How do the non-spiritual explain it?

[sealybobo]

But if it must be god and you think that's the answer why keep looking? Apparently you have the answer. Must be god. Thunder use to be god.

"Must be God" doesn't answer any questions for me. Science is about finding answers to questions, not drawing conclusions. As a believer in God, "must be god" is kinda dumb because it so obviously can apply to everything. Everything must be god if you believe in a God who created everything. So why would I use the understanding that God most certainly did something to short-circuit my quest for the answers of how God did it?

We can explain how thunder happens. Long detailed explanations of how lighting creates sound, etc. This is a scientific explanation for how something happens, what makes it happen. Can you explain for me, WHY this happens? Why does lightning exist? Why does gravity exist? I don't want to know what causes them but why they exist? Bottom line is, science has no explanation... but I do.

Every person who ever lived died asking or wondering that question. We don't like not knowing so we came up with a purpose. You could be right. But I'll take my chances that I don't need to be a christian Muslim Jew jehova Mormon to win its favor. I'll continue to be a good person and realize this is probably all there is. God or an afterlife arent necessary for me. I'm appreciative for the 44 years I got and hope I get 44. I hope you do too. And I hope christians Muslims and Jews make peace in our lifetime but you know that won't happen.

Think about it. You and I want there to be peace more than anything. Supposedly so do most Americans. No hunger or wars or murders. We all say we want it but don't have faith it will ever go away. Yet you have so much faith a god created such an imperfect world? And cares about you but not the bunny rabbits or turtles and birds? How can you not see your wishful thinking?

 

[sealybobo]

The original question is baffling. What created everything we see? There may not be a creator or reason but that seems so hard to believe. But the more I learn the less I believe the god hypothesis. Seems like nothing more than wishful thinking. Sorry theists. I call bullshit on your ancient stories. No offense and any talk of hell for not believing you or your church will only further convince me that religions are just big cults.

 

[sealybobo]

I'm probably a Buddhist. They don't believe in gods do they?The golden rule and live and let live. Secular.

 

[Boss]

Yet you have so much faith a god created such an imperfect world? And cares about you but not the bunny rabbits or turtles and birds? How can you not see your wishful thinking?

But I don't believe in a God who cares about me. Remember, I am not a Christian. From my perspective, God is an energy force. Albeit, a special kind of energy which is not yet detectable by physical science. It doesn't have human attributes, it doesn't need them. The same energy force which created this universe, reality, time, space, light, gravity and life, is constantly flowing within our dimensions and is available for us to utilize as spiritually-connected creatures. If people want to stick their heads in the sand and not acknowledge this force, it's not a problem for me or for it.

 

[Boss]

The original question is baffling. What created everything we see? There may not be a creator or reason but that seems so hard to believe.

It seems incredibly hard to believe. In fact, one has to ask himself, how can you possibly believe all of this is by random chance? It's not baffling when you have connected with spiritual nature and realize it exists. Suddenly it all becomes very clear and understandable.

 

[sealybobo]

The original question is baffling. What created everything we see? There may not be a creator or reason but that seems so hard to believe.

It seems incredibly hard to believe. In fact, one has to ask himself, how can you possibly believe all of this is by random chance? It's not baffling when you have connected with spiritual nature and realize it exists. Suddenly it all becomes very clear and understandable.

Or you could be wrong. You haven't convinced me but atheist scientists have. But don't worry. We aren't evil I promise.

 

[Boss]

The original question is baffling. What created everything we see? There may not be a creator or reason but that seems so hard to believe.

It seems incredibly hard to believe. In fact, one has to ask himself, how can you possibly believe all of this is by random chance? It's not baffling when you have connected with spiritual nature and realize it exists. Suddenly it all becomes very clear and understandable.

Or you could be wrong. You haven't convinced me but atheist scientists have. But don't worry. We aren't evil I promise.

