How Can There Be Multiple Gods and Multiple Truths?

[sealybobo]

Moses. One of the ridiculous characters I think of when I think what a farce the Bible really is. Lol. He was just a crazy man. Nothing more.

Just wondering...What do you know about him?

What's to know? There isn't even any solid evidence the man ever even existed for goodness sakes! That is Old Testament!!! Yikes!

We know for a fact he existed...sometime between 9000 and 15000 years ago give or take.

How do we know that?

That's a joke. If we don't even know exactly when he was born, that's a legend not a fact

 

[Boss]

It is a fluke that the earth just happens to be supportive of biologic

It's not just the thousands of things regarding Earth, it's the universe and the set of about 40 cosmological constants which had to be precise to amazing caliber in order for the hydrogen and helium to fuse and create carbon and stuff, for planets to exist, for anything material to exist.

You are now talking about a "fluke" of the following magnitude: If you went to the casinos and played roulette on a wheel with 10^80 numbers... that's 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 numbers on the wheel... little ball goes spinning around and you land on the one number that pays the jackpot.... and you do this 40-50 times in a row. Never missing the jackpot... and you have the basic "fluke" you're talking about. Realistic?

More realistic than an entity, yes. Most definitely. It just so happens that our earth provided a great environment for the development and branching out of different species, us being just one of many.

Get your mind off of "entities" for a sec... okay? Because when humans think about "entities" they tend to think in terms they comprehend... like creatures... like people... like imaginary or invisible deities... and that's probably not a good description of what created us. Instead, think about an energy form... like electricity or magnetic fields... wave function... frequency modulation... dark energy and dark matter... Elements of our universe we can't always observe but they are there.

This "branching out" is not happening now... obviously. And everything we look at with regard to how life functions work, says that it can't happen because DNA molecules which comprise every living thing, are tied to their amino acids and enzymes. Now. things can change within their genus family... that happens often but it's because the DNA enables remarkable adaptation of life to diversity in environment. The problem comes when you try to make that leap from one genus to another. There is just no biological mechanism that makes that possible... or we've not discovered it or observed any evidence to suggest it.

Even more interesting is what we see when we look at things on the subatomic level. It's really bizarre because our knowledge of physics appear to completely break down. Things are happening inside every atom that simply aren't supposed to happen. Atoms make up every material thing in the universe.

It takes a long time for creatures to evolve, and they usually evolve to adapt to their environments. You would never "notice" it happening. Lol.

Breaking News, Analysis, Politics, Blogs, News Photos, Video, Tech Reviews - TIME.com

You're right, it does take a long time for things to evolve... some don't make it and become extinct. In fact, 95% of them haven't made it and are no longer with us. But every bit of evidence we have for any type of evolving is within a genus taxa. Do you understand what I am talking about? Fish don't grow arms and become reptiles. Plants don't develop gills and become fish. Rodents don't become mammals... those are different genus taxa. It doesn't matter if you have millions or billions of years, there is no evidence of it ever happening.

The ONLY reason it is a viable theory is because it is the only rational explanation besides a Creator. But that isn't Science.

 

[Indeependent]

I'm sure that there are some stories that are actually "based" on facts. However, they are a highly embellished with myths to explain what people could not explain back in the old days.

It's funny how I read Torah Commentaries from 1,000 years ago that discuss the Big Bang Theory, Evolution and Comets.
There's nothing new under the sun.

Why did we have to wait for science to tell us about all these things then?

Instead of Darwin's theory who should we give credit to? Is it moses' theory of evolution?

Oh boy! Spirituality vs Technology...Oh boy!
That would be SOME posting.
I can do it, but not tonight.

I can leave a bad taste in your mouth...
Prophecy vs Magic
Science vs Dedication to God...Who needs God when we have technology?

Modern and Contemporary Theories...are they REALLY so original...No.

This posting is just me bullet pointing at the moment.

 

[Indeependent]

What's that God? Okay, I'll tell them. God says send money.

