How are cops supposed to know if their attacker is armed or not?

[Sonny Clark]

HI ShootSpeeders
to prevent any more Zimmerman/Martin or Ferguson incidents or Eric Garner confrontations
clearly both the people doing the policing and the people being policed need to agree what the rules are.

Half the people I talk with don't even know what the laws and procedures are.
Then you end with with powder kegs like Ferguson ready to blow up at the first inciteful conflict.

When I was going through school training, the teachers made the students write out their
own class rules and all to agree to follow them from day one. Or you don't get to participate in class.

Why don't we require this for citizenship? Why not require the same training and oath that police and military
officers take, for all citizens who want to enforce their equal rights, and especially defend the law using guns?

The confrontations can be prevented by agreeing what the procedures and laws are.

If I were an officer or member of a union, I'd refuse to police a district until all the resident there
sign agreements to follow laws and set procedures in case of investigation, confrontation or arrest.
either people are able to be legally competent and financially responsible for following the laws or breaking them,
or they need assistance, counseling or supervision if they have some disability or condition where they can't follow
laws, and this needs to be addressed instead of letting people run free without any agreement to follow laws.

We can't just wait for people to land in prison before they learn their rights and the laws they were supposed to follow.
Duh. teach them in advance, and if they can't pass, you already screen out which people need help.

We can't afford to keep funding the prison complex when it would cost us less in resources to educate
and train citizens to preventing crime and saving people, property and principles from violations in the first place.

That all sounds good but these people know damn well not to assault a cop or disregard their orders.

Cops aren't GOD almighty. They break more laws than anyone else. Why should anyone bow down to them? Are they about questioning?

How about so you dont get your dumbass shot?
Save the bullshit for the court room.

So, you're now in to name calling and personal attacks to express your case? WOW. Why not just keep the conversation civil and on an adult level? There's no call for childish name calling and personal attacks. This is just a conversation, not war or a life or death situation. Calm down and be adult and civil.

You just called all cops a pieces of shit. I would hardly call that being civil.
You have obviously had some bad experiences with them to feel that way.

Yes, I called then POS, and meant it. I'm smart enough to read and keep up with events. I know what they do, and why they do it. It's common knowledge and on the internet and news every day. I feel that way because I live in reality, and not a fairy tail world. One would have to be dumb not to know what's going on considered how much it's plastered all over the news daily. I've never been in prison or convicted of a crime if that's what you mean. But, I have been given several BS quota tickets in my life.

 

[emilynghiem]

Well, understand that being unarmed does not matter to any cop. That's a fact. It seems like they are privileged, and can do whatever they like.

You're stupid. Permanent Ignore jerk-off.

Why the name calling and personal attack? Is there a reason that you can't be civil and adult in these conversations?

Dear Sonny Clark
didn't you just post:
Cops are low-life POS. period.

Were you being sarcastic or isn't that name calling?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

That all sounds good but these people know damn well not to assault a cop or disregard their orders.

Cops aren't GOD almighty. They break more laws than anyone else. Why should anyone bow down to them? Are they about questioning?

How about so you dont get your dumbass shot?
Save the bullshit for the court room.

So, you're now in to name calling and personal attacks to express your case? WOW. Why not just keep the conversation civil and on an adult level? There's no call for childish name calling and personal attacks. This is just a conversation, not war or a life or death situation. Calm down and be adult and civil.

You just called all cops a pieces of shit. I would hardly call that being civil.
You have obviously had some bad experiences with them to feel that way.

Yes, I called then POS, and meant it. I'm smart enough to read and keep up with events. I know what they do, and why they do it. It's common knowledge and on the internet and news every day. I feel that way because I live in reality, and not a fairy tail world. One would have to be dumb not to know what's going on considered how much it's plastered all over the news daily. I've never been in prison or convicted of a crime if that's what you mean. But, I have been given several BS quota tickets in my life.

Persecution complex.

 

[Sonny Clark]

Where is the proof he attacked an officer? The only one that said he attacked an officer was the officer that did the shooting. Do you have proof that he actually attacked an officer? Was there a jury trial and evidence presented?

Bullshit..witnesses said MB was reaching inside the vehicle and there was a scuffle. MBs blood was found inside the car and on officer Wilson gun and himself.
The evidence does not fit your narrative.

