How Black Were the Moors?

[Asclepias]

I've already answered that question. Black Africans built them after they dumped their culture as to adopt a successful one. The same one that ran clear across North Africa like a hot knife through butter. The reason the Arabs didn't go too far below the Sahara was the same reason Sub-Saharan Africa was inaccessible to the west before the invention of quinine. Either way, black culture had to be destroyed or converted before they could advance. North African culture was destroyed. North Western African culture converted.

Sorry guy. The Egyptians and the people of West African never lost their culture. I already explained to you that culture and religion were 2 separate things. You can pretend they are the same but we all know the truth. The people of Kush also never lost their culture nor some of the more ancient kingdoms in central and South Africa. Your lack of knowledge is astounding for someone that started off with so much promise. Ever heard of the Dogon that had continuously tracked Sirius B orbit before Europeans even knew about Sirius A? There is ancient knowledge in Africa your people have no clue about. As more of it is unearthed people like you will be forced to put on your working gloves permanently because moving goal post so much in the name of white denial gives you blisters I understand.

Africa is the "Dark continent" for a reason. There lack of history is largely lost due to the lack of ability to record their own history. North Africa is the exception. Why? because everyone and their mothers had conquered North Africa at one time or another. The Kingdoms of Central Africa thrived by adopting Islam, culture, and technology from the dominant Arab culture. That's why their kings made pilgrimages to Mecca. Indeed, the Arabs had a hard time going south of the Sahara because it was a graveyard for nonlocals due to malaria. They established trade nonetheless, from gold, to salt, to the Saharan Slave trade. At no time since Egypt did any place in Africa have a dominant world culture that others were attempting to emulate. In fact, Arab culture and African culture are two separate things, and African culture lost out due to the fact that they were irrelevant and contributed nothing to the advancement of man. As I said before, there were parts of Africa that had not invented the wheel by 1800. African cultures absent of Arab influence couldn't even invent a wooden sea faring vessel by the time the western world was operating steel vessels on steam and coal. Indeed, what made Africa a target of slave labor was the fact that they were weak and easily manipulated. The same goes for why the west had an easy time colonizing Africa after the invention of quinine.

Religions don't create cultures and cultures don't create religions you say? Every religion promotes a culture and every culture promotes a religion. Africans advanced themselves via two methods. 1: They were conquered by a more advanced culture. 2: They imitated the advanced culture.

So far the crux of your argument is based on an assortment of risible suppositions. Suppositions do not trump facts and science.

Supposition 1….Religion and culture is the same.
Not only is that willful ignorance it can be proven by simply taking a look around you. There are plenty of people that practice the Islamic faith here in the US and do not adhere to the customs of the Middle East which you claim are part of Islam.

Supposition 2 …..The African civilizations (you are aware of) were conquered in war so they must not be advanced.

This is the typical fall back when a white denialist discovers he is debating with a Black African that even somewhat knows his history. Its a dead giveaway that you feel destroying things is a sign of superiority. It took a Black genius to engineer the building of the Great Pyramid. Any idiot can push a button and launch a missile to destroy it. The question is who is actually smarter and more advanced? The savage that destroyed the work of art or the genius that created it?

Supposition 3…..Africa is devoid of civilizations of note.

Your opinion of what is considered advanced only counts to you. Your ignorance of the amount of civilizations known to exist and those yet to be discovered is amazing. Your mindset is defunct when you realize that it takes geniuses to keep complex things simple. Have you ever noticed that people only make things complex when it is difficult for them to understand knowledge? They do that to confuse you and make you think something is difficult when everyone knows that all knowledge is simple. Basically it is done to disguise the fact that they don’t really know what they are talking about themselves.

Supposition 4….Foreign invaders are the only reason Africans have achieved

This one is the funniest to me. I mean like really knee slapping funny. You still have not been able to explain to me why 2 of the top sites in ancient history for education are in the continent of Africa built by Black Africans. You expect people to believe that instead of building these prestigious education centers close to their strongholds of power they decided to give the credit and glory to outlying conquered posts manned by supposedly backwards people. No one believes that except people with and agenda and people that are ignorant. Which one are you?

 

[Samson]

I guess the clown that challenged me to start this thread is too afraid to show up. Anyone with some good pictures or links regarding evidence of Black Moors in Europe please post your findings. Pictures are worth a thousand words.

Image of a Moor on a gate in Germany

That could be Richard Simmons.

 

[Publius1787]

I've already answered that question. Black Africans built them after they dumped their culture as to adopt a successful one. The same one that ran clear across North Africa like a hot knife through butter. The reason the Arabs didn't go too far below the Sahara was the same reason Sub-Saharan Africa was inaccessible to the west before the invention of quinine. Either way, black culture had to be destroyed or converted before they could advance. North African culture was destroyed. North Western African culture converted.

Sorry guy. The Egyptians and the people of West African never lost their culture. I already explained to you that culture and religion were 2 separate things. You can pretend they are the same but we all know the truth. The people of Kush also never lost their culture nor some of the more ancient kingdoms in central and South Africa. Your lack of knowledge is astounding for someone that started off with so much promise. Ever heard of the Dogon that had continuously tracked Sirius B orbit before Europeans even knew about Sirius A? There is ancient knowledge in Africa your people have no clue about. As more of it is unearthed people like you will be forced to put on your working gloves permanently because moving goal post so much in the name of white denial gives you blisters I understand.

Fella, you have been smoked more thoroughly than a Memphis Hog. Major Kudos to [MENTION=27496]Publius1787[/MENTION] for having far more patience than I ever could to hand you your limp head on a platter with a side of facts.

You really ought to learn when to tap-out, and also realize the laughing emoticons are a tell of the total opposite as Publius also demonstrated quite handsomely.

Why thank you Pennywise. For the life of me I cannot understand why Afrocentric types adopt Arab culture as originally African as to make themselves fell better about their lack of history. I live in the now. It seems to me that Asc is attempting to ascribe nonexistent achievements to his "forefathers" as to make up of for his relative lack of current achievement. This also seems to be a problem in the larger lack community, that is to say, the reason we have things like black history month is to simply inspire blacks to achieve as other blacks have. What it does, however, is the exact opposite. It inspires living in the past and resting on the accomplishments of others as to prop up ones own self worth from the actions of more intuitive individuals. In Asc's case, however, he is making it up as he goes along as to fake a past that never existed so as to make himself feel better about his relative lack of achievement. The desperation inherent in his emoticons show exactly how much he relies on this false narrative toward his own self-esteem. Indeed, he will never advance himself unless he stops defending failed cultures and starts admiring cultures that are currently working. Cultural conservatism amid a losing culture is perhaps the worst thing a people can do to themselves, and yet, this is what he is promoting by looking to the non-achievements of an era long past.

