Holy crap - this has to stop!

[RetiredGySgt]

On NPR this evening, driving home, I listended to two great interviews - one with two freshmen congress critters - one Dem and one Repub...the other with someone who had previously worked with Gabby Giffords, then later won her seat when she stepped down. The gist was - we are all colleagues here, and that what is happening now has got to stop, it's absolutely toxic to civil society and I agree.

They said the same thing after Giffords was shot. It only got worse.

And she was shot by a lefty too.

 

[Bush92]

I agree

This has to stop

This Administration has to get tough with left wing thugs

Zero tolerance.

Know what I mean?

Yes, we know what you mean.

No. The Democrats want control by a central authority. GOP wants states rights and personal liberty. Here's is the model liberal society

 

[SYTFE]

Seriously. This toxic partisan political culture is poisoning civil society.

What the hell is wrong with us?

The left and the right pulling hair and screeching their bumpersticker slogans and broad brush pig ignorant partisan blamegaming? What's wrong with us?

I'm no youngster. I've never seen such a dangerous ambient.

We have someone shooting at one of our few remaining bipartisan non political fun charitable events because he wants to kill a bunch of (insert political party).

The rhetoric flooding the country is poisoning us. And no one wants to take responsibility for stepping up and saying "enough already". For changing it.

Our representatives are colleagues first and foremost. Political opponents second. They recognize it. That violence against one is violence against the others and against our very institutions. Why are we unable to recognize that?

The danger and violence is all emanating from your side of the isle.

So troublemakers come to his rallies to disrupt or try to stop it, but Trump is responsible for telling his people to use the same kind of violence they planned to use against his supporters. But those troublemakers are not promoting violence--Trump is.

Here's an idea: If troublemakers don't want a problem--don't go to Trump rallies in the first place to start trouble. Nah....... too much thinking for a liberal.

"Troublemakers?" Get a grip dude. This is America, and we have the right to free speech. You're now the second degenerate refusing to condone Trump's calls for violence. Disgusting.

Trump called for law breaking trespassers to be treated exactly the way the law prescribes.

The law does not prescribe assault. Sorry bub.

 

[g5000]

On NPR this evening, driving home, I listended to two great interviews - one with two freshmen congress critters - one Dem and one Repub...the other with someone who had previously worked with Gabby Giffords, then later won her seat when she stepped down. The gist was - we are all colleagues here, and that what is happening now has got to stop, it's absolutely toxic to civil society and I agree.

They said the same thing after Giffords was shot. It only got worse.

And she was shot by a lefty too.

Nice try.

He was neither left nor right.

He was a paranoid schizophrenic.

Arrested at 17: Accused Tucson Shooter Had Run-ins With the Law

"He did not watch TV, he disliked the news," Zach Osler said. "He didn't listen to political radio, he didn't take sides, he wasn't on the left, he wasn't on the right."

The lying by hacks is worse than the name calling.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Seriously. This toxic partisan political culture is poisoning civil society.

What the hell is wrong with us?

The left and the right pulling hair and screeching their bumpersticker slogans and broad brush pig ignorant partisan blamegaming? What's wrong with us?

I'm no youngster. I've never seen such a dangerous ambient.

We have someone shooting at one of our few remaining bipartisan non political fun charitable events because he wants to kill a bunch of (insert political party).

The rhetoric flooding the country is poisoning us. And no one wants to take responsibility for stepping up and saying "enough already". For changing it.

Our representatives are colleagues first and foremost. Political opponents second. They recognize it. That violence against one is violence against the others and against our very institutions. Why are we unable to recognize that?

It's a damn shame that our president play such a big role in the hatred and isn't the leader we need to heal the wounds.

He's a sucko piece of crap president BUT he is OUR elected representative. His office does stand for something and that includes basic respect. If he's not the leader to heal wounds - WE HAVE TO BE. We can't just crawl around crying and blaming and damaging our society and blaming the election. We CAN'T allow OUR rhetoric to energize our wingnuts into unspeakable actions because we have a p.o.s. president.

Going to have to call you on something here. He is in fact NOT a "sucko piece of crap". He is the President of the United States. If we ever want this stuff to stop the first thing you need to bring to the table is respect. He is the leader of this country and his authority supersedes yours and mine by orders of magnitude. This kind of name calling only engenders more hatred. This does not promote healing, it encourages more acts of hatred.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

If we went to popular vote instead of the colleges, that would mean major Democrat cities and states would overrule the vote of the rest of the country.