But I'm not wrong, I am certain. You see, it does not matter if you are convinced. That has no bearing on what I am absolutely positive exists. It also doesn't matter if you are evil. I don't get any points for talking you out of being evil or extra credits for you being good. How you behave and what you believe are entirely up to you.

You are funny here sometimes because you type as you think, so you end up revealing your uncertainties; "....that seems so hard to believe." Then, you're right back up on your confidence pony with; "...You haven't convinced me but atheist scientists have."

So we see the portrait of a conflicted Silly Boob. It seems so hard for him to believe this is all without reason, purpose, intention and design... but atheists have convinced him anyway. That's very revealing, Boob!

FAITH is the belief in something not in evidence. SCIENCE does not draw conclusions, it only suggests probabilities. You can use those suggestions to form your own conclusions but science simply can't do that... it only explores possibility and deals with probability. So when you say you are certain of something, that science has concluded something, that atheists have convinced you of something, then what you are really actually saying is, you've abandoned science for faith.

 

[Hollie]

Yet you have so much faith a god created such an imperfect world? And cares about you but not the bunny rabbits or turtles and birds? How can you not see your wishful thinking?

But I don't believe in a God who cares about me. Remember, I am not a Christian. From my perspective, God is an energy force. Albeit, a special kind of energy which is not yet detectable by physical science. It doesn't have human attributes, it doesn't need them. The same energy force which created this universe, reality, time, space, light, gravity and life, is constantly flowing within our dimensions and is available for us to utilize as spiritually-connected creatures. If people want to stick their heads in the sand and not acknowledge this force, it's not a problem for me or for it.

"...God is an energy force. Albeit, a special kind of energy which is not yet detectable by physical science."

How convenient for those making claims to "special kinds" of gawds. This is the kind of argument not detectable during rational discourse because it relies on appeals to "because I say so" not taken seriously by grownups.

 

[Hollie]

The original question is baffling. What created everything we see? There may not be a creator or reason but that seems so hard to believe.

It seems incredibly hard to believe. In fact, one has to ask himself, how can you possibly believe all of this is by random chance? It's not baffling when you have connected with spiritual nature and realize it exists. Suddenly it all becomes very clear and understandable.

Or you could be wrong. You haven't convinced me but atheist scientists have. But don't worry. We aren't evil I promise.

But I'm not wrong, I am certain. You see, it does not matter if you are convinced. That has no bearing on what I am absolutely positive exists. It also doesn't matter if you are evil. I don't get any points for talking you out of being evil or extra credits for you being good. How you behave and what you believe are entirely up to you.

You are funny here sometimes because you type as you think, so you end up revealing your uncertainties; "....that seems so hard to believe." Then, you're right back up on your confidence pony with; "...You haven't convinced me but atheist scientists have."

So we see the portrait of a conflicted Silly Boob. It seems so hard for him to believe this is all without reason, purpose, intention and design... but atheists have convinced him anyway. That's very revealing, Boob!

FAITH is the belief in something not in evidence. SCIENCE does not draw conclusions, it only suggests probabilities. You can use those suggestions to form your own conclusions but science simply can't do that... it only explores possibility and deals with probability. So when you say you are certain of something, that science has concluded something, that atheists have convinced you of something, then what you are really actually saying is, you've abandoned science for faith.

"SCIENCE does not draw conclusions, it only suggests probabilities"

A classic Boss'ism.

Sorry, Bossy. You've been trolling at fundamentalist creation ministries for your science learnin' and that's always a disaster. Science leads to conclusions all the time. To conclude and publish for peer review is a process of the scientific method.

 

[edthecynic]

So you admit "spiritual" is PC for "superstition."

Nope. Never said anything remotely close to this.

BLAAH BLAAH BLAAH....superstition.

 

[edthecynic]

As for your spree of "Fallacy of Whateverums" ...this is just you exhibiting butt hurt because you can't really argue the points intellectually. In situations such as this, where you find yourself completely over your head on an intellectual basis, you morph into a delinquent smart-ass punk and start denigrating and lying.

Oh the IRONY!!!!!

