How do the non-spiritual explain it?

[Luddly Neddite]

Physical things, of course, are not non-physical.

What a retard!

Yes, for me to have to make this obvious point, someone certainly is a retard.

So you admit "spiritual" is PC for "superstition."

Nope. Never said anything remotely close to this.

As for your spree of "Fallacy of Whateverums" ...this is just you exhibiting butt hurt because you can't really argue the points intellectually. In situations such as this, where you find yourself completely over your head on an intellectual basis, you morph into a delinquent smart-ass punk and start denigrating and lying.

It's really a shame because I believe in people and I know you're better than this. If your mind was not being controlled by your emotions, I am sure you could probably articulate some thought-provoking and stimulating debate.

I'll prove its all in our heads. What do people say when a surgery goes well? Thank god. Or when they win an academy award Oscar emmy or superbowl? Thank god. But trevon martins parents don't get to say that. The academy award losers just thank god they were nominated. People whos kids die in a plane crash. Where was god? I win a big hand of poker I say thank god. Is he involved in my poker hand?

Yet we all give god credit when no credit is due. He does not care if he exists at all.

I like the saying have a purpose for your life. Have a positive impact. Maybe if people worried more about here and now more than after we die we'd do much better.

Conversely, when they don't get their "wish", they excuse god by saying "its god's will" or "god moves in mysterious ways".

One of the reasons religion works so well is that one one hand, its one size fits all but OTOH, the believer can pick and choose what to believe in.

But the question is, how do us non spiritualists explain it. You just disqualified yourself by saying you are spiritual. I guess I am too to a degree but I tend to think we might have come from nothing and the universe is just because it is and it is all that is, was and will ever be. But not just our seeable universe of billions of galaxies. Even that's just pathetically small. We can't comprehend eternity. Yet theists think they will live for eternity. I tell you how I explain that. Easy. It's wishful thinking. Our most primitive ancestors without any evidence at all decided there must be a god. And no proof yet of his existence to this day. Any good scientific mind would have given up looking a long time ago. If you are spiritual it means you believe it matters if you are a good person or not. I agree and/or hope/believe that is true too.

Hmmm ... I'm going amend my previous post to say that I believe our planet, the galaxy, other galaxies and other universes are as they are because, given the givens, there is no other way they can be.

When I lived in Tucson, I would hear people say how amazing it was that, in such an inhospitable climate, giant saguaro cactus would grow for a couple of hundred years and weigh several tons.

The answer to that is they belong there. Given the givens, there is no other place they can live and in fact, saguaros do not occur anyplace else on earth besides the Sonora desert. IOW, thart climate is not inhospitable to all life forms.

Given the givens of our planet, the natural make up of our atmosphere, our degree of gravity, etc, etc, there is no other way we could have evolved.

 

[sealybobo]

You seem to be equating "spiritual" with non-physical.

If spiritual is not physical, what else could you call it?

The issue is the reverse. You seem to be saying that everything non-physical is "spiritual". Is that accurate?

No, that's what YOU are saying...

I am saying that ALL spiritual things are non-physical and cannot be physical. Before your oblivious and obtuse OCD kicks in, that's not to say that some physical things can't also have a spiritual component.

So we have things that are either physical or non-physical, there is no other option. Spiritual things are non-physical things. Physical things, of course, are not non-physical. Some physical things can have a spiritual component but are physical and can't be actual spiritual things. Some non-physical things can be spiritual and all things spiritual are non-physical. We clear?

Alright guys quit arguing and get back on track. You ask how the non spiritual explain it. We're trying to explain it to you. Sometimes we get frustrated because you still don't get it.

Science can’t explain X, therefore god/theism.
God of the gaps [2]. Argument from Ignorance.

Simply because you or the scientific community lack a complete understanding of something does not imply a theistic explanation carries any value. Even if there exists some topic on which science can never speak, any understanding could potentially evade us forever – supernatural or metaphysical speculation would not automatically be correct. Uncertainty is the most legitimate position.

