Holy crap - this has to stop!

[Uncensored2008]

It's also cherrypicked bullshit that's been trotted out and shot down before, which is always .... messy.

The South culturally/ideologically has never been anywhere near the "left" or anything but "conservative".

Despite your misrepresentations and lets face it, outright lies; the South has NEVER been anything near "conservative."

Democrat heroes to this day like Fritz Hollings were Klansman who promoted the constant growth of the Welfare state. KKK Grand Kleagal Robert Byrd was and is beloved of the most radical of the fascist progressive wing of the party.

You are a notorious liar who makes all sorts of false claims on behalf of your Fuhrer and Reich, but this particular one is believed by no one, particularly not you.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Federal pressure caused the arrest of the KKK/Democrat murderers of these Americans.


To be fair, a Democrat judge sentenced those Democrats who were found guilty....


"The trial was presided over by an ardent segregationist, U.S. District Judge William Cox, [Nominated Judge by JFK, Democrat]....
....Judge Cox sentenced the men to prison terms ranging from three to 10 years. After sentencing, he said, “They killed one ******, one Jew, and a white man. I gave them what I thought they deserved.” None of the convicted men served more than six years behind bars."
Slain civil rights workers found - Aug 04, 1964 - HISTORY.com



"Cox initially dismissed the indictments on all but two of those charged on the grounds that they were not government officials and therefore could not be charged with acting "under color of law."
On appeal, Cox's action was reversed by the U.S. Supreme Court in 1966; Cox then presided over a trial that convicted some of those charged. He issued three to ten year sentences for the convictions of first- and second-degree murder.

Cox said of his sentences, "They killed one ******, one Jew, and a white man. I gave them all what I thought they deserved."[4] Goodman and Schwerner were both Jewish."
William Harold Cox - Wikipedia





Did I mention that the Democrat Party has always been the party of slavery, segregation, and second-class citizenship?

 

[Coyote]

Keep digging.

You're still completely and I'm sure deliberately avoiding the actual point

You realize, don't you, that those people who came south to help register people to vote were northern liberals?

 

[PoliticalChic]

It's also cherrypicked bullshit that's been trotted out and shot down before, which is always .... messy.

The South culturally/ideologically has never been anywhere near the "left" or anything but "conservative".

Despite your misrepresentations and lets face it, outright lies; the South has NEVER been anything near "conservative."

Democrat heroes to this day like Fritz Hollings were Klansman who promoted the constant growth of the Welfare state. KKK Grand Kleagal Robert Byrd was and is beloved of the most radical of the fascist progressive wing of the party.

You are a notorious liar who makes all sorts of false claims on behalf of your Fuhrer and Reich, but this particular one is believed by no one, particularly not you.

I must admit that I am astounded at the lengths these low-lifes will go to deny what is clear and evident.

It has been said that big government...e.g., Liberalism, infantilizes it's supporters.
Nowhere is this more evident in denial of their past.

 

[Pogo]

Now watch me smash a custard pie in your kisser:


1. The KKK was formed for the Democrat Party to preserve slavery, segregation, and second class citizenship.

Liberal historian Eric Foner writes that the Klan was “…a military force serving the interests of the Democratic Party…” Foner, “Reconstruction: America’s Unfinished Revolution, 1863-1877,” p. 425


2. The Democrats blocked every anti-lynching bill to come to the Senate.


3. On June 21, 1964 Goodman, Chaney and Schwerner, three Americans, were slaughtered by the Democrat minions to preserve slavery, segregation, and second class citizenship.



As I said.....and proved, Democrat handiwork.



Proving you a liar was simply a bonus.

A fascinating bit of historical digression but one that completely avoided the issue ....waiting on your evidence showing the southern Dems were flaming leftists who magically became staunch rightwingers when the Republican took political control of the south...until then, wipe the custard off your face.

It's also cherrypicked bullshit that's been trotted out and shot down before, which is always .... messy.

The South culturally/ideologically has never been anywhere near the "left" or anything but "conservative". At the same time the same South was for 99 years after the Civil War staunchly Democratic Party in politics. These two facts are in no way contradictory; to try to use the latter to negate and even reverse the former is blatant dishonesty. And it depends on the cult-of-ignorance fallacy idea that "Democrat" or "Republican" or any political party, mean the same thing ideologically that they meant 150 years ago, which requires the self-delusion that such entities are somehow unaffected by changing times and their own changing self-interests and stand ideologically fixed and unmoving --- which is absurd.

Examples of why the South being at once conservative and Democratic for 99 years abound.

• George Wallace (Democrat) constantly raining against "Liberals" and then running against the Democrat candidate with a third party.
  
• Zell Miller (Democrat to this day) railing against John Kerry at the other party's convention
  
• Strom Thurmond and a coterie of fellow-traveler racists walking out of the party convention in 1948 and then running against the Democrat candidate (and nearly succeeding)
• Even back as far as 1860, Southern Democrats pulling the same thing as 1948, disrupting the convention, running its own candidate and pushing the Democratic nominee down to fourth place in the election

This self-strangling theory also purports to presume that people join or work with political parties for ideological reasons only rather than practical ones, which again ignores history. The (white) South went Democratic for 99 years not out of any ideological affinity with that party --- see the abundant conflicts as noted above ---but out of sheer historical emotion, the idea of associating with the Party of Lincoln, the man who had defeated and humiliated it, being unthinkable. "Republican" was in effect a dirty word; the Republican Party did not exist in the South before or during the War (Lincoln's name never appeared on a ballot in the South), and therefore its only association FOR the (white) South was as an invading/occupying army that wanted to dictate its fate from the North.

