Honestly I like Bernie; Students should study for free

[Cecilie1200]

Nobody gets a free lunch in life.

Period.

To be fair, not having to pay tuition does not necessarily mean that the student has not worked hard or will not work hard. It just means it's much more affordable for people to be able to get a higher education and try to make a better life for themselves and their future family.

To be fair, it makes it more likely that they won't work hard and/or won't choose something relevant and useful.

And "more affordable" isn't a winning argument when what you actually mean is "more affordable for THEM by shifting the cost to YOU". Their "better life for themselves and their future family" is not MY problem, especially at the cost of MY better life for my CURRENT family.

I would disagree that they wouldn't work hard because the way higher eduction is currently set up in this country does not have to stay that way, it can change, it can be reimagined. Take our current educational system and the route a student has to choose as they navigate through high school. It's either graduate from high school and take out a huge loan for college (if you aren't lucky enough to have parents that can help) to study something that you haven't really decided on yet to hopefully then get a job with four years later OR you put college off to go get a job in which every year that goes by the likelihood of going back to college reduces significantly. So realistically it's either do what's expected, which is go to college, but put yourself in debt or you don't go to college and begin working but with the knowledge that your future could be limited without a degree. Now sure there are potential alternatives but for the most part this is the choice most teenagers are faced with.

What I am saying is that we should look at the educational system in this country and instead of building off of what we have and accepting that as they way it is we should look at the system and determine if this is really the best we can do. Is this really the only way it can work. In my opinion our system needs to be redesigned to make sure that the decision made at 18 years old isn't a life changing event but a stepping stone to a more sustainable future.

So for me I would make it so that graduating high school immediately qualifies you for either college or a vocational trade school in which it's the students choice which direction they want to go based off of their interests. If you want to be a welder you can go to the vocational school and learn to be a welder. If you want to be a biologist or a math teacher then you can go to college and study to be a biologist or a math teacher. If you want to go into a field that requires more educational investment like medical school or law school then your grades in high school would qualify you for those specific routes. If you didn't have the grades in high school then you could then qualify for medical school after the completion of a designated amount of years of college with a good GPA. Just a thought, it could vary.

As for costs for the student they would pay semester fees for things like room & board, books, recreation, food, and things like that on campus, a few hundred dollars per semester basically, but there wouldn't be a traditional tuition. Graduation qualifies you for college or trade school, your grades in high school qualify you for specific types of schools, and your interests help you determine the route. Get rid of two years of unnecessary classes and other inefficiencies that burden students and cause a lengthier stay in college and educate based on what the student is there for in my opinion.

That's an awful lot of words to say, "I don't want to change anything except to have someone else pay for me to have it."

It was a lot of words yes but if you read them you would have seen that I want to change quite a few things.

Read them, and the only thing that would be an actual change is that you get to mooch off of other people for what you want. High school graduation already does qualify you to go on to whatever type of further education you want; only difference is that right now it's YOUR responsibility to provide for it.

I do appreciate your "generous" agreement to allow us to charge the student himself for everyday stuff, though. Very kind of you not to require us to spoonfeed and burp the helpless little darlings.

 

[bripat9643]

Public education is already "free" for k-12 and so it's reasonable in my personal opinion for pre-k as well as public universities to be part of that guarantee. That being said just because the university may not have a tuition requirement anymore does not mean that fees and other expenses would not still apply. Semester fees for example could go towards part of the student life experiences on campus along with other things such as books, recreation, and other on-campus amenities. The only differences would be that the semester fees would not become crippling debt.

Why is that reasonable? It's not even reasonable for the government to pay for K-12.

I would disagree that it’s not reasonable. I view it as much more unreasonable to expect millions of families to have to pay for education from kindergarten through high school. It would result in a very high percentage of uneducated children and an even more divided class system in my opinion. A sensible approach would be to ensure equal access to education. It’s in the best interest of our country’s future in my opinion.

Of course you believe it's reasonable. That's why you are a leftist. In other words, someone whose demands are absurd.

What's reasonable about looting people to pay for what other want? How did any of these people earn a free education? What's reasonable about robbing Peter to pay Paul?

Your delusions about the supposed benefits free college have never been born out by experience. All it does is transfer the cost of training from the employer to the government. When you mass produce education, all you do is dilute the value of an diploma. Now 4 years of college is little better than a high school education used to be.

I could rip on this idiocy all day, but that's all I have time for at the moment.

 

[Grace Is Stoked]

To be fair, not having to pay tuition does not necessarily mean that the student has not worked hard or will not work hard. It just means it's much more affordable for people to be able to get a higher education and try to make a better life for themselves and their future family.

To be fair, it makes it more likely that they won't work hard and/or won't choose something relevant and useful.

And "more affordable" isn't a winning argument when what you actually mean is "more affordable for THEM by shifting the cost to YOU". Their "better life for themselves and their future family" is not MY problem, especially at the cost of MY better life for my CURRENT family.

I would disagree that they wouldn't work hard because the way higher eduction is currently set up in this country does not have to stay that way, it can change, it can be reimagined. Take our current educational system and the route a student has to choose as they navigate through high school. It's either graduate from high school and take out a huge loan for college (if you aren't lucky enough to have parents that can help) to study something that you haven't really decided on yet to hopefully then get a job with four years later OR you put college off to go get a job in which every year that goes by the likelihood of going back to college reduces significantly. So realistically it's either do what's expected, which is go to college, but put yourself in debt or you don't go to college and begin working but with the knowledge that your future could be limited without a degree. Now sure there are potential alternatives but for the most part this is the choice most teenagers are faced with.

What I am saying is that we should look at the educational system in this country and instead of building off of what we have and accepting that as they way it is we should look at the system and determine if this is really the best we can do. Is this really the only way it can work. In my opinion our system needs to be redesigned to make sure that the decision made at 18 years old isn't a life changing event but a stepping stone to a more sustainable future.

So for me I would make it so that graduating high school immediately qualifies you for either college or a vocational trade school in which it's the students choice which direction they want to go based off of their interests. If you want to be a welder you can go to the vocational school and learn to be a welder. If you want to be a biologist or a math teacher then you can go to college and study to be a biologist or a math teacher. If you want to go into a field that requires more educational investment like medical school or law school then your grades in high school would qualify you for those specific routes. If you didn't have the grades in high school then you could then qualify for medical school after the completion of a designated amount of years of college with a good GPA. Just a thought, it could vary.

