some random anonymous wanker on a chat board makes accusations of people trying to introduce bias there?
Exactly how do you purport to 'know' this is so?
nor should they be surprised at the high Jewish death toll.
There wasnt a high Jewish death toll, in fact it was exceptionally low, 300,000.
In effect Hitler removed the Jews from the main cities and the main theatres of war and preserved them in camps.
He didn't mean this to happen of course, he hated them but when you think about it the fact that he saved so many of them (as an accidental by-product of his policies) is the Jews greatest victory against Hitler and the Nazis
I wonder if Holocaust deniers realize how dishonest and stupid they look every time they post phony numbers?
There wasnt a high Jewish death toll, in fact it was exceptionally low, 300,000.
In effect Hitler removed the Jews from the main cities and the main theatres of war and preserved them in camps.
He didn't mean this to happen of course, he hated them but when you think about it the fact that he saved so many of them (as an accidental by-product of his policies) is the Jews greatest victory against Hitler and the Nazis
I wonder if Holocaust deniers realize how dishonest and stupid they look every time they post phony numbers?
My father, uncle, and one of my professors in law school saw evidence. None of the three knew each other, I doubt any "conspiracy" reached them all. And there is evidence in a room at Widener library I saw with my own eyes; anyone who discounts the Nuremberg trials isn't playing with a full deck.
It does provide sources though, so you can track down original material.
In reality that doesnt happen, people use it willy-nilly and it is not questioned, in my opinion it is tainted as a source especially on the holocaust.
In my opinion your opinions are based on nothing.
@ Penelope: There were TWO separate massacres. One in 1940 of Polish officers and others in the KATYN FOREST, which I very clearly stated was perpetrated by the Russian NKVD.
There was also a massacre of civilians at Khatyn in Byelorussia, in 1943: that was perpetrated by the Nazi Germans, who burned many different towns throughout Byelorussia.
I am not responsible for the picture. But I will be informing Wikipedia that the picture is inaccurate and misleading.
None of that, however, changes the facts about Nazi atrocities in Byelorussia and other areas which they overran.
As I said I was going to research This Khatyn Byelourussia killings and I did. Seems this was after the Holodomor in Ukraine which resulted in a lot of angry people. So they were mainly Ukraines who went with the Germans in German uniforms , so they are not Germans, they were a mixture. Also that area was working with Russia , although many were innocent , they got caught up in the fighting. Russia tried two of the leaders. So its misleading to say this was another German massacre.
G. Vassiura — Head of the 118th police battalion headquarters
The 118th police battalion was formed late in 1942 in the city of Kiev. It was made of Soviet hooked prisoners of war, deserters and criminals who agreed to cooperate with invaders. They had special training in different German schools, they wore German uniform and swore fealty to Hitler. Doing so they betrayed their Motherland. In Kiev the battalion was especially notorious for annihilating people in Babi Yar. That outrage and ferocity was like a good letter of reference for them to be sent to Belorussia.
The battalion arrived in the small of town of Pleschinitsy. Each department was headed by a chief. He was a German officer in charge of his people and it was him who supervised their crimes. The 118th police battalion chief was a Sturmbannfuhrer (SS Major) Erich Kerner. Hans Welke was the chief of one of the companies. (He was the 1936 Olympic Games champion in shotput). When the war started Welke was not sent to the eastern front. He earned all of his iron Crosses at the rear. It was him who partisans finished off at the road fork for Pleschinitsy, Logoisk, Kozyry and Khatyn. Grigory Vassiura was chief of the 118th police battalion headquarters. His outrage knew no limits. He was cruel even with his subordinates. He participated in many punitive operations which deprived hunderds of innocent people of their lives.
A court trial was held in Minsk in 1986. A hangman of Khatyn G. Vassiura was tried there. The 14 volumes of case No. 104 abounded in many vivid facts of awesome outrage of the punisher. Vassiura was found guilty of all his crimes and by the verdict of the military tribunal of the Belorussian military district was sentenced to death by capital punishment.