THAT is why the white South resisted the existence of "Republican" in ways as mild as shunning its candidates at the polls and as extreme as the terrorism committed by the Klan and literally dozens of other similar vigilante groups of various degrees of organization. These were insurgents resisting what they viewed as an overreaching federal government occupation --- nothing to do with political party ideologies, which indeed that same white South had already rejected in 1860.

The poster (PC) once again misquotes the historian's line, to wit:

Liberal historian Eric Foner writes that the Klan was “…a military force serving the interests of the Democratic Party…” Foner, “Reconstruction: America’s Unfinished Revolution, 1863-1877,” p. 425​

--- I see she's even descended to placing the term "liberal" in front of his name as a way to try to lend the misquote "credence".

--- the part she continues to leave out though, and she's been called on it before, is the phrase "in effect" which is what the ellipsis at the beginning obscures. She can't avoid "serving the interests of" although it's only a matter of time before she edits this into:

Liberal historian Eric Foner writes that the Klan was “…a military force serving the interests of the Democratic Party…”​

--- and replaces that with another ellipsis.

What Foner is describing is a correlation that the poster dishonestly tries to portray as a composition, in order to arrive at her historically disprovable theory that "the Democrats started the Klan", which in turn serves her greater Composition Fallacy of polarization that this whole thread is about. It means that what the Klan does in ousting the Republican Party aligns with the interests of a rival party which like all parties wants control. It does not mean the latter therefore created the former.

For an analogy, if the St. Louis Cardinals defeat the Milwaukee Brewers, it serves the interests of the Chicago Cubs. It would be insane to then infer that "therefore the Chicago Cubs created the St. Louis Cardinals". Yet this is the stretch to which PC and her revisionist ilk would have us suspend reality.

IN that reality the Klan was actually created as an innocuous social club with no political (or racial) point by six ex-soldiers who were bored, none of which had any known political history or affiliation. That's why it has all the silly K-alliterations of "kleagles" and "klaverns" etc. You don't play around with alliteration if your purpose is as serious as terrorism. Obviously the klub's purpose didn't stay that way; it was taken over by "night rider/slave patrol" elements and general white supremacy elements, that had already existed in the South since at least the 18th century long before a United States or any political parties existed around them. These same elements simultaneously populated dozens of other similar regional groups like the White League and the Knights of the White Camellia and many others ---- this was a cultural artifact based on an extreme cultural conservatism, not a political machination. The Klan actually went out of its way to avoid political implications.

Here were two discrete dynamics; the white supremacy element resisting change to its supremacy through social control and/or terrorism; and the Democratic Party taking advantage of its resulting monopoly to aggregate its own power --- which is the one and only true function of poltical parties, ideologies being irrelevant inconveniences as demonstrated above.

It goes not unnoticed that the same fallacy-crowd that wants to conflate the cultural artifact of racism/white supremacy with a political party ---- seems to be the same fallacy-crowd that wants to conflate the cultural artifacts of FGM and "honor killing" with a religion. The same fallacy, employed to the same end--- spreading division through ignorance. Obviously they get a lot of practice.

And that's what this thread is here for --- to call out that dishonest argument for the divisive destruction it is.

Really heartening to see how much the truth hurts you.
Made my day.

Now.....if only a liars pants actually burst into flames.

Aye, I knew you'd have no response. The vacuum. To quote Ross Perot, I hear a giant sucking sound.

I did respond....I pointed out that you're a liar.

nnnnnnnnnnnope. Nothing you posted refuted anything I said up there. At all. Gainsaying does not a refutation make.

Interesting you cite the History.com link, which states succinctly on the question of origins:

>> A group including many former Confederate veterans founded the first branch of the Ku Klux Klan as a social club in Pulaski, Tennessee, in 1866 <<​

--- which is exactly what I described up there in 1891, so it appears you're confirming my history, even though mine's more detailed (it was actually 1865, it was six vet soldiers, not 'many' and I've already listed each one's name as well as the address and circumstances where it took place earlier in this thread). And that's your own link.

Interesting also that you bring up Grant, who indeed did much to exterminate the (original) Klan. And exterminated it stayed, until William J. "Colonel Joe" Simmons, a con artist, salesman (sorry, redundant), defrocked Methodist minster and opportunist with (again) no political affiliation or intentions, revived it in 1915, mostly to line his own pockets with membership fees exploiting the racism, xenophobia and general bigotry of the time. That Klan, which cancerously grew far bigger and far more widespread than the original one, also got Republicans elected from Maine to the west coast, including virtually the entire state of Indiana.