 

[Publius1787]

Sorry guy. The Egyptians and the people of West African never lost their culture. I already explained to you that culture and religion were 2 separate things. You can pretend they are the same but we all know the truth. The people of Kush also never lost their culture nor some of the more ancient kingdoms in central and South Africa. Your lack of knowledge is astounding for someone that started off with so much promise. Ever heard of the Dogon that had continuously tracked Sirius B orbit before Europeans even knew about Sirius A? There is ancient knowledge in Africa your people have no clue about. As more of it is unearthed people like you will be forced to put on your working gloves permanently because moving goal post so much in the name of white denial gives you blisters I understand.

Africa is the "Dark continent" for a reason. There lack of history is largely lost due to the lack of ability to record their own history. North Africa is the exception. Why? because everyone and their mothers had conquered North Africa at one time or another. The Kingdoms of Central Africa thrived by adopting Islam, culture, and technology from the dominant Arab culture. That's why their kings made pilgrimages to Mecca. Indeed, the Arabs had a hard time going south of the Sahara because it was a graveyard for nonlocals due to malaria. They established trade nonetheless, from gold, to salt, to the Saharan Slave trade. At no time since Egypt did any place in Africa have a dominant world culture that others were attempting to emulate. In fact, Arab culture and African culture are two separate things, and African culture lost out due to the fact that they were irrelevant and contributed nothing to the advancement of man. As I said before, there were parts of Africa that had not invented the wheel by 1800. African cultures absent of Arab influence couldn't even invent a wooden sea faring vessel by the time the western world was operating steel vessels on steam and coal. Indeed, what made Africa a target of slave labor was the fact that they were weak and easily manipulated. The same goes for why the west had an easy time colonizing Africa after the invention of quinine.

Religions don't create cultures and cultures don't create religions you say? Every religion promotes a culture and every culture promotes a religion. Africans advanced themselves via two methods. 1: They were conquered by a more advanced culture. 2: They imitated the advanced culture.

So far the crux of your argument is based on an assortment of risible suppositions. Suppositions do not trump facts and science.

Supposition 1….Religion and culture is the same.
Not only is that willful ignorance it can be proven by simply taking a look around you. There are plenty of people that practice the Islamic faith here in the US and do not adhere to the customs of the Middle East which you claim are part of Islam.

Supposition 2 …..The African civilizations (you are aware of) were conquered in war so they must not be advanced.

This is the typical fall back when a white denialist discovers he is debating with a Black African that even somewhat knows his history. Its a dead giveaway that you feel destroying things is a sign of superiority. It took a Black genius to engineer the building of the Great Pyramid. Any idiot can push a button and launch a missile to destroy it. The question is who is actually smarter and more advanced? The savage that destroyed the work of art or the genius that created it?

Supposition 3…..Africa is devoid of civilizations of note.

Your opinion of what is considered advanced only counts to you. Your ignorance of the amount of civilizations known to exist and those yet to be discovered is amazing. Your mindset is defunct when you realize that it takes geniuses to keep complex things simple. Have you ever noticed that people only make things complex when it is difficult for them to understand knowledge? They do that to confuse you and make you think something is difficult when everyone knows that all knowledge is simple. Basically it is done to disguise the fact that they don’t really know what they are talking about themselves.

Supposition 4….Foreign invaders are the only reason Africans have achieved

This one is the funniest to me. I mean like really knee slapping funny. You still have not been able to explain to me why 2 of the top sites in ancient history for education are in the continent of Africa built by Black Africans. You expect people to believe that instead of building these prestigious education centers close to their strongholds of power they decided to give the credit and glory to outlying conquered posts manned by supposedly backwards people. No one believes that except people with and agenda and people that are ignorant. Which one are you?

1. You cannot count a minority as a dominant culture, unless, that minority is invading you and forcing you to convert. Lets compare apples to apples please.

2. Have I not conceded ancient Egypt as the only culture of world repute from Africa? I did, and yet, you cannot name another. And yes, cultures get dominated for a reason.

3. I agree. I would love to be an archeologist is Western Africa. It would fit in nicely with my history degree. However, few cultures left anything behind. Those that did, even fewer had a written language. Mud and grass huts, unlike concrete, are indeed hard to discover. However, by using the word "advanced" please understand that I mean "relatively advanced as opposed to the dominant cultures. of the day." I this case, the Arabs who ran amuck of a very weak and very culturally backwards North Africa. The reason why Africa has no civilization of repute is because those who advanced themselves mimicked the more dominant Arab culture. Name one dominant African culture, save ACIENT Egypt, that everyone else was attempting to mimic in light of their more advanced culture. You can't because there were none, is none, and are none.

4. Yes, the credit and glory belongs to those who the black Africans were trying to mimic. In this case, they were mimicking the Arabs. That's why they spoke Arab, they wrote Arab, they studied the Quran, they practiced Islam, and they made pilgrimages to Mecca. In fact, their kings made pilgrimages to Mecca. Why convert your religion and adopt the culture of another if you are doing something right? That question answers itself. In any case, If the Arabs did not dominate North Africa where would the ISLAMIC madrassas at Timbuktu be today? Nowhere! Socrates had a 1300 year jump on the 12th century Timbuktu when he created the Academy anyway so I can't really sympathize with its significance.

Egypt, doesn't look black to me. Ask these people if they consider themselves "African." How did they get in North Africa anyway? Oh, right, they conquered it many many many years ago. Technologically speaking, how is North Africa historically doing under Islamic rule as opposed to other African countries under black rule? No need to answer that question. We all know what the answer is.

 

[Asclepias]

1. You cannot count a minority as a dominant culture, unless, that minority is invading you and forcing you to convert. Lets compare apples to apples please.

2. Have I not conceded ancient Egypt as the only culture of world repute from Africa? I did, and yet, you cannot name another. And yes, cultures get dominated for a reason.

3. I agree. I would love to be an archeologist is Western Africa. It would fit in nicely with my history degree. However, few cultures left anything behind. Those that did, even fewer had a written language. Mud and grass huts, unlike concrete, are indeed hard to discover. However, by using the word "advanced" please understand that I mean "relatively advanced as opposed to the dominant cultures. of the day." I this case, the Arabs who ran amuck of a very weak and very culturally backwards North Africa. The reason why Africa has no civilization of repute is because those who advanced themselves mimicked the more dominant Arab culture. Name one dominant African culture, save ACIENT Egypt, that everyone else was attempting to mimic in light of their more advanced culture. You can't because there were none, is none, and are none.

4. Yes, the credit and glory belongs to those who the black Africans were trying to mimic. In this case, they were mimicking the Arabs. That's why they spoke Arab, they wrote Arab, they studied the Quran, they practiced Islam, and they made pilgrimages to Mecca. In fact, their kings made pilgrimages to Mecca. Why convert your religion and adopt the culture of another if you are doing something right? That question answers itself. In any case, If the Arabs did not dominate North Africa where would the ISLAMIC madrassas at Timbuktu be today? Nowhere! Socrates had a 1300 year jump on the 12th century Timbuktu when he created the Academy anyway so I can't really sympathize with its significance.

