How do the non-spiritual explain it?

[Boss]

Okay, so no, you've never seen one. I've never seen one either. I've never known anyone who's actually seen a ghost. With all the millions of ghost stories out there, you'd think we would have seen one by now.

Have you ever seen Keplar 186f? It's supposedly an earth-like planet in a solar system 500 light years from Earth. If you get the chance, google it and have a look.. the Internet is full of renderings of what the planet supposedly looks like, but we can't see it actually. We've only detected it's presence with very powerful telescopes. We know nothing of it's atmosphere or resources, just that it is similar in size to Earth with a similar size Sun, and in the "Goldilocks zone." Still... there are people on the Internet who honestly believe we've found the Twin Earth. The rendering depict a lush green and blue planet like our own, it looks to be a duplicate... but we have absolutely NO idea if this rendering is true or not. It's only an artist's depiction of a possibility.

Have you ever seen dark energy or dark matter? You should be able to, it's passing through your body as you read this post. It makes up 96% of our universe... seems like we would see it. Science has discovered this, it's not just me making up nonsense. There are things we can't see in the universe.

And that 's not all too surprising. A common hawk can see a field mouse from 300 yards away... a snake needs no light to see, it can see heat. Bats see by radar. So our rather limited and scrawny ability to visually see things is not the most profound thing in the world in which we know of, much less the cosmos.

 

[Boss]

He's saying that if indians in america came up with gods and Greeks thought up gods and Jews and every other culture came up with "there must be a god" that there must be something to it.

How could native americans just come up with god and half way around the world those people came up with gods and Africans.

I just realized something. Since every god is different for every culture maybe there are as many gods as there are races. A Chinese god a German god a Greek god Hawaiian god etc. This is what I believe. How many different languages are there? That's how many gods there are.

In the wise word of the great philosopher, Jewel... "So we pray to as many different God's as there are flowers, we call religion our friend... We're so worried about saving our souls, afraid God will take His toll that we forget to begin..."

We are all the same human race. We are designed and created with spiritual awareness built in. Whether "something is to it" is not relative to that fact. I believe a rational mind realizes there must be something to it. Especially since science continues opening new doors which all seem to lead to that ultimate conclusion. And yes... Conclusion is still a faith-based concept. We can only believe we know truth.

 

[sealybobo]

You should avoid getting your science from fundamentalist creation ministries. Science is a process of discovery. There is no faith requirement in science. The process of peer review will assiduously test and refute. That process is, undeniably, absent regarding your religious claims involving gawds, spirit realms and other such appeals to supernaturalism.

You're simply reciting the dogma you read at the Institute for Creation Research.

Science is a process of discovery. There is no faith requirement in science.

Absolutely! That's what I am telling you. Once you've determined a conclusion, Science clocks out, it's work is done. It's down at the local pub having a beer while you parade around and pontificate your conclusions.

The process of peer review will assiduously test and refute.

Then there isn't a conclusion. If testing and refuting continues, the science is still at work and nothing is concluded.

Now what you are trying to do is have it both ways... Science continues testing and refuting while being conclusive, and that contradicts logic. A conclusion means there is no more to be said, the argument and debate are over, all the science evidence is in, we have tested it and observed it repeatedly and there is no denying the results. Science is not needed at this point, it can't do anything with a conclusion. From the very second you made the conclusion, you stopped practicing Science and began practicing a faith-based belief. Congratulations!

You've given science zero evidence just words. At this point your imaginary friend is just a hypothesis.

 

[sealybobo]

Okay, so no, you've never seen one. I've never seen one either. I've never known anyone who's actually seen a ghost. With all the millions of ghost stories out there, you'd think we would have seen one by now.

Have you ever seen Keplar 186f? It's supposedly an earth-like planet in a solar system 500 light years from Earth. If you get the chance, google it and have a look.. the Internet is full of renderings of what the planet supposedly looks like, but we can't see it actually. We've only detected it's presence with very powerful telescopes. We know nothing of it's atmosphere or resources, just that it is similar in size to Earth with a similar size Sun, and in the "Goldilocks zone." Still... there are people on the Internet who honestly believe we've found the Twin Earth. The rendering depict a lush green and blue planet like our own, it looks to be a duplicate... but we have absolutely NO idea if this rendering is true or not. It's only an artist's depiction of a possibility.