And the first POTUS to prosecute that Klan was --- Lyndon Johnson. And the Georgia governor who revoked its state charter was Ellis Arnall. And the POTUS whose IRS Arnall worked with to shoot the legs out from under the Klan's organization by handing it a staggering back-tax bill was FDR. And the Alabama governor who signed an anti-masking bill into state law (recently invoked in Antifa actions) was Jim Folsom. And the Oklahoma Gov who tried to drive the Klan out of that state after the Tulsa Race Riots -- and got removed from office at the hands of the KKK in retaliation --- was Jack Walton. And the Alabama Senator who vociferously called out the Klan, causing the KKK to lobby against his 1924 Presidential candidacy was Oscar Underwood. And the Florida Governor and Senator candidate who infiltrated the Klan, wrote an exposé book about it and later worked with the writers of the Superman radio show to make the Klan into a mockery was Stetson Kennedy.

Guess what political party all of those people were part of. I gives you a hint --- it was not the Whigs.

So much for Composition Fallacies. Unless of course you'd like me to go into the Rice Meanses and the George Bakers and the Owen Brewsters and the Ed Jacksons and the D.C. Stephensons and the Clarence Morleys. But maybe you do --- I don't know exactly how deeply your masochistic streak runs.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Keep digging.

You're still completely and I'm sure deliberately avoiding the actual point

You realize, don't you, that those people who came south to help register people to vote were northern liberals?

So....the best you can do is claim that Democrats kill their own?

Did you vote for Democrat/racist/KKK supporter Bill Clinton?

a. Governor Clinton was among three state officials the NAACP sued in 1989 under the federal Voting Rights Act of 1965. “Plaintiffs offered plenty of proof of monolithic voting along racial lines, intimidation of black voters and candidates and other official acts that made voting harder for blacks,” the Arkansas Gazette reported December 6, 1989.


b. Bill Clinton wrote his first letter, dated June 21, 1994, of congratulations to the UDC [Untied Daughters of the Confederacy] celebrating their 100th anniversary. Later Clinton wrote a letter September 8, 1994 letter of congratulation to the Georgia Division of the UDC celebrating their 100th anniversary, then August 9, 1995 welcoming to Washington, D.C. for their 1995 national convention. Each letter was given a full page with Clinton’s picture in the United Daughters of the Confederacy Magazine (UDC Magazine) giving legitimacy to the UDC.

For reference, the UDC magazine includes " a Ku Klux Klan praising book, not just the Klan of Reconstruction but the Klan of the 1920s, a book which recommends the racist books of Thomas Dixon, “The Clansman” ...
Anti-Neo-Confederate: Bill Clinton Enables Neo-Confederates & Betrays Carol Moseley-Braun: UPDATED



Aren't you gonna thank me for educating you?

 

[PoliticalChic]

A fascinating bit of historical digression but one that completely avoided the issue ....waiting on your evidence showing the southern Dems were flaming leftists who magically became staunch rightwingers when the Republican took political control of the south...until then, wipe the custard off your face.

It's also cherrypicked bullshit that's been trotted out and shot down before, which is always .... messy.

The South culturally/ideologically has never been anywhere near the "left" or anything but "conservative". At the same time the same South was for 99 years after the Civil War staunchly Democratic Party in politics. These two facts are in no way contradictory; to try to use the latter to negate and even reverse the former is blatant dishonesty. And it depends on the cult-of-ignorance fallacy idea that "Democrat" or "Republican" or any political party, mean the same thing ideologically that they meant 150 years ago, which requires the self-delusion that such entities are somehow unaffected by changing times and their own changing self-interests and stand ideologically fixed and unmoving --- which is absurd.

Examples of why the South being at once conservative and Democratic for 99 years abound.

• George Wallace (Democrat) constantly raining against "Liberals" and then running against the Democrat candidate with a third party.
  
• Zell Miller (Democrat to this day) railing against John Kerry at the other party's convention
  
• Strom Thurmond and a coterie of fellow-traveler racists walking out of the party convention in 1948 and then running against the Democrat candidate (and nearly succeeding)
• Even back as far as 1860, Southern Democrats pulling the same thing as 1948, disrupting the convention, running its own candidate and pushing the Democratic nominee down to fourth place in the election

This self-strangling theory also purports to presume that people join or work with political parties for ideological reasons only rather than practical ones, which again ignores history. The (white) South went Democratic for 99 years not out of any ideological affinity with that party --- see the abundant conflicts as noted above ---but out of sheer historical emotion, the idea of associating with the Party of Lincoln, the man who had defeated and humiliated it, being unthinkable. "Republican" was in effect a dirty word; the Republican Party did not exist in the South before or during the War (Lincoln's name never appeared on a ballot in the South), and therefore its only association FOR the (white) South was as an invading/occupying army that wanted to dictate its fate from the North.

THAT is why the white South resisted the existence of "Republican" in ways as mild as shunning its candidates at the polls and as extreme as the terrorism committed by the Klan and literally dozens of other similar vigilante groups of various degrees of organization. These were insurgents resisting what they viewed as an overreaching federal government occupation --- nothing to do with political party ideologies, which indeed that same white South had already rejected in 1860.