Lightning, earthquakes, volcanos, disease, mental illness, speciation, planetary orbits and numerous other phenomena have been historically labelled ‘supernatural’ only to later be more thoroughly and elegantly explained by science. In fact, every mystery ever demonstrably solved has had a non-supernatural explanation. To suggest that science cannot or will not explain a phenomena, and that only theism can, is hubris of the highest order.

Using ‘god’ to explain something explains nothing. God’s supposed powers and how they work are a mystery. An explanation is intended to clarify and extend knowledge. Attributing a phenomenon to the magical powers of a supernatural being does neither. Worse still, this presumption acts to prevent any deeper investigation, being little more than a form of blissful ignorance.

By using ‘god’ to fill gaps in their knowledge theists inadvertently provide a shrinking role for their god as science advances. They also predicate god’s existence on a lack of knowledge, not on any positive argument or evidence.

See also: The God of the Gaps – Neil deGrasse Tyson (a must watch), Open-Mindedness (a must watch), Skewed views of science, The faith cake (a must watch),Richard Feynman on Doubt and Uncertainty (a must watch), Critical Thinking,Magical Thinking, Self-Deception Open-Mindedness (a must watch).

“I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world.” – Richard Dawkins

 

[sealybobo]

What a retard!

Yes, for me to have to make this obvious point, someone certainly is a retard.

So you admit "spiritual" is PC for "superstition."

Nope. Never said anything remotely close to this.

As for your spree of "Fallacy of Whateverums" ...this is just you exhibiting butt hurt because you can't really argue the points intellectually. In situations such as this, where you find yourself completely over your head on an intellectual basis, you morph into a delinquent smart-ass punk and start denigrating and lying.

It's really a shame because I believe in people and I know you're better than this. If your mind was not being controlled by your emotions, I am sure you could probably articulate some thought-provoking and stimulating debate.

I'll prove its all in our heads. What do people say when a surgery goes well? Thank god. Or when they win an academy award Oscar emmy or superbowl? Thank god. But trevon martins parents don't get to say that. The academy award losers just thank god they were nominated. People whos kids die in a plane crash. Where was god? I win a big hand of poker I say thank god. Is he involved in my poker hand?

Yet we all give god credit when no credit is due. He does not care if he exists at all.

I like the saying have a purpose for your life. Have a positive impact. Maybe if people worried more about here and now more than after we die we'd do much better.

Conversely, when they don't get their "wish", they excuse god by saying "its god's will" or "god moves in mysterious ways".

One of the reasons religion works so well is that one one hand, its one size fits all but OTOH, the believer can pick and choose what to believe in.

But the question is, how do us non spiritualists explain it. You just disqualified yourself by saying you are spiritual. I guess I am too to a degree but I tend to think we might have come from nothing and the universe is just because it is and it is all that is, was and will ever be. But not just our seeable universe of billions of galaxies. Even that's just pathetically small. We can't comprehend eternity. Yet theists think they will live for eternity. I tell you how I explain that. Easy. It's wishful thinking. Our most primitive ancestors without any evidence at all decided there must be a god. And no proof yet of his existence to this day. Any good scientific mind would have given up looking a long time ago. If you are spiritual it means you believe it matters if you are a good person or not. I agree and/or hope/believe that is true too.

Hmmm ... I'm going amend my previous post to say that I believe our planet, the galaxy, other galaxies and other universes are as they are because, given the givens, there is no other way they can be.

When I lived in Tucson, I would hear people say how amazing it was that, in such an inhospitable climate, giant saguaro cactus would grow for a couple of hundred years and weigh several tons.

The answer to that is they belong there. Given the givens, there is no other place they can live and in fact, saguaros do not occur anyplace else on earth besides the Sonora desert. IOW, thart climate is not inhospitable to all life forms.

Given the givens of our planet, the natural make up of our atmosphere, our degree of gravity, etc, etc, there is no other way we could have evolved.

And if the planet heats up or cools off a couple degrees we might not be here anymore but Tardigrades will continue on. How special are we?

Imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, ‘This is an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in, fits me rather neatly, doesn’t it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!’ This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and the puddle gets smaller and smaller, it’s still frantically hanging on to the notion that everything’s going to be all right, because this world was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise.” - Douglas Adams

 

[sealybobo]

Read my lips.... There is no god.

All you have to do is offer up the evidence to prove your claim. If you can't do that, it means you have no basis for this belief and it is merely a matter of your personal faith and opinion. You can make up all the stories you like about spirituality but until you start posting some hard evidence, it's all your opinion. We've not discovered this ancient civilization of goat herders who invented God, that doesn't exist in reality. Every ancient civilization we've unearthed shows signs of spiritual belief, all the way back to the oldest one.

I don't care how angry you are at Christians and Jews, it doesn't turn your biased opinions into facts. You are just as bad (if not worse) than any bible-thumper ever known. You've made this definitive statement about something on the sole basis of your beliefs (or non beliefs). You don't have any evidence to back it up and you just want to cram this down everyone's throat to accept on your commandment.

I don't respect your dogma any more than I respect religious dogma.

And we explained to you how our ancient primitive ancestors came up with this god concept without any hard evidence. We understand why they were frightened and didn't know so they thought there must be a purpose and they must be special. That doesn't mean they were right just because every society came up with some kind of spiritual explanation. Its what humans do. We are not that smart. Not yet anyways. But we are much smarter today than back then. Well, some of us. Anyways, back to explaining it to you:

1. Phenomenon X has a non-physical component.
   Baseless assertion. Unfalsifiable. How can you prove it?
   
   There have been numerous claims of the supernatural, none of which have ever been demonstrated to be true. Furthermore, these claims are often mutually contradictory, and people who believe in one form of supernatural or paranormal activity will usually not believe in others due to cognitive bias and wishful thinking.
   
   Proposing a non-physical explanation for an observed or imagined/fabricated phenomena is not a testable hypothesis and is therefore unworthy of serious consideration. It precludes any deeper insight or understanding and offers no means of distinction from any other possible supernatural claim.
   
   There are many as yet unexplained phenomena and anomalies in nature. The scientific approach to these is to say “I don’t know yet” and keep on looking, not to presume an answer which makes us comfortable.
   
   Note: This claim often represents a deep discomfort with uncertainty or ambiguity, demonstrating a lack of critical thinking or poor understanding of a topic. It usually coincides with credulity, which is the tendency to believe in propositions unsupported by evidence. See also: gullibility.
   
   See also: Critical Thinking (a must watch), Open-Mindedness (a must watch), Nobel Laureate Richard Feynman on Doubt and Uncertainty (a must watch), Delusion,Magical Thinking, Superstition, Self-Deception.
   
   “What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.” – Christopher Hitchens
   
   “I don’t feel frightened by not knowing things, I think it’s much more interesting that way … I have approximate answers, and possible beliefs, and different degrees of certainty about different things, but I’m not absolutely sure of anything. I might think about it a little, but if I can’t figure it out, then I go to something else. It doesn’t frighten me.” – Richard Feynman

 

[HUGGY]

This is just so much CRAP! WE don't HAVE to explain ANYTHING!

EVERY superstitious theory has been debunked. Nothing unexplained cannot be explained. It just might take more time out of your life than you care to expend to unravel it.

How about we just look forward with as much intelligence as we can muster and do what we can to survive individually and as a species?

 

[Boss]

Yet you have so much faith a god created such an imperfect world? And cares about you but not the bunny rabbits or turtles and birds? How can you not see your wishful thinking?

But I don't believe in a God who cares about me. Remember, I am not a Christian. From my perspective, God is an energy force. Albeit, a special kind of energy which is not yet detectable by physical science. It doesn't have human attributes, it doesn't need them. The same energy force which created this universe, reality, time, space, light, gravity and life, is constantly flowing within our dimensions and is available for us to utilize as spiritually-connected creatures. If people want to stick their heads in the sand and not acknowledge this force, it's not a problem for me or for it.

