How do you explain a ordered universe without a Creator?

[Mudda]

It is either a closed or open universe and closed implies God did it.

Why?

A closed universe implies a Creator because an open universe is infinity which cannot be described by man.

How does a closed universe imply a creator? And an open universe didn't need to be created? Huh?

 

[Mudda]

God isn't a "someone". Not a "he" nor a "her". God is God. Not a "being", but an eternal power that is beyond this Universe yet we are all part of it.

This is a difficult concept for them. Most God deniers simply can't comprehend any other type of existence than physical. If it isn't physical, it isn't real. I've answered this question thousands of times... probably dozens of times for Mudda... they just keep on asking it because they can't comprehend Spiritual existence.

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not fucking Bossy. lol.

Bossy has zero proof for his claims, I thought I'd let them know that in advance.

Sure I do. Logic. The physical universe cannot have created itself. It's a paradox in physics... nothing can create itself because it would have to already exist. So physics must logically be perpetually eternal which makes it spiritual or it has to be created by something outside of physical nature.

Cmon man, don't start with your nonsense. You connect things as fact when you're simply making it all up.

Well let's see what I've made up...

40-something cosmological constants that math says do not have to be precision tuned in a random universe but we find they are incredibly fine tuned. Not made up.

Paradox of physics. A physical thing is incapable of creating itself. Physical nature could not have created itself. Not made up.

Eternal, everlasting and infinite are not physical concepts and cannot be defined with mathematical measurement. They are a nightmare to the physicist. Not made up.

Hmmmm... maybe you can give me a hint at what you think I've made up?

Okay, I know what I can do... Let me TRY to make something up!

At the limits of our ability to physically examine our universe with physical science, we continue to discover the same result... our principles of physics which govern every aspect we understand in science, cease to function as we understand them. This has been encountered with black holes at the event horizon, where Einstein's theories spiral wildly out of control. It is encountered again when studying the atom at the subatomic level. Electrons pop in and out of existence, occupy two spaces at the same time or no place at any time, entangled particles passing information faster than light speed.... that kind of thing.

Shit... Sorry, as ridiculously crazy as all of that sounds, it's also not made up.

You're too fucking annoying and don't understand the simplest concepts. Buh-Bye.

 

[edthecynic]

From nothing, nothing comes.

Agreed. So where did the Universe come from?

Deep from our minds? Do you know another trusted source of Universe?

Correction. There is no know process that can create or destroy energy. Doesn't mean it can't be done. I believe it can. Otherwise energy would have to be eternal, which violates the laws of physics.

And exactly what law would that be?
You do realize that the fact that energy cannot be created nor destroyed IS a Law of physics, don't you?

 

[zaangalewa]

You did not understand, what I said into the crying loudness of your supreme existance, where everyone is a subhuman idiot, if he's not you, Nazi.

So who created god?

no comment, Nazi

You don't know who created god. Got it.

No comment, Nazi.

Your ignorance has been duly noted.

No comment. Nazi.

 

[zaangalewa]

God created the world out of a situation of a totally nonexistance.

From nothing, nothing comes.

Except everything. If the universe had a first cause then this first cause was without cause - otherwise it would had not been a first cause. And as far as we can see: it started once to exist. And it's not over yet.

 

[zaangalewa]

From nothing, nothing comes.

Agreed. So where did the Universe come from?

Deep from our minds? Do you know another trusted source of Universe?

Correction. There is no know process that can create or destroy energy. Doesn't mean it can't be done. I believe it can. Otherwise energy would have to be eternal, which violates the laws of physics.

What you call "process" is "transformation of energy". A transformation of energy is never able to create or to destroy energy.

 

[zaangalewa]

What's by the way a very interesting idea, because our universe seems to be a flat universe wherein the geometry of Euclid is valid: So no one is able to know wether it is "closed" or "open".

if we could travel through the universe, then we would always see an expanding universe in all directions. A traveler through the universe would always be in the middle - every point of the universe is always in the middle of the universe

But wouldn't that imply some kind of looped universe rather than a flat one?

An expanding flat universe would imply an edge of expansion.

"Flat" means a triangle in the size of many [millions of] lightyears has three angles with together 180°. And the universe expands - since some billion years this expansion is even accelerating. And I don't have any idea what an "edge of expansion" could be nor what a "looping universe" could be. Wherein could it loop? It seems to me - if I trust in my informations - it is not in an endless loop of creation and destruction because its entropy is not in a maximum. It had a beginning.



PS. "Eines Tages habe ein belebendes Glimmern und wärmendes Schimmern das Chaos durchzogen. Das kam von Eros, dem Gott der himmlischen Liebe, dem ersten der Götter."
unknown source

 

[Sbiker]

From nothing, nothing comes.