Our founders never wanted that. They wanted equality across the land. So much like having a governmental system of 2 Senators per state regardless of population, colleges serve as an equity to states that are less populated.

New York city has 7 million people. The entire state of Idaho has 1.5 million people. Popular vote would mean that one city in the US has more power than four entire states like Idaho in the union. Is that what you are suggesting?

Do you remember talking to me about school vouchers? Your response was that school vouchers are good because of CHOICE. You made this whole thing about how it's the right who love choice and not the left, blah blah.

Now, you're not talking about choice. In fact you're against choice. Go figure Ray.

You want equality? So, the Republicans having an unfair advantage is equal? What the fuck?



Actually what would happen with PR is that the two party monopoly on power would be destroyed. The Founding Fathers didn't want a monopoly on power, if we're going to talk about what the Founding Fathers did or did not want. They did not want the President being elected by popular politics, but then Obama, Trump, Bush W. and Clinton were all elected more on personality than on substance.

Again, Idaho has a population of 1.5 million and New York has a population of 7-8 million. So, you'd give the people of Idaho more power just because of that? Not only that you'd keep toxic partisan politics in place (I'm certain the Founding Fathers would not want that) just to give the people of Idaho more power for their vote?

The reality is Idaho got ignored at the last Presidential election just like they've been ignored for decades. You're using an argument to say that Idaho need to be listened to, by supporting a system which IGNORES Idaho. Way'da go there Ray.

I didn't say it gave equity to Idaho compared to NYC, what I said is that it at least keeps them in the race. Without the college, those states would be ignored like Hillary ignored them. But because they have some equity through the college system, politicians have to campaign for their votes too.

In other words, without the college, the country would be controlled by NYC, Chicago and California. That's it. If you don't belong to those three cities and states, it's not worth your time to vote. We would be a one-party government forever (which is what the Democrats are trying to do anyway with immigration).

It keeps them in a race they haven't been in for, well probably since forever.

Oh, so, without the electoral college Idaho would be ignored, just as it is ignored with the electoral college. Is this really your argument? Come on.

The reality is this, Ray. With two parties in power, they'll go wherever the votes are needed to get them across the finishing line. Right now that's Florida, Ohio, Michigan, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Nevada, Maine, Arizona, North Carolina, Colorado.

Take a look at this map. It's basically the states I mentioned. Where's Idaho?

The Crazy, Lopsided Math of Campaign 2016's Ad Spending So Far

This is from June 10th 2016

Trump spent $2.5 million in Florida, $1.8 million in North Carolina, $3.6 million in Iowa, the whole of Idaho got $361,000 spent on it by all sides.

Compare that to $54 million for Florida. They have 20 million people, that's $2.5 per person in the state. That's $6 per voter.
In Idaho that's $0.60 per voter, ten times less. And apparently you want the electoral college so Idaho doesn't get ignored.

Do you know what happens with PR?

Firstly you have a lot more parties. Which means you could have a Red-Neck Farmers' Party which might sweep up the votes of all the red neck farmers. Instead of Trump going to Florida and spending loads of money on advertising in the state, then walking away and only going back to play golf, he'd have to keep up the interest in the state, he'd have to offer them what a smaller party might be offering them and more.
In fact he'd have to join in a coalition (or well the House might, depending on how the system worked) with the Red-Neck Farmers' Party who would demand certain concessions for propping up his government.
Even if they weren't in government they'd be able to fight for their core support, putting in bills into Congress, trying to strike down those that didn't suit them.

Right now you have two parties, Democrats and Republicans. Democrats fight for whatever it is that Democrats think half the country wants and the Republicans doing the same for the other half.

In PR you'd have different parties fighting for different things and having far more success at it than trying to convince the big wigs at the top that it should be so.

So, your arguments for keeping the system are actually the arguments for GETTING RID OF THE SYSTEM.

View attachment 133175

But the blue should have been able to control the red.

So, you're saying land area should have equality of vote, not the people?

I mean, seriously, this isn't a response to what I wrote. This is a "I can't respond to what you wrote, so I'll try and find a man that fits my agenda". What's your argument Ray?

A President has the ability to rule over land and people. So of course people should be able to vote for their land as well.

We are not a Democracy, we are a Republic. If we were a pure Democracy, do you think slavery would have ended when it did? How about voting rights?

If you really want a popular vote, how would our country be today if the minority had no ability to overrule the majority?

Here's an idea: why don't we use popular vote to decide on Affirmative Action, Fair Housing, social programs??? I'm all for that--are you???