"...God is an energy force. Albeit, a special kind of energy which is not yet detectable by physical science."

How convenient for those making claims to "special kinds" of gawds. This is the kind of argument not detectable during rational discourse because it relies on appeals to "because I say so" not taken seriously by grownups.

But I never said "special kind of God" ...those are your words. And yes, I'm sorry but my personal spiritual faith relies on a "because I say so" argument and that is good enough for me. You're not obligated to accept my argument.

 

[Hollie]

Yet you have so much faith a god created such an imperfect world? And cares about you but not the bunny rabbits or turtles and birds? How can you not see your wishful thinking?

But I don't believe in a God who cares about me. Remember, I am not a Christian. From my perspective, God is an energy force. Albeit, a special kind of energy which is not yet detectable by physical science. It doesn't have human attributes, it doesn't need them. The same energy force which created this universe, reality, time, space, light, gravity and life, is constantly flowing within our dimensions and is available for us to utilize as spiritually-connected creatures. If people want to stick their heads in the sand and not acknowledge this force, it's not a problem for me or for it.

"...God is an energy force. Albeit, a special kind of energy which is not yet detectable by physical science."

How convenient for those making claims to "special kinds" of gawds. This is the kind of argument not detectable during rational discourse because it relies on appeals to "because I say so" not taken seriously by grownups.

But I never said "special kind of God" ...those are your words. And yes, I'm sorry but my personal spiritual faith relies on a "because I say so" argument and that is good enough for me. You're not obligated to accept my argument.

Your gawds are special in that they are a creation of yours. I just find it comical that you claim not to be religious yet you invent gawds that rule over your invented spirit realms.

 

[Boss]

The original question is baffling. What created everything we see? There may not be a creator or reason but that seems so hard to believe.

It seems incredibly hard to believe. In fact, one has to ask himself, how can you possibly believe all of this is by random chance? It's not baffling when you have connected with spiritual nature and realize it exists. Suddenly it all becomes very clear and understandable.

Or you could be wrong. You haven't convinced me but atheist scientists have. But don't worry. We aren't evil I promise.

But I'm not wrong, I am certain. You see, it does not matter if you are convinced. That has no bearing on what I am absolutely positive exists. It also doesn't matter if you are evil. I don't get any points for talking you out of being evil or extra credits for you being good. How you behave and what you believe are entirely up to you.

You are funny here sometimes because you type as you think, so you end up revealing your uncertainties; "....that seems so hard to believe." Then, you're right back up on your confidence pony with; "...You haven't convinced me but atheist scientists have."

So we see the portrait of a conflicted Silly Boob. It seems so hard for him to believe this is all without reason, purpose, intention and design... but atheists have convinced him anyway. That's very revealing, Boob!

FAITH is the belief in something not in evidence. SCIENCE does not draw conclusions, it only suggests probabilities. You can use those suggestions to form your own conclusions but science simply can't do that... it only explores possibility and deals with probability. So when you say you are certain of something, that science has concluded something, that atheists have convinced you of something, then what you are really actually saying is, you've abandoned science for faith.

"SCIENCE does not draw conclusions, it only suggests probabilities"

A classic Boss'ism.

Sorry, Bossy. You've been trolling at fundamentalist creation ministries for your science learnin' and that's always a disaster. Science leads to conclusions all the time. To conclude and publish for peer review is a process of the scientific method.

And the Airhead totally missed the point!

You admitted the same thing I stated, you just seem to believe Science wields powers it doesn't have. You will NEVER find a "conclusion" made by Science. All it can ever do is provide you data and information. From there, YOUUUUuuuuuuuuu.... are the one who draws conclusion, not Science.

And nope.... Conclusions, peer reviews and publications, have little to do with the scientific method. Conclusions are faith-based decisions, although in science the conclusions are supported by suggested probability provided by science. Such conclusions have often been disproved or found to be incomplete.

 

[Boss]

Physical things, of course, are not non-physical.

What a retard!

Yes, for me to have to make this obvious point, someone certainly is a retard.