Also, some witnesses said that the officer pulled MB's arm inside the car. Also, the blood could have been because the office cut or scratched MB. Different witnesses said different things, which also came out in the investigation. Some witnesses lied, and later admitted it.

Yeah they lied. Unfortunately they were lying for MB and got caught.

If memory serves me correctly, the DA said during a news briefing that he found lies on both sides of the case. He said that there were lies for and against the cop. There was no actual video of the beginning of the event, so everyone gave their side of what happened. Eventually, as it usually happens, the cops word was believed above everyone else's.

The evidence and the witnesses supported Wilsons side of the story.
Even his buddy changed his tune in light of the evidence.
Not sure what more you can ask for especially when MB had just shown a penchant for violence while robbing a little old man.

There were several sides to the story. Some were accepted and others dismissed. In the end, the word of the officer was the deciding factor, no the word of any witnesses. Still, there was no need to kill the man. The situation could've, should've been handled differently. We don't execute people for stealing a few cigars.

 

[Sonny Clark]

Well, understand that being unarmed does not matter to any cop. That's a fact. It seems like they are privileged, and can do whatever they like.

You're stupid. Permanent Ignore jerk-off.

Why the name calling and personal attack? Is there a reason that you can't be civil and adult in these conversations?

Dear Sonny Clark
didn't you just post:
Cops are low-life POS. period.

Were you being sarcastic or isn't that name calling?

Yes, I did say that cops are POS, and I meant it. No, I have not called an officer a name. I said that cops are POS. That's the same as calling elephant huge and ugly. All snakes are mean and deadly, well most of them. Classifying is not singling out one and calling one a name. I classified cops as POS, not any individual cop. I put all of them into a class. I did not call any one cop by name, nor call any one cop a name.

 

[Sonny Clark]

Cops aren't GOD almighty. They break more laws than anyone else. Why should anyone bow down to them? Are they about questioning?

How about so you dont get your dumbass shot?
Save the bullshit for the court room.

So, you're now in to name calling and personal attacks to express your case? WOW. Why not just keep the conversation civil and on an adult level? There's no call for childish name calling and personal attacks. This is just a conversation, not war or a life or death situation. Calm down and be adult and civil.

You just called all cops a pieces of shit. I would hardly call that being civil.
You have obviously had some bad experiences with them to feel that way.

Yes, I called then POS, and meant it. I'm smart enough to read and keep up with events. I know what they do, and why they do it. It's common knowledge and on the internet and news every day. I feel that way because I live in reality, and not a fairy tail world. One would have to be dumb not to know what's going on considered how much it's plastered all over the news daily. I've never been in prison or convicted of a crime if that's what you mean. But, I have been given several BS quota tickets in my life.

Persecution complex.

Nope. Not at all. No complex here. Just calling it like I see it. Obviously, I have just cause since the news is feeding it to us daily. It happens all across this country daily. We can't ignore it and bury our heads in the sand and pretend that it doesn't happen.

 

[emilynghiem]

You just called all cops a pieces of shit. I would hardly call that being civil.
You have obviously had some bad experiences with them to feel that way.

Yes, I called then POS, and meant it. I'm smart enough to read and keep up with events. I know what they do, and why they do it. It's common knowledge and on the internet and news every day. I feel that way because I live in reality, and not a fairy tail world. One would have to be dumb not to know what's going on considered how much it's plastered all over the news daily. I've never been in prison or convicted of a crime if that's what you mean. But, I have been given several BS quota tickets in my life.

Okay Sonny Clark thanks for explaining which makes this a lot easier to understand
so you answered your own question!
The way your experience colors your language where you paint all cops with the same broad brush
This is "projection" and that's what also causes people to name call and not be civil as you asked.
The negative emotions are attached and associated/projected onto any person or group connected with that bad experience.

If you've never or hardly interacted with any cops who did their jobs correctly,
like never having to shoot but always disarming and defusing conflicts peaceably which is the ideal,
you don't even consider those when you think about cops.

So this is the same mistake that cops or politicians makes
when they only think of a person by group stereotype and react to that stereotype.

the problem is mutual, so your perception is similar to how the other side sees it.
You are both projecting onto each other, based on negative experiences that in your mind "outweigh"
the other people who don't act that way and don't fit your perceived stereotype.

this is what causes cops to get out of control if they go by stereotype and don't see the person isn't like that.