 

[OKTexas]

Deporting illegals who commit violent crimes shouldn't be held up forever and they certainly should not be released - deportation should be decided within no more than a month. So right there - Democrats could work with the Republicans.

They "could" is the word at hand.

Democrats are on a campaign to make whites a minority in this country as soon as possible. Given the fact that all minority groups today vote a majority Democrat, the plan is to turn our nation into a single-party government, so don't look for Democrats to side with Republicans on the immigration issue. Just look at the Democrat cities and states opposing sanctuary city defunding. Look at the Democrat courts that ruled it unconstitutional even though the constitution doesn't have any references to immigration.

I don't think so. And a big reason is - many hispanics are culturally very conservative and religious. They could as easily vote Republican.

Also, many of those in the forefront of the sanctuary city movement, and opposing deportations are people typically associated with the right - people of faith. I think the issue is about more than "bring in the voters" and reducing it to that ignores the ethical and moral issues.

There are no ethical or moral issues in enforcing the law, they come with violating the law.


.

 

[depotoo]

Maybe you should have listened to the rhetoric coming from your own...

I listened to the local conservative-talk-radio some today to see if anything would change from their normal "life is miserable and it's all and always the libruls fault". They didn't, they in fact doubled-down to blame all of this shooting nonsense and whatever other ills they could fit into their 3 hours on 'libruls'.

These people live in a bubble where all things they and their 'team' do are pure golden honey that Jesus would love and everything 'the other team' does is pure evil worst than Satan on Earth.

No need to look for where this hardened heart in America comes from, they've been saying this same mantra for the last 25 years and nothing will turn them from their course. They view their fellow Americans as evil. Just as Isis does their enemies. You cannot reason with a viewpoint that rejects reason in the first place.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Seriously. This toxic partisan political culture is poisoning civil society.

What the hell is wrong with us?

The left and the right pulling hair and screeching their bumpersticker slogans and broad brush pig ignorant partisan blamegaming? What's wrong with us?

I'm no youngster. I've never seen such a dangerous ambient.

We have someone shooting at one of our few remaining bipartisan non political fun charitable events because he wants to kill a bunch of (insert political party).

The rhetoric flooding the country is poisoning us. And no one wants to take responsibility for stepping up and saying "enough already". For changing it.

Our representatives are colleagues first and foremost. Political opponents second. They recognize it. That violence against one is violence against the others and against our very institutions. Why are we unable to recognize that?

The danger and violence is all emanating from your side of the isle.

So these people show up to be disruptive and wonder why violence was perpetrated upon them. So where are the Trump people disrupting all those Hillary rallies? Doak..there are none.

Way to completely miss the incisive rhetoric that your dear leader has been spewing. It's as if you have some sort of permanent blinders on that prevent you from seeing it.

Remind me of all the attacks and shooting perpetrated by Republicans on Democrats the last 8 months?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Not at all. Obama effigies were quite common. You never noticed?

We all noticed. Some of us didn't care. I didn't in the beginning. But then it started hitting me how ugly it was getting. Bush, Obama, Trump... same shit, different party. Now it gets to the point it turns my stomach.

 

[Pogo]

Seriously. This toxic partisan political culture is poisoning civil society.

What the hell is wrong with us?

The left and the right pulling hair and screeching their bumpersticker slogans and broad brush pig ignorant partisan blamegaming? What's wrong with us?

I'm no youngster. I've never seen such a dangerous ambient.

We have someone shooting at one of our few remaining bipartisan non political fun charitable events because he wants to kill a bunch of (insert political party).

The rhetoric flooding the country is poisoning us. And no one wants to take responsibility for stepping up and saying "enough already". For changing it.

Our representatives are colleagues first and foremost. Political opponents second. They recognize it. That violence against one is violence against the others and against our very institutions. Why are we unable to recognize that?

The danger and violence is all emanating from your side of the isle.

So these people show up to be disruptive and wonder why violence was perpetrated upon them. So where are the Trump people disrupting all those Hillary rallies? Doak..there are none.

Way to completely miss the incisive rhetoric that your dear leader has been spewing. It's as if you have some sort of permanent blinders on that prevent you from seeing it.

Remind me of all the attacks and shooting perpetrated by Republicans on Democrats the last 8 months?

What kind of moron hears about a shooting and goes to find out "quick, what's his political party?"

You'd have to be an absolute cretin.

That would be as stupid as hearing about a shooting and going "quick, what's his religion?"