As for costs for the student they would pay semester fees for things like room & board, books, recreation, food, and things like that on campus, a few hundred dollars per semester basically, but there wouldn't be a traditional tuition. Graduation qualifies you for college or trade school, your grades in high school qualify you for specific types of schools, and your interests help you determine the route. Get rid of two years of unnecessary classes and other inefficiencies that burden students and cause a lengthier stay in college and educate based on what the student is there for in my opinion.

That's an awful lot of words to say, "I don't want to change anything except to have someone else pay for me to have it."

It was a lot of words yes but if you read them you would have seen that I want to change quite a few things.

Read them, and the only thing that would be an actual change is that you get to mooch off of other people for what you want. High school graduation already does qualify you to go on to whatever type of further education you want; only difference is that right now it's YOUR responsibility to provide for it.

I do appreciate your "generous" agreement to allow us to charge the student himself for everyday stuff, though. Very kind of you not to require us to spoonfeed and burp the helpless little darlings.

Well no based on what I laid out the structure as whole would change, in my opinion, to a more efficient system with a clearer route to success for students as they choose their journey without fear of long term debt. Your work ethic in school is certainly your responsibility but the cost for higher education as it stands right now is almost an irresponsible decision to undertake for millions of graduating high school seniors since the cost for that education could very well lead to massive debt and no real guarantee of a job in your field of choice. Gambling on the futures of generations to come and the future of this country's intellectual power based on what they can and can't afford is not responsible in my opinion. It's not about being spoon fed. It's about securing a future for the next generation to be able to do the same for the next.

 

[Grace Is Stoked]

Public education is already "free" for k-12 and so it's reasonable in my personal opinion for pre-k as well as public universities to be part of that guarantee. That being said just because the university may not have a tuition requirement anymore does not mean that fees and other expenses would not still apply. Semester fees for example could go towards part of the student life experiences on campus along with other things such as books, recreation, and other on-campus amenities. The only differences would be that the semester fees would not become crippling debt.

Why is that reasonable? It's not even reasonable for the government to pay for K-12.

I would disagree that it’s not reasonable. I view it as much more unreasonable to expect millions of families to have to pay for education from kindergarten through high school. It would result in a very high percentage of uneducated children and an even more divided class system in my opinion. A sensible approach would be to ensure equal access to education. It’s in the best interest of our country’s future in my opinion.

Of course you believe it's reasonable. That's why you are a leftist. In other words, someone whose demands are absurd.

What's reasonable about looting people to pay for what other want? How did any of these people earn a free education? What's reasonable about robbing Peter to pay Paul?

Your delusions about the supposed benefits free college have never been born out by experience. All it does is transfer the cost of training from the employer to the government. When you mass produce education, all you do is dilute the value of an diploma. Now 4 years of college is little better than a high school education used to be.

I could rip on this idiocy all day, but that's all I have time for at the moment.

I don't see it as robbing Peter to pay Paul. It's an investment in your country's future. The kids currently in K-12 and the ones entering college are this country's future. An education isn't "earned" by how much money you have or that your parents have and are able to help you with. It's earned in the classroom and at home while studying and prepping for the next day in those classrooms.

When these potential students can't even have the chance to earn their college education because of tuition rates that are not only as high per year as many professional salaries are in this country but are increasing by 10% every year then a higher education is only attainable to a relatively small percentage of Americans. That's going to be debilitating for this country's future one day in my opinion when we have a knowledge gap larger than the current trade skills gap. Even if you take tuition cost out of the equation the structure that our school system is operating under and the structure of higher education is not only inefficient it's not producing the best out of our students.

Also from personal experience I have actually experienced an educational system similar to what I am proposing. I studied abroad for one year while I was in college. The experience I had was eye opening compared to when I returned back to the states. While I certainly value my college education and experience that I received here the system is/was still flawed in my opinion and could be better. Our system is far from perfect, and while no perfect system exists it doesn't mean that we should just accept what we have now as the norm and never show creativity towards improving it.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Public education is already "free" for k-12 and so it's reasonable in my personal opinion for pre-k as well as public universities to be part of that guarantee. That being said just because the university may not have a tuition requirement anymore does not mean that fees and other expenses would not still apply. Semester fees for example could go towards part of the student life experiences on campus along with other things such as books, recreation, and other on-campus amenities. The only differences would be that the semester fees would not become crippling debt.

Why is that reasonable? It's not even reasonable for the government to pay for K-12.

I would disagree that it’s not reasonable. I view it as much more unreasonable to expect millions of families to have to pay for education from kindergarten through high school. It would result in a very high percentage of uneducated children and an even more divided class system in my opinion. A sensible approach would be to ensure equal access to education. It’s in the best interest of our country’s future in my opinion.

Of course you believe it's reasonable. That's why you are a leftist. In other words, someone whose demands are absurd.

What's reasonable about looting people to pay for what other want? How did any of these people earn a free education? What's reasonable about robbing Peter to pay Paul?

Your delusions about the supposed benefits free college have never been born out by experience. All it does is transfer the cost of training from the employer to the government. When you mass produce education, all you do is dilute the value of an diploma. Now 4 years of college is little better than a high school education used to be.

I could rip on this idiocy all day, but that's all I have time for at the moment.

I don't see it as robbing Peter to pay Paul. It's an investment in your country's future. The kids currently in K-12 and the ones entering college are this country's future. An education isn't "earned" by how much money you have or that your parents have and are able to help you with. It's earned in the classroom and at home while studying and prepping for the next day in those classrooms.

When these potential students can't even have the chance to earn their college education because of tuition rates that are not only as high per year as many professional salaries are in this country but are increasing by 10% every year then a higher education is only attainable to a relatively small percentage of Americans. That's going to be debilitating for this country's future one day in my opinion when we have a knowledge gap larger than the current trade skills gap. Even if you take tuition cost out of the equation the structure that our school system is operating under and the structure of higher education is not only inefficient it's not producing the best out of our students.

Also from personal experience I have actually experienced an educational system similar to what I am proposing. I studied abroad for one year while I was in college. The experience I had was eye opening compared to when I returned back to the states. While I certainly value my college education and experience that I received here the system is/was still flawed in my opinion and could be better. Our system is far from perfect, and while no perfect system exists it doesn't mean that we should just accept what we have now as the norm and never show creativity towards improving it.