This is actually a good key to understanding what is happening,
Sonny if you can understand how your thinking is different from mine,
who doesn't see all cops as the bad kind, but can read the difference between
the abusive and law abiding officers who enforce policies peacefully and fairly,
then you can understand what is going through the
mind of a cop who sees all crooks as dangerous "POS" and doesn't stop
to assess if this particular person is or is not dangerous, mentally ill, etc.

Sonny, beware, that people attract the same mindsets. Positive attracts positive and negative attracts negative.

If you think of cops as all abusive POS garbage, they may see you and others as all less then themselves and deserving to be kicked to the curb.

If you want cops to see people for who we are, not grouped as one negative stereotype,
if you can find the key to this change in perception on your side,
you can help others to do the same thing. So you can undo the negative programming
that makes these cops "not think" and just act abusively by treating all people the same when we're not. Does this make sense?

 

[Sonny Clark]

You just called all cops a pieces of shit. I would hardly call that being civil.
You have obviously had some bad experiences with them to feel that way.

Yes, I called then POS, and meant it. I'm smart enough to read and keep up with events. I know what they do, and why they do it. It's common knowledge and on the internet and news every day. I feel that way because I live in reality, and not a fairy tail world. One would have to be dumb not to know what's going on considered how much it's plastered all over the news daily. I've never been in prison or convicted of a crime if that's what you mean. But, I have been given several BS quota tickets in my life.

Okay Sonny Clark thanks for explaining which makes this a lot easier to understand
so you answered your own question!
The way your experience colors your language where you paint all cops with the same broad brush
This is "projection" and that's what also causes people to name call and not be civil as you asked.
The negative emotions are attached and associated/projected onto any person or group connected with that bad experience.

If you've never or hardly interacted with any cops who did their jobs correctly,
like never having to shoot but always disarming and defusing conflicts peaceably which is the ideal,
you don't even consider those when you think about cops.

So this is the same mistake that cops or politicians makes
when they only think of a person by group stereotype and react to that stereotype.

the problem is mutual, so your perception is similar to how the other side sees it.
You are both projecting onto each other, based on negative experiences that in your mind "outweigh"
the other people who don't act that way and don't fit your perceived stereotype.

this is what causes cops to get out of control if they go by stereotype and don't see the person isn't like that.

Cops have choices other than cold blooded murder. It's different when someone is armed and cops kill them. But, killing an unarmed 12 year old, a 92 year old woman in Lithia Springs Georgia, a 70 year old unarmed man stopped for a traffic ticket, etc. etc. etc etc. _ I can see shooting someone armed and dangerous. I can't justify killing a 12 year old boy playing in the park, or an unarmed 92 year old woman in her own house, which by the way was the wrong house to begin with. Defend them all you want, but people aren't fabricating these stories, they're real. It happens every day somewhere in this country.

 

[Sonny Clark]

If it comes to that, I don't see why the cops can't just shoot them in the leg. No, instead they gotta shoot them ten times in the fucking chest like they never fucking shot anything before. Fucking panzy ass bitches.

I mean if the suspect is aiming a gun at you, fuck yeah shoot him right between the eyes, or the heart. Make that shit precise. Otherwise demonstrate some restraint. Some control. Some respect for Life.

​

What's happening here? Spring break and every twelve year old is screaming their fag heads off about how "mean" the cops are?
PI jerk-off.

Cops are low-life POS. period.

Hi Sonny Clark
Are you saying that about ALL cops or just the ones abusing their power and creating this bad image and problem?

Of all the police brutality cases and deaths of officers I've seen,
here is one that I found especially critical to review for the purpose of earlier intervention, prevention and correction:
Sgt. Joslyn Johnson Widow of HPD Officer Rodney Johnson - Today s Widow

Rodney Johnson was killed by an illegal immigrant, previously deported and with a criminal record,
he stopped for driving drunk (thus possible saving the lives of the kids in the car with this criminally ill man).

Because the shooter was shown to have physical brain impairment, and was argued to be not a threat to society,
he got life in prison. Even though he later escaped with 4 other inmates, before they were caught.

This case was seen as a threat to officers, that it made it okay to shoot to kill them if you could argue
you were mentally ill, even though this man was not even a legal citizen, but was deported of illegal status and had a criminal record. He did not receive help, and it cost an officer his life.