So you admit "spiritual" is PC for "superstition."

Nope. Never said anything remotely close to this.

As for your spree of "Fallacy of Whateverums" ...this is just you exhibiting butt hurt because you can't really argue the points intellectually. In situations such as this, where you find yourself completely over your head on an intellectual basis, you morph into a delinquent smart-ass punk and start denigrating and lying.

It's really a shame because I believe in people and I know you're better than this. If your mind was not being controlled by your emotions, I am sure you could probably articulate some thought-provoking and stimulating debate.

I'll prove its all in our heads. What do people say when a surgery goes well? Thank god. Or when they win an academy award Oscar emmy or superbowl? Thank god. But trevon martins parents don't get to say that. The academy award losers just thank god they were nominated. People whos kids die in a plane crash. Where was god? I win a big hand of poker I say thank god. Is he involved in my poker hand?

Yet we all give god credit when no credit is due. He does not care if he exists at all.

I like the saying have a purpose for your life. Have a positive impact. Maybe if people worried more about here and now more than after we die we'd do much better.

What you are trying to do is project God in human form and then hold God accountable for not doing what any decent human would do. It's funny on so many levels... First, that you would even imagine that your little perverted pea-size brain could ever rationally comprehend what God has planned.

I already told you, I don't believe in a God who CARES! Caring is compassion by a human being. It can be our way of expressing love or empathy emotions as humans. God has no need for this because God is omnipotent and omniscient.

 

[Boss]

But the question is, how do us non spiritualists explain it. You just disqualified yourself by saying you are spiritual. I guess I am too to a degree but I tend to think we might have come from nothing and the universe is just because it is and it is all that is, was and will ever be. But not just our seeable universe of billions of galaxies. Even that's just pathetically small. We can't comprehend eternity. Yet theists think they will live for eternity. I tell you how I explain that. Easy. It's wishful thinking. Our most primitive ancestors without any evidence at all decided there must be a god. And no proof yet of his existence to this day. Any good scientific mind would have given up looking a long time ago. If you are spiritual it means you believe it matters if you are a good person or not. I agree and/or hope/believe that is true too.

Aww... Look at conflicted Boob.... One second he is non-spiritual, next second, he guesses he is spiritual to a degree. He believes that something came from nothing... True Magic! Totally in defiant contradiction of all known physics and science... something came from nothing! And for NO reason!

Yet theists think they will live for eternity.

Some do believe that our spirits live for eternity. I believe that "live" is a word we use to define the state in which we exist within the physical reality of our universe. After this state is complete, I believe something more profound than life awaits.

 

[Hollie]

The original question is baffling. What created everything we see? There may not be a creator or reason but that seems so hard to believe.

It seems incredibly hard to believe. In fact, one has to ask himself, how can you possibly believe all of this is by random chance? It's not baffling when you have connected with spiritual nature and realize it exists. Suddenly it all becomes very clear and understandable.

Or you could be wrong. You haven't convinced me but atheist scientists have. But don't worry. We aren't evil I promise.

But I'm not wrong, I am certain. You see, it does not matter if you are convinced. That has no bearing on what I am absolutely positive exists. It also doesn't matter if you are evil. I don't get any points for talking you out of being evil or extra credits for you being good. How you behave and what you believe are entirely up to you.

You are funny here sometimes because you type as you think, so you end up revealing your uncertainties; "....that seems so hard to believe." Then, you're right back up on your confidence pony with; "...You haven't convinced me but atheist scientists have."

So we see the portrait of a conflicted Silly Boob. It seems so hard for him to believe this is all without reason, purpose, intention and design... but atheists have convinced him anyway. That's very revealing, Boob!

FAITH is the belief in something not in evidence. SCIENCE does not draw conclusions, it only suggests probabilities. You can use those suggestions to form your own conclusions but science simply can't do that... it only explores possibility and deals with probability. So when you say you are certain of something, that science has concluded something, that atheists have convinced you of something, then what you are really actually saying is, you've abandoned science for faith.