 

[frigidweirdo]

I agree

This has to stop

This Administration has to get tough with left wing thugs

Zero tolerance.

Know what I mean?

Yes, we know what you mean.

With all respect

Who cares what you say....

nope, nobody

Oh, wow, perfect bully tactics. Am I shocked you don't have an argument?

 

[Tilly]

Seriously. This toxic partisan political culture is poisoning civil society.

What the hell is wrong with us?

The left and the right pulling hair and screeching their bumpersticker slogans and broad brush pig ignorant partisan blamegaming? What's wrong with us?

I'm no youngster. I've never seen such a dangerous ambient.

We have someone shooting at one of our few remaining bipartisan non political fun charitable events because he wants to kill a bunch of (insert political party).

The rhetoric flooding the country is poisoning us. And no one wants to take responsibility for stepping up and saying "enough already". For changing it.

Our representatives are colleagues first and foremost. Political opponents second. They recognize it. That violence against one is violence against the others and against our very institutions. Why are we unable to recognize that?

The danger and violence is all emanating from your side of the isle.

So these people show up to be disruptive and wonder why violence was perpetrated upon them. So where are the Trump people disrupting all those Hillary rallies? Doak..there are none.

Way to completely miss the incisive rhetoric that your dear leader has been spewing. It's as if you have some sort of permanent blinders on that prevent you from seeing it.

Oh, I'm sorry, I couldn't hear...I was at the bottom of the basket of deplorables.

Oh, I'm sorry, I couldn't hear...I was at the bottom of the basket of deplorables.[/QUOTE]

 

[TemplarKormac]

And a perfect example of what I was talking about...

The HATE is on your side. You (collectively) get these nuts worked into a frenzy of hate until one of them thinks he's doing God's service. This is on you. Live with it.

have you missed the last 8 years, bagger

Repaying hatred with hatred. People like you will never learn.

 

[OKTexas]

Seriously. This toxic partisan political culture is poisoning civil society.

What the hell is wrong with us?

The left and the right pulling hair and screeching their bumpersticker slogans and broad brush pig ignorant partisan blamegaming? What's wrong with us?

I'm no youngster. I've never seen such a dangerous ambient.

We have someone shooting at one of our few remaining bipartisan non political fun charitable events because he wants to kill a bunch of (insert political party).

The rhetoric flooding the country is poisoning us. And no one wants to take responsibility for stepping up and saying "enough already". For changing it.

Our representatives are colleagues first and foremost. Political opponents second. They recognize it. That violence against one is violence against the others and against our very institutions. Why are we unable to recognize that?

Now if only the Senior USMB moderator (who is that) would suspend the obvious racists and other people who said liberals would be partying at this news (hint; his name is Geaux4it ).

Why you guys give a megaphone to garbage like that, I’ll never know.

For the same reason they give you one.


.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I agree

This has to stop

This Administration has to get tough with left wing thugs

Zero tolerance.

Know what I mean?

Yes, we know what you mean.

No. The Democrats want control by a central authority. GOP wants states rights and personal liberty. Here's is the model liberal society

Oh, really. I suppose this is why the Republicans keep increasing federal spending whenever they get the chance, right?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Seriously. This toxic partisan political culture is poisoning civil society.

What the hell is wrong with us?

The left and the right pulling hair and screeching their bumpersticker slogans and broad brush pig ignorant partisan blamegaming? What's wrong with us?

I'm no youngster. I've never seen such a dangerous ambient.

We have someone shooting at one of our few remaining bipartisan non political fun charitable events because he wants to kill a bunch of (insert political party).

The rhetoric flooding the country is poisoning us. And no one wants to take responsibility for stepping up and saying "enough already". For changing it.

Our representatives are colleagues first and foremost. Political opponents second. They recognize it. That violence against one is violence against the others and against our very institutions. Why are we unable to recognize that?

The danger and violence is all emanating from your side of the isle.

So troublemakers come to his rallies to disrupt or try to stop it, but Trump is responsible for telling his people to use the same kind of violence they planned to use against his supporters. But those troublemakers are not promoting violence--Trump is.

Here's an idea: If troublemakers don't want a problem--don't go to Trump rallies in the first place to start trouble. Nah....... too much thinking for a liberal.

"Troublemakers?" Get a grip dude. This is America, and we have the right to free speech. You're now the second degenerate refusing to condone Trump's calls for violence. Disgusting.

Free speech does not include rioting assault and battery or throwing shit. ALL THINGS PERPETRATED BY Hillary IN Trump RALLIES.