His widow who is also a police officer, lobbied for better protections such as two police per patrol car and not lone officers.

My main concern is catching mental illness when someone is known to be a danger and not able to comply with laws.

How can we achieve this goal if one side says "all cops are garbage"
and the other side assumes the poor at-risk populations are "enabling thugs."

Aren't we putting people at risk if we DON'T address the criminal attitudes, wherever these are found,
and quit blaming 'all one side or the other' which hides the problems so these crooks and sick people go unchecked.

Killing a 12 year old playing the park is not addressing criminals. Killing unarmed citizens is not addressing criminals. Killing 92 year old unarmed women is not addressing criminals. Killing a man coming home from grocery shopping and walking up the stairs to his apartment is not addressing criminals. It happens somewhere in this country every single day. Keep your eye on the news and follow the headlines and see for yourself what cops do every single day. They do everything from writing BS quota tickets to cold blooded murder. And they do everything that they arrest other people for doing. Defend them if you want, but I live in reality and not a fairy tale worlds where cops are the good guys.

 

[Pop23]

We can clear that up right now. Was it the vid of the gentle giant grabbing the store clerk by the throat and shoving him into a display?
Because thats a clear cut case of assault.

Post your video and I'll tell you if it's the same one that I saw. The one I saw showed a push, no actual harm done. I never saw one where someone was actually hit or hospitalized. I saw a push with no bodily harm. But, show your video and I'll tell you if I see assault that warrants cold blooded murder.

It doesnt matter what you think. He grabbed him by the throat and implied bodily harm. That is a felony.

Do you have the video? Yes or no? Was he executed for taking cigars? Did he put someone in intensive care in the hospital? Did he disable someone for life? Was killing him justified for stealing a few cigars? Was there any other way to handle it? Could he have been arrested and tried in a court of law? Was murder the only course of action?

There was no murder, both a grand jury and the Justice department agreed to that.

Yes, there was another way that this could have ended without the death. That is, MB submitting to a lawful order.

There was no trial. No proof other the word of the officer. And, he could've been arrested and jailed. The officer could've called for back up. The officer could've followed him until assistance arrived. There were several other ways it could've been handled besides murder.

AND

MB could have submitted to a lawful order

See how easy the world really works

 

[Sonny Clark]

If it comes to that, I don't see why the cops can't just shoot them in the leg. No, instead they gotta shoot them ten times in the fucking chest like they never fucking shot anything before. Fucking panzy ass bitches.

I mean if the suspect is aiming a gun at you, fuck yeah shoot him right between the eyes, or the heart. Make that shit precise. Otherwise demonstrate some restraint. Some control. Some respect for Life.

​

What's happening here? Spring break and every twelve year old is screaming their fag heads off about how "mean" the cops are?
PI jerk-off.

Cops are low-life POS. period.

Been arrested a lot have you?

Nope, I behave myself. I haven't been to prison nor convicted of a crime. I don't bother anyone and mind my own business.

 

[emilynghiem]

"How are cops supposed to know if their attacker is armed or not?"

Wrong question.

The correct questions:

Why are situations allowed to escalate to the point where deadly forced is perceived as necessary.

What occasions police officers to even come into contact with these persons – is stopping or questioning even warranted.

Many of these incidents occur in the context of exceedingly minor alleged crimes, where neither law enforcement or anyone in the general public are in imminent danger.

The incident in Wisconsin this Friday is typical, where there was no good reason for the officer to pursue the suspect based only on anonymous phone calls of an alleged battery, and where the officer himself didn't witness a crime; once the suspect had left the area of the alleged battery and was no longer a danger to the general public or law enforcement, no further action was warranted on the part of the officer.

Dear C_Clayton_Jones
I agree that we should look at preventing the conflict from escalating to the use of force to begin with.
But that starts with CITIZENS agreeing to follow laws and comply with law enforcement.
It's a two way street.
If you want police to follow the rules, isn't it only fair that CITIZENS all agree to follow the laws and not break them?
That's where prevention comes in, and I believe you are on the right track with this, but need to take it through to conclusion.

I'm glad we agree on something, though I would take it even further.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

How about so you dont get your dumbass shot?
Save the bullshit for the court room.