Egypt, doesn't look black to me. Ask these people if they consider themselves "African." How did they get in North Africa anyway? Oh, right, they conquered it many many many years ago. Technologically speaking, how is North Africa historically doing under Islamic rule as opposed to other African countries under black rule? No need to answer that question. We all know what the answer is.

1. Thats like the 12th time you have moved the goal post. i notice these things. What does majority or minority have to do with it? If the culture is the same as the Islamic religion it would be practiced everywhere. You cant have it both ways. I wont allow it.

2. Yes you did concede Egypt if by that you mean you were wrong about it being just one of many advanced civilizations Africa gave birth to and advanced by Black Africans. However, you seem determined to avoid explaining the occurrence of the University of Sankore that is all out of whack in regards to traditional occurrences when an invading force influences another civilization to advancement. The conquered people do not build more prestigious institutions of higher learning than the conquerors. Typically.

3. I noticed you have invoked play #12 from the white denial rule book. "When all else fails claim you are a expert in the subject discussed backed by various degrees." I too would love more than anything to be an archeologist on the continent of Africa. Satellites are doing amazing jobs finding ancient roads and centers of trade long forgotten and buried under the sand in the Sahara. Your supposition with writing scripts again fails against common sense and fact. You also seem to lack the intelligence to appreciate the use of mud in the construction of homes in such climates found in Africa. Now being a historian why would you not know these climates are extremely harsh on anything being left behind?

4. Yes give those Black Africans credit for learning a new language and writing script becoming bilingual. Pure genius wasn't it? Kind of hard to practice Islam without knowing the language at that time. Usually when you convert to another religion its because you see something you like. Has nothing to do with turning on the switch and now suddenly I can count to 10. Seeing that the original Arabs were Black I don't understand why that confuses you. If Islam never entered North Africa it would probably be Christian instead of Islamic. I think you meant West Africa? As in Mali? Where the university of Sankore is located? Still trying to take Black Africa and move it north I see. I'm pretty sure it would have been there under another religion. Do you have evidence to the contrary or just more correlation?

 

[Asclepias]

Egypt, doesn't look black to me. Ask these people if they consider themselves "African." How did they get in North Africa anyway? Oh, right, they conquered it many many many years ago. Technologically speaking, how is North Africa historically doing under Islamic rule as opposed to other African countries under black rule? No need to answer that question. We all know what the answer is.

I should address this. The US doesn't look Native American to me. Does it to you? Is that not amazing? Dude that was really weak. i'm disappointed at such blatant signs of desperation. Typically when you get invaded and another culture takes over you become the minority as the real Egyptians in south Egypt have. Take a gander at these real egyptians.

 

[Publius1787]

So far the crux of your argument is based on an assortment of risible suppositions. Suppositions do not trump facts and science.

Supposition 1….Religion and culture is the same.
Not only is that willful ignorance it can be proven by simply taking a look around you. There are plenty of people that practice the Islamic faith here in the US and do not adhere to the customs of the Middle East which you claim are part of Islam.

Supposition 2 …..The African civilizations (you are aware of) were conquered in war so they must not be advanced.

This is the typical fall back when a white denialist discovers he is debating with a Black African that even somewhat knows his history. Its a dead giveaway that you feel destroying things is a sign of superiority. It took a Black genius to engineer the building of the Great Pyramid. Any idiot can push a button and launch a missile to destroy it. The question is who is actually smarter and more advanced? The savage that destroyed the work of art or the genius that created it?

Supposition 3…..Africa is devoid of civilizations of note.

Your opinion of what is considered advanced only counts to you. Your ignorance of the amount of civilizations known to exist and those yet to be discovered is amazing. Your mindset is defunct when you realize that it takes geniuses to keep complex things simple. Have you ever noticed that people only make things complex when it is difficult for them to understand knowledge? They do that to confuse you and make you think something is difficult when everyone knows that all knowledge is simple. Basically it is done to disguise the fact that they don’t really know what they are talking about themselves.

Supposition 4….Foreign invaders are the only reason Africans have achieved

This one is the funniest to me. I mean like really knee slapping funny. You still have not been able to explain to me why 2 of the top sites in ancient history for education are in the continent of Africa built by Black Africans. You expect people to believe that instead of building these prestigious education centers close to their strongholds of power they decided to give the credit and glory to outlying conquered posts manned by supposedly backwards people. No one believes that except people with and agenda and people that are ignorant. Which one are you?

1. You cannot count a minority as a dominant culture, unless, that minority is invading you and forcing you to convert. Lets compare apples to apples please.

2. Have I not conceded ancient Egypt as the only culture of world repute from Africa? I did, and yet, you cannot name another. And yes, cultures get dominated for a reason.

3. I agree. I would love to be an archeologist is Western Africa. It would fit in nicely with my history degree. However, few cultures left anything behind. Those that did, even fewer had a written language. Mud and grass huts, unlike concrete, are indeed hard to discover. However, by using the word "advanced" please understand that I mean "relatively advanced as opposed to the dominant cultures. of the day." I this case, the Arabs who ran amuck of a very weak and very culturally backwards North Africa. The reason why Africa has no civilization of repute is because those who advanced themselves mimicked the more dominant Arab culture. Name one dominant African culture, save ACIENT Egypt, that everyone else was attempting to mimic in light of their more advanced culture. You can't because there were none, is none, and are none.

4. Yes, the credit and glory belongs to those who the black Africans were trying to mimic. In this case, they were mimicking the Arabs. That's why they spoke Arab, they wrote Arab, they studied the Quran, they practiced Islam, and they made pilgrimages to Mecca. In fact, their kings made pilgrimages to Mecca. Why convert your religion and adopt the culture of another if you are doing something right? That question answers itself. In any case, If the Arabs did not dominate North Africa where would the ISLAMIC madrassas at Timbuktu be today? Nowhere! Socrates had a 1300 year jump on the 12th century Timbuktu when he created the Academy anyway so I can't really sympathize with its significance.

Egypt, doesn't look black to me. Ask these people if they consider themselves "African." How did they get in North Africa anyway? Oh, right, they conquered it many many many years ago. Technologically speaking, how is North Africa historically doing under Islamic rule as opposed to other African countries under black rule? No need to answer that question. We all know what the answer is.

1. Thats like the 12th time you have moved the goal post. i notice these things. What does majority or minority have to do with it? If the culture is the same as the Islamic religion it would be practised everywhere. You cant have it both ways. I wont allow it.

2. Yes you did concede Egypt if by that you mean you were wrong about it being just one of many advanced civilizations Africa gave birth to and adavnced by Black Africans. However, you seem determined to avoid explaining the occurance of the University of Sankore that is all out of whack in regards to traditional occurances when an invading force influences another civilization to advancement. The conquered people do not build more prestigious institutions of higher learning than the conquerors. Typically.