I don't see it as robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Excellent! How much more can we expect you to send to the IRS in April, to fund this investment
in the future of a better America?

 

[Cecilie1200]

To be fair, it makes it more likely that they won't work hard and/or won't choose something relevant and useful.

And "more affordable" isn't a winning argument when what you actually mean is "more affordable for THEM by shifting the cost to YOU". Their "better life for themselves and their future family" is not MY problem, especially at the cost of MY better life for my CURRENT family.

I would disagree that they wouldn't work hard because the way higher eduction is currently set up in this country does not have to stay that way, it can change, it can be reimagined. Take our current educational system and the route a student has to choose as they navigate through high school. It's either graduate from high school and take out a huge loan for college (if you aren't lucky enough to have parents that can help) to study something that you haven't really decided on yet to hopefully then get a job with four years later OR you put college off to go get a job in which every year that goes by the likelihood of going back to college reduces significantly. So realistically it's either do what's expected, which is go to college, but put yourself in debt or you don't go to college and begin working but with the knowledge that your future could be limited without a degree. Now sure there are potential alternatives but for the most part this is the choice most teenagers are faced with.

What I am saying is that we should look at the educational system in this country and instead of building off of what we have and accepting that as they way it is we should look at the system and determine if this is really the best we can do. Is this really the only way it can work. In my opinion our system needs to be redesigned to make sure that the decision made at 18 years old isn't a life changing event but a stepping stone to a more sustainable future.

So for me I would make it so that graduating high school immediately qualifies you for either college or a vocational trade school in which it's the students choice which direction they want to go based off of their interests. If you want to be a welder you can go to the vocational school and learn to be a welder. If you want to be a biologist or a math teacher then you can go to college and study to be a biologist or a math teacher. If you want to go into a field that requires more educational investment like medical school or law school then your grades in high school would qualify you for those specific routes. If you didn't have the grades in high school then you could then qualify for medical school after the completion of a designated amount of years of college with a good GPA. Just a thought, it could vary.

As for costs for the student they would pay semester fees for things like room & board, books, recreation, food, and things like that on campus, a few hundred dollars per semester basically, but there wouldn't be a traditional tuition. Graduation qualifies you for college or trade school, your grades in high school qualify you for specific types of schools, and your interests help you determine the route. Get rid of two years of unnecessary classes and other inefficiencies that burden students and cause a lengthier stay in college and educate based on what the student is there for in my opinion.

That's an awful lot of words to say, "I don't want to change anything except to have someone else pay for me to have it."

It was a lot of words yes but if you read them you would have seen that I want to change quite a few things.

Read them, and the only thing that would be an actual change is that you get to mooch off of other people for what you want. High school graduation already does qualify you to go on to whatever type of further education you want; only difference is that right now it's YOUR responsibility to provide for it.

I do appreciate your "generous" agreement to allow us to charge the student himself for everyday stuff, though. Very kind of you not to require us to spoonfeed and burp the helpless little darlings.

Well no based on what I laid out the structure as whole would change, in my opinion, to a more efficient system with a clearer route to success for students as they choose their journey without fear of long term debt. Your work ethic in school is certainly your responsibility but the cost for higher education as it stands right now is almost an irresponsible decision to undertake for millions of graduating high school seniors since the cost for that education could very well lead to massive debt and no real guarantee of a job in your field of choice. Gambling on the futures of generations to come and the future of this country's intellectual power based on what they can and can't afford is not responsible in my opinion. It's not about being spoon fed. It's about securing a future for the next generation to be able to do the same for the next.

No, what you laid out was your own lack of understanding about how the system works now, and how reality would affect your pie-in-the-sky "it would be so wonderful if I could have what I want at someone else's expense" plans.

Please understand that, while YOU have the intellect of an insect, humans in general are NOT an ant colony. We aren't a collective, and we don't function as a collective, and your adult life is of much less importance to me than your extreme self-absorption assumes it is. And frankly, the more you talk, the less I think you could ever have something valuable to contribute to society, no matter how much time we paid for you to spend in school "educating" yourself.

 

[WTH_Progs?]

I think Im voting for Bernie. Students shouldn’t have to worry about debt and loans while studying to fix our broken society. These loans are immoral and need to be forgiven.

Also anyone working full time deserves a comfortable $15/hour wage and free medical care.

Thats all

Beside the obvious, someone explain to this PROG the colleges they're running are part of the problem, not a solution. ILMAO @ shouldn't worry about money while studying to fix our broken society".

Locate a safe-space PROG.

 

[Grace Is Stoked]

I would disagree that they wouldn't work hard because the way higher eduction is currently set up in this country does not have to stay that way, it can change, it can be reimagined. Take our current educational system and the route a student has to choose as they navigate through high school. It's either graduate from high school and take out a huge loan for college (if you aren't lucky enough to have parents that can help) to study something that you haven't really decided on yet to hopefully then get a job with four years later OR you put college off to go get a job in which every year that goes by the likelihood of going back to college reduces significantly. So realistically it's either do what's expected, which is go to college, but put yourself in debt or you don't go to college and begin working but with the knowledge that your future could be limited without a degree. Now sure there are potential alternatives but for the most part this is the choice most teenagers are faced with.

What I am saying is that we should look at the educational system in this country and instead of building off of what we have and accepting that as they way it is we should look at the system and determine if this is really the best we can do. Is this really the only way it can work. In my opinion our system needs to be redesigned to make sure that the decision made at 18 years old isn't a life changing event but a stepping stone to a more sustainable future.

So for me I would make it so that graduating high school immediately qualifies you for either college or a vocational trade school in which it's the students choice which direction they want to go based off of their interests. If you want to be a welder you can go to the vocational school and learn to be a welder. If you want to be a biologist or a math teacher then you can go to college and study to be a biologist or a math teacher. If you want to go into a field that requires more educational investment like medical school or law school then your grades in high school would qualify you for those specific routes. If you didn't have the grades in high school then you could then qualify for medical school after the completion of a designated amount of years of college with a good GPA. Just a thought, it could vary.

As for costs for the student they would pay semester fees for things like room & board, books, recreation, food, and things like that on campus, a few hundred dollars per semester basically, but there wouldn't be a traditional tuition. Graduation qualifies you for college or trade school, your grades in high school qualify you for specific types of schools, and your interests help you determine the route. Get rid of two years of unnecessary classes and other inefficiencies that burden students and cause a lengthier stay in college and educate based on what the student is there for in my opinion.