Have you ever seen dark energy or dark matter? You should be able to, it's passing through your body as you read this post. It makes up 96% of our universe... seems like we would see it. Science has discovered this, it's not just me making up nonsense. There are things we can't see in the universe.

And that 's not all too surprising. A common hawk can see a field mouse from 300 yards away... a snake needs no light to see, it can see heat. Bats see by radar. So our rather limited and scrawny ability to visually see things is not the most profound thing in the world in which we know of, much less the cosmos.

There are things called nutinos and they cut through the earth as they travel through the cosmos. Science found them and not while pontificating about god.

Do you realize we are looking 500 years into the past when we see that planet that is 500 light years away? Even if we see people waving to us those are just 500 year old ghosts. Long since died. Who knows if that planet even exists anymore. Itll take 500 years to figure that out.

 

[Boss]

You should avoid getting your science from fundamentalist creation ministries. Science is a process of discovery. There is no faith requirement in science. The process of peer review will assiduously test and refute. That process is, undeniably, absent regarding your religious claims involving gawds, spirit realms and other such appeals to supernaturalism.

You're simply reciting the dogma you read at the Institute for Creation Research.

Science is a process of discovery. There is no faith requirement in science.

Absolutely! That's what I am telling you. Once you've determined a conclusion, Science clocks out, it's work is done. It's down at the local pub having a beer while you parade around and pontificate your conclusions.

The process of peer review will assiduously test and refute.

Then there isn't a conclusion. If testing and refuting continues, the science is still at work and nothing is concluded.

Now what you are trying to do is have it both ways... Science continues testing and refuting while being conclusive, and that contradicts logic. A conclusion means there is no more to be said, the argument and debate are over, all the science evidence is in, we have tested it and observed it repeatedly and there is no denying the results. Science is not needed at this point, it can't do anything with a conclusion. From the very second you made the conclusion, you stopped practicing Science and began practicing a faith-based belief. Congratulations!

You've given science zero evidence just words. At this point your imaginary friend is just a hypothesis.

What is Science? The physical study of physical nature of the physical universe. It can't have evidence of spiritual nature without making the spiritual nature physical, therefore a paradox exists that can't be overcome. If I can ever give you physical evidence of something spiritual, it is not spiritual any more.

It's not my imagination when I realize blessings from a spiritual source. If these did not happen rather routinely in my life, I would probably abandon spirituality as unimportant to me as a person, as you have. But I dig the bennies too much man! It helps me to cope with all kinds of things in my life and resolve many conflicts. I just feel a whole lot more complete and content as a person, my mind is not wrought with overwhelming frustration and need for validation. It gives me a confidence to resolve problems without fear of failure and inspires me to broaden my horizons. To see the Big Picture better than I ever have in my life. My worst day with Spirituality is greater than my best day without it. But you are here trying to talk me into "not believing in it" as if that's going to happen somehow... it's really cute to me.

 

[edthecynic]

What is Science? The physical study of physical nature of the physical universe. It can't have evidence of spiritual nature without making the spiritual nature physical, therefore a paradox exists that can't be overcome. If I can ever give you physical evidence of something spiritual, it is not spiritual any more.

Yet you claimed physical healing was evidence of the spiritual.

If the spiritual could truly effect the physical, then Science would be able to measure it.

 

[Hollie]

You should avoid getting your science from fundamentalist creation ministries. Science is a process of discovery. There is no faith requirement in science. The process of peer review will assiduously test and refute. That process is, undeniably, absent regarding your religious claims involving gawds, spirit realms and other such appeals to supernaturalism.

You're simply reciting the dogma you read at the Institute for Creation Research.

Science is a process of discovery. There is no faith requirement in science.

Absolutely! That's what I am telling you. Once you've determined a conclusion, Science clocks out, it's work is done. It's down at the local pub having a beer while you parade around and pontificate your conclusions.

The process of peer review will assiduously test and refute.

Then there isn't a conclusion. If testing and refuting continues, the science is still at work and nothing is concluded.

Now what you are trying to do is have it both ways... Science continues testing and refuting while being conclusive, and that contradicts logic. A conclusion means there is no more to be said, the argument and debate are over, all the science evidence is in, we have tested it and observed it repeatedly and there is no denying the results. Science is not needed at this point, it can't do anything with a conclusion. From the very second you made the conclusion, you stopped practicing Science and began practicing a faith-based belief. Congratulations!

You really expose your appalling lack of understanding regarding the sciences with your comments. Science doesn't "clock out". The process of science is to explore and discover. That process of discovery is exampled by the work being untaken at CERN for one example.