3. I noticed you have invoked play #12 from the white denial rule book. "When all else fails claim you are a expert in the subject discussed backed by various degrees." I too would love more than anything to be an archeologist on the continent of Africa. Satellites are doing amazing jobs finding ancient roads and centers of trade long forgotten and buried under the sand in the Sahara. Your supposition with writing scripts again fails against common sense and fact. You also seem to lack the intelligence to appreciate the use of mud in the construction of homes in such climates found in Africa. Now being a historian why would you not know these climates are extremely harsh on anything being left behind.

4. Yes give those Black Africans credit for learning a new language and writing script becoming bilingual. Pure genius wasn't it? Kind of hard to practice Islam without knowing the language at that time. Usually when you convert to another religion its because you see something you like. Has nothing to do with turning on the switch and now suddenly I can count to 10. Seeing that the original Arabs were Black I don't understand why that confuses you. If Islam never entered North Africa it would probably be Christian instead of Islamic. I think you meant West Africa? As in Mali? Where the university of Sankore is located? Still trying to take Black Africa and move it north I see. I'm pretty sure it would have been there under another religion. Do you have evidence to the contrary or just more correlation?

1. You made an example of Muslims in the United States. I countered by asking that you compare apples to apples. No goalpost moved there until you posted this response.

2. LOL, Timbuktu University established by Africans 12th Century vs. Al-Azhar University established 10th Century. They didn't even do a good job mimicking Arab culture. The only reason the place is still in existence is because no one cared to conquer a barrenly poor region.

3. The Arab/Islamic influence is accurate. I agree with nearly everything else.

4. Once again, no one was attempting to mimic black African culture. Black Africans who weren't forced by the sword to convert and practice Islam were adopting a winning model. Nothing wrong with that. They had to if they wanted to be relevant, because, they weren't. You can call them advanced if you like, pointing to how they were able to copy someone else, however, that just shows that they copied a working model without a relevant model of their own. If it weren't for a desert and malaria the Arabs would have conquered West-Africa as well. That came easily enough when the West conquered ALL of Africa. At no time in African history since Egypt had black Africa been a major player on the world stage. End of story.

 

[Publius1787]

Egypt, doesn't look black to me. Ask these people if they consider themselves "African." How did they get in North Africa anyway? Oh, right, they conquered it many many many years ago. Technologically speaking, how is North Africa historically doing under Islamic rule as opposed to other African countries under black rule? No need to answer that question. We all know what the answer is.

I should address this. The US doesn't look Native American to me. Does it to you? Is that not amazing? Dude that was really weak. i'm disappointed at such blatant signs of desperation. Typically when you get invaded and another culture takes over you become the minority as the real Egyptians in south Egypt have. Take a gander at these real egyptians.

Huh? Native Americans were conquered by western settlers just as North Africa was conquered by Arabs. I don't see your point. What of southern Egypt? As compared to the "non-real Egyptians" who conquered them long ago?

 

[Publius1787]

What Black Africa meant to the Arabs

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJhSejBDTPI]Muslim Black slavery - Islam slave history of Black Africa - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Asclepias]

1. You cannot count a minority as a dominant culture, unless, that minority is invading you and forcing you to convert. Lets compare apples to apples please.

2. Have I not conceded ancient Egypt as the only culture of world repute from Africa? I did, and yet, you cannot name another. And yes, cultures get dominated for a reason.

3. I agree. I would love to be an archeologist is Western Africa. It would fit in nicely with my history degree. However, few cultures left anything behind. Those that did, even fewer had a written language. Mud and grass huts, unlike concrete, are indeed hard to discover. However, by using the word "advanced" please understand that I mean "relatively advanced as opposed to the dominant cultures. of the day." I this case, the Arabs who ran amuck of a very weak and very culturally backwards North Africa. The reason why Africa has no civilization of repute is because those who advanced themselves mimicked the more dominant Arab culture. Name one dominant African culture, save ACIENT Egypt, that everyone else was attempting to mimic in light of their more advanced culture. You can't because there were none, is none, and are none.

4. Yes, the credit and glory belongs to those who the black Africans were trying to mimic. In this case, they were mimicking the Arabs. That's why they spoke Arab, they wrote Arab, they studied the Quran, they practiced Islam, and they made pilgrimages to Mecca. In fact, their kings made pilgrimages to Mecca. Why convert your religion and adopt the culture of another if you are doing something right? That question answers itself. In any case, If the Arabs did not dominate North Africa where would the ISLAMIC madrassas at Timbuktu be today? Nowhere! Socrates had a 1300 year jump on the 12th century Timbuktu when he created the Academy anyway so I can't really sympathize with its significance.

Egypt, doesn't look black to me. Ask these people if they consider themselves "African." How did they get in North Africa anyway? Oh, right, they conquered it many many many years ago. Technologically speaking, how is North Africa historically doing under Islamic rule as opposed to other African countries under black rule? No need to answer that question. We all know what the answer is.

1. Thats like the 12th time you have moved the goal post. i notice these things. What does majority or minority have to do with it? If the culture is the same as the Islamic religion it would be practised everywhere. You cant have it both ways. I wont allow it.

2. Yes you did concede Egypt if by that you mean you were wrong about it being just one of many advanced civilizations Africa gave birth to and adavnced by Black Africans. However, you seem determined to avoid explaining the occurance of the University of Sankore that is all out of whack in regards to traditional occurances when an invading force influences another civilization to advancement. The conquered people do not build more prestigious institutions of higher learning than the conquerors. Typically.

3. I noticed you have invoked play #12 from the white denial rule book. "When all else fails claim you are a expert in the subject discussed backed by various degrees." I too would love more than anything to be an archeologist on the continent of Africa. Satellites are doing amazing jobs finding ancient roads and centers of trade long forgotten and buried under the sand in the Sahara. Your supposition with writing scripts again fails against common sense and fact. You also seem to lack the intelligence to appreciate the use of mud in the construction of homes in such climates found in Africa. Now being a historian why would you not know these climates are extremely harsh on anything being left behind.

4. Yes give those Black Africans credit for learning a new language and writing script becoming bilingual. Pure genius wasn't it? Kind of hard to practice Islam without knowing the language at that time. Usually when you convert to another religion its because you see something you like. Has nothing to do with turning on the switch and now suddenly I can count to 10. Seeing that the original Arabs were Black I don't understand why that confuses you. If Islam never entered North Africa it would probably be Christian instead of Islamic. I think you meant West Africa? As in Mali? Where the university of Sankore is located? Still trying to take Black Africa and move it north I see. I'm pretty sure it would have been there under another religion. Do you have evidence to the contrary or just more correlation?

1. You made an example of Muslims in the United States. I countered by asking that you compare apples to apples. No goalpost moved there until you posted this response.

2. LOL, Timbuktu University established by Africans 12th Century vs. Al-Azhar University established 10th Century. They didn't even do a good job mimicking Arab culture. The only reason the place is still in existence is because no one cared to conquer a barrenly poor region.