That's an awful lot of words to say, "I don't want to change anything except to have someone else pay for me to have it."

It was a lot of words yes but if you read them you would have seen that I want to change quite a few things.

Read them, and the only thing that would be an actual change is that you get to mooch off of other people for what you want. High school graduation already does qualify you to go on to whatever type of further education you want; only difference is that right now it's YOUR responsibility to provide for it.

I do appreciate your "generous" agreement to allow us to charge the student himself for everyday stuff, though. Very kind of you not to require us to spoonfeed and burp the helpless little darlings.

Well no based on what I laid out the structure as whole would change, in my opinion, to a more efficient system with a clearer route to success for students as they choose their journey without fear of long term debt. Your work ethic in school is certainly your responsibility but the cost for higher education as it stands right now is almost an irresponsible decision to undertake for millions of graduating high school seniors since the cost for that education could very well lead to massive debt and no real guarantee of a job in your field of choice. Gambling on the futures of generations to come and the future of this country's intellectual power based on what they can and can't afford is not responsible in my opinion. It's not about being spoon fed. It's about securing a future for the next generation to be able to do the same for the next.

No, what you laid out was your own lack of understanding about how the system works now, and how reality would affect your pie-in-the-sky "it would be so wonderful if I could have what I want at someone else's expense" plans.

Please understand that, while YOU have the intellect of an insect, humans in general are NOT an ant colony. We aren't a collective, and we don't function as a collective, and your adult life is of much less importance to me than your extreme self-absorption assumes it is. And frankly, the more you talk, the less I think you could ever have something valuable to contribute to society, no matter how much time we paid for you to spend in school "educating" yourself.

I get we disagree but I don't know why you are personally attacking and insulting me since I haven't at all done that to you or anybody else here. I'm 27 and have been out of college for some time now but I do understand the current system and I also have college experience outside of the US as well for a year and so I have been exposed to more than one system. It's ok to look at our current system and acknowledge inefficiencies, inequity, and structure flaws. I'm trying to offer potential solutions or alterations but you and others here have yet to offer any solutions. You can't make something better if you see it as perfect the way it is despite visible and very real issues.

 

[bripat9643]

That's an awful lot of words to say, "I don't want to change anything except to have someone else pay for me to have it."

It was a lot of words yes but if you read them you would have seen that I want to change quite a few things.

Read them, and the only thing that would be an actual change is that you get to mooch off of other people for what you want. High school graduation already does qualify you to go on to whatever type of further education you want; only difference is that right now it's YOUR responsibility to provide for it.

I do appreciate your "generous" agreement to allow us to charge the student himself for everyday stuff, though. Very kind of you not to require us to spoonfeed and burp the helpless little darlings.

Well no based on what I laid out the structure as whole would change, in my opinion, to a more efficient system with a clearer route to success for students as they choose their journey without fear of long term debt. Your work ethic in school is certainly your responsibility but the cost for higher education as it stands right now is almost an irresponsible decision to undertake for millions of graduating high school seniors since the cost for that education could very well lead to massive debt and no real guarantee of a job in your field of choice. Gambling on the futures of generations to come and the future of this country's intellectual power based on what they can and can't afford is not responsible in my opinion. It's not about being spoon fed. It's about securing a future for the next generation to be able to do the same for the next.

No, what you laid out was your own lack of understanding about how the system works now, and how reality would affect your pie-in-the-sky "it would be so wonderful if I could have what I want at someone else's expense" plans.

Please understand that, while YOU have the intellect of an insect, humans in general are NOT an ant colony. We aren't a collective, and we don't function as a collective, and your adult life is of much less importance to me than your extreme self-absorption assumes it is. And frankly, the more you talk, the less I think you could ever have something valuable to contribute to society, no matter how much time we paid for you to spend in school "educating" yourself.

I get we disagree but I don't know why you are personally attacking and insulting me since I haven't at all done that to you or anybody else here. I'm 27 and have been out of college for some time now but I do understand the current system and I also have college experience outside of the US as well for a year and so I have been exposed to more than one system. It's ok to look at our current system and acknowledge inefficiencies, inequity, and structure flaws. I'm trying to offer potential solutions or alterations but you and others here have yet to offer any solutions. You can't make something better if you see it as perfect the way it is despite visible and very real issues.

The only "problem" you are offering a solution to is the desire of some people to get something for nothing and to make other's pay for it. That's the same kind of "solution" an armed robber offers when he wants the cash in your register.

 

[Grace Is Stoked]

It was a lot of words yes but if you read them you would have seen that I want to change quite a few things.

Read them, and the only thing that would be an actual change is that you get to mooch off of other people for what you want. High school graduation already does qualify you to go on to whatever type of further education you want; only difference is that right now it's YOUR responsibility to provide for it.

I do appreciate your "generous" agreement to allow us to charge the student himself for everyday stuff, though. Very kind of you not to require us to spoonfeed and burp the helpless little darlings.

Well no based on what I laid out the structure as whole would change, in my opinion, to a more efficient system with a clearer route to success for students as they choose their journey without fear of long term debt. Your work ethic in school is certainly your responsibility but the cost for higher education as it stands right now is almost an irresponsible decision to undertake for millions of graduating high school seniors since the cost for that education could very well lead to massive debt and no real guarantee of a job in your field of choice. Gambling on the futures of generations to come and the future of this country's intellectual power based on what they can and can't afford is not responsible in my opinion. It's not about being spoon fed. It's about securing a future for the next generation to be able to do the same for the next.

No, what you laid out was your own lack of understanding about how the system works now, and how reality would affect your pie-in-the-sky "it would be so wonderful if I could have what I want at someone else's expense" plans.

Please understand that, while YOU have the intellect of an insect, humans in general are NOT an ant colony. We aren't a collective, and we don't function as a collective, and your adult life is of much less importance to me than your extreme self-absorption assumes it is. And frankly, the more you talk, the less I think you could ever have something valuable to contribute to society, no matter how much time we paid for you to spend in school "educating" yourself.

I get we disagree but I don't know why you are personally attacking and insulting me since I haven't at all done that to you or anybody else here. I'm 27 and have been out of college for some time now but I do understand the current system and I also have college experience outside of the US as well for a year and so I have been exposed to more than one system. It's ok to look at our current system and acknowledge inefficiencies, inequity, and structure flaws. I'm trying to offer potential solutions or alterations but you and others here have yet to offer any solutions. You can't make something better if you see it as perfect the way it is despite visible and very real issues.