"SCIENCE does not draw conclusions, it only suggests probabilities"

A classic Boss'ism.

Sorry, Bossy. You've been trolling at fundamentalist creation ministries for your science learnin' and that's always a disaster. Science leads to conclusions all the time. To conclude and publish for peer review is a process of the scientific method.

And the Airhead totally missed the point!

You admitted the same thing I stated, you just seem to believe Science wields powers it doesn't have. You will NEVER find a "conclusion" made by Science. All it can ever do is provide you data and information. From there, YOUUUUuuuuuuuuu.... are the one who draws conclusion, not Science.

And nope.... Conclusions, peer reviews and publications, have little to do with the scientific method. Conclusions are faith-based decisions, although in science the conclusions are supported by suggested probability provided by science. Such conclusions have often been disproved or found to be incomplete.

I can understand your lack of a science vocabulary leaves you befuddled when confronted with such references as the scientific method, but you should take some time to actually understand why you were contradicted.

 

[Hollie]

But the question is, how do us non spiritualists explain it. You just disqualified yourself by saying you are spiritual. I guess I am too to a degree but I tend to think we might have come from nothing and the universe is just because it is and it is all that is, was and will ever be. But not just our seeable universe of billions of galaxies. Even that's just pathetically small. We can't comprehend eternity. Yet theists think they will live for eternity. I tell you how I explain that. Easy. It's wishful thinking. Our most primitive ancestors without any evidence at all decided there must be a god. And no proof yet of his existence to this day. Any good scientific mind would have given up looking a long time ago. If you are spiritual it means you believe it matters if you are a good person or not. I agree and/or hope/believe that is true too.

Aww... Look at conflicted Boob.... One second he is non-spiritual, next second, he guesses he is spiritual to a degree. He believes that something came from nothing... True Magic! Totally in defiant contradiction of all known physics and science... something came from nothing! And for NO reason!

Yet theists think they will live for eternity.

Some do believe that our spirits live for eternity. I believe that "live" is a word we use to define the state in which we exist within the physical reality of our universe. After this state is complete, I believe something more profound than life awaits.

It's comical to read your rattling on about magical spirits and your spirit realms inhabited by the gawds you have invented.

 

[Boss]

Hmmm ... I'm going amend my previous post to say that I believe our planet, the galaxy, other galaxies and other universes are as they are because, given the givens, there is no other way they can be.

When I lived in Tucson, I would hear people say how amazing it was that, in such an inhospitable climate, giant saguaro cactus would grow for a couple of hundred years and weigh several tons.

The answer to that is they belong there. Given the givens, there is no other place they can live and in fact, saguaros do not occur anyplace else on earth besides the Sonora desert. IOW, thart climate is not inhospitable to all life forms.

Given the givens of our planet, the natural make up of our atmosphere, our degree of gravity, etc, etc, there is no other way we could have evolved.

You're not really answering a scientific question here. It's more like circular reasoning. Let's use an analogy... We have the presence of a glorious and delicious chocolate cake... We find evidence of an oven at 350 degrees, some mixing bowls and measuring cups, cake pans and utensils, flour and sugar, recipe book, etc. We're trying to figure out how the cake came to be, but we're not sure.. some say it was designed, some argue it is the result of sheer coincidence and chance. Your reasoning is, the chocolate cake exists because there is an oven at 350 degrees, and all these other things that are essential for the cake to exist...therefore, it must exist.

 

[Boss]

I can understand your lack of a science vocabulary leaves you befuddled when confronted with such references as the scientific method, but you should take some time to actually understand why you were contradicted.

Well, I do have a science degree, albeit in Psychology.
The scientific method describes our system of hypothesis, evidence gathering, testing and observing results, finding probability of possibility. Conclusions are reached from this and published then peer reviewed. The conclusions do not come from Science. All Science can ever do is evaluate probability of possibility, it's up to people to conclude.

Regardless of how much faith man has in his conclusions, or how solid they believe their science is to support their faith-based conclusions... Sometimes, they are wrong. Science isn't wrong, it can't be wrong or right, it is simply providing information to you and you are making the conclusions.