So, you're now in to name calling and personal attacks to express your case? WOW. Why not just keep the conversation civil and on an adult level? There's no call for childish name calling and personal attacks. This is just a conversation, not war or a life or death situation. Calm down and be adult and civil.

You just called all cops a pieces of shit. I would hardly call that being civil.
You have obviously had some bad experiences with them to feel that way.

Yes, I called then POS, and meant it. I'm smart enough to read and keep up with events. I know what they do, and why they do it. It's common knowledge and on the internet and news every day. I feel that way because I live in reality, and not a fairy tail world. One would have to be dumb not to know what's going on considered how much it's plastered all over the news daily. I've never been in prison or convicted of a crime if that's what you mean. But, I have been given several BS quota tickets in my life.

Persecution complex.

Nope. Not at all. No complex here. Just calling it like I see it. Obviously, I have just cause since the news is feeding it to us daily. It happens all across this country daily. We can't ignore it and bury our heads in the sand and pretend that it doesn't happen.

You know the police have been shooting criminals for hundreds of years right?
Why is it now news?

 

[Sonny Clark]

Post your video and I'll tell you if it's the same one that I saw. The one I saw showed a push, no actual harm done. I never saw one where someone was actually hit or hospitalized. I saw a push with no bodily harm. But, show your video and I'll tell you if I see assault that warrants cold blooded murder.

It doesnt matter what you think. He grabbed him by the throat and implied bodily harm. That is a felony.

Do you have the video? Yes or no? Was he executed for taking cigars? Did he put someone in intensive care in the hospital? Did he disable someone for life? Was killing him justified for stealing a few cigars? Was there any other way to handle it? Could he have been arrested and tried in a court of law? Was murder the only course of action?

There was no murder, both a grand jury and the Justice department agreed to that.

Yes, there was another way that this could have ended without the death. That is, MB submitting to a lawful order.

There was no trial. No proof other the word of the officer. And, he could've been arrested and jailed. The officer could've called for back up. The officer could've followed him until assistance arrived. There were several other ways it could've been handled besides murder.

AND

MB could have submitted to a lawful order

See how easy the world really works

Maybe so, I agree. But, still, there was no cause to murder him. The cops could've arrested him and tried him in a court of law. There were other ways to handle the situation since he was unarmed.

 

[Sonny Clark]

"How are cops supposed to know if their attacker is armed or not?"

Wrong question.

The correct questions:

Why are situations allowed to escalate to the point where deadly forced is perceived as necessary.

What occasions police officers to even come into contact with these persons – is stopping or questioning even warranted.

Many of these incidents occur in the context of exceedingly minor alleged crimes, where neither law enforcement or anyone in the general public are in imminent danger.

The incident in Wisconsin this Friday is typical, where there was no good reason for the officer to pursue the suspect based only on anonymous phone calls of an alleged battery, and where the officer himself didn't witness a crime; once the suspect had left the area of the alleged battery and was no longer a danger to the general public or law enforcement, no further action was warranted on the part of the officer.

Dear C_Clayton_Jones
I agree that we should look at preventing the conflict from escalating to the use of force to begin with.
But that starts with CITIZENS agreeing to follow laws and comply with law enforcement.
It's a two way street.
If you want police to follow the rules, isn't it only fair that CITIZENS all agree to follow the laws and not break them?
That's where prevention comes in, and I believe you are on the right track with this, but need to take it through to conclusion.

I'm glad we agree on something, though I would take it even further.

And don't forget that cops break the same laws they arrest us for. They aren't saints that do no wrong. The steal, assault, murder, rape, molest children, lie and cover up for each other, take bribes from drug dealers and pimps, and other crimes that they arrest John Q. Public for.

 

[Sonny Clark]

So, you're now in to name calling and personal attacks to express your case? WOW. Why not just keep the conversation civil and on an adult level? There's no call for childish name calling and personal attacks. This is just a conversation, not war or a life or death situation. Calm down and be adult and civil.

You just called all cops a pieces of shit. I would hardly call that being civil.
You have obviously had some bad experiences with them to feel that way.

Yes, I called then POS, and meant it. I'm smart enough to read and keep up with events. I know what they do, and why they do it. It's common knowledge and on the internet and news every day. I feel that way because I live in reality, and not a fairy tail world. One would have to be dumb not to know what's going on considered how much it's plastered all over the news daily. I've never been in prison or convicted of a crime if that's what you mean. But, I have been given several BS quota tickets in my life.