 

[edthecynic]

The original question is baffling. What created everything we see? There may not be a creator or reason but that seems so hard to believe.

It seems incredibly hard to believe. In fact, one has to ask himself, how can you possibly believe all of this is by random chance? It's not baffling when you have connected with spiritual nature and realize it exists. Suddenly it all becomes very clear and understandable.

BLAAH BLAAH BLAAH....superstition.

 

[sealybobo]

The original question is baffling. What created everything we see? There may not be a creator or reason but that seems so hard to believe.

It seems incredibly hard to believe. In fact, one has to ask himself, how can you possibly believe all of this is by random chance? It's not baffling when you have connected with spiritual nature and realize it exists. Suddenly it all becomes very clear and understandable.

Or you could be wrong. You haven't convinced me but atheist scientists have. But don't worry. We aren't evil I promise.

But I'm not wrong, I am certain. You see, it does not matter if you are convinced. That has no bearing on what I am absolutely positive exists. It also doesn't matter if you are evil. I don't get any points for talking you out of being evil or extra credits for you being good. How you behave and what you believe are entirely up to you.

You are funny here sometimes because you type as you think, so you end up revealing your uncertainties; "....that seems so hard to believe." Then, you're right back up on your confidence pony with; "...You haven't convinced me but atheist scientists have."

So we see the portrait of a conflicted Silly Boob. It seems so hard for him to believe this is all without reason, purpose, intention and design... but atheists have convinced him anyway. That's very revealing, Boob!

FAITH is the belief in something not in evidence. SCIENCE does not draw conclusions, it only suggests probabilities. You can use those suggestions to form your own conclusions but science simply can't do that... it only explores possibility and deals with probability. So when you say you are certain of something, that science has concluded something, that atheists have convinced you of something, then what you are really actually saying is, you've abandoned science for faith.

"SCIENCE does not draw conclusions, it only suggests probabilities"

A classic Boss'ism.

Sorry, Bossy. You've been trolling at fundamentalist creation ministries for your science learnin' and that's always a disaster. Science leads to conclusions all the time. To conclude and publish for peer review is a process of the scientific method.

He suggested that looking for god has led to scientific discovery.

 

[sealybobo]

The original question is baffling. What created everything we see? There may not be a creator or reason but that seems so hard to believe.

It seems incredibly hard to believe. In fact, one has to ask himself, how can you possibly believe all of this is by random chance? It's not baffling when you have connected with spiritual nature and realize it exists. Suddenly it all becomes very clear and understandable.

BLAAH BLAAH BLAAH....superstition.

Today the parents of the American Sniper thanked God for the guilty verdict. Apparently god wasn't paying attention on 9 11 or during the OJ or Trevon Martin trials but he decided to get involved in the superbowl academy awards and american sniper trial. But boss says theres no way it could just be in our heads.

Its even in my head. I win a big hand of poker what do I say? Thank god.

 

[sealybobo]

Physical things, of course, are not non-physical.

What a retard!

Yes, for me to have to make this obvious point, someone certainly is a retard.

So you admit "spiritual" is PC for "superstition."

Nope. Never said anything remotely close to this.

As for your spree of "Fallacy of Whateverums" ...this is just you exhibiting butt hurt because you can't really argue the points intellectually. In situations such as this, where you find yourself completely over your head on an intellectual basis, you morph into a delinquent smart-ass punk and start denigrating and lying.

It's really a shame because I believe in people and I know you're better than this. If your mind was not being controlled by your emotions, I am sure you could probably articulate some thought-provoking and stimulating debate.

I'll prove its all in our heads. What do people say when a surgery goes well? Thank god. Or when they win an academy award Oscar emmy or superbowl? Thank god. But trevon martins parents don't get to say that. The academy award losers just thank god they were nominated. People whos kids die in a plane crash. Where was god? I win a big hand of poker I say thank god. Is he involved in my poker hand?

Yet we all give god credit when no credit is due. He does not care if he exists at all.