The poster (PC) once again misquotes the historian's line, to wit:

Liberal historian Eric Foner writes that the Klan was “…a military force serving the interests of the Democratic Party…” Foner, “Reconstruction: America’s Unfinished Revolution, 1863-1877,” p. 425​

--- I see she's even descended to placing the term "liberal" in front of his name as a way to try to lend the misquote "credence".

--- the part she continues to leave out though, and she's been called on it before, is the phrase "in effect" which is what the ellipsis at the beginning obscures. She can't avoid "serving the interests of" although it's only a matter of time before she edits this into:

Liberal historian Eric Foner writes that the Klan was “…a military force serving the interests of the Democratic Party…”​

--- and replaces that with another ellipsis.

What Foner is describing is a correlation that the poster dishonestly tries to portray as a composition, in order to arrive at her historically disprovable theory that "the Democrats started the Klan", which in turn serves her greater Composition Fallacy of polarization that this whole thread is about. It means that what the Klan does in ousting the Republican Party aligns with the interests of a rival party which like all parties wants control. It does not mean the latter therefore created the former.

For an analogy, if the St. Louis Cardinals defeat the Milwaukee Brewers, it serves the interests of the Chicago Cubs. It would be insane to then infer that "therefore the Chicago Cubs created the St. Louis Cardinals". Yet this is the stretch to which PC and her revisionist ilk would have us suspend reality.

IN that reality the Klan was actually created as an innocuous social club with no political (or racial) point by six ex-soldiers who were bored, none of which had any known political history or affiliation. That's why it has all the silly K-alliterations of "kleagles" and "klaverns" etc. You don't play around with alliteration if your purpose is as serious as terrorism. Obviously the klub's purpose didn't stay that way; it was taken over by "night rider/slave patrol" elements and general white supremacy elements, that had already existed in the South since at least the 18th century long before a United States or any political parties existed around them. These same elements simultaneously populated dozens of other similar regional groups like the White League and the Knights of the White Camellia and many others ---- this was a cultural artifact based on an extreme cultural conservatism, not a political machination. The Klan actually went out of its way to avoid political implications.

Here were two discrete dynamics; the white supremacy element resisting change to its supremacy through social control and/or terrorism; and the Democratic Party taking advantage of its resulting monopoly to aggregate its own power --- which is the one and only true function of poltical parties, ideologies being irrelevant inconveniences as demonstrated above.

It goes not unnoticed that the same fallacy-crowd that wants to conflate the cultural artifact of racism/white supremacy with a political party ---- seems to be the same fallacy-crowd that wants to conflate the cultural artifacts of FGM and "honor killing" with a religion. The same fallacy, employed to the same end--- spreading division through ignorance. Obviously they get a lot of practice.

And that's what this thread is here for --- to call out that dishonest argument for the divisive destruction it is.

Really heartening to see how much the truth hurts you.
Made my day.

Now.....if only a liars pants actually burst into flames.

Aye, I knew you'd have no response. The vacuum. To quote Ross Perot, I hear a giant sucking sound.

I did respond....I pointed out that you're a liar.

nnnnnnnnnnnope. Nothing you posted refuted anything I said up there. At all. Gainsaying does not a refutation make.

Interesting you cite the History.com link, which states succinctly on the question of origins:

>> A group including many former Confederate veterans founded the first branch of the Ku Klux Klan as a social club in Pulaski, Tennessee, in 1866 <<​

--- which is exactly what I described up there in 1891, so it appears you're confirming my history, even though mine's more detailed (it was actually 1865, it was six vet soldiers, not 'many' and I've already listed each one's name as well as the address and circumstances where it took place earlier in this thread). And that's your own link.

Interesting also that you bring up Grant, who indeed did much to exterminate the (original) Klan. And exterminated it stayed, until William J. "Colonel Joe" Simmons, a con artist, salesman (sorry, redundant), defrocked Methodist minster and opportunist with (again) no political affiliation or intentions, revived it in 1915, mostly to line his own pockets with membership fees exploiting the racism, xenophobia and general bigotry of the time. That Klan, which cancerously grew far bigger and far more widespread than the original one, also got Republicans elected from Maine to the west coast, including virtually the entire state of Indiana.

And the first POTUS to prosecute that Klan was --- Lyndon Johnson. And the Georgia governor who revoked its state charter was Ellis Arnall. And the POTUS whose IRS Arnall worked with to shoot the legs out from under the Klan's organization by handing it a staggering back-tax bill was FDR. And the Alabama governor who signed an anti-masking bill into state law (recently invoked in Antifa actions) was Jim Folsom. And the Oklahoma Gov who tried to drive the Klan out of that state after the Tulsa Race Riots -- and got removed from office at the hands of the KKK in retaliation --- was Jack Walton. And the Alabama Senator who vociferously called out the Klan, causing the KKK to lobby against his 1924 Presidential candidacy was Oscar Underwood. And the Florida Governor and Senator candidate who infiltrated the Klan, wrote an exposé book about it and later worked with the writers of the Superman radio show to make the Klan into a mockery was Stetson Kennedy.

Guess what political party all of those people were part of. I gives you a hint --- it was not the Whigs.