Agreed. So where did the Universe come from?

Deep from our minds? Do you know another trusted source of Universe?

Correction. There is no know process that can create or destroy energy. Doesn't mean it can't be done. I believe it can. Otherwise energy would have to be eternal, which violates the laws of physics.

And exactly what law would that be?
You do realize that the fact that energy cannot be created nor destroyed IS a Law of physics, don't you?

No. How do you understand, what is law of physics and how it violates? Only by mind. Mind is a start and an end of all existing

 

[Sbiker]

From nothing, nothing comes.

Agreed. So where did the Universe come from?

Deep from our minds? Do you know another trusted source of Universe?

Correction. There is no know process that can create or destroy energy. Doesn't mean it can't be done. I believe it can. Otherwise energy would have to be eternal, which violates the laws of physics.

What you call "process" is "transformation of energy". A transformation of energy is never able to create or to destroy energy.

And this transformation is only in our minds

 

[zaangalewa]

From nothing, nothing comes.

Agreed. So where did the Universe come from?

Deep from our minds? Do you know another trusted source of Universe?

Correction. There is no know process that can create or destroy energy. Doesn't mean it can't be done. I believe it can. Otherwise energy would have to be eternal, which violates the laws of physics.

What you call "process" is "transformation of energy". A transformation of energy is never able to create or to destroy energy.

And this transformation is only in our minds

What? If you drive with your car then for example the potential energy of the car changes if you drive from a valley to the mountains. This change was made via the energy of the motion of the car - this energie of the motion of the car came - while electromagnetical energy helped - from oxidation with diesel for example. the Diesel got his chemical energy from living creatures of the past and/or from plants. They got their energy from the light of the sun. Lots of processes are necessarry to produce the controlled explosions in the motor of your car. I guess this all works because the entropy grows - but no process creates or destroys energy. It's always only a transformation.

 

[Sbiker]

Agreed. So where did the Universe come from?

Deep from our minds? Do you know another trusted source of Universe?

Correction. There is no know process that can create or destroy energy. Doesn't mean it can't be done. I believe it can. Otherwise energy would have to be eternal, which violates the laws of physics.

What you call "process" is "transformation of energy". A transformation of energy is never able to create or to destroy energy.

And this transformation is only in our minds

What? If you drive with your car then for example the potential energy of the car changes if you drive from a valley to the mountains. This change was made via the energy of the motion of the car - this energie of the motion of the car came - while electromagnetical energy helped - from oxidation with diesel for example. the Diesel got his chemical energy from living creatures of the past and/or from plants. They got their energy from the light of the sun. Lots of processes are necessarry to produce the controlled explosions in the motor of your car. I guess this all works because the entropy grows - but no process creates or destroys energy. It's always only a transformation.

Generally, how can you be sure about existanse of energy? Yes, you can feel some sorts of energy, like temperature of environment or brightness of light. But how can you feel a potential energy of car? You just receiving info about car position through your eyes, processing this information, according with physics theories, and making a conclusion of potential energy existence. But recognition and processing of information is only result of your mindwork. So, almost all science concepts are speculative, they exist only because they can predict some things better, than other concepts And the question, is the real, objective universe exists, or it's still an imagination of our... why our? of MY or YOUR mind - is still open...

Am I exist, or I'm just a creature of YOUR mind?



P.S. If the entropy really exists - show me a piece of it

 

[zaangalewa]

Deep from our minds? Do you know another trusted source of Universe?

Correction. There is no know process that can create or destroy energy. Doesn't mean it can't be done. I believe it can. Otherwise energy would have to be eternal, which violates the laws of physics.

What you call "process" is "transformation of energy". A transformation of energy is never able to create or to destroy energy.

And this transformation is only in our minds

What? If you drive with your car then for example the potential energy of the car changes if you drive from a valley to the mountains. This change was made via the energy of the motion of the car - this energie of the motion of the car came - while electromagnetical energy helped - from oxidation with diesel for example. the Diesel got his chemical energy from living creatures of the past and/or from plants. They got their energy from the light of the sun. Lots of processes are necessarry to produce the controlled explosions in the motor of your car. I guess this all works because the entropy grows - but no process creates or destroys energy. It's always only a transformation.

Generally, how can you be sure about existanse of energy?

I made the mistake to hammer my finger instead of a nail. The energy of the hammer in my finger was first bloody, then red, later blue. But they told me this had nothing to do with colored quarks.

Yes, you can feel some sorts of energy, like temperature of environment or brightness of light. But how can you feel a potential energy of car?

You just receiving info about car position through your eyes, processing this information, according with physics theories, and making a conclusion of potential energy existence. But recognition and processing of information is only result of your mindwork.

Not only mindwork. All psychological processes simulate something. Bees for example are able to see flowers