Then you're lying.

 

[sealybobo]

Who is Moshe and how do you know this Moshe wasn't just a nut?

Moses; He attributed everything to God and never asked anybody for anything.

Except believe that he talked to God. Same thing Joseph Smith and Mohammad asked people to do. Or David koresh

Actually, God did most of the "talking".
I wish I knew the nature of the communication.

So . . . you say you don't believe in man made religion, but you are basing your belief off of a book written by ignorant men thousands of years ago? Hmm. Makes sense.

Why do you believe anyone who lived 3,000 years ago had a low IQ or was unintelligent?
Were Aristotle or Alexander, The Great uneducated?

In science yes.

People in 1880 were ignorant as hell let alone 3000 years ago.

Before religions people followed astrology.

Then again some people follow that stuff today. So in some ways we probably aren't much different. Probably lots of atheists 3000 years ago

 

[ChrisL]

We are just part of the circle of life here on earth. We humans are just different and more evolved than other species. Some monkeys are close seconds though. There are monkeys who can use tools, etc. Elephants are known to mourn their dead too.

5. What do humans have in common with single-celled organisms?

Evolution describes the change over time of all living things from a single common ancestor. The "tree of life" illustrates this concept. Every branch represents a species, each connected to other such branches and the rest of tree as a whole. The forks separating one species from another represent the common ancestors shared by these species. In the case of the relatedness of humans and single-celled organisms, a journey along two different paths -- one starting at the tip of the human branch, the other starting at the tip of a single-celled organism's branch -- would ultimately lead to a fork near the base of the tree: the common ancestor shared by these two very different types of organisms. This journey would cross countless other forks and branches along the way and span perhaps more than a billion years of evolution, but it demonstrates that even the most disparate creatures are related to one another -- that all life is interconnected.

Evolution: Frequently Asked Questions

 

[Indeependent]

Moses; He attributed everything to God and never asked anybody for anything.

Except believe that he talked to God. Same thing Joseph Smith and Mohammad asked people to do. Or David koresh

Actually, God did most of the "talking".
I wish I knew the nature of the communication.

So . . . you say you don't believe in man made religion, but you are basing your belief off of a book written by ignorant men thousands of years ago? Hmm. Makes sense.

Why do you believe anyone who lived 3,000 years ago had a low IQ or was unintelligent?
Were Aristotle or Alexander, The Great uneducated?

In science yes.

People in 1880 were ignorant as hell let alone 3000 years ago.

Before religions people followed astrology.

Then again some people follow that stuff today. So in some ways we probably aren't much different. Probably lots of atheists 3000 years ago

Nothing new under the sun, but somehow all those savages survived, even prospered, and here we are ridiculing them.

 

[ChrisL]

What's that God? Okay, I'll tell them. God says send money.

Then you're lying.

Oh, God can communicate with others demanding sacrifices to him, etc., but not with moi?

 

[ChrisL]

What happened in the Cambrian explosion?

Life began more than 3 billion years before the Cambrian, and gradually diversified into a wide variety of single-celled organisms. Toward the end of the Precambrian, about 570 million years ago, a number of multicelled forms began to appear in the fossil record, including invertebrates resembling sponges and jellyfish, and some as-yet-unknown burrowing forms of life. As the Cambrian began, most of the basic body plans of invertebrates emerged from these Precambrian forms. They emerged relatively rapidly, in the geological sense -- over 10 million to 25 million years. These Cambrian forms were not identical to modern invertebrates, but were their early ancestors. Major groups of living organisms, such as fish, amphibians, reptiles, birds, and mammals, did not appear until millions of years after the end of the Cambrian Period.

 

[Indeependent]

We are just part of the circle of life here on earth. We humans are just different and more evolved than other species. Some monkeys are close seconds though. There are monkeys who can use tools, etc. Elephants are known to mourn their dead too.

