Hospital Won't Back Obama Birth Claim

[Yurt]

Yurt, HOW HAS people shown obama's Certification of live birth, nefarious? HOW? They haven't, thus the frivious mention by several of the courts imo...

so no need to insist on an original....if you can show us how obama's Certification of Birth was nefarious then maybe they would have a case to insist on seeing the original, no?

care,

they have not been given access in order to show it. there are questions about which hospital, inconsistencies are what i believe they claim. how can they show anything when they can't see a copy of the certificate of live birth care?

the certification of live birth only gives partial information, that is why it is not titled the same. if there is nothing to hide care, what harm is there in releasing a copy? if obama doesn't want to waste court time, release a copy like mccain did and shut everyone up. the majority of people that have a problem with this is due solely to the fact he won't release a copy of original. i've been pos repped numerous times by people in this threads and every single one of them is about the original.

it begs the question that HI states it exists, yet he won't release it. look at the energy you're spending arguing its frivolous when you don't even know what all is contained the original.

YURT,

whether Obama was born in Kenya or timbuktu he is a natural born citizen, of the United States....you realize such, don't you?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/general-discussion/81295-usa-citizenship-laws-history-vs-obama.html

*shakes head*

as i've told you and others numerous times, i believe he is a citizen, nice doge of the facts and the law though....

how quickly you shut down when asked what is the harm in producing it....and how can they prove their case when they are not allowed access to it....

you're normally fairly unbiased, in this incident you are so entrenched in the belief that this stuff is a joke you're not seeing straight. you're missing the law, the facts and the very notion of how dangerous it is to set a precedent that US citizens cannot have access to a simple copy of an original birth certificate to clarify constitutional eligibility and denying them the right to present their case in court either due to lack of standing or in the faulty legal opinion of its frivolous.

and your little thread....either allow a copy of the original or your thread will never be complete....and your thread is opinions

 

[Care4all]

care,

they have not been given access in order to show it. there are questions about which hospital, inconsistencies are what i believe they claim. how can they show anything when they can't see a copy of the certificate of live birth care?

the certification of live birth only gives partial information, that is why it is not titled the same. if there is nothing to hide care, what harm is there in releasing a copy? if obama doesn't want to waste court time, release a copy like mccain did and shut everyone up. the majority of people that have a problem with this is due solely to the fact he won't release a copy of original. i've been pos repped numerous times by people in this threads and every single one of them is about the original.

it begs the question that HI states it exists, yet he won't release it. look at the energy you're spending arguing its frivolous when you don't even know what all is contained the original.

YURT,

whether Obama was born in Kenya or timbuktu he is a natural born citizen, of the United States....you realize such, don't you?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/general-discussion/81295-usa-citizenship-laws-history-vs-obama.html

*shakes head*

as i've told you and others numerous times, i believe he is a citizen, nice doge of the facts and the law though....

how quickly you shut down when asked what is the harm in producing it....and how can they prove their case when they are not allowed access to it....

you're normally fairly unbiased, in this incident you are so entrenched in the belief that this stuff is a joke you're not seeing straight. you're missing the law, the facts and the very notion of how dangerous it is to set a precedent that US citizens cannot have access to a simple copy of an original birth certificate to clarify constitutional eligibility and denying them the right to present their case in court either due to lack of standing or in the faulty legal opinion of its frivolous.

and your little thread....either allow a copy of the original or your thread will never be complete....and your thread is opinions

The point is Yurt, HOW could they prove their case if they did have access to it? What information on the original, that is missing on the Certification due to the mother's Privacy, would help your or their case?

His birth weight and length when born, the mother's doctor's name, the hospital, the mother's home address? WHAT on the original would prove that Obama was born in Kenya and what importance would it be for anyone, when he would still be eligible as a Natural Born Citizen, to be President?

Being that the certified live birth records of hawaii shown to us via his certification of Live Birth, of which all of the legal information on it comes from the Hospital Original, means that both documents say that Obama was born in Hawaii.

His original Birth Certificate HAS to show the same thing....it is CERTIFIED AND SEALED as to saying the same thing....he was born in Hawaii.

The original Birth Certificate is generated by the Hospital where the child was born.

If Obama were born in Kenya, THERE WOULD BE NO ORIGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE for you or anyone else, being DENIED ACCESS TO, and there would be no Certification of Birth, registered with the Hawaiian Health REGISTRAR on August 8 1961.