I like the saying have a purpose for your life. Have a positive impact. Maybe if people worried more about here and now more than after we die we'd do much better.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

For a great many people, there is nothing "spiritual" about Christmas decorations, Easter eggs, St. Patrick's day, etc. These are largely just traditions.

Most non-retards understand that Christmas, Easter and St. Patty's Day are all rituals with a spiritual root. If we need to break out the coloring books to draw you a simple picture of how these holidays are based on spiritual beliefs, we can do that. Most of us are aware of this.

As I stated before, you clearly understand "the spirit of Christmas" ...this is why you decorate with icons associated with Christmas. You long for the spirit of Christmas. It can be a tradition you don't personally associate with spirituality, but that doesn't change what it is or why it exists.

You're trying to make some connection to something you call "spiritual" and you're failing to make that case.

You can assign any and all magical / mystical / supernatural connotations to traditions if you like but you should be aware that you represent yourself as the most dogmatic of religious zealots with insistence that rituals must have a religious connection.

And, in case no one has mentioned the obvious -

One does not have to believe in any of the various gods to be intensely and personally "spiritual".

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Physical things, of course, are not non-physical.

What a retard!

Yes, for me to have to make this obvious point, someone certainly is a retard.

So you admit "spiritual" is PC for "superstition."

Nope. Never said anything remotely close to this.

As for your spree of "Fallacy of Whateverums" ...this is just you exhibiting butt hurt because you can't really argue the points intellectually. In situations such as this, where you find yourself completely over your head on an intellectual basis, you morph into a delinquent smart-ass punk and start denigrating and lying.

It's really a shame because I believe in people and I know you're better than this. If your mind was not being controlled by your emotions, I am sure you could probably articulate some thought-provoking and stimulating debate.

I'll prove its all in our heads. What do people say when a surgery goes well? Thank god. Or when they win an academy award Oscar emmy or superbowl? Thank god. But trevon martins parents don't get to say that. The academy award losers just thank god they were nominated. People whos kids die in a plane crash. Where was god? I win a big hand of poker I say thank god. Is he involved in my poker hand?

Yet we all give god credit when no credit is due. He does not care if he exists at all.

I like the saying have a purpose for your life. Have a positive impact. Maybe if people worried more about here and now more than after we die we'd do much better.

Conversely, when they don't get their "wish", they excuse god by saying "its god's will" or "god moves in mysterious ways".

One of the reasons religion works so well is that one one hand, its one size fits all but OTOH, the believer can pick and choose what to believe in.

 

[sealybobo]

Physical things, of course, are not non-physical.

What a retard!

Yes, for me to have to make this obvious point, someone certainly is a retard.

So you admit "spiritual" is PC for "superstition."

Nope. Never said anything remotely close to this.

As for your spree of "Fallacy of Whateverums" ...this is just you exhibiting butt hurt because you can't really argue the points intellectually. In situations such as this, where you find yourself completely over your head on an intellectual basis, you morph into a delinquent smart-ass punk and start denigrating and lying.

It's really a shame because I believe in people and I know you're better than this. If your mind was not being controlled by your emotions, I am sure you could probably articulate some thought-provoking and stimulating debate.

I'll prove its all in our heads. What do people say when a surgery goes well? Thank god. Or when they win an academy award Oscar emmy or superbowl? Thank god. But trevon martins parents don't get to say that. The academy award losers just thank god they were nominated. People whos kids die in a plane crash. Where was god? I win a big hand of poker I say thank god. Is he involved in my poker hand?

Yet we all give god credit when no credit is due. He does not care if he exists at all.

I like the saying have a purpose for your life. Have a positive impact. Maybe if people worried more about here and now more than after we die we'd do much better.

Conversely, when they don't get their "wish", they excuse god by saying "its god's will" or "god moves in mysterious ways".

One of the reasons religion works so well is that one one hand, its one size fits all but OTOH, the believer can pick and choose what to believe in.