So much for Composition Fallacies. Unless of course you'd like me to go into the Rice Meanses and the George Bakers and the Owen Brewsters and the Ed Jacksons and the D.C. Stephensons and the Clarence Morleys. But maybe you do --- I don't know exactly how deeply your masochistic streak runs.

Stop lying.

 

[Uncensored2008]

[
Once you start invoking Nazi comparisons to modern american political figures or politics you've lost credability if not the argument. People do the use it to talk about economics. They use to invoke genocidal ideologies as you well know.

So "you lie" is right in your mind. And justifies rude. Eh a I or towards the president. Do any that to Trump as well?

Why?

You progressives are virtually identical to the Nazi movement in the early and mid-1920's. Your use of Brown Shirts to riot and intimidate those you hate, your use of names like "homophobe, tea bagger, christian" and the rest of what you term those whom your part so desperately hates. Your demand for total government control of every aspect of the lives of people, what they eat, drive, smoke (tobacco, you love your pot). The way you silence dissent from any who dare disagree with the party through riots and open assault along with expulsion from schools and jobs should the Juden think or say things you don't allow.

You ARE indeed Nazis, it is simple fact. Own what it is you are.

 

[Coyote]

[
Once you start invoking Nazi comparisons to modern american political figures or politics you've lost credability if not the argument. People do the use it to talk about economics. They use to invoke genocidal ideologies as you well know.

So "you lie" is right in your mind. And justifies rude. Eh a I or towards the president. Do any that to Trump as well?

Why?

You progressives are virtually identical to the Nazi movement in the early and mid-1920's. Your use of Brown Shirts to riot and intimidate those you hate, your use of names like "homophobe, tea bagger, christian" and the rest of what you term those whom your part so desperately hates. Your demand for total government control of every aspect of the lives of people, what they eat, drive, smoke (tobacco, you love your pot). The way you silence dissent from any who dare disagree with the party through riots and open assault along with expulsion from schools and jobs should the Juden think or say things you don't allow.

You ARE indeed Nazis, it is simple fact. Own what it is you are.

If you really think so, you are either ignorant of history or such a snowflake you can't distinguish name calling from concentration camps.

There is no modern political party or mainstream ideology that is remotely like the Nazi's. Not even you rightwing loons. Get a grip.

 

[Pogo]

Keep digging.

You're still completely and I'm sure deliberately avoiding the actual point

You realize, don't you, that those people who came south to help register people to vote were northern liberals?

Indeed they were. Some of my older friends were among them including one who was a longtime friend of Pete Seeger. Pete famously had an inscription on the headstock of his banjo which read "this machine surrounds hate and forces it to surrender". We miss his spirit.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Even the WaPo....the Democrat house organ....while it would love to deny the facts......can't.


"Although there is some historical link between Democrats and the KKK, to say that the hate group was founded by the Democratic Party is misleading, J. Michael Martinez, author of “Carpetbaggers, Cavalry and the KKK,” told PolitiFact. Angry Southern whites during the 1860s and 1870s were Democrats, and some of them joined the KKK, which was more of a grass-roots creation.

Members of the KKK in the South acted as a “strong arm” for Democratic politicians during the Reconstruction Era, and Confederate Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest, who was associated with the KKK, spoke at the 1868 Democratic National Convention, Carole Emberton, an associate professor of history at the University of Buffalo, told PolitiFact." Ted Cruz: ‘The Democrats are the party of the Ku Klux Klan’




Funny that they quote another Democrat house organ....Politifact.

"The Tampa Bay Times, which produces the PolitFact Truth-o-Meter, has not endorsed a single Republican candidate this century for any of the three most important positions on the Florida election ballot. Accordingly, the Times scores a “Pants on Fire” for its lack of objectivity, according to an extensive analysis by Media Trackers Florida.

Since 2000, the Times has issued 10 endorsements in elections for U.S. President, U.S. Senate, and Florida Governor. Nine of the 10 endorsements went to Democrats, with the sole exception being theTimes’ endorsement of Democrat-leaning Independent Charlie Crist in the 2010 U.S. Senate contest." PolitiFact Parent Tampa Bay Times Scores ‘Pants on Fire’ for Partisan Bias - Media Trackers



Yet both admit the marriage of the Democrats and the KKK

 

[Pogo]

It's also cherrypicked bullshit that's been trotted out and shot down before, which is always .... messy.

The South culturally/ideologically has never been anywhere near the "left" or anything but "conservative". At the same time the same South was for 99 years after the Civil War staunchly Democratic Party in politics. These two facts are in no way contradictory; to try to use the latter to negate and even reverse the former is blatant dishonesty. And it depends on the cult-of-ignorance fallacy idea that "Democrat" or "Republican" or any political party, mean the same thing ideologically that they meant 150 years ago, which requires the self-delusion that such entities are somehow unaffected by changing times and their own changing self-interests and stand ideologically fixed and unmoving --- which is absurd.

Examples of why the South being at once conservative and Democratic for 99 years abound.

• George Wallace (Democrat) constantly raining against "Liberals" and then running against the Democrat candidate with a third party.
  