The only "problem" you are offering a solution to is the desire of some people to get something for nothing and to make other's pay for it. That's the same kind of "solution" an armed robber offers when he wants the cash in your register.

But it's not something for nothing though, their success is our country's success. The good of the many makes our community and our nation stronger in my opinion. Excessive tuition and the taking on of massive debt as a young adult is not a measure of success or a measure of someone's worth ethic in my opinion. I've also described in previous comments on here potential changes to our educational system and the college experience that doesn't involve the money aspect so i'd ask that you look at those possibilities before saying that I haven't offered anything. We can use capitalism for good in this country, and that means using the successes of capitalism to help fund the educational future of our children and their children.

I would also say that I am not a Bernie Sanders supporter or someone that will vote for Sanders. I disagree with why he wants to implement many of the policies he advocates for and I also disagree with the structure of his proposals including how he envisions free healthcare and student loan forgiveness. I am not calling for past student loans to be forgiven but for the future of our education system to be reimagined so that eventually the college experience as a whole is made more efficient, truly emphasizes education, and frees students from financial hardship before their adult lives even really begin.

 

[bripat9643]

Read them, and the only thing that would be an actual change is that you get to mooch off of other people for what you want. High school graduation already does qualify you to go on to whatever type of further education you want; only difference is that right now it's YOUR responsibility to provide for it.

I do appreciate your "generous" agreement to allow us to charge the student himself for everyday stuff, though. Very kind of you not to require us to spoonfeed and burp the helpless little darlings.

Well no based on what I laid out the structure as whole would change, in my opinion, to a more efficient system with a clearer route to success for students as they choose their journey without fear of long term debt. Your work ethic in school is certainly your responsibility but the cost for higher education as it stands right now is almost an irresponsible decision to undertake for millions of graduating high school seniors since the cost for that education could very well lead to massive debt and no real guarantee of a job in your field of choice. Gambling on the futures of generations to come and the future of this country's intellectual power based on what they can and can't afford is not responsible in my opinion. It's not about being spoon fed. It's about securing a future for the next generation to be able to do the same for the next.

No, what you laid out was your own lack of understanding about how the system works now, and how reality would affect your pie-in-the-sky "it would be so wonderful if I could have what I want at someone else's expense" plans.

Please understand that, while YOU have the intellect of an insect, humans in general are NOT an ant colony. We aren't a collective, and we don't function as a collective, and your adult life is of much less importance to me than your extreme self-absorption assumes it is. And frankly, the more you talk, the less I think you could ever have something valuable to contribute to society, no matter how much time we paid for you to spend in school "educating" yourself.

I get we disagree but I don't know why you are personally attacking and insulting me since I haven't at all done that to you or anybody else here. I'm 27 and have been out of college for some time now but I do understand the current system and I also have college experience outside of the US as well for a year and so I have been exposed to more than one system. It's ok to look at our current system and acknowledge inefficiencies, inequity, and structure flaws. I'm trying to offer potential solutions or alterations but you and others here have yet to offer any solutions. You can't make something better if you see it as perfect the way it is despite visible and very real issues.

The only "problem" you are offering a solution to is the desire of some people to get something for nothing and to make other's pay for it. That's the same kind of "solution" an armed robber offers when he wants the cash in your register.

But it's not something for nothing though, their success is our country's success. The good of the many makes our community and our nation stronger in my opinion. Excessive tuition and the taking on of massive debt as a young adult is not a measure of success or a measure of someone's worth ethic in my opinion. I've also described in previous comments on here potential changes to our educational system and the college experience that doesn't involve the money aspect so i'd ask that you look at those possibilities before saying that I haven't offered anything. We can use capitalism for good in this country, and that means using the successes of capitalism to help fund the educational future of our children and their children.

I would also say that I am not a Bernie Sanders supporter or someone that will vote for Sanders. I disagree with why he wants to implement many of the policies he advocates for and I also disagree with the structure of his proposals including how he envisions free healthcare and student loan forgiveness. I am not calling for past student loans to be forgiven but for the future of our education system to be reimagined so that eventually the college experience as a whole is made more efficient, truly emphasizes education, and frees students from financial hardship before their adult lives even really begin.

The idea that having government pay for it all makes it "more efficient" is beyond absurd. When has government ever made anything more efficient?

Also, the claim that I benefit is also beyond absurd. I might benefit about 0.00001% of what I pay. If it was that much of a benefit to people, then why don't they pay for it voluntarily?

 

[Grace Is Stoked]

Well no based on what I laid out the structure as whole would change, in my opinion, to a more efficient system with a clearer route to success for students as they choose their journey without fear of long term debt. Your work ethic in school is certainly your responsibility but the cost for higher education as it stands right now is almost an irresponsible decision to undertake for millions of graduating high school seniors since the cost for that education could very well lead to massive debt and no real guarantee of a job in your field of choice. Gambling on the futures of generations to come and the future of this country's intellectual power based on what they can and can't afford is not responsible in my opinion. It's not about being spoon fed. It's about securing a future for the next generation to be able to do the same for the next.

No, what you laid out was your own lack of understanding about how the system works now, and how reality would affect your pie-in-the-sky "it would be so wonderful if I could have what I want at someone else's expense" plans.

Please understand that, while YOU have the intellect of an insect, humans in general are NOT an ant colony. We aren't a collective, and we don't function as a collective, and your adult life is of much less importance to me than your extreme self-absorption assumes it is. And frankly, the more you talk, the less I think you could ever have something valuable to contribute to society, no matter how much time we paid for you to spend in school "educating" yourself.

I get we disagree but I don't know why you are personally attacking and insulting me since I haven't at all done that to you or anybody else here. I'm 27 and have been out of college for some time now but I do understand the current system and I also have college experience outside of the US as well for a year and so I have been exposed to more than one system. It's ok to look at our current system and acknowledge inefficiencies, inequity, and structure flaws. I'm trying to offer potential solutions or alterations but you and others here have yet to offer any solutions. You can't make something better if you see it as perfect the way it is despite visible and very real issues.

The only "problem" you are offering a solution to is the desire of some people to get something for nothing and to make other's pay for it. That's the same kind of "solution" an armed robber offers when he wants the cash in your register.