 

[Hollie]

I can understand your lack of a science vocabulary leaves you befuddled when confronted with such references as the scientific method, but you should take some time to actually understand why you were contradicted.

Well, I do have a science degree, albeit in Psychology.
The scientific method describes our system of hypothesis, evidence gathering, testing and observing results, finding probability of possibility. Conclusions are reached from this and published then peer reviewed. The conclusions do not come from Science. All Science can ever do is evaluate probability of possibility, it's up to people to conclude.

Regardless of how much faith man has in his conclusions, or how solid they believe their science is to support their faith-based conclusions... Sometimes, they are wrong. Science isn't wrong, it can't be wrong or right, it is simply providing information to you and you are making the conclusions.

You should avoid getting your science from fundamentalist creation ministries. Science is a process of discovery. There is no faith requirement in science. The process of peer review will assiduously test and refute. That process is, undeniably, absent regarding your religious claims involving gawds, spirit realms and other such appeals to supernaturalism.

You're simply reciting the dogma you read at the Institute for Creation Research.

 

[Carla_Danger]

Have you ever seen a ghost?

I feel that I have been in the presence of a ghost or spirit but I've never seen one.

Okay, so no, you've never seen one. I've never seen one either. I've never known anyone who's actually seen a ghost. With all the millions of ghost stories out there, you'd think we would have seen one by now.

 

[sealybobo]

Yet you have so much faith a god created such an imperfect world? And cares about you but not the bunny rabbits or turtles and birds? How can you not see your wishful thinking?

But I don't believe in a God who cares about me. Remember, I am not a Christian. From my perspective, God is an energy force. Albeit, a special kind of energy which is not yet detectable by physical science. It doesn't have human attributes, it doesn't need them. The same energy force which created this universe, reality, time, space, light, gravity and life, is constantly flowing within our dimensions and is available for us to utilize as spiritually-connected creatures. If people want to stick their heads in the sand and not acknowledge this force, it's not a problem for me or for it.

"...God is an energy force. Albeit, a special kind of energy which is not yet detectable by physical science."

How convenient for those making claims to "special kinds" of gawds. This is the kind of argument not detectable during rational discourse because it relies on appeals to "because I say so" not taken seriously by grownups.

But I never said "special kind of God" ...those are your words. And yes, I'm sorry but my personal spiritual faith relies on a "because I say so" argument and that is good enough for me. You're not obligated to accept my argument.

Your gawds are special in that they are a creation of yours. I just find it comical that you claim not to be religious yet you invent gawds that rule over your invented spirit realms.

I really don't care if people believe in god. If it makes them feel better. I think its a scam and harmful but who am i to ruin their ignorant bliss? Its believing non believers go to hell or should die that bothers me. Its why I hate religion and some religious people. And they can't help it they're brainwashed and really believe it. They aren't saying it just to be mean. They dont even realize theyre using a tactic.

 

[sealybobo]

The original question is baffling. What created everything we see? There may not be a creator or reason but that seems so hard to believe.

It seems incredibly hard to believe. In fact, one has to ask himself, how can you possibly believe all of this is by random chance? It's not baffling when you have connected with spiritual nature and realize it exists. Suddenly it all becomes very clear and understandable.

Or you could be wrong. You haven't convinced me but atheist scientists have. But don't worry. We aren't evil I promise.

But I'm not wrong, I am certain. You see, it does not matter if you are convinced. That has no bearing on what I am absolutely positive exists. It also doesn't matter if you are evil. I don't get any points for talking you out of being evil or extra credits for you being good. How you behave and what you believe are entirely up to you.

You are funny here sometimes because you type as you think, so you end up revealing your uncertainties; "....that seems so hard to believe." Then, you're right back up on your confidence pony with; "...You haven't convinced me but atheist scientists have."

So we see the portrait of a conflicted Silly Boob. It seems so hard for him to believe this is all without reason, purpose, intention and design... but atheists have convinced him anyway. That's very revealing, Boob!