And you never answer the questions or facts that i have put before you, except the ones where you feel you can make a point...how about addressing how Obama's birth could be registered in hawaii as a live birth in hawaii if he were born in Kenya, just 3.5 days before he was officially registered with the State Records?

Do you think his mother made it home from africa, went to the State, filled out all the proper forms for a child born overseas, or bribed someone to say he was born in hawaii all before the date of his birth being registered with the state....IN JUST THE LESS THAN 4 DAYS?

What grounds do those suing have to bring any suit, if obama is a natural born citizen, whether he was born in Kenya or Hawaii?


Please ANSWER my questions this time...pretty, pretty, please.

Care

 

[Yurt]

no, i've answered your questions, provided you with law and you never explain the harm in releasing the original

i'm done talking to you care, you just go in circles and ignore what i give and the questions i give you.

have fun with discussing this with others

 

[Sweet Willy]

no, i've answered your questions, provided you with law and you never explain the harm in releasing the original

i'm done talking to you care, you just go in circles and ignore what i give and the questions i give you.

have fun with discussing this with others

The only law is that Barak Obama be a natural American citizen.

It has been satisfied.

 

[Care4all]

no, i've answered your questions, provided you with law and you never explain the harm in releasing the original

i'm done talking to you care, you just go in circles and ignore what i give and the questions i give you.

have fun with discussing this with others

that's fine, QUIT with me if you want, but you never answered my questions...even though you claimed you have....

and obama chooses to keep his original out of the hands of berg, because he feels like it i suppose, and because he legally, has this right to privacy and should not be subject to these frivolous accusations in the first place, again, i suppose, and he should not be subject to releasing his birth weight and hospital and doctor to a stranger when ALL that is needed is the State acknowledging his birth there, through their records, which they did....but you should know this....

there is NOTHING nefarious with obama's certification of live birth and you know it.

care

 

[Yurt]

no, i've answered your questions, provided you with law and you never explain the harm in releasing the original

i'm done talking to you care, you just go in circles and ignore what i give and the questions i give you.

have fun with discussing this with others

that's fine, QUIT with me if you want, but you never answered my questions...even though you claimed you have....

and obama chooses to keep his original out of the hands of berg, because he feels like it i suppose, and because he legally, has this right to privacy and should not be subject to these frivolous accusations in the first place, again, i suppose, and he should not be subject to releasing his birth weight and hospital and doctor to a stranger when ALL that is needed is the State acknowledging his birth there, through their records, which they did....but you should know this....

there is NOTHING nefarious with obama's certification of live birth and you know it.

care

and you wonder why i refuse to continue this nonsense....i said people have claimed something about the certificate, not the certification...and you arguing one way or the other is irrelevent to why obama won't release it....

you're ignoring a large portion of what i keep repeating to you, so why bother continuing? your questions to me are about the veracity of these claims, i already told you i believe he is a citizen, so all you are doing is raising strawman arguments to me while ignoring mine....

what is the harm? none....obama is a liar for promising to fight all smears and be transparent.

 

[Sweet Willy]

no, i've answered your questions, provided you with law and you never explain the harm in releasing the original

i'm done talking to you care, you just go in circles and ignore what i give and the questions i give you.

have fun with discussing this with others

that's fine, QUIT with me if you want, but you never answered my questions...even though you claimed you have....

and obama chooses to keep his original out of the hands of berg, because he feels like it i suppose, and because he legally, has this right to privacy and should not be subject to these frivolous accusations in the first place, again, i suppose, and he should not be subject to releasing his birth weight and hospital and doctor to a stranger when ALL that is needed is the State acknowledging his birth there, through their records, which they did....but you should know this....

there is NOTHING nefarious with obama's certification of live birth and you know it.

care

and you wonder why i refuse to continue this nonsense....i said people have claimed something about the certificate, not the certification...and you arguing one way or the other is irrelevent to why obama won't release it....

you're ignoring a large portion of what i keep repeating to you, so why bother continuing? your questions to me are about the veracity of these claims, i already told you i believe he is a citizen, so all you are doing is raising strawman arguments to me while ignoring mine....

what is the harm? none....obama is a liar for promising to fight all smears and be transparent.

And this is exactly why you won't be allowed to make an issue of this, at least not in any court. Here, you admit that your argument is totally and completely disingenuous. You beleive that Obama is a citizen.

That my friend, is the end of your claim in any US court.

FAILURE TO STATE A CLAIM FOR WHICH RELIEF CAN BE GRANTED.