But it's not something for nothing though, their success is our country's success. The good of the many makes our community and our nation stronger in my opinion. Excessive tuition and the taking on of massive debt as a young adult is not a measure of success or a measure of someone's worth ethic in my opinion. I've also described in previous comments on here potential changes to our educational system and the college experience that doesn't involve the money aspect so i'd ask that you look at those possibilities before saying that I haven't offered anything. We can use capitalism for good in this country, and that means using the successes of capitalism to help fund the educational future of our children and their children.

I would also say that I am not a Bernie Sanders supporter or someone that will vote for Sanders. I disagree with why he wants to implement many of the policies he advocates for and I also disagree with the structure of his proposals including how he envisions free healthcare and student loan forgiveness. I am not calling for past student loans to be forgiven but for the future of our education system to be reimagined so that eventually the college experience as a whole is made more efficient, truly emphasizes education, and frees students from financial hardship before their adult lives even really begin.

The idea that having government pay for it all makes it "more efficient" is beyond absurd. When has government ever made anything more efficient.

Also, the claim that I benefit is also beyond absurd. I might benefit about 0.00001% of what I pay. If it was that much of a benefit to people, then why don't they pay for it voluntarily?

I didn't say that tuition free college was by itself more efficient but the process leading up to that is what I was talking about. In my past comments I mentioned ways to help make the educational experience from K through 12 and in college itself more efficient but for college it would be by eliminating classes that are unnecessary for the area of study that the student chooses before they enter college which could then effectively cut off a year or two of the current college structure and make the overall experience cheaper to fund. With regards to the benefit you yourself may not benefit as much as some others do, sure, but equal opportunity does not mean equal outcome. That same phrase is applicable to tax payer funded programs too in my opinion.

 

[bripat9643]

No, what you laid out was your own lack of understanding about how the system works now, and how reality would affect your pie-in-the-sky "it would be so wonderful if I could have what I want at someone else's expense" plans.

Please understand that, while YOU have the intellect of an insect, humans in general are NOT an ant colony. We aren't a collective, and we don't function as a collective, and your adult life is of much less importance to me than your extreme self-absorption assumes it is. And frankly, the more you talk, the less I think you could ever have something valuable to contribute to society, no matter how much time we paid for you to spend in school "educating" yourself.

I get we disagree but I don't know why you are personally attacking and insulting me since I haven't at all done that to you or anybody else here. I'm 27 and have been out of college for some time now but I do understand the current system and I also have college experience outside of the US as well for a year and so I have been exposed to more than one system. It's ok to look at our current system and acknowledge inefficiencies, inequity, and structure flaws. I'm trying to offer potential solutions or alterations but you and others here have yet to offer any solutions. You can't make something better if you see it as perfect the way it is despite visible and very real issues.

The only "problem" you are offering a solution to is the desire of some people to get something for nothing and to make other's pay for it. That's the same kind of "solution" an armed robber offers when he wants the cash in your register.

But it's not something for nothing though, their success is our country's success. The good of the many makes our community and our nation stronger in my opinion. Excessive tuition and the taking on of massive debt as a young adult is not a measure of success or a measure of someone's worth ethic in my opinion. I've also described in previous comments on here potential changes to our educational system and the college experience that doesn't involve the money aspect so i'd ask that you look at those possibilities before saying that I haven't offered anything. We can use capitalism for good in this country, and that means using the successes of capitalism to help fund the educational future of our children and their children.

I would also say that I am not a Bernie Sanders supporter or someone that will vote for Sanders. I disagree with why he wants to implement many of the policies he advocates for and I also disagree with the structure of his proposals including how he envisions free healthcare and student loan forgiveness. I am not calling for past student loans to be forgiven but for the future of our education system to be reimagined so that eventually the college experience as a whole is made more efficient, truly emphasizes education, and frees students from financial hardship before their adult lives even really begin.

The idea that having government pay for it all makes it "more efficient" is beyond absurd. When has government ever made anything more efficient.

Also, the claim that I benefit is also beyond absurd. I might benefit about 0.00001% of what I pay. If it was that much of a benefit to people, then why don't they pay for it voluntarily?

I didn't say that tuition free college was by itself more efficient but the process leading up to that is what I was talking about. In my past comments I mentioned ways to help make the educational experience from K through 12 and in college itself more efficient but for college it would be by eliminating classes that are unnecessary for the area of study that the student chooses before they enter college which could then effectively cut off a year or two of the current college structure and make the overall experience cheaper to fund. With regards to the benefit you yourself may not benefit as much as some others do, sure, but equal opportunity does not mean equal outcome. That same phrase is applicable to tax payer funded programs too in my opinion.

What "phrase" is that? The bottom line is that I will benefit almost none at all from giving free college to the next generation of losers. The people who benefit the most are the people who receive the education. Let them pay for it.

 

[Grace Is Stoked]

I get we disagree but I don't know why you are personally attacking and insulting me since I haven't at all done that to you or anybody else here. I'm 27 and have been out of college for some time now but I do understand the current system and I also have college experience outside of the US as well for a year and so I have been exposed to more than one system. It's ok to look at our current system and acknowledge inefficiencies, inequity, and structure flaws. I'm trying to offer potential solutions or alterations but you and others here have yet to offer any solutions. You can't make something better if you see it as perfect the way it is despite visible and very real issues.

The only "problem" you are offering a solution to is the desire of some people to get something for nothing and to make other's pay for it. That's the same kind of "solution" an armed robber offers when he wants the cash in your register.

But it's not something for nothing though, their success is our country's success. The good of the many makes our community and our nation stronger in my opinion. Excessive tuition and the taking on of massive debt as a young adult is not a measure of success or a measure of someone's worth ethic in my opinion. I've also described in previous comments on here potential changes to our educational system and the college experience that doesn't involve the money aspect so i'd ask that you look at those possibilities before saying that I haven't offered anything. We can use capitalism for good in this country, and that means using the successes of capitalism to help fund the educational future of our children and their children.

I would also say that I am not a Bernie Sanders supporter or someone that will vote for Sanders. I disagree with why he wants to implement many of the policies he advocates for and I also disagree with the structure of his proposals including how he envisions free healthcare and student loan forgiveness. I am not calling for past student loans to be forgiven but for the future of our education system to be reimagined so that eventually the college experience as a whole is made more efficient, truly emphasizes education, and frees students from financial hardship before their adult lives even really begin.