• Zell Miller (Democrat to this day) railing against John Kerry at the other party's convention
  
• Strom Thurmond and a coterie of fellow-traveler racists walking out of the party convention in 1948 and then running against the Democrat candidate (and nearly succeeding)
• Even back as far as 1860, Southern Democrats pulling the same thing as 1948, disrupting the convention, running its own candidate and pushing the Democratic nominee down to fourth place in the election

This self-strangling theory also purports to presume that people join or work with political parties for ideological reasons only rather than practical ones, which again ignores history. The (white) South went Democratic for 99 years not out of any ideological affinity with that party --- see the abundant conflicts as noted above ---but out of sheer historical emotion, the idea of associating with the Party of Lincoln, the man who had defeated and humiliated it, being unthinkable. "Republican" was in effect a dirty word; the Republican Party did not exist in the South before or during the War (Lincoln's name never appeared on a ballot in the South), and therefore its only association FOR the (white) South was as an invading/occupying army that wanted to dictate its fate from the North.

THAT is why the white South resisted the existence of "Republican" in ways as mild as shunning its candidates at the polls and as extreme as the terrorism committed by the Klan and literally dozens of other similar vigilante groups of various degrees of organization. These were insurgents resisting what they viewed as an overreaching federal government occupation --- nothing to do with political party ideologies, which indeed that same white South had already rejected in 1860.

The poster (PC) once again misquotes the historian's line, to wit:

Liberal historian Eric Foner writes that the Klan was “…a military force serving the interests of the Democratic Party…” Foner, “Reconstruction: America’s Unfinished Revolution, 1863-1877,” p. 425​

--- I see she's even descended to placing the term "liberal" in front of his name as a way to try to lend the misquote "credence".

--- the part she continues to leave out though, and she's been called on it before, is the phrase "in effect" which is what the ellipsis at the beginning obscures. She can't avoid "serving the interests of" although it's only a matter of time before she edits this into:

Liberal historian Eric Foner writes that the Klan was “…a military force serving the interests of the Democratic Party…”​

--- and replaces that with another ellipsis.

What Foner is describing is a correlation that the poster dishonestly tries to portray as a composition, in order to arrive at her historically disprovable theory that "the Democrats started the Klan", which in turn serves her greater Composition Fallacy of polarization that this whole thread is about. It means that what the Klan does in ousting the Republican Party aligns with the interests of a rival party which like all parties wants control. It does not mean the latter therefore created the former.

For an analogy, if the St. Louis Cardinals defeat the Milwaukee Brewers, it serves the interests of the Chicago Cubs. It would be insane to then infer that "therefore the Chicago Cubs created the St. Louis Cardinals". Yet this is the stretch to which PC and her revisionist ilk would have us suspend reality.

IN that reality the Klan was actually created as an innocuous social club with no political (or racial) point by six ex-soldiers who were bored, none of which had any known political history or affiliation. That's why it has all the silly K-alliterations of "kleagles" and "klaverns" etc. You don't play around with alliteration if your purpose is as serious as terrorism. Obviously the klub's purpose didn't stay that way; it was taken over by "night rider/slave patrol" elements and general white supremacy elements, that had already existed in the South since at least the 18th century long before a United States or any political parties existed around them. These same elements simultaneously populated dozens of other similar regional groups like the White League and the Knights of the White Camellia and many others ---- this was a cultural artifact based on an extreme cultural conservatism, not a political machination. The Klan actually went out of its way to avoid political implications.

Here were two discrete dynamics; the white supremacy element resisting change to its supremacy through social control and/or terrorism; and the Democratic Party taking advantage of its resulting monopoly to aggregate its own power --- which is the one and only true function of poltical parties, ideologies being irrelevant inconveniences as demonstrated above.

It goes not unnoticed that the same fallacy-crowd that wants to conflate the cultural artifact of racism/white supremacy with a political party ---- seems to be the same fallacy-crowd that wants to conflate the cultural artifacts of FGM and "honor killing" with a religion. The same fallacy, employed to the same end--- spreading division through ignorance. Obviously they get a lot of practice.

And that's what this thread is here for --- to call out that dishonest argument for the divisive destruction it is.

Really heartening to see how much the truth hurts you.
Made my day.

Now.....if only a liars pants actually burst into flames.

Aye, I knew you'd have no response. The vacuum. To quote Ross Perot, I hear a giant sucking sound.

I did respond....I pointed out that you're a liar.

nnnnnnnnnnnope. Nothing you posted refuted anything I said up there. At all. Gainsaying does not a refutation make.

Interesting you cite the History.com link, which states succinctly on the question of origins:

>> A group including many former Confederate veterans founded the first branch of the Ku Klux Klan as a social club in Pulaski, Tennessee, in 1866 <<​

--- which is exactly what I described up there in 1891, so it appears you're confirming my history, even though mine's more detailed (it was actually 1865, it was six vet soldiers, not 'many' and I've already listed each one's name as well as the address and circumstances where it took place earlier in this thread). And that's your own link.

Interesting also that you bring up Grant, who indeed did much to exterminate the (original) Klan. And exterminated it stayed, until William J. "Colonel Joe" Simmons, a con artist, salesman (sorry, redundant), defrocked Methodist minster and opportunist with (again) no political affiliation or intentions, revived it in 1915, mostly to line his own pockets with membership fees exploiting the racism, xenophobia and general bigotry of the time. That Klan, which cancerously grew far bigger and far more widespread than the original one, also got Republicans elected from Maine to the west coast, including virtually the entire state of Indiana.