3. The Arab/Islamic influence is accurate. I agree with nearly everything else.

4. Once again, no one was attempting to mimic black African culture. Black Africans who weren't forced by the sword to convert and practice Islam were adopting a winning model. Nothing wrong with that. They had to if they wanted to be relevant, because, they weren't. You can call them advanced if you like, pointing to how they were able to copy someone else, however, that just shows that they copied a working model without a relevant model of their own. If it weren't for a desert and malaria the Arabs would have conquered West-Africa as well. That came easily enough when the West conquered ALL of Africa. At no time in African history since Egypt had black Africa been a major player on the world stage. End of story.

1. Thats #13 Another move of the goal posts. You said the Islamic religion and culture was the same. You were obviously wrong. People all over the world practice Islam and don't dress or adhere to the customs in the Middle East. Not going to let you go on it so you may as well admit you were either lying or ignorant of that fact.

2. I see you are descending on schedule now and changing up your theme. Now which point where you trying to get across? The one where Timbuktu was conquered and only started counting to 10 afterwards or the one where no one wanted to conquer it? You need to make up your mind so I don't catch you retreating from your position. #14 LOLing doesn't change the fact that you posted a picture of a part of the unused University of Sankore and a picture of maintained Al-Azhar University which coincidently learned from...you guessed it Egypt. Nice try but total fail.

3. Your are correct there was some Black Arab influence

4. #15 you move around and change the subject like you are ADHD.

At no time in African history since Egypt had black Africa been a major player on the world stage. End of story.

Where did I claim otherwise? You however cannot prove that as you have no clue what occurred before recorded history. Since Black Africans populated this planet thousands of years before white people even appeared much less crawled out of caves. You have no idea what was going on.

i could have sworn that I merely said all knowledge was based on what Egypt and what Timbuktu meant to the world. There is this term called progression you should be familiar with if you are really a historian. It goes something like this. All knowledge is based on what came before it. There were the civilizations in the Sahara which probably learned from South Africa . These civilizations gave birth to Sumer and Kush and a little later Kemet. Kemet was the base of knowledge where Greeks came to study at the feet of Black geniuses.

Greeks actually lost their history which the Black Arabs revived. To the point of my OP I also said Black Moors had helped Europeans out of the Dark Ages and to not be afraid of taking baths. Whats really funny is your championing of Arabs when they rode rough shod over Europe as well.

 

[Publius1787]

1. Thats like the 12th time you have moved the goal post. i notice these things. What does majority or minority have to do with it? If the culture is the same as the Islamic religion it would be practised everywhere. You cant have it both ways. I wont allow it.

2. Yes you did concede Egypt if by that you mean you were wrong about it being just one of many advanced civilizations Africa gave birth to and adavnced by Black Africans. However, you seem determined to avoid explaining the occurance of the University of Sankore that is all out of whack in regards to traditional occurances when an invading force influences another civilization to advancement. The conquered people do not build more prestigious institutions of higher learning than the conquerors. Typically.

3. I noticed you have invoked play #12 from the white denial rule book. "When all else fails claim you are a expert in the subject discussed backed by various degrees." I too would love more than anything to be an archeologist on the continent of Africa. Satellites are doing amazing jobs finding ancient roads and centers of trade long forgotten and buried under the sand in the Sahara. Your supposition with writing scripts again fails against common sense and fact. You also seem to lack the intelligence to appreciate the use of mud in the construction of homes in such climates found in Africa. Now being a historian why would you not know these climates are extremely harsh on anything being left behind.

4. Yes give those Black Africans credit for learning a new language and writing script becoming bilingual. Pure genius wasn't it? Kind of hard to practice Islam without knowing the language at that time. Usually when you convert to another religion its because you see something you like. Has nothing to do with turning on the switch and now suddenly I can count to 10. Seeing that the original Arabs were Black I don't understand why that confuses you. If Islam never entered North Africa it would probably be Christian instead of Islamic. I think you meant West Africa? As in Mali? Where the university of Sankore is located? Still trying to take Black Africa and move it north I see. I'm pretty sure it would have been there under another religion. Do you have evidence to the contrary or just more correlation?

1. You made an example of Muslims in the United States. I countered by asking that you compare apples to apples. No goalpost moved there until you posted this response.

2. LOL, Timbuktu University established by Africans 12th Century vs. Al-Azhar University established 10th Century. They didn't even do a good job mimicking Arab culture. The only reason the place is still in existence is because no one cared to conquer a barrenly poor region.

3. The Arab/Islamic influence is accurate. I agree with nearly everything else.

4. Once again, no one was attempting to mimic black African culture. Black Africans who weren't forced by the sword to convert and practice Islam were adopting a winning model. Nothing wrong with that. They had to if they wanted to be relevant, because, they weren't. You can call them advanced if you like, pointing to how they were able to copy someone else, however, that just shows that they copied a working model without a relevant model of their own. If it weren't for a desert and malaria the Arabs would have conquered West-Africa as well. That came easily enough when the West conquered ALL of Africa. At no time in African history since Egypt had black Africa been a major player on the world stage. End of story.

1. Thats #13 Another move of the goal posts. You said the Islamic religion and culture was the same. You were obviously wrong. People all over the world practice Islam and don't dress or adhere to the customs in the Middle East. Not going to let you go on it so you may as well admit you were either lying or ignorant of that fact.

2. I see you are descending on schedule now and changing up your theme. Now which point where you trying to get across? The one where Timbuktu was conquered and only started counting to 10 afterwards or the one where no one wanted to conquer it? You need to make up your mind so I don't catch you retreating from your position. #14 LOLing doesn't change the fact that you posted a picture of a part of the unused University of Sankore and a picture of maintained Al-Azhar University which coincidently learned from...you guessed it Egypt. Nice try but total fail.

3. Your are correct there was some Black Arab influence

4. #15 you move around and change the subject like you are ADHD.

At no time in African history since Egypt had black Africa been a major player on the world stage. End of story.

Where did I claim otherwise? You however cannot prove that as you have no clue what occurred before recorded history. Since Black Africans populated this planet thousands of years before white people even appeared much less crawled out of caves. You have no idea what was going on.

i could have sworn that I merely said all knowledge was based on what Egypt and what Timbuktu meant to the world. There is this term called progression you should be familiar with if you are really a historian. It goes something like this. All knowledge is based on what came before it. There were the civilizations in the Sahara which probably learned from South Africa . These civilizations gave birth to Sumer and Kush and a little later Kemet. Kemet was the base of knowledge where Greeks came to study at the feet of Black geniuses.

Greeks actually lost their history which the Black Arabs revived. To the point of my OP I also said Black Moors had helped Europeans out of the Dark Ages and to not be afraid of taking baths. Whats really funny is your championing of Arabs when they rode rough shod over Europe as well.

1. Religions are a offset of culture Islamic culture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2. The University in Egypt was built by Arabs who invaded and conquered Egypt. You deny this? Ok OK, They probably used black slave labor, but that's all I'm going to give you.

3. Black culture was largely destroyed by the predominant Arab culture. Not completely, but largely.

4. I wrote "At no time in African history since Egypt had black Africa been a major player on the world stage. End of story." This is important. Why? Because no culture was mimicking African black culture. Why? because as compared to the Arabs they accomplished next to nothing.