5. What do humans have in common with single-celled organisms?

Evolution describes the change over time of all living things from a single common ancestor. The "tree of life" illustrates this concept. Every branch represents a species, each connected to other such branches and the rest of tree as a whole. The forks separating one species from another represent the common ancestors shared by these species. In the case of the relatedness of humans and single-celled organisms, a journey along two different paths -- one starting at the tip of the human branch, the other starting at the tip of a single-celled organism's branch -- would ultimately lead to a fork near the base of the tree: the common ancestor shared by these two very different types of organisms. This journey would cross countless other forks and branches along the way and span perhaps more than a billion years of evolution, but it demonstrates that even the most disparate creatures are related to one another -- that all life is interconnected.

Evolution: Frequently Asked Questions

We are talking animals that need guidance to not destroy each other.
My guidance comes from the Torah.

 

[sealybobo]

It is a fluke that the earth just happens to be supportive of biologic

It's not just the thousands of things regarding Earth, it's the universe and the set of about 40 cosmological constants which had to be precise to amazing caliber in order for the hydrogen and helium to fuse and create carbon and stuff, for planets to exist, for anything material to exist.

You are now talking about a "fluke" of the following magnitude: If you went to the casinos and played roulette on a wheel with 10^80 numbers... that's 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 numbers on the wheel... little ball goes spinning around and you land on the one number that pays the jackpot.... and you do this 40-50 times in a row. Never missing the jackpot... and you have the basic "fluke" you're talking about. Realistic?

More realistic than an entity, yes. Most definitely. It just so happens that our earth provided a great environment for the development and branching out of different species, us being just one of many.

Get your mind off of "entities" for a sec... okay? Because when humans think about "entities" they tend to think in terms they comprehend... like creatures... like people... like imaginary or invisible deities... and that's probably not a good description of what created us. Instead, think about an energy form... like electricity or magnetic fields... wave function... frequency modulation... dark energy and dark matter... Elements of our universe we can't always observe but they are there.

This "branching out" is not happening now... obviously. And everything we look at with regard to how life functions work, says that it can't happen because DNA molecules which comprise every living thing, are tied to their amino acids and enzymes. Now. things can change within their genus family... that happens often but it's because the DNA enables remarkable adaptation of life to diversity in environment. The problem comes when you try to make that leap from one genus to another. There is just no biological mechanism that makes that possible... or we've not discovered it or observed any evidence to suggest it.

Even more interesting is what we see when we look at things on the subatomic level. It's really bizarre because our knowledge of physics appear to completely break down. Things are happening inside every atom that simply aren't supposed to happen. Atoms make up every material thing in the universe.

It takes a long time for creatures to evolve, and they usually evolve to adapt to their environments. You would never "notice" it happening. Lol.

Breaking News, Analysis, Politics, Blogs, News Photos, Video, Tech Reviews - TIME.com

You're right, it does take a long time for things to evolve... some don't make it and become extinct. In fact, 95% of them haven't made it and are no longer with us. But every bit of evidence we have for any type of evolving is within a genus taxa. Do you understand what I am talking about? Fish don't grow arms and become reptiles. Plants don't develop gills and become fish. Rodents don't become mammals... those are different genus taxa. It doesn't matter if you have millions or billions of years, there is no evidence of it ever happening.

The ONLY reason it is a viable theory is because it is the only rational explanation besides a Creator. But that isn't Science.

Sure it is. It's the best theory we got at the moment.

Any evidence debunking evolution would be welcome.

 

[ChrisL]

Sorry peeps, but most evidence points to the theory of evolution rather than gods.

 

[Indeependent]

What's that God? Okay, I'll tell them. God says send money.

Then you're lying.

Oh, God can communicate with others demanding sacrifices to him, etc., but not with moi?

It depends on the sacrifices.
The Temple was a gigantic restaurant.
Sort of like McDonalds but you had to say a blessing before and after eating.