And the first POTUS to prosecute that Klan was --- Lyndon Johnson. And the Georgia governor who revoked its state charter was Ellis Arnall. And the POTUS whose IRS Arnall worked with to shoot the legs out from under the Klan's organization by handing it a staggering back-tax bill was FDR. And the Alabama governor who signed an anti-masking bill into state law (recently invoked in Antifa actions) was Jim Folsom. And the Oklahoma Gov who tried to drive the Klan out of that state after the Tulsa Race Riots -- and got removed from office at the hands of the KKK in retaliation --- was Jack Walton. And the Alabama Senator who vociferously called out the Klan, causing the KKK to lobby against his 1924 Presidential candidacy was Oscar Underwood. And the Florida Governor and Senator candidate who infiltrated the Klan, wrote an exposé book about it and later worked with the writers of the Superman radio show to make the Klan into a mockery was Stetson Kennedy.

Guess what political party all of those people were part of. I gives you a hint --- it was not the Whigs.

So much for Composition Fallacies. Unless of course you'd like me to go into the Rice Meanses and the George Bakers and the Owen Brewsters and the Ed Jacksons and the D.C. Stephensons and the Clarence Morleys. But maybe you do --- I don't know exactly how deeply your masochistic streak runs.

Stop lying.

Stop running.

Go ahead --- challenge me. Just TRY to refute any part of that history at all. And there's plenty more detail where that came from. Fair warning.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Really heartening to see how much the truth hurts you.
Made my day.

Now.....if only a liars pants actually burst into flames.

Aye, I knew you'd have no response. The vacuum. To quote Ross Perot, I hear a giant sucking sound.

I did respond....I pointed out that you're a liar.

nnnnnnnnnnnope. Nothing you posted refuted anything I said up there. At all. Gainsaying does not a refutation make.

Interesting you cite the History.com link, which states succinctly on the question of origins:

>> A group including many former Confederate veterans founded the first branch of the Ku Klux Klan as a social club in Pulaski, Tennessee, in 1866 <<​

--- which is exactly what I described up there in 1891, so it appears you're confirming my history, even though mine's more detailed (it was actually 1865, it was six vet soldiers, not 'many' and I've already listed each one's name as well as the address and circumstances where it took place earlier in this thread). And that's your own link.

Interesting also that you bring up Grant, who indeed did much to exterminate the (original) Klan. And exterminated it stayed, until William J. "Colonel Joe" Simmons, a con artist, salesman (sorry, redundant), defrocked Methodist minster and opportunist with (again) no political affiliation or intentions, revived it in 1915, mostly to line his own pockets with membership fees exploiting the racism, xenophobia and general bigotry of the time. That Klan, which cancerously grew far bigger and far more widespread than the original one, also got Republicans elected from Maine to the west coast, including virtually the entire state of Indiana.

And the first POTUS to prosecute that Klan was --- Lyndon Johnson. And the Georgia governor who revoked its state charter was Ellis Arnall. And the POTUS whose IRS Arnall worked with to shoot the legs out from under the Klan's organization by handing it a staggering back-tax bill was FDR. And the Alabama governor who signed an anti-masking bill into state law (recently invoked in Antifa actions) was Jim Folsom. And the Oklahoma Gov who tried to drive the Klan out of that state after the Tulsa Race Riots -- and got removed from office at the hands of the KKK in retaliation --- was Jack Walton. And the Alabama Senator who vociferously called out the Klan, causing the KKK to lobby against his 1924 Presidential candidacy was Oscar Underwood. And the Florida Governor and Senator candidate who infiltrated the Klan, wrote an exposé book about it and later worked with the writers of the Superman radio show to make the Klan into a mockery was Stetson Kennedy.

Guess what political party all of those people were part of. I gives you a hint --- it was not the Whigs.

So much for Composition Fallacies. Unless of course you'd like me to go into the Rice Meanses and the George Bakers and the Owen Brewsters and the Ed Jacksons and the D.C. Stephensons and the Clarence Morleys. But maybe you do --- I don't know exactly how deeply your masochistic streak runs.

Stop lying.

Stop running.

Go ahead --- challenge me. Just TRY to refute any part of that history at all. And there's plenty more detail where that came from. Fair warning.

Running?


I've eviscerated you, old timer.

Bet you have those cardiac paddles handy when you read my posts.

 

[Coyote]

Keep digging.

You're still completely and I'm sure deliberately avoiding the actual point

You realize, don't you, that those people who came south to help register people to vote were northern liberals?

Indeed they were. Some of my older friends were among them including one who was a longtime friend of Pete Seeger. Pete famously had an inscription on the headstock of his banjo which read "this machine surrounds hate and forces it to surrender". We miss his spirit.

Pete Seeger was one of my heros...I saw him and Arlo Guthrie in concert several times....I'll never forget it

 

[PoliticalChic]

Keep digging.

You're still completely and I'm sure deliberately avoiding the actual point

You realize, don't you, that those people who came south to help register people to vote were northern liberals?