Why should I not recognize history? Yes the Arabs invaded Spain and part of France. That is well documented. Your comment presupposes that I think as you do. I do not. I do not ascribe to myself the achievements of Europe. You, on the other hand, take history personally as if you need to confirm that black Africans were actually more advanced than they are given credit for so as to give you a reason to cast away your lack of self esteem. It goes very deep indeed and this is certainly a problem in the black community. Once you figure out that you are an individual most of that will go away. However, so as long as you continue to tie yourself to, or, defend to those who were brushed into the trash heap of history as a great culture who made great contributions (They did not) then I am afraid that there is little we can do for your self-esteem. Indeed, North African Advancement came only after contact with the Arabs largely through invasion and conquest. And now you want to credit black Africans for copying and being forced into a successful model? Give me a break.

If they were contributors to world advancement they would still be a power today. In fact, they have never been a great contributor toward world history and human advancement. This is why we cant find any black African philosophers, mathematicians, men of science, &c. until WELL after the Arab conquests. Indeed, it does help to be able to write first.

Once again. This is how Arabs viewed Africa

 

[Asclepias]

1. You made an example of Muslims in the United States. I countered by asking that you compare apples to apples. No goalpost moved there until you posted this response.

2. LOL, Timbuktu University established by Africans 12th Century vs. Al-Azhar University established 10th Century. They didn't even do a good job mimicking Arab culture. The only reason the place is still in existence is because no one cared to conquer a barrenly poor region.

3. The Arab/Islamic influence is accurate. I agree with nearly everything else.

4. Once again, no one was attempting to mimic black African culture. Black Africans who weren't forced by the sword to convert and practice Islam were adopting a winning model. Nothing wrong with that. They had to if they wanted to be relevant, because, they weren't. You can call them advanced if you like, pointing to how they were able to copy someone else, however, that just shows that they copied a working model without a relevant model of their own. If it weren't for a desert and malaria the Arabs would have conquered West-Africa as well. That came easily enough when the West conquered ALL of Africa. At no time in African history since Egypt had black Africa been a major player on the world stage. End of story.

1. Thats #13 Another move of the goal posts. You said the Islamic religion and culture was the same. You were obviously wrong. People all over the world practice Islam and don't dress or adhere to the customs in the Middle East. Not going to let you go on it so you may as well admit you were either lying or ignorant of that fact.

2. I see you are descending on schedule now and changing up your theme. Now which point where you trying to get across? The one where Timbuktu was conquered and only started counting to 10 afterwards or the one where no one wanted to conquer it? You need to make up your mind so I don't catch you retreating from your position. #14 LOLing doesn't change the fact that you posted a picture of a part of the unused University of Sankore and a picture of maintained Al-Azhar University which coincidently learned from...you guessed it Egypt. Nice try but total fail.

3. Your are correct there was some Black Arab influence

4. #15 you move around and change the subject like you are ADHD.

At no time in African history since Egypt had black Africa been a major player on the world stage. End of story.

Where did I claim otherwise? You however cannot prove that as you have no clue what occurred before recorded history. Since Black Africans populated this planet thousands of years before white people even appeared much less crawled out of caves. You have no idea what was going on.

i could have sworn that I merely said all knowledge was based on what Egypt and what Timbuktu meant to the world. There is this term called progression you should be familiar with if you are really a historian. It goes something like this. All knowledge is based on what came before it. There were the civilizations in the Sahara which probably learned from South Africa . These civilizations gave birth to Sumer and Kush and a little later Kemet. Kemet was the base of knowledge where Greeks came to study at the feet of Black geniuses.

Greeks actually lost their history which the Black Arabs revived. To the point of my OP I also said Black Moors had helped Europeans out of the Dark Ages and to not be afraid of taking baths. Whats really funny is your championing of Arabs when they rode rough shod over Europe as well.

1. Religions are a offset of culture Islamic culture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2. The University in Egypt was built by Arabs who invaded and conquered Egypt. You deny this? Ok OK, They probably used black slave labor, but that's all I'm going to give you.

3. Black culture was largely destroyed by the predominant Arab culture. Not completely, but largely.

4. I wrote "At no time in African history since Egypt had black Africa been a major player on the world stage. End of story." This is important. Why? Because no culture was mimicking African black culture. Why? because as compared to the Arabs they accomplished next to nothing.

Why should I not recognize history? Yes the Arabs invaded Spain and part of France. That is well documented. Your comment presupposes that I think as you do. I do not. I do not ascribe to myself the achievements of Europe. You, on the other hand, take history personally as if you need to confirm that black Africans were actually more advanced than they are given credit for so as to give you a reason to cast away your lack of self esteem. It goes very deep indeed and this is certainly a problem in the black community. Once you figure out that you are an individual most of that will go away. However, so as long as you continue to tie yourself to, or, defend to those who were brushed into the trash heap of history as a great culture who made great contributions (They did not) then I am afraid that there is little we can do for your self-esteem. Indeed, North African Advancement came only after contact with the Arabs largely through invasion and conquest. And now you want to credit black Africans for copying and being forced into a successful model? Give me a break.

If they were contributors to world advancement they would still be a power today. In fact, they have never been a great contributor toward world history and human advancement. This is why we cant find any black African philosophers, mathematicians, men of science, &c. until WELL after the Arab conquests. Indeed, it does help to be able to write first.

Once again. This is how Arabs viewed Africa

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJhSejBDTPI]Muslim Black slavery - Islam slave history of Black Africa - YouTube[/ame]

1. #16 OK so now you have jumped again from your original point that religion and culture are the same to now religion is an offshoot of culture. SMH That in itself means they are different terms. I will not even allow this. Let me tell you why this is false not matter what inks you show me. If that was true then every culture would have its own relgion right? India for example has Hinduism, Buddhism, and Islam. Same culture though. You need to drop this point because it is functioning as a weight around your neck.

2. Uh...yes I do dispute that Arabs built the learning centers in Egypt. Arabs did not invade until after Rome conquered Kemet and looted and burned the libraries. Next you will be telling me Arabs or aliens built the pyramids!


3. Black culture was not destroyed by Arabs. Thats why they have a distinct and different culture to this day. Where did you hear this myth?

4. Please stay still. Below is the first post I noticed from you. So far you have whiffed on proving your point and instead have resorted to puerile posts basically amounting to "well what about this" to the point you have confused yourself as to your original post. Hey bud you gotta give me some kind of warning if you are going to continue to move the goal posts. We need to resolve this first post before playing the "what about this" game. So actually there appears to be no end to your story. As far as we know Black Africans established the foundation of knowledge all subsequent cultures learned from. That is the end of the story. Sorry but those are the facts until you can prove the existence of another non Black culture that existed before Sumer, Kush, and Kemet. Black Arabs developed Islam not white ones. That came later after mixing. You keep ignoring that fact. Why?