The idea that having government pay for it all makes it "more efficient" is beyond absurd. When has government ever made anything more efficient.

Also, the claim that I benefit is also beyond absurd. I might benefit about 0.00001% of what I pay. If it was that much of a benefit to people, then why don't they pay for it voluntarily?

I didn't say that tuition free college was by itself more efficient but the process leading up to that is what I was talking about. In my past comments I mentioned ways to help make the educational experience from K through 12 and in college itself more efficient but for college it would be by eliminating classes that are unnecessary for the area of study that the student chooses before they enter college which could then effectively cut off a year or two of the current college structure and make the overall experience cheaper to fund. With regards to the benefit you yourself may not benefit as much as some others do, sure, but equal opportunity does not mean equal outcome. That same phrase is applicable to tax payer funded programs too in my opinion.

What "phrase" is that? The bottom line is that I will benefit almost none at all from giving free college to the next generation of losers. The people who benefit the most are the people who receive the education. Let them pay for it.

We obviously simply just have different philosophies on the topic and probably others that stem from this topic as well and so I'm not trying to convince you that I am right or to buy in, but what I see on here that gets frustrating is the criticisms and labelling of potential ideas, like mine, but no alternative solutions with those criticisms. I can and I am willing to give you as much detail about my thoughts and ideas on the subject but i'd be curious what your solutions would be for our educational system from K-12 through college. I wouldn't think that you believe it's a perfect system, correct?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The only "problem" you are offering a solution to is the desire of some people to get something for nothing and to make other's pay for it. That's the same kind of "solution" an armed robber offers when he wants the cash in your register.

But it's not something for nothing though, their success is our country's success. The good of the many makes our community and our nation stronger in my opinion. Excessive tuition and the taking on of massive debt as a young adult is not a measure of success or a measure of someone's worth ethic in my opinion. I've also described in previous comments on here potential changes to our educational system and the college experience that doesn't involve the money aspect so i'd ask that you look at those possibilities before saying that I haven't offered anything. We can use capitalism for good in this country, and that means using the successes of capitalism to help fund the educational future of our children and their children.

I would also say that I am not a Bernie Sanders supporter or someone that will vote for Sanders. I disagree with why he wants to implement many of the policies he advocates for and I also disagree with the structure of his proposals including how he envisions free healthcare and student loan forgiveness. I am not calling for past student loans to be forgiven but for the future of our education system to be reimagined so that eventually the college experience as a whole is made more efficient, truly emphasizes education, and frees students from financial hardship before their adult lives even really begin.

The idea that having government pay for it all makes it "more efficient" is beyond absurd. When has government ever made anything more efficient.

Also, the claim that I benefit is also beyond absurd. I might benefit about 0.00001% of what I pay. If it was that much of a benefit to people, then why don't they pay for it voluntarily?

I didn't say that tuition free college was by itself more efficient but the process leading up to that is what I was talking about. In my past comments I mentioned ways to help make the educational experience from K through 12 and in college itself more efficient but for college it would be by eliminating classes that are unnecessary for the area of study that the student chooses before they enter college which could then effectively cut off a year or two of the current college structure and make the overall experience cheaper to fund. With regards to the benefit you yourself may not benefit as much as some others do, sure, but equal opportunity does not mean equal outcome. That same phrase is applicable to tax payer funded programs too in my opinion.

What "phrase" is that? The bottom line is that I will benefit almost none at all from giving free college to the next generation of losers. The people who benefit the most are the people who receive the education. Let them pay for it.

We obviously simply just have different philosophies on the topic and probably others that stem from this topic as well and so I'm not trying to convince you that I am right or to buy in, but what I see on here that gets frustrating is the criticisms and labelling of potential ideas, like mine, but no alternative solutions with those criticisms. I can and I am willing to give you as much detail about my thoughts and ideas on the subject but i'd be curious what your solutions would be for our educational system from K-12 through college. I wouldn't think that you believe it's a perfect system, correct?

what I see on here that gets frustrating is the criticisms and labelling of potential ideas, like mine, but no alternative solutions with those criticisms.

I gave my alternative solution.
Let the college make the loan.
If the degree doesn't result in a decent job, if the graduate can't pay back the loan, the college eats the loss.

 

[bripat9643]

The only "problem" you are offering a solution to is the desire of some people to get something for nothing and to make other's pay for it. That's the same kind of "solution" an armed robber offers when he wants the cash in your register.

But it's not something for nothing though, their success is our country's success. The good of the many makes our community and our nation stronger in my opinion. Excessive tuition and the taking on of massive debt as a young adult is not a measure of success or a measure of someone's worth ethic in my opinion. I've also described in previous comments on here potential changes to our educational system and the college experience that doesn't involve the money aspect so i'd ask that you look at those possibilities before saying that I haven't offered anything. We can use capitalism for good in this country, and that means using the successes of capitalism to help fund the educational future of our children and their children.

I would also say that I am not a Bernie Sanders supporter or someone that will vote for Sanders. I disagree with why he wants to implement many of the policies he advocates for and I also disagree with the structure of his proposals including how he envisions free healthcare and student loan forgiveness. I am not calling for past student loans to be forgiven but for the future of our education system to be reimagined so that eventually the college experience as a whole is made more efficient, truly emphasizes education, and frees students from financial hardship before their adult lives even really begin.

The idea that having government pay for it all makes it "more efficient" is beyond absurd. When has government ever made anything more efficient.

Also, the claim that I benefit is also beyond absurd. I might benefit about 0.00001% of what I pay. If it was that much of a benefit to people, then why don't they pay for it voluntarily?

I didn't say that tuition free college was by itself more efficient but the process leading up to that is what I was talking about. In my past comments I mentioned ways to help make the educational experience from K through 12 and in college itself more efficient but for college it would be by eliminating classes that are unnecessary for the area of study that the student chooses before they enter college which could then effectively cut off a year or two of the current college structure and make the overall experience cheaper to fund. With regards to the benefit you yourself may not benefit as much as some others do, sure, but equal opportunity does not mean equal outcome. That same phrase is applicable to tax payer funded programs too in my opinion.

What "phrase" is that? The bottom line is that I will benefit almost none at all from giving free college to the next generation of losers. The people who benefit the most are the people who receive the education. Let them pay for it.