But the question is, how do us non spiritualists explain it. You just disqualified yourself by saying you are spiritual. I guess I am too to a degree but I tend to think we might have come from nothing and the universe is just because it is and it is all that is, was and will ever be. But not just our seeable universe of billions of galaxies. Even that's just pathetically small. We can't comprehend eternity. Yet theists think they will live for eternity. I tell you how I explain that. Easy. It's wishful thinking. Our most primitive ancestors without any evidence at all decided there must be a god. And no proof yet of his existence to this day. Any good scientific mind would have given up looking a long time ago. If you are spiritual it means you believe it matters if you are a good person or not. I agree and/or hope/believe that is true too.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Physical things, of course, are not non-physical.

What a retard!

Yes, for me to have to make this obvious point, someone certainly is a retard.

So you admit "spiritual" is PC for "superstition."

Nope. Never said anything remotely close to this.

As for your spree of "Fallacy of Whateverums" ...this is just you exhibiting butt hurt because you can't really argue the points intellectually. In situations such as this, where you find yourself completely over your head on an intellectual basis, you morph into a delinquent smart-ass punk and start denigrating and lying.

It's really a shame because I believe in people and I know you're better than this. If your mind was not being controlled by your emotions, I am sure you could probably articulate some thought-provoking and stimulating debate.

I'll prove its all in our heads. What do people say when a surgery goes well? Thank god. Or when they win an academy award Oscar emmy or superbowl? Thank god. But trevon martins parents don't get to say that. The academy award losers just thank god they were nominated. People whos kids die in a plane crash. Where was god? I win a big hand of poker I say thank god. Is he involved in my poker hand?

Yet we all give god credit when no credit is due. He does not care if he exists at all.

I like the saying have a purpose for your life. Have a positive impact. Maybe if people worried more about here and now more than after we die we'd do much better.

Conversely, when they don't get their "wish", they excuse god by saying "its god's will" or "god moves in mysterious ways".

One of the reasons religion works so well is that one one hand, its one size fits all but OTOH, the believer can pick and choose what to believe in.

But the question is, how do us non spiritualists explain it. You just disqualified yourself by saying you are spiritual. I guess I am too to a degree but I tend to think we might have come from nothing and the universe is just because it is and it is all that is, was and will ever be. But not just our seeable universe of billions of galaxies. Even that's just pathetically small. We can't comprehend eternity. Yet theists think they will live for eternity. I tell you how I explain that. Easy. It's wishful thinking. Our most primitive ancestors without any evidence at all decided there must be a god. And no proof yet of his existence to this day. Any good scientific mind would have given up looking a long time ago. If you are spiritual it means you believe it matters if you are a good person or not. I agree and/or hope/believe that is true too.

sealybobo

I agree completely with every word you just wrote.

Thanks.

 

[sealybobo]

Setting aside the various criticisms of religious beliefs for a moment, and pretending the whimsical dismissal of God is perfectly 'natural' for man and all... how do the non-spiritualists explain the following....

Astral projection experiences.
Near-death experiences.
Transcendental meditation.
ESP and telepathy.
Ghost stories and paranormal experiences.
Other unexplained supernatural phenomenon.
Spells, curses and black magic.
Edgar Cayce.
Nostradamus.
Prophecy in general.

Is every single bit of it a bunch of hooey caused by our fears and imagination?

To me, it just seems as if there might be something more here. Especially in the case of people like Edgar Cayce. If you've never studied up on him, it's worth a search and read... fascinating man. His uncanny ability to predict the future was beyond anything we've ever known. He gave over 14k readings but that includes a brief period where he didn't do them because he was getting headaches. People were exploiting his power to win horse races and trade stock and he believed this was why he was getting the headaches. After some time, he did more readings but only his trusted wife was allowed to ask him questions.

Can our physical sciences understand this?

Geocentrism, a flat earth, creationism, astrology, alchemy and the occult were all once pervasive beliefs. Furthermore, religions are culturally relative and, for the most part, are inconsistent and mutually exclusive.