]The 118th police battalion[/url]
Of course Russia and Jewish writers would say German leaders supervised their crimes. I mean it was blamed on the Germans.
It doesn't work the way you're trying to get it to, Penleope. They were in Nazi uniforms and subjecting themselves to Nazi commanders. Therefore they were acting as agents of the Nazi regime.
You should have had this explained to you by your contacts in the military. I'm certain we have some posters here, though, who can explain your error to you.
As I said I was going to research This Khatyn Byelourussia killings and I did. Seems this was after the Holodomor in Ukraine which resulted in a lot of angry people. So they were mainly Ukraines who went with the Germans in German uniforms , so they are not Germans, they were a mixture. Also that area was working with Russia , although many were innocent , they got caught up in the fighting. Russia tried two of the leaders. So its misleading to say this was another German massacre.
G. Vassiura Head of the 118th police battalion headquarters
The 118th police battalion was formed late in 1942 in the city of Kiev. It was made of Soviet hooked prisoners of war, deserters and criminals who agreed to cooperate with invaders. They had special training in different German schools, they wore German uniform and swore fealty to Hitler. Doing so they betrayed their Motherland. In Kiev the battalion was especially notorious for annihilating people in Babi Yar. That outrage and ferocity was like a good letter of reference for them to be sent to Belorussia.
The battalion arrived in the small of town of Pleschinitsy. Each department was headed by a chief. He was a German officer in charge of his people and it was him who supervised their crimes. The 118th police battalion chief was a Sturmbannfuhrer (SS Major) Erich Kerner. Hans Welke was the chief of one of the companies. (He was the 1936 Olympic Games champion in shotput). When the war started Welke was not sent to the eastern front. He earned all of his iron Crosses at the rear. It was him who partisans finished off at the road fork for Pleschinitsy, Logoisk, Kozyry and Khatyn. Grigory Vassiura was chief of the 118th police battalion headquarters. His outrage knew no limits. He was cruel even with his subordinates. He participated in many punitive operations which deprived hunderds of innocent people of their lives.
A court trial was held in Minsk in 1986. A hangman of Khatyn G. Vassiura was tried there. The 14 volumes of case No. 104 abounded in many vivid facts of awesome outrage of the punisher. Vassiura was found guilty of all his crimes and by the verdict of the military tribunal of the Belorussian military district was sentenced to death by capital punishment.
]The 118th police battalion[/url]
Of course Russia and Jewish writers would say German leaders supervised their crimes. I mean it was blamed on the Germans.
It doesn't work the way you're trying to get it to, Penleope. They were in Nazi uniforms and subjecting themselves to Nazi commanders. Therefore they were acting as agents of the Nazi regime.
You should have had this explained to you by your contacts in the military. I'm certain we have some posters here, though, who can explain your error to you.
They were not Germans, they were AWOL from their home country fighting their own country men. Now you can't blame Hitler for everything other men did. Some were very brutal, but we must be as accurate as possible and well Belouse was working with Russia, but yes a lot of innocent people got killed horribly, happens even today.
this is nothing different than what the US or Stalin's men or Japan's men did (some of them) in wartime.
Welcome back........You've obviously never in your life read an actual book. You should try it some time.....instead of gleaning horseshit from websites designed for idiots.
In reality that doesnt happen, people use it willy-nilly and it is not questioned, in my opinion it is tainted as a source especially on the holocaust.
In my opinion your opinions are based on nothing.
I use it but it has changed in the last few years, one whole article was based on a book, like a book report, and many footnotes lead to no where that is reliable, other books wrote by people who appear to be bias. One can't read a whole wiki art. when its footnotes all refer to Jewish sources. Its the same with everything on wiki, often we see "citation needed" well that then is heresay, but it is a good place to start and often I will go with it.