If you already believe that he is a citizen, AND you admit it, you have no claim. You have no reason, by your own admission, to challenge the evidence provided.

Prosecuting Obama for breaking a campaign promise? Good luck. That seems to be your only accusation.

 

[Yurt]

that's fine, QUIT with me if you want, but you never answered my questions...even though you claimed you have....

and obama chooses to keep his original out of the hands of berg, because he feels like it i suppose, and because he legally, has this right to privacy and should not be subject to these frivolous accusations in the first place, again, i suppose, and he should not be subject to releasing his birth weight and hospital and doctor to a stranger when ALL that is needed is the State acknowledging his birth there, through their records, which they did....but you should know this....

there is NOTHING nefarious with obama's certification of live birth and you know it.

care

and you wonder why i refuse to continue this nonsense....i said people have claimed something about the certificate, not the certification...and you arguing one way or the other is irrelevent to why obama won't release it....

you're ignoring a large portion of what i keep repeating to you, so why bother continuing? your questions to me are about the veracity of these claims, i already told you i believe he is a citizen, so all you are doing is raising strawman arguments to me while ignoring mine....

what is the harm? none....obama is a liar for promising to fight all smears and be transparent.

And this is exactly why you won't be allowed to make an issue of this, at least not in any court. Here, you admit that your argument is totally and completely disingenuous. You beleive that Obama is a citizen.

That my friend, is the end of your claim in any US court.

FAILURE TO STATE A CLAIM FOR WHICH RELIEF CAN BE GRANTED.

If you already believe that he is a citizen, AND you admit it, you have no claim. You have no reason, by your own admission, to challenge the evidence provided.

Prosecuting Obama for breaking a campaign promise? Good luck. That seems to be your only accusation.

you have to be one of the most ignorant people on this board....this is why i tire of going in circles

*news flash*

this is not about me bringing a claim, this is about those who believe his is not a citizen and my belief that citizens should be able to demand proof of constitutional qualifications...so you twit, they do have reason to bring a claim

thanks for the laugh though

 

[Terral]

Hi Yurt:

*shakes head*

as i've told you and others numerous times, i believe he is a citizen, nice doge of the facts and the law though....

Yeah. Lots of people believe in Santa Claus too and they have more evidence than you. Obama is an Illegal Alien Foreign National . . .

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rkKhxqBfUw&feature=related"]Obama Is an Illegal Alien!!![/ame]

. . . and everyone in the Corrupt-To-The-Core Congress knows it. Lawlessness is running rampant upon the land and . . .

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdiG4OC48LY]. . . Obama Is Your Illuminati NWO Destroyer . . .[/ame]

GL,

Terral

 

[Sweet Willy]

and you wonder why i refuse to continue this nonsense....i said people have claimed something about the certificate, not the certification...and you arguing one way or the other is irrelevent to why obama won't release it....

you're ignoring a large portion of what i keep repeating to you, so why bother continuing? your questions to me are about the veracity of these claims, i already told you i believe he is a citizen, so all you are doing is raising strawman arguments to me while ignoring mine....

what is the harm? none....obama is a liar for promising to fight all smears and be transparent.

And this is exactly why you won't be allowed to make an issue of this, at least not in any court. Here, you admit that your argument is totally and completely disingenuous. You beleive that Obama is a citizen.

That my friend, is the end of your claim in any US court.

FAILURE TO STATE A CLAIM FOR WHICH RELIEF CAN BE GRANTED.

If you already believe that he is a citizen, AND you admit it, you have no claim. You have no reason, by your own admission, to challenge the evidence provided.

Prosecuting Obama for breaking a campaign promise? Good luck. That seems to be your only accusation.

you have to be one of the most ignorant people on this board....this is why i tire of going in circles

*news flash*

this is not about me bringing a claim, this is about those who believe his is not a citizen and my belief that citizens should be able to demand proof of constitutional qualifications...so you twit, they do have reason to bring a claim

thanks for the laugh though

And those people also, can not state a claim. The claims are frivilous.

 

[Care4all]

Hi Yurt:

*shakes head*

as i've told you and others numerous times, i believe he is a citizen, nice doge of the facts and the law though....

Yeah. Lots of people believe in Santa Claus too and they have more evidence than you. Obama is an Illegal Alien Foreign National . . .