 

[sealybobo]

The water on earth is said to be older than sun. There were probably microscopic critters living in the water, similar to the tardigrade that Bo Bo was talking about, and when the sun started burning, those creatures evolved to adapt to their new environment of light and land, etc. New species evolved. There is a type of fish creature that had little extremities which is said to have crawled out of the ocean for food and eventually adapted to life on land is thought to be the beginning of all life on land.

I don't think anything in our solar system was here before the sun. Isn't our sun the center of our solar system?

Our planet, the moon, even us, we are all made of star stuff. We live because a sun gave its life. Maybe that's what they got wrong back then. Maybe God said sun and our ancestors thought he meant son.

Earth’s Water is Older than the Sun | DTM

Oh yea, it could have been ice. Thanks.

 

[Boss]

People in 1880 were ignorant as hell...

And yet that Darwin in 1859 was brilliant!

 

[sealybobo]

The Creator is neither Visible nor Invisible; we have no concept.
Can an arrow know the craftsman who made it?

But then he came and talked to Moses?

God communicated with Moshe when Moshe was 80 years old.
It took Moshe 60 years of meditation to attain such a state of tranquility where God's communication wouldn't cause Moshe to go insane or have his nervous system destroyed.
Notice at Mount Sinai where the Children of Israel cannot handle the communication and tell Moshe to tell God to communicate with them through Moshe and not directly with them.

Who is Moshe and how do you know this Moshe wasn't just a nut?

Moses; He attributed everything to God and never asked anybody for anything.

Lol. Oh, that means a lot. He was just another ignorant human. So you believe that a god spoke to a man through a bush?

It's funny how they quote their holy books and assume it's as meaningful to us as it is to them.

 

[sealybobo]

People in 1880 were ignorant as hell...

And yet that Darwin in 1859 was brilliant!

Way ahead of his time.

And I admitted even today we still have fools who go to astrology readings.

 

[Indeependent]

But then he came and talked to Moses?

God communicated with Moshe when Moshe was 80 years old.
It took Moshe 60 years of meditation to attain such a state of tranquility where God's communication wouldn't cause Moshe to go insane or have his nervous system destroyed.
Notice at Mount Sinai where the Children of Israel cannot handle the communication and tell Moshe to tell God to communicate with them through Moshe and not directly with them.

Who is Moshe and how do you know this Moshe wasn't just a nut?

Moses; He attributed everything to God and never asked anybody for anything.

Lol. Oh, that means a lot. He was just another ignorant human. So you believe that a god spoke to a man through a bush?

It's funny how they quote their holy books and assume it's as meaningful to us as it is to them.

Not at all; I'm just trying to get a handle on your outlook on different subjects.
For example, I don't think everyone 1,000 years ago was stupid.

 

[ChrisL]

What is evolution?

Biological evolution refers to the cumulative changes that occur in a population over time. These changes are produced at the genetic level as organisms' genes mutate and/or recombine in different ways during reproduction and are passed on to future generations. Sometimes, individuals inherit new characteristics that give them a survival and reproductive advantage in their local environments; these characteristics tend to increase in frequency in the population, while those that are disadvantageous decrease in frequency. This process of differential survival and reproduction is known as natural selection. Non-genetic changes that occur during an organism's life span, such as increases in muscle mass due to exercise and diet, cannot be passed on to the next generation and are not examples of evolution.

 

[ChrisL]

Isn't evolution just a theory that remains unproven?

In science, a theory is a rigorously tested statement of general principles that explains observable and recorded aspects of the world. A scientific theory therefore describes a higher level of understanding that ties "facts" together. A scientific theory stands until proven wrong -- it is never proven correct. The Darwinian theory of evolution has withstood the test of time and thousands of scientific experiments; nothing has disproved it since Darwin first proposed it more than 150 years ago. Indeed, many scientific advances, in a range of scientific disciplines including physics, geology, chemistry, and molecular biology, have supported, refined, and expanded evolutionary theory far beyond anything Darwin could have imagined.