Persecution complex.

Nope. Not at all. No complex here. Just calling it like I see it. Obviously, I have just cause since the news is feeding it to us daily. It happens all across this country daily. We can't ignore it and bury our heads in the sand and pretend that it doesn't happen.

You know the police have been shooting criminals for hundreds of years right?
Why is it now news?

Yes, they have. But, they are now shooting unarmed citizens, children, old people, and disabled people. All unarmed and could've been handled differently. They have made news headlines because it's getting totally out of hand, and we have more people with cameras and spread the word rapidly on the internet.

 

[emilynghiem]

You just called all cops a pieces of shit. I would hardly call that being civil.
You have obviously had some bad experiences with them to feel that way.

Yes, I called then POS, and meant it. I'm smart enough to read and keep up with events. I know what they do, and why they do it. It's common knowledge and on the internet and news every day. I feel that way because I live in reality, and not a fairy tail world. One would have to be dumb not to know what's going on considered how much it's plastered all over the news daily. I've never been in prison or convicted of a crime if that's what you mean. But, I have been given several BS quota tickets in my life.

Okay Sonny Clark thanks for explaining which makes this a lot easier to understand
so you answered your own question!
The way your experience colors your language where you paint all cops with the same broad brush
This is "projection" and that's what also causes people to name call and not be civil as you asked.
The negative emotions are attached and associated/projected onto any person or group connected with that bad experience.

If you've never or hardly interacted with any cops who did their jobs correctly,
like never having to shoot but always disarming and defusing conflicts peaceably which is the ideal,
you don't even consider those when you think about cops.

So this is the same mistake that cops or politicians makes
when they only think of a person by group stereotype and react to that stereotype.

the problem is mutual, so your perception is similar to how the other side sees it.
You are both projecting onto each other, based on negative experiences that in your mind "outweigh"
the other people who don't act that way and don't fit your perceived stereotype.

this is what causes cops to get out of control if they go by stereotype and don't see the person isn't like that.

Cops have choices other than cold blooded murder. It's different when someone is armed and cops kill them. But, killing an unarmed 12 year old, a 92 year old woman in Lithia Springs Georgia, a 70 year old unarmed man stopped for a traffic ticket, etc. etc. etc etc. _ I can see shooting someone armed and dangerous. I can't justify killing a 12 year old boy playing in the park, or an unarmed 92 year old woman in her own house, which by the way was the wrong house to begin with. Defend them all you want, but people aren't fabricating these stories, they're real. It happens every day somewhere in this country.

Hi Sonny Clark
Thanks for being fair and honest and stating things transparently.
This sharing is exactly what is needed for honest resolution. I wish more people could explain as civilly as you do.

What you post above is like you said: there are two sides.

And yes, the other side sees similar to what you see:
that there are "lawless thugs" that have no respect and will just kill.
There are "POS" who SAY they are complying
but then turn around and shoot an officer dead.

It goes both ways. You are just as aware of the abuses by cops, as the "other side" is aware of abuses by thugs.

Cops also don't deserve to get the death penalty either, even as you assess they are all POS.
POS is not a capital offense any more than pushing someone to steal from a store.
Both are supposed to get due process before convicting them.
And from what I hear, putting a cop in jail can mean the death penalty because of the chances of getting lynched.

Again you answer your own question.

If you don't like people saying a felony is justification for shooting someone to death,
then being a POS police officer isn't justification either for "shooting an officer on sight."

Do you see how neither is following the law? neither is justification for breaking laws?

Do you see how what you said is 100% on target -- there are two sides going on here?

 

[Sonny Clark]

You just called all cops a pieces of shit. I would hardly call that being civil.
You have obviously had some bad experiences with them to feel that way.

Yes, I called then POS, and meant it. I'm smart enough to read and keep up with events. I know what they do, and why they do it. It's common knowledge and on the internet and news every day. I feel that way because I live in reality, and not a fairy tail world. One would have to be dumb not to know what's going on considered how much it's plastered all over the news daily. I've never been in prison or convicted of a crime if that's what you mean. But, I have been given several BS quota tickets in my life.

Okay Sonny Clark thanks for explaining which makes this a lot easier to understand
so you answered your own question!
The way your experience colors your language where you paint all cops with the same broad brush
This is "projection" and that's what also causes people to name call and not be civil as you asked.
The negative emotions are attached and associated/projected onto any person or group connected with that bad experience.