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rkKhxqBfUw&feature=related"]Obama Is an Illegal Alien!!![/ame]

. . . and everyone in the Corrupt-To-The-Core Congress knows it. Lawlessness is running rampant upon the land and . . .

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdiG4OC48LY]. . . Obama Is Your Illuminati NWO Destroyer . . .[/ame]

GL,

Terral

you've got one BIG PROBLEM, even if obama was born in kenya, he still was a us citizen AT BIRTH, and if you are a us citizen at birth, you are considered a natural BORN citizen.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/gener...enship-laws-history-vs-obama.html#post1328538

 

[jvn]

Just a quick note here because the misuse of legal terms drives me NUTS!

Here is the definition of Prima Facie:

Evidence that is sufficient to raise a presumption of fact or to establish the fact in question unless rebutted.

A prima-facie case is a lawsuit that alleges facts adequate to prove the underlying conduct supporting the cause of action and thereby prevail.

So, the Certification of Live Birth which says that it is prima facie evidence of the facts stated thereon is saying that it is sufficient to "establish the fact in question unless rebutted."

Get that?

It doesn't mean that it ISN'T certified evidence, it doesn't mean that it ISN'T proof unless presented in a court of law, it means that the information on the certification IS TO BE TAKEN AS FACT UNLESS REBUTTED IN COURT!!!!

So this establishes two things.

First, the President HAS submitted written documentation establishing his birth in Hawaii in August 1961, and

Second, that the burden of proof here is on those who claim that he is not eligible to be President because he was born in Kenya or wherever else but the US.

Has anybody seen any proof of THAT? I haven't seen anything that even remotely indicates that...

 

[Care4all]

Just a quick note here because the misuse of legal terms drives me NUTS!

Here is the definition of Prima Facie:

Evidence that is sufficient to raise a presumption of fact or to establish the fact in question unless rebutted.

A prima-facie case is a lawsuit that alleges facts adequate to prove the underlying conduct supporting the cause of action and thereby prevail.

So, the Certification of Live Birth which says that it is prima facie evidence of the facts stated thereon is saying that it is sufficient to "establish the fact in question unless rebutted."

Get that?

It doesn't mean that it ISN'T certified evidence, it doesn't mean that it ISN'T proof unless presented in a court of law, it means that the information on the certification IS TO BE TAKEN AS FACT UNLESS REBUTTED IN COURT!!!!

So this establishes two things.

First, the President HAS submitted written documentation establishing his birth in Hawaii in August 1961, and

Second, that the burden of proof here is on those who claim that he is not eligible to be President because he was born in Kenya or wherever else but the US.

Has anybody seen any proof of THAT? I haven't seen anything that even remotely indicates that...

thanks for the explanation and definition.

 

[Yurt]

Just a quick note here because the misuse of legal terms drives me NUTS!

Here is the definition of Prima Facie:

Evidence that is sufficient to raise a presumption of fact or to establish the fact in question unless rebutted.

A prima-facie case is a lawsuit that alleges facts adequate to prove the underlying conduct supporting the cause of action and thereby prevail.

So, the Certification of Live Birth which says that it is prima facie evidence of the facts stated thereon is saying that it is sufficient to "establish the fact in question unless rebutted."

Get that?

It doesn't mean that it ISN'T certified evidence, it doesn't mean that it ISN'T proof unless presented in a court of law, it means that the information on the certification IS TO BE TAKEN AS FACT UNLESS REBUTTED IN COURT!!!!

So this establishes two things.

First, the President HAS submitted written documentation establishing his birth in Hawaii in August 1961, and

Second, that the burden of proof here is on those who claim that he is not eligible to be President because he was born in Kenya or wherever else but the US.

Has anybody seen any proof of THAT? I haven't seen anything that even remotely indicates that...

i've already explain this in detail to care, and this is exactly why i tire of discussing this issue with her...and if you claim i have misused the word you're dead wrong.

why haven't you seen proof.....because no court has allowed them access to a copy or the original....or to bring their claim in court

all they want is their day in court to rebut the evidence.

it is simple really, if obama releases a copy of the original, it goes beyond a presumption....

 

[Yurt]

this kind of stuff is exactly why obama should release it:

News sites swap Obama's birthplace like magic

the above raises a plausible rebuttal that should be resolved in court or by obama releasing a copy....without that, there is no way to rebut the presumption....

now do you understand why this continues?