 

[Pogo]

Seriously. This toxic partisan political culture is poisoning civil society.

What the hell is wrong with us?

The left and the right pulling hair and screeching their bumpersticker slogans and broad brush pig ignorant partisan blamegaming? What's wrong with us?

I'm no youngster. I've never seen such a dangerous ambient.

We have someone shooting at one of our few remaining bipartisan non political fun charitable events because he wants to kill a bunch of (insert political party).

The rhetoric flooding the country is poisoning us. And no one wants to take responsibility for stepping up and saying "enough already". For changing it.

Our representatives are colleagues first and foremost. Political opponents second. They recognize it. That violence against one is violence against the others and against our very institutions. Why are we unable to recognize that?

It's a damn shame that our president play such a big role in the hatred and isn't the leader we need to heal the wounds.

He's a sucko piece of crap president BUT he is OUR elected representative. His office does stand for something and that includes basic respect. If he's not the leader to heal wounds - WE HAVE TO BE. We can't just crawl around crying and blaming and damaging our society and blaming the election. We CAN'T allow OUR rhetoric to energize our wingnuts into unspeakable actions because we have a p.o.s. president.

Going to have to call you on something here. He is in fact NOT a "sucko piece of crap". He is the President of the United States. If we ever want this stuff to stop the first thing you need to bring to the table is respect. He is the leader of this country and his authority supersedes yours and mine by orders of magnitude. This kind of name calling only engenders more hatred. This does not promote healing, it encourages more acts of hatred.

You should maybe read her post past the first sentence. See the forest; don't get hung up on a tree.

 

[Pogo]

Seriously. This toxic partisan political culture is poisoning civil society.

What the hell is wrong with us?

The left and the right pulling hair and screeching their bumpersticker slogans and broad brush pig ignorant partisan blamegaming? What's wrong with us?

I'm no youngster. I've never seen such a dangerous ambient.

We have someone shooting at one of our few remaining bipartisan non political fun charitable events because he wants to kill a bunch of (insert political party).

The rhetoric flooding the country is poisoning us. And no one wants to take responsibility for stepping up and saying "enough already". For changing it.

Our representatives are colleagues first and foremost. Political opponents second. They recognize it. That violence against one is violence against the others and against our very institutions. Why are we unable to recognize that?

The danger and violence is all emanating from your side of the isle.

So troublemakers come to his rallies to disrupt or try to stop it, but Trump is responsible for telling his people to use the same kind of violence they planned to use against his supporters. But those troublemakers are not promoting violence--Trump is.

Here's an idea: If troublemakers don't want a problem--don't go to Trump rallies in the first place to start trouble. Nah....... too much thinking for a liberal.

"Troublemakers?" Get a grip dude. This is America, and we have the right to free speech. You're now the second degenerate refusing to condone Trump's calls for violence. Disgusting.

Free speech does not include rioting assault and battery or throwing shit. ALL THINGS PERPETRATED BY Hillary IN Trump RALLIES.

Hillary showed up at a Rump rally? Link?

 

[Tilly]

Seriously. This toxic partisan political culture is poisoning civil society.

What the hell is wrong with us?

The left and the right pulling hair and screeching their bumpersticker slogans and broad brush pig ignorant partisan blamegaming? What's wrong with us?

I'm no youngster. I've never seen such a dangerous ambient.

We have someone shooting at one of our few remaining bipartisan non political fun charitable events because he wants to kill a bunch of (insert political party).

The rhetoric flooding the country is poisoning us. And no one wants to take responsibility for stepping up and saying "enough already". For changing it.

Our representatives are colleagues first and foremost. Political opponents second. They recognize it. That violence against one is violence against the others and against our very institutions. Why are we unable to recognize that?

It's a damn shame that our president play such a big role in the hatred and isn't the leader we need to heal the wounds.

He's a sucko piece of crap president BUT he is OUR elected representative. His office does stand for something and that includes basic respect. If he's not the leader to heal wounds - WE HAVE TO BE. We can't just crawl around crying and blaming and damaging our society and blaming the election. We CAN'T allow OUR rhetoric to energize our wingnuts into unspeakable actions because we have a p.o.s. president.

Going to have to call you on something here. He is in fact NOT a "sucko piece of crap". He is the President of the United States. If we ever want this stuff to stop the first thing you need to bring to the table is respect. He is the leader of this country and his authority supersedes yours and mine by orders of magnitude. This kind of name calling only engenders more hatred. This does not promote healing, it encourages more acts of hatred.

Exceptionally well said, Etherion