Like many religious fundamentalists, your revulsion for science derives from your insistence that the gawds and spirit realms you have created are immutable and never-changing.

 

[Boss]

What is Science? The physical study of physical nature of the physical universe. It can't have evidence of spiritual nature without making the spiritual nature physical, therefore a paradox exists that can't be overcome. If I can ever give you physical evidence of something spiritual, it is not spiritual any more.

Yet you claimed physical healing was evidence of the spiritual.

If the spiritual could truly effect the physical, then Science would be able to measure it.

When did I claim that, Ed? Physical healing is the evidence of physical healing. Are you meaning to say spiritual healing? Still, not my argument, I only mentioned that Emily had posted about this and I know that studies have been done.

For the record, there are things that effect other things which science cannot measure. So it is never a foregone conclusion that science would be able to measure it if it were happening. It must be nice having so much arrogant hubris as to make Science into your God.

 

[amrchaos]

I guess the same way we explain alien abductions and the loch ness monster?

I mean, don't you find it bizarre when an abductee talk about anal probes? I do. In fact, I think that he/she should keep that part of the "experience" confidential.

 

[Boss]

There are things called nutinos and they cut through the earth as they travel through the cosmos. Science found them and not while pontificating about god.

Do you realize we are looking 500 years into the past when we see that planet that is 500 light years away? Even if we see people waving to us those are just 500 year old ghosts. Long since died. Who knows if that planet even exists anymore. Itll take 500 years to figure that out.

Wow... things that are invisible and able to pass through solid objects like the Earth? Sounds like 'magic' or 'spiritual energy' to me! Definitely something "supernatural" there! But science discovered it and stuck a label on it! Do you have any idea why neutrinos exist in this universe?

Do you realize that EVERYTHING we look at is in the past? Yep... It is humanly impossible to see the present! Wait...whut? Did Boss flip his lid? Nope... think about it. What we see is a reflection of light which bounced off something in the past. The light traveled to our eyes, the eyes sent an optical signal to the brain and the brain then realized an image of something now and forever in the past. Freaky shit, right?

 

[edthecynic]

What is Science? The physical study of physical nature of the physical universe. It can't have evidence of spiritual nature without making the spiritual nature physical, therefore a paradox exists that can't be overcome. If I can ever give you physical evidence of something spiritual, it is not spiritual any more.

Yet you claimed physical healing was evidence of the spiritual.

If the spiritual could truly effect the physical, then Science would be able to measure it.

When did I claim that, Ed? Physical healing is the evidence of physical healing. Are you meaning to say spiritual healing? Still, not my argument, I only mentioned that Emily had posted about this and I know that studies have been done..

Just more of your double speak. If "spiritualism" could cure a disease then it can be measured. What you call a spiritual is just superstitious coincidence!

Human spiritualism has been curing diseases for 100,000 years.

Can you provide an example of a disease cured by the gawds of your spirit realms?

All of them.

No, really. Identify just one disease that was cured by the gawds of your spirit realms.

Already told ya.... ALL OF THEM!

 

[Boss]

You really expose your appalling lack of understanding regarding the sciences with your comments. Science doesn't "clock out". The process of science is to explore and discover.

I understand what science does. It doesn't draw conclusions. Once you've drawn conclusion, what are you to explore and discover? The conclusion was your answer, the exploration and discovery are complete... science is done.

As I said before, what you want is to have this both ways... Science is conclusive but continues to explore and discover, and those two concepts are contradictory. If exploration and discovery are still happening, the work of science is not complete and there has been no conclusion.

The process of science is to explore and discover.

This has been MY argument all along, but you're insisting that science has made conclusions. A conclusion is NOT exploration or discovery.

 

[amrchaos]

There are things called nutinos and they cut through the earth as they travel through the cosmos. Science found them and not while pontificating about god.

Do you realize we are looking 500 years into the past when we see that planet that is 500 light years away? Even if we see people waving to us those are just 500 year old ghosts. Long since died. Who knows if that planet even exists anymore. Itll take 500 years to figure that out.

Wow... things that are invisible and able to pass through solid objects like the Earth? Sounds like 'magic' or 'spiritual energy' to me! Definitely something "supernatural" there! But science discovered it and stuck a label on it! Do you have any idea why neutrinos exist in this universe?