FAITH is the belief in something not in evidence. SCIENCE does not draw conclusions, it only suggests probabilities. You can use those suggestions to form your own conclusions but science simply can't do that... it only explores possibility and deals with probability. So when you say you are certain of something, that science has concluded something, that atheists have convinced you of something, then what you are really actually saying is, you've abandoned science for faith.

"SCIENCE does not draw conclusions, it only suggests probabilities"

A classic Boss'ism.

Sorry, Bossy. You've been trolling at fundamentalist creation ministries for your science learnin' and that's always a disaster. Science leads to conclusions all the time. To conclude and publish for peer review is a process of the scientific method.

And the Airhead totally missed the point!

You admitted the same thing I stated, you just seem to believe Science wields powers it doesn't have. You will NEVER find a "conclusion" made by Science. All it can ever do is provide you data and information. From there, YOUUUUuuuuuuuuu.... are the one who draws conclusion, not Science.

And nope.... Conclusions, peer reviews and publications, have little to do with the scientific method. Conclusions are faith-based decisions, although in science the conclusions are supported by suggested probability provided by science. Such conclusions have often been disproved or found to be incomplete.

Yea but a scientific theory is the highest honor an idea can get. Like a gold medal or Oscar or Grammy.

 

[sealybobo]

But the question is, how do us non spiritualists explain it. You just disqualified yourself by saying you are spiritual. I guess I am too to a degree but I tend to think we might have come from nothing and the universe is just because it is and it is all that is, was and will ever be. But not just our seeable universe of billions of galaxies. Even that's just pathetically small. We can't comprehend eternity. Yet theists think they will live for eternity. I tell you how I explain that. Easy. It's wishful thinking. Our most primitive ancestors without any evidence at all decided there must be a god. And no proof yet of his existence to this day. Any good scientific mind would have given up looking a long time ago. If you are spiritual it means you believe it matters if you are a good person or not. I agree and/or hope/believe that is true too.

Aww... Look at conflicted Boob.... One second he is non-spiritual, next second, he guesses he is spiritual to a degree. He believes that something came from nothing... True Magic! Totally in defiant contradiction of all known physics and science... something came from nothing! And for NO reason!

Yet theists think they will live for eternity.

Some do believe that our spirits live for eternity. I believe that "live" is a word we use to define the state in which we exist within the physical reality of our universe. After this state is complete, I believe something more profound than life awaits.

It's comical to read your rattling on about magical spirits and your spirit realms inhabited by the gawds you have invented.

He's saying that if indians in america came up with gods and Greeks thought up gods and Jews and every other culture came up with "there must be a god" that there must be something to it.

How could native americans just come up with god and half way around the world those people came up with gods and Africans.

I just realized something. Since every god is different for every culture maybe there are as many gods as there are races. A Chinese god a German god a Greek god Hawaiian god etc. This is what I believe. How many different languages are there? That's how many gods there are.

 

[Boss]

You should avoid getting your science from fundamentalist creation ministries. Science is a process of discovery. There is no faith requirement in science. The process of peer review will assiduously test and refute. That process is, undeniably, absent regarding your religious claims involving gawds, spirit realms and other such appeals to supernaturalism.

You're simply reciting the dogma you read at the Institute for Creation Research.

Science is a process of discovery. There is no faith requirement in science.

Absolutely! That's what I am telling you. Once you've determined a conclusion, Science clocks out, it's work is done. It's down at the local pub having a beer while you parade around and pontificate your conclusions.

The process of peer review will assiduously test and refute.

Then there isn't a conclusion. If testing and refuting continues, the science is still at work and nothing is concluded.

Now what you are trying to do is have it both ways... Science continues testing and refuting while being conclusive, and that contradicts logic. A conclusion means there is no more to be said, the argument and debate are over, all the science evidence is in, we have tested it and observed it repeatedly and there is no denying the results. Science is not needed at this point, it can't do anything with a conclusion. From the very second you made the conclusion, you stopped practicing Science and began practicing a faith-based belief. Congratulations!