I have heard several times people claim the Moors were not Black. I understand that Muslim Arabs were also part of the Moors but the claim that there were not any Black Africans in positions of power and influence is laughable considering the evidence.

Moors were black. The problem is that Afrocentric types like to ascribe the accomplishments of North Africa to blacks as to make themselves feel better about the lack of African accomplishment anywhere else. In truth,the Arabs invaded North Africa , kicked their tails in the Arab Conquest of the Maghreb, and told them to "convert or die." Yes they were blacks. However, they were cultural Muslims/Arabs. They wrote in Arabic, they were educated at madrassas, they prayed toward Mecca, and they were stripped of their relatively worthless cultural identity very long ago. As compared to the blacks in North Africa, the Muslims were relatively liberal for their day. They were African in genetics and Arab in everything else. Getting their tails kicked in the Arab Conquest of the Maghreb was indeed the best thing to have ever happened to them.

You only recognize a European slant on history thats why. You have the same mindset that supports only white approved versions of history are correct when we know as historians that is when most lies are written by the victor. Europeans have been in power since about the 1400's. Thats a very small time in human history. i dont believe too much of what white history says because I have seen the lies being debunked with DNA and newer dating methods. I have witnessed the omissions in history. In short white history is less than credible to me. You cant tell if they are lying or not. So you can continue to deny to your hearts content. Those that steal history have something to hide. I just hope everything was not destroyed by those jealous and amazed at what Black Africans accomplished.

 

[Publius1787]

1. Thats #13 Another move of the goal posts. You said the Islamic religion and culture was the same. You were obviously wrong. People all over the world practice Islam and don't dress or adhere to the customs in the Middle East. Not going to let you go on it so you may as well admit you were either lying or ignorant of that fact.

2. I see you are descending on schedule now and changing up your theme. Now which point where you trying to get across? The one where Timbuktu was conquered and only started counting to 10 afterwards or the one where no one wanted to conquer it? You need to make up your mind so I don't catch you retreating from your position. #14 LOLing doesn't change the fact that you posted a picture of a part of the unused University of Sankore and a picture of maintained Al-Azhar University which coincidently learned from...you guessed it Egypt. Nice try but total fail.

3. Your are correct there was some Black Arab influence

4. #15 you move around and change the subject like you are ADHD.



Where did I claim otherwise? You however cannot prove that as you have no clue what occurred before recorded history. Since Black Africans populated this planet thousands of years before white people even appeared much less crawled out of caves. You have no idea what was going on.

i could have sworn that I merely said all knowledge was based on what Egypt and what Timbuktu meant to the world. There is this term called progression you should be familiar with if you are really a historian. It goes something like this. All knowledge is based on what came before it. There were the civilizations in the Sahara which probably learned from South Africa . These civilizations gave birth to Sumer and Kush and a little later Kemet. Kemet was the base of knowledge where Greeks came to study at the feet of Black geniuses.

Greeks actually lost their history which the Black Arabs revived. To the point of my OP I also said Black Moors had helped Europeans out of the Dark Ages and to not be afraid of taking baths. Whats really funny is your championing of Arabs when they rode rough shod over Europe as well.

1. Religions are a offset of culture Islamic culture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2. The University in Egypt was built by Arabs who invaded and conquered Egypt. You deny this? Ok OK, They probably used black slave labor, but that's all I'm going to give you.

3. Black culture was largely destroyed by the predominant Arab culture. Not completely, but largely.

4. I wrote "At no time in African history since Egypt had black Africa been a major player on the world stage. End of story." This is important. Why? Because no culture was mimicking African black culture. Why? because as compared to the Arabs they accomplished next to nothing.

Why should I not recognize history? Yes the Arabs invaded Spain and part of France. That is well documented. Your comment presupposes that I think as you do. I do not. I do not ascribe to myself the achievements of Europe. You, on the other hand, take history personally as if you need to confirm that black Africans were actually more advanced than they are given credit for so as to give you a reason to cast away your lack of self esteem. It goes very deep indeed and this is certainly a problem in the black community. Once you figure out that you are an individual most of that will go away. However, so as long as you continue to tie yourself to, or, defend to those who were brushed into the trash heap of history as a great culture who made great contributions (They did not) then I am afraid that there is little we can do for your self-esteem. Indeed, North African Advancement came only after contact with the Arabs largely through invasion and conquest. And now you want to credit black Africans for copying and being forced into a successful model? Give me a break.

If they were contributors to world advancement they would still be a power today. In fact, they have never been a great contributor toward world history and human advancement. This is why we cant find any black African philosophers, mathematicians, men of science, &c. until WELL after the Arab conquests. Indeed, it does help to be able to write first.

Once again. This is how Arabs viewed Africa

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJhSejBDTPI]Muslim Black slavery - Islam slave history of Black Africa - YouTube[/ame]

1. #16 OK so now you have jumped again from your original point that religion and culture are the same to now religion is an offshoot of culture. SMH That in itself means they are different terms. I will not even allow this. Let me tell you why this is false not matter what inks you show me. If that was true then every culture would have its own relgion right? India for example has Hinduism, Buddhism, and Islam. Same culture though. You need to drop this point because it is functioning as a weight around your neck.

2. Uh...yes I do dispute that Arabs built the learning centers in Egypt. Arabs did not invade until after Rome conquered Kemet and looted and burned the libraries. Next you will be telling me Arabs or aliens built the pyramids!


3. Black culture was not destroyed by Arabs. Thats why they have a distinct and different culture to this day. Where did you hear this myth?

4. Please stay still. Below is the first post I noticed from you. So far you have whiffed on proving your point and instead have resorted to puerile posts basically amounting to "well what about this" to the point you have confused yourself as to your original post. Hey bud you gotta give me some kind of warning if you are going to continue to move the goal posts. We need to resolve this first post before playing the "what about this" game. So actually there appears to be no end to your story. As far as we know Black Africans established the foundation of knowledge all subsequent cultures learned from. That is the end of the story. Sorry but those are the facts until you can prove the existence of another non Black culture that existed before Sumer, Kush, and Kemet. Black Arabs developed Islam not white ones. That came later after mixing. You keep ignoring that fact. Why?

I have heard several times people claim the Moors were not Black. I understand that Muslim Arabs were also part of the Moors but the claim that there were not any Black Africans in positions of power and influence is laughable considering the evidence.

Moors were black. The problem is that Afrocentric types like to ascribe the accomplishments of North Africa to blacks as to make themselves feel better about the lack of African accomplishment anywhere else. In truth,the Arabs invaded North Africa , kicked their tails in the Arab Conquest of the Maghreb, and told them to "convert or die." Yes they were blacks. However, they were cultural Muslims/Arabs. They wrote in Arabic, they were educated at madrassas, they prayed toward Mecca, and they were stripped of their relatively worthless cultural identity very long ago. As compared to the blacks in North Africa, the Muslims were relatively liberal for their day. They were African in genetics and Arab in everything else. Getting their tails kicked in the Arab Conquest of the Maghreb was indeed the best thing to have ever happened to them.