If you've never or hardly interacted with any cops who did their jobs correctly,
like never having to shoot but always disarming and defusing conflicts peaceably which is the ideal,
you don't even consider those when you think about cops.

So this is the same mistake that cops or politicians makes
when they only think of a person by group stereotype and react to that stereotype.

the problem is mutual, so your perception is similar to how the other side sees it.
You are both projecting onto each other, based on negative experiences that in your mind "outweigh"
the other people who don't act that way and don't fit your perceived stereotype.

this is what causes cops to get out of control if they go by stereotype and don't see the person isn't like that.

Cops have choices other than cold blooded murder. It's different when someone is armed and cops kill them. But, killing an unarmed 12 year old, a 92 year old woman in Lithia Springs Georgia, a 70 year old unarmed man stopped for a traffic ticket, etc. etc. etc etc. _ I can see shooting someone armed and dangerous. I can't justify killing a 12 year old boy playing in the park, or an unarmed 92 year old woman in her own house, which by the way was the wrong house to begin with. Defend them all you want, but people aren't fabricating these stories, they're real. It happens every day somewhere in this country.

Hi Sonny Clark
Thanks for being fair and honest and stating things transparently.
This sharing is exactly what is needed for honest resolution. I wish more people could explain as civilly as you do.

What you post above is like you said: there are two sides.

And yes, the other side sees similar to what you see:
that there are "lawless thugs" that have no respect and will just kill.
There are "POS" who SAY they are complying
but then turn around and shoot an officer dead.

It goes both ways. You are just as aware of the abuses by cops, as the "other side" is aware of abuses by thugs.

Cops also don't deserve to get the death penalty either, even as you assess they are all POS.
POS is not a capital offense any more than pushing someone to steal from a store.
Both are supposed to get due process before convicting them.
And from what I hear, putting a cop in jail can mean the death penalty because of the chances of getting lynched.

Again you answer your own question.

If you don't like people saying a felony is justification for shooting someone to death,
then being a POS police officer isn't justification either for "shooting an officer on sight."

Do you see how neither is following the law? neither is justification for breaking laws?

Do you see how what you said is 100% on target -- there are two sides going on here?

Cops are sworn to protect and to serve, period. That doesn't include writing BS quota tickets, killing 12 year old kids playing in the park, old unarmed women and old men, the unarmed disabled, raping women, molesting children, stealing, lying to protect their fellow officers, taking bribes from drug dealers and pimps, or lying in court. In other words, they commit the same crimes they arrest others for. So, we should honor and respect them, do as they say, bow down to them, and let them off the hook when they break the law? Pleeeeeeease. Throw them in prison the same as a judge would sentence you or I to prison for breaking the law. They are NOT GOD, nor saints.

 

[Sonny Clark]

You just called all cops a pieces of shit. I would hardly call that being civil.
You have obviously had some bad experiences with them to feel that way.

Yes, I called then POS, and meant it. I'm smart enough to read and keep up with events. I know what they do, and why they do it. It's common knowledge and on the internet and news every day. I feel that way because I live in reality, and not a fairy tail world. One would have to be dumb not to know what's going on considered how much it's plastered all over the news daily. I've never been in prison or convicted of a crime if that's what you mean. But, I have been given several BS quota tickets in my life.

Okay Sonny Clark thanks for explaining which makes this a lot easier to understand
so you answered your own question!
The way your experience colors your language where you paint all cops with the same broad brush
This is "projection" and that's what also causes people to name call and not be civil as you asked.
The negative emotions are attached and associated/projected onto any person or group connected with that bad experience.

If you've never or hardly interacted with any cops who did their jobs correctly,
like never having to shoot but always disarming and defusing conflicts peaceably which is the ideal,
you don't even consider those when you think about cops.

So this is the same mistake that cops or politicians makes
when they only think of a person by group stereotype and react to that stereotype.

the problem is mutual, so your perception is similar to how the other side sees it.
You are both projecting onto each other, based on negative experiences that in your mind "outweigh"
the other people who don't act that way and don't fit your perceived stereotype.

this is what causes cops to get out of control if they go by stereotype and don't see the person isn't like that.