We obviously simply just have different philosophies on the topic and probably others that stem from this topic as well and so I'm not trying to convince you that I am right or to buy in, but what I see on here that gets frustrating is the criticisms and labelling of potential ideas, like mine, but no alternative solutions with those criticisms. I can and I am willing to give you as much detail about my thoughts and ideas on the subject but i'd be curious what your solutions would be for our educational system from K-12 through college. I wouldn't think that you believe it's a perfect system, correct?

My solution is to privatize it.

 

[Grace Is Stoked]

But it's not something for nothing though, their success is our country's success. The good of the many makes our community and our nation stronger in my opinion. Excessive tuition and the taking on of massive debt as a young adult is not a measure of success or a measure of someone's worth ethic in my opinion. I've also described in previous comments on here potential changes to our educational system and the college experience that doesn't involve the money aspect so i'd ask that you look at those possibilities before saying that I haven't offered anything. We can use capitalism for good in this country, and that means using the successes of capitalism to help fund the educational future of our children and their children.

I would also say that I am not a Bernie Sanders supporter or someone that will vote for Sanders. I disagree with why he wants to implement many of the policies he advocates for and I also disagree with the structure of his proposals including how he envisions free healthcare and student loan forgiveness. I am not calling for past student loans to be forgiven but for the future of our education system to be reimagined so that eventually the college experience as a whole is made more efficient, truly emphasizes education, and frees students from financial hardship before their adult lives even really begin.

The idea that having government pay for it all makes it "more efficient" is beyond absurd. When has government ever made anything more efficient.

Also, the claim that I benefit is also beyond absurd. I might benefit about 0.00001% of what I pay. If it was that much of a benefit to people, then why don't they pay for it voluntarily?

I didn't say that tuition free college was by itself more efficient but the process leading up to that is what I was talking about. In my past comments I mentioned ways to help make the educational experience from K through 12 and in college itself more efficient but for college it would be by eliminating classes that are unnecessary for the area of study that the student chooses before they enter college which could then effectively cut off a year or two of the current college structure and make the overall experience cheaper to fund. With regards to the benefit you yourself may not benefit as much as some others do, sure, but equal opportunity does not mean equal outcome. That same phrase is applicable to tax payer funded programs too in my opinion.

What "phrase" is that? The bottom line is that I will benefit almost none at all from giving free college to the next generation of losers. The people who benefit the most are the people who receive the education. Let them pay for it.

We obviously simply just have different philosophies on the topic and probably others that stem from this topic as well and so I'm not trying to convince you that I am right or to buy in, but what I see on here that gets frustrating is the criticisms and labelling of potential ideas, like mine, but no alternative solutions with those criticisms. I can and I am willing to give you as much detail about my thoughts and ideas on the subject but i'd be curious what your solutions would be for our educational system from K-12 through college. I wouldn't think that you believe it's a perfect system, correct?

My solution is to privatize it.

So would that mean tuition for all levels of school based on what the owner chooses to price it at? So all school from K through 12 a family would have to find an elementary school and pay a tuition then find a middle school, pay that tuition, and then find a high school and pay that tuition?

 

[bripat9643]

The idea that having government pay for it all makes it "more efficient" is beyond absurd. When has government ever made anything more efficient.

Also, the claim that I benefit is also beyond absurd. I might benefit about 0.00001% of what I pay. If it was that much of a benefit to people, then why don't they pay for it voluntarily?

I didn't say that tuition free college was by itself more efficient but the process leading up to that is what I was talking about. In my past comments I mentioned ways to help make the educational experience from K through 12 and in college itself more efficient but for college it would be by eliminating classes that are unnecessary for the area of study that the student chooses before they enter college which could then effectively cut off a year or two of the current college structure and make the overall experience cheaper to fund. With regards to the benefit you yourself may not benefit as much as some others do, sure, but equal opportunity does not mean equal outcome. That same phrase is applicable to tax payer funded programs too in my opinion.

What "phrase" is that? The bottom line is that I will benefit almost none at all from giving free college to the next generation of losers. The people who benefit the most are the people who receive the education. Let them pay for it.

We obviously simply just have different philosophies on the topic and probably others that stem from this topic as well and so I'm not trying to convince you that I am right or to buy in, but what I see on here that gets frustrating is the criticisms and labelling of potential ideas, like mine, but no alternative solutions with those criticisms. I can and I am willing to give you as much detail about my thoughts and ideas on the subject but i'd be curious what your solutions would be for our educational system from K-12 through college. I wouldn't think that you believe it's a perfect system, correct?

My solution is to privatize it.

So would that mean tuition for all levels of school based on what the owner chooses to price it at? So all school from K through 12 a family would have to find an elementary school and pay a tuition then find a middle school, pay that tuition, and then find a high school and pay that tuition?

Yes.

 

[Redfish]

I think Im voting for Bernie. Students shouldn’t have to worry about debt and loans while studying to fix our broken society. These loans are immoral and need to be forgiven.

Also anyone working full time deserves a comfortable $15/hour wage and free medical care.

Thats all

If the students pay nothing, who is going to pay the teachers? who is going to pay for the building maintenance? the utilities? the food for students? books? Same questions relative to medical care, who is going to pay the doctors,the hospitals, the drug companies?

None of these things are just there for the taking, someone has to pay for them. Who do you suggest we send the bills to? How about you? Are you willing to pay for someone else's education and medical care?

 

[Grace Is Stoked]

I think Im voting for Bernie. Students shouldn’t have to worry about debt and loans while studying to fix our broken society. These loans are immoral and need to be forgiven.

Also anyone working full time deserves a comfortable $15/hour wage and free medical care.

Thats all

If the students pay nothing, who is going to pay the teachers? who is going to pay for the building maintenance? the utilities? the food for students? books? Same questions relative to medical care, who is going to pay the doctors,the hospitals, the drug companies?

None of these things are just there for the taking, someone has to pay for them. Who do you suggest we send the bills to? How about you? Are you willing to pay for someone else's education and medical care?

I know you weren't asking me but in my opinion the teachers would be paid by the department of education through the funding generated primarily by increased taxation. As for things such as books, housing, food, amenities, recreation, and other services the students at that university could pay a set semester fee which would go towards covering services like that in my opinion. For healthcare it would be a similar process although if it were up to me there would still be a yearly deductible to meet before your care is paid for by the government. Hospitals would be publicly funded, and as for prescription drugs most would be provided with that coverage but if some aren't covered then there could be a price cap to ensure affordability.