Indeed they were. Some of my older friends were among them including one who was a longtime friend of Pete Seeger. Pete famously had an inscription on the headstock of his banjo which read "this machine surrounds hate and forces it to surrender". We miss his spirit.

Pete Seeger was one of my heros...I saw him and Arlo Guthrie in concert several times....I'll never forget it

Most outrageous post of the day was some imbecile claiming that the KKK slayings of the three civil rights workers was by Republicans!!!!


Oh...wait....that was you, wasn't it.

 

[Pogo]

Confederate Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest, who was associated with the KKK, spoke at the 1868 Democratic National Convention, Carole Emberton, an associate professor of history at the University of Buffalo, told PolitiFact." Ted Cruz: ‘The Democrats are the party of the Ku Klux Klan’

Yeah, Cruz is full of Crapola. What's more I understand his father shot JFK.

He's invited to refute my facts too, which he can't. There is no evidence that Capt. John C. Lester, Major James R. Crowe, Capt. John Kennedy, Calvin Jones, Richard R. Reed, Frank O. McCord (the founders of the first Klan) OR William Joseph Simmons (re-founder of the second one 50 years later) had any political affiliation. That's just bullshit spewed by a lackadaisical wag who couldn't be bothered to do his research.

And again -- from your own link:

>> In 2013, Virginia state Sen. Stephen Martin said that the Democratic Party created the hate group. Martin later released a statement saying he “regretted the carelessness and inaccuracy of his comments". <<​

YOUR OWN LINK.

Forrest, who did have a political affiliation as well as a famous name, was recruited in absentia to be its figurehead in 1867. He wasn't even present. His first (and only) General Order Number One issued in January 1869 officially dissolved the organization and ordered its robes and various regalia to be destroyed. Apparently Forrest was alarmed by the violent element which I already alluded to. Needless to say this General Order was largely ignored, necessitating Grant's actions in the next decade.

Them's the facts, like 'em or lump 'em or, if you like, dance around them with a chicken on your head, but they ain't going nowhere.

 

[Pogo]

Keep digging.

You're still completely and I'm sure deliberately avoiding the actual point

You realize, don't you, that those people who came south to help register people to vote were northern liberals?

Indeed they were. Some of my older friends were among them including one who was a longtime friend of Pete Seeger. Pete famously had an inscription on the headstock of his banjo which read "this machine surrounds hate and forces it to surrender". We miss his spirit.

Pete Seeger was one of my heros...I saw him and Arlo Guthrie in concert several times....I'll never forget it

Arlo was there at Pete's deathbed. And of course his father Woody's "this machine kills fascists" on his guitar was the inspiration for Pete's inscription.

 

[Pogo]

Keep digging.

You're still completely and I'm sure deliberately avoiding the actual point

You realize, don't you, that those people who came south to help register people to vote were northern liberals?

Indeed they were. Some of my older friends were among them including one who was a longtime friend of Pete Seeger. Pete famously had an inscription on the headstock of his banjo which read "this machine surrounds hate and forces it to surrender". We miss his spirit.

Pete Seeger was one of my heros...I saw him and Arlo Guthrie in concert several times....I'll never forget it

Most outrageous post of the day was some imbecile claiming that the KKK slayings of the three civil rights workers was by Republicans!!!!


Oh...wait....that was you, wasn't it.

-------------- link?

 

[numan]

Seriously. This toxic partisan political culture is poisoning civil society.

What the hell is wrong with us?

The left and the right pulling hair and screeching their bumpersticker slogans and broad brush pig ignorant partisan blamegaming? What's wrong with us?

I'm no youngster. I've never seen such a dangerous ambient.

We have someone shooting at one of our few remaining bipartisan non political fun charitable events because he wants to kill a bunch of (insert political party).

The rhetoric flooding the country is poisoning us. And no one wants to take responsibility for stepping up and saying "enough already". For changing it.

Like most Americans, you are not aware of some basic facts of the modern world.

The present oligarch ruling class of the world make much of their money by fomenting wars, making vast profits by their ownership of the War Industries, and then making more vast profits from the rebuilding of the shattered countries and their societies.

Heretofore, many people in the United States have benefited from this War Machine, but now the turn of the United States has come to be destroyed. All the chaos that has resulted from 9/11 has been building up to create civil war in the USA, and people here are too stupid to see that what has happened in so many other countries is going to happen here.
.

 

[Coyote]

Keep digging.

You're still completely and I'm sure deliberately avoiding the actual point

You realize, don't you, that those people who came south to help register people to vote were northern liberals?

Indeed they were. Some of my older friends were among them including one who was a longtime friend of Pete Seeger. Pete famously had an inscription on the headstock of his banjo which read "this machine surrounds hate and forces it to surrender". We miss his spirit.

Pete Seeger was one of my heros...I saw him and Arlo Guthrie in concert several times....I'll never forget it

Most outrageous post of the day was some imbecile claiming that the KKK slayings of the three civil rights workers was by Republicans!!!!


Oh...wait....that was you, wasn't it.

-------------- link?

PC is getting frantic .... and I'm out of popcorn...I hope she brought some more.