Cops have choices other than cold blooded murder. It's different when someone is armed and cops kill them. But, killing an unarmed 12 year old, a 92 year old woman in Lithia Springs Georgia, a 70 year old unarmed man stopped for a traffic ticket, etc. etc. etc etc. _ I can see shooting someone armed and dangerous. I can't justify killing a 12 year old boy playing in the park, or an unarmed 92 year old woman in her own house, which by the way was the wrong house to begin with. Defend them all you want, but people aren't fabricating these stories, they're real. It happens every day somewhere in this country.

Hi Sonny Clark
Thanks for being fair and honest and stating things transparently.
This sharing is exactly what is needed for honest resolution. I wish more people could explain as civilly as you do.

What you post above is like you said: there are two sides.

And yes, the other side sees similar to what you see:
that there are "lawless thugs" that have no respect and will just kill.
There are "POS" who SAY they are complying
but then turn around and shoot an officer dead.

It goes both ways. You are just as aware of the abuses by cops, as the "other side" is aware of abuses by thugs.

Cops also don't deserve to get the death penalty either, even as you assess they are all POS.
POS is not a capital offense any more than pushing someone to steal from a store.
Both are supposed to get due process before convicting them.
And from what I hear, putting a cop in jail can mean the death penalty because of the chances of getting lynched.

Again you answer your own question.

If you don't like people saying a felony is justification for shooting someone to death,
then being a POS police officer isn't justification either for "shooting an officer on sight."

Do you see how neither is following the law? neither is justification for breaking laws?

Do you see how what you said is 100% on target -- there are two sides going on here?

One example --- report-american-cops-deceptively-force-false-confessions-children-staggeringly-high-rate

 

[emilynghiem]

And don't forget that cops break the same laws they arrest us for. They aren't saints that do no wrong. The steal, assault, murder, rape, molest children, lie and cover up for each other, take bribes from drug dealers and pimps, and other crimes that they arrest John Q. Public for.

Yes Sonny Clark and I appreciate the consistent theme in your posts and threads that you want
law enforcement to be standard for all and not abused or excused where anyone is elevated to saint or immunity.

I share the same goal as you do, and glad we have this in common. it is the crux of what I believe is necessary
for the future of our country, govt and economy. Thank you for this, Sonny.

1. In order to enforce the laws, we must respect the same due process we want these cops to follow
So we cannot just accuse them all of acting rogue and treat them all as 'GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT'

We cannot punish entire groups by association, but each person is responsible for their own actions.
The same way you see Michael Brown didn't get due process and got punished based on the perception of the cop.

You rightly protest this, and the same is true for cops -- just because these cops here or there were abusive
does not give anyone the right to break laws and start abusing, shooting or disobeying ALL cops.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

2. the way to stop the abuses, and this HABIT of assuming "guilt until proven innocent"
is to bring together communities PER DISTRICT and screen out both the abusive cops,
the sick teachers, the criminally ill drug abusers who profit off addictions, etc.

By agreeing to follow laws CORRECTLY and respecting both DUE PROCESS and EQUAL PROTECTIONS
then we don't start down this road of "convicting people on sight" and then
acting as "judge jury and executioner" by meting out punishment based on OUR judgment.

See HPD Mission statement: The role of the police is to solve problems through the enforcement of laws, not through the imposition of judgement or punishment
http://www.isocracytx.net/ec/hpdmissn.gif

By all citizens and all police and teachers, parents and students, civil organizations and community members
AGREEING to the same Constitutional laws of due process, equal protections of rights and freedoms, and right to security in our persons, houses and effects, then NOBODY tolerates ANYONE abusing or breaking laws.

when the standard is consistent, then abusers can be weeded out and not mess it up for everyone else.

I agree with you, Sonny and SO GLAD to know this is one of your key issues!
Do you like the idea of teaching ALL citizens what the laws are to enforce,
so that people can hold police and govt accountable by agreeing to uphold the same laws?

I would LOVE to work with you to write letters to police chiefs and Governors
to implement REQUIRED Constitutional legal education for all citizens in order to stop abuses, crimes and corruption.

An empowered educated citizenry is the key, and again I am grateful and pleased to know you are on the right track with this point, that the citizens need to hold our police and govt in check, we need to know and enforce the laws.

Thanks, Sonny Clark!
I back you up in making a difference and turning this situation around.