 

[geauxtohell]

*news flash*

this is not about me bringing a claim, this is about those who believe his is not a citizen and my belief that citizens should be able to demand proof of constitutional qualifications...so you twit, they do have reason to bring a claim

The courts have not sided with your belief. It makes sense, as it would establish precedent to allow any single citizen to challenge an election and thus stymie the democratic process of our country. It would be like Florida 2000 or Franken v. Coleman on steroids.

Aren't you a lawyer? Wouldn't your time be better spent writing some briefs and motions on this matter as opposed to argueing with a bunch of people on the internet?

 

[Yurt]

*news flash*

this is not about me bringing a claim, this is about those who believe his is not a citizen and my belief that citizens should be able to demand proof of constitutional qualifications...so you twit, they do have reason to bring a claim

The courts have not sided with your belief. It makes sense, as it would establish precedent to allow any single citizen to challenge an election and thus stymie the democratic process of our country. It would be like Florida 2000 or Franken v. Coleman on steroids.

Aren't you a lawyer? Wouldn't your time be better spent writing some briefs and motions on this matter as opposed to argueing with a bunch of people on the internet?

well that settles it folks, the courts have so far not sided with me and apparently this tool thinks i'm a lawyer so i will just shut up now....because lawyers don't have the right to speak to their minds on a message board...they shoud 24/7 write briefs

you make sweet willy look intelligent

and you comparing a recount to qualifications is the most absurd, moronic statement i have heard all day...if the court said a prez candidate did not have standing, then you would have piont dumbass

 

[geauxtohell]

well that settles it folks, the courts have so far not sided with me and apparently this tool thinks i'm a lawyer so i will just shut up now....because lawyers don't have the right to speak to their minds on a message board...they shoud 24/7 write briefs

Was I factually inaccurate? I was under the impression that you are a lawyer. Is that not the case? Your statement is a little vague.

you make sweet willy look intelligent

The summation of your intelligence is negative repping me and calling me a "moron" and an "asshole", thus, I am not terribly impressed.

Mind you, I don't care that you negative rep me, I just think it makes you look childish and weak.

You are right about one thing though, I am an asshole.

and you comparing a recount to qualifications is the most absurd, moronic statement i have heard all day...if the court said a prez candidate did not have standing, then you would have piont dumbass

My point was standing. The Bush V. Gore case was against Bush and Gore because they had standing. No one ever debated that.

What you apparently want to do, is give every single American standing in contesting an election issue, which would be completely disasterous.

I know you are slow on the uptake, but the difference is a potential legal dispute between two individuals and a potential legal dispute that could involve anyone of millions of people.

The electorial process could potentially be tied up in courts for years, and we would never seat another candidate.

I've yet to see you "birthers" address that point.

 

[Yurt]

TE=geauxtohell;1329553]

well that settles it folks, the courts have so far not sided with me and apparently this tool thinks i'm a lawyer so i will just shut up now....because lawyers don't have the right to speak to their minds on a message board...they shoud 24/7 write briefs

Was I factually inaccurate? I was under the impression that you are a lawyer. Is that not the case? Your statement is a little vague.

what difference does it make it to you, the board, this discussion? what do you do for a living?

The summation of your intelligence is negative repping me and calling me a "moron" and an "asshole", thus, I am not terribly impressed.

Mind you, I don't care that you negative rep me, I just think it makes you look childish and weak. You are right about one thing though, I am an asshole.

IOW, my neg rep spoke the truth.....and if you dont' care....and you admit all i said asshole...why bring up.....

and you comparing a recount to qualifications is the most absurd, moronic statement i have heard all day...if the court said a prez candidate did not have standing, then you would have piont dumbass

My point was standing. The Bush V. Gore case was against Bush and Gore because they had standing. No one ever debated that.

What you apparently want to do, is give every single American standing in contesting an election issue, which would be completely disasterous.

I know you are slow on the uptake, but the difference is a potential legal dispute between two individuals and a potential legal dispute that could involve anyone of millions of people.

you're dead wrong....you're talking vote recounts vs. producing a one sheet of paper....

The electorial process could potentially be tied up in courts for years, and we would never seat another candidate.

I've yet to see you "birthers" address that point.

you again are dead wrong...mccain.....threw everything he had on the table to convince people....and that got resolved real quick.....obama, doesn't want to provide information.......

why is that? why the openess of the mccain....why does obama not do the same thing...they both were challenged and only one rose up and met the challenge....obama is still hiding information as compared to mccain

that is a fact

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Thread Moved

ROFLMNAO..

You're such a fucking super-douschebag...