You only recognize a European slant on history thats why. You have the same mindset that supports only white approved versions of history are correct when we know as historians that is when most lies are written by the victor. Europeans have been in power since about the 1400's. Thats a very small time in human history. i dont believe too much of what white history says because I have seen the lies being debunked with DNA and newer dating methods. I have witnessed the omissions in history. In short white history is less than credible to me. You cant tell if they are lying or not. So you can continue to deny to your hearts content. Those that steal history have something to hide. I just hope everything was not destroyed by those jealous and amazed at what Black Africans accomplished.

Everything posted above has already been addressed.

 

[Meathead]

Afrocentrics are arguably the stupidest people in the world.

 

[Publius1787]

Afrocentrics are arguably the stupidest people in the world.

But think about all they have contributed to the world. ... .... ... .... ... You should be done thinking about it by the end of this sentence.

 

[Asclepias]

1. Religions are a offset of culture Islamic culture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2. The University in Egypt was built by Arabs who invaded and conquered Egypt. You deny this? Ok OK, They probably used black slave labor, but that's all I'm going to give you.

3. Black culture was largely destroyed by the predominant Arab culture. Not completely, but largely.

4. I wrote "At no time in African history since Egypt had black Africa been a major player on the world stage. End of story." This is important. Why? Because no culture was mimicking African black culture. Why? because as compared to the Arabs they accomplished next to nothing.

Why should I not recognize history? Yes the Arabs invaded Spain and part of France. That is well documented. Your comment presupposes that I think as you do. I do not. I do not ascribe to myself the achievements of Europe. You, on the other hand, take history personally as if you need to confirm that black Africans were actually more advanced than they are given credit for so as to give you a reason to cast away your lack of self esteem. It goes very deep indeed and this is certainly a problem in the black community. Once you figure out that you are an individual most of that will go away. However, so as long as you continue to tie yourself to, or, defend to those who were brushed into the trash heap of history as a great culture who made great contributions (They did not) then I am afraid that there is little we can do for your self-esteem. Indeed, North African Advancement came only after contact with the Arabs largely through invasion and conquest. And now you want to credit black Africans for copying and being forced into a successful model? Give me a break.

If they were contributors to world advancement they would still be a power today. In fact, they have never been a great contributor toward world history and human advancement. This is why we cant find any black African philosophers, mathematicians, men of science, &c. until WELL after the Arab conquests. Indeed, it does help to be able to write first.

Once again. This is how Arabs viewed Africa

Muslim Black slavery - Islam slave history of Black Africa - YouTube

1. #16 OK so now you have jumped again from your original point that religion and culture are the same to now religion is an offshoot of culture. SMH That in itself means they are different terms. I will not even allow this. Let me tell you why this is false not matter what inks you show me. If that was true then every culture would have its own relgion right? India for example has Hinduism, Buddhism, and Islam. Same culture though. You need to drop this point because it is functioning as a weight around your neck.

2. Uh...yes I do dispute that Arabs built the learning centers in Egypt. Arabs did not invade until after Rome conquered Kemet and looted and burned the libraries. Next you will be telling me Arabs or aliens built the pyramids!


3. Black culture was not destroyed by Arabs. Thats why they have a distinct and different culture to this day. Where did you hear this myth?

4. Please stay still. Below is the first post I noticed from you. So far you have whiffed on proving your point and instead have resorted to puerile posts basically amounting to "well what about this" to the point you have confused yourself as to your original post. Hey bud you gotta give me some kind of warning if you are going to continue to move the goal posts. We need to resolve this first post before playing the "what about this" game. So actually there appears to be no end to your story. As far as we know Black Africans established the foundation of knowledge all subsequent cultures learned from. That is the end of the story. Sorry but those are the facts until you can prove the existence of another non Black culture that existed before Sumer, Kush, and Kemet. Black Arabs developed Islam not white ones. That came later after mixing. You keep ignoring that fact. Why?

Moors were black. The problem is that Afrocentric types like to ascribe the accomplishments of North Africa to blacks as to make themselves feel better about the lack of African accomplishment anywhere else. In truth,the Arabs invaded North Africa , kicked their tails in the Arab Conquest of the Maghreb, and told them to "convert or die." Yes they were blacks. However, they were cultural Muslims/Arabs. They wrote in Arabic, they were educated at madrassas, they prayed toward Mecca, and they were stripped of their relatively worthless cultural identity very long ago. As compared to the blacks in North Africa, the Muslims were relatively liberal for their day. They were African in genetics and Arab in everything else. Getting their tails kicked in the Arab Conquest of the Maghreb was indeed the best thing to have ever happened to them.

You only recognize a European slant on history thats why. You have the same mindset that supports only white approved versions of history are correct when we know as historians that is when most lies are written by the victor. Europeans have been in power since about the 1400's. Thats a very small time in human history. i dont believe too much of what white history says because I have seen the lies being debunked with DNA and newer dating methods. I have witnessed the omissions in history. In short white history is less than credible to me. You cant tell if they are lying or not. So you can continue to deny to your hearts content. Those that steal history have something to hide. I just hope everything was not destroyed by those jealous and amazed at what Black Africans accomplished.

Everything posted above has already been addressed.

But it hasn't. All you have done is the "what about this game" and made suppositions without proof. Where is your proof African civilizations did not contribute to or influence the world? Only someone ignorant would say that. You claim to be a history major. Did you flunk out, just start school, or is it simply you were lying?

 

[Meathead]

Afrocentrics are arguably the stupidest people in the world.

But think about all they have contributed to the world. ... .... ... .... ... You should be done thinking about it by the end of this sentence.

Yep, all I came up with is the watermelon, a contribution perhaps, but hardly an achievement.

 

[longknife]

My first question is - what is gained by this thread?

What does the OP want to gain or push by asking the question?

The reality is - what difference does this make?

Spain was a nation split by factions with the majority of its population locked in serfdom. Education was only available to the rich and powerful.

The Moors easily defeated the rules of the area and imposed their beliefs and form of government on the population. They built some amazing structures but were just as tyrannical as those they defeated.

Again, so what? This happened a long time ago and what does it have to do with modern politics, philosophy, or industry?

 

[Asclepias]

My first question is - what is gained by this thread?

What does the OP want to gain or push by asking the question?

The reality is - what difference does this make?

Spain was a nation split by factions with the majority of its population locked in serfdom. Education was only available to the rich and powerful.

The Moors easily defeated the rules of the area and imposed their beliefs and form of government on the population. They built some amazing structures but were just as tyrannical as those they defeated.

Again, so what? This happened a long time ago and what does it have to do with modern politics, philosophy, or industry?

I was pretty clear in the OP I wanted to see more examples of Black Moors in Europe. Your reality may be that it doesn't make a difference to you but the subject makes a difference to me because I was taught in school nothing about Black Moors. Why does that bother you?

 

[longknife]

I made it very clear why this thread bothers me in my post. Sorry that was so difficult to understand.