Do you realize that EVERYTHING we look at is in the past? Yep... It is humanly impossible to see the present! Wait...whut? Did Boss flip his lid? Nope... think about it. What we see is a reflection of light which bounced off something in the past. The light traveled to our eyes, the eyes sent an optical signal to the brain and the brain then realized an image of something now and forever in the past. Freaky shit, right?

A new take of the saying
"The past is in 20/20"

 

[edthecynic]

Wow... things that are invisible and able to pass through solid objects like the Earth? Sounds like 'magic' or 'spiritual energy' to me! Definitely something "supernatural" there! But science discovered it and stuck a label on it!

Only because you are completely ignorant of science!!!
Science did more than "stuck a label on it," science MEASURED it!!!!!
Nothing spiritual or supernatural about neutrinos, they are purely physical, you are just superstitious to call then spiritual and supernatural.

 

[Boss]

Just more of your double speak. If "spiritualism" could cure a disease then it can be measured. What you call a spiritual is just superstitious coincidence!

Nah... Emily posted about this numerous times, go look up "spiritual medicine." Studies have been done and we have measured the results. We found that spirituality is beneficial in treating illnesses. You can claim this is superstitious coincidence but the science has been done and the results are undeniable. Humans are free to draw whatever conclusions they wish from the science.

 

[Boss]

Only because you are completely ignorant of science!!!
Science did more than "stuck a label on it," science MEASURED it!!!!!

Really? How did we measure something we can't see, touch, hear, taste or smell? How do I know this for certain? Are you asking me to have FAITH?

 

[Boss]

Nothing spiritual or supernatural about neutrinos, they are purely physical, you are just superstitious to call then spiritual and supernatural.

I didn't call them spiritual and supernatural, I said it sounds like they are. This thread is inundated with closed-minded little morons such as yourself, who keep mocking spiritual energy because you can't detect it with your physical senses or measure it with your instruments. Before we were able to detect neutrinos, you'd have said the same about them. Yet, science has confirmed their existence.

Again... It's ALWAYS a safe bet to say that Spiritual things can't be proven Physically. Anything thought to be spiritual, if confirmed physically, no longer remains spiritual... like the neutrino, it becomes something physical and evidenced by physical science.

 

[edthecynic]

Only because you are completely ignorant of science!!!
Science did more than "stuck a label on it," science MEASURED it!!!!!

Really? How did we measure something we can't see, touch, hear, taste or smell? How do I know this for certain? Are you asking me to have FAITH?

Idiot! Scientists are not as stupid as YOU!

IceCube Neutrino Observatory

IceCube is a particle detector at the South Pole that records the interactions of a nearly massless subatomic particle called the neutrino. IceCube searches for neutrinos from the most violent astrophysical sources: events like exploding stars, gamma-ray bursts, and cataclysmic phenomena involving black holes and neutron stars. The IceCube telescope is a powerful tool to search for dark matter and could reveal the new physical processes associated with the enigmatic origin of the highest energy particles in nature. In addition, exploring the background of neutrinos produced in the atmosphere, IceCube studies the neutrinos themselves; their energies far exceed those produced by accelerator beams. IceCube is the world’s largest neutrino detector, encompassing a cubic kilometer of ice.

 

[edthecynic]

Nothing spiritual or supernatural about neutrinos, they are purely physical, you are just superstitious to call then spiritual and supernatural.

I didn't call them spiritual and supernatural, I said it sounds like they are.

Just more of your superstitious double speak.

 

[Boss]

Only because you are completely ignorant of science!!!
Science did more than "stuck a label on it," science MEASURED it!!!!!

Really? How did we measure something we can't see, touch, hear, taste or smell? How do I know this for certain? Are you asking me to have FAITH?

Idiot! Scientists are not as stupid as YOU!

IceCube Neutrino Observatory

IceCube is a particle detector at the South Pole that records the interactions of a nearly massless subatomic particle called the neutrino. IceCube searches for neutrinos from the most violent astrophysical sources: events like exploding stars, gamma-ray bursts, and cataclysmic phenomena involving black holes and neutron stars. The IceCube telescope is a powerful tool to search for dark matter and could reveal the new physical processes associated with the enigmatic origin of the highest energy particles in nature. In addition, exploring the background of neutrinos produced in the atmosphere, IceCube studies the neutrinos themselves; their energies far exceed those produced by accelerator beams. IceCube is the world’s largest neutrino detector, encompassing a cubic kilometer of ice.

IceCube studies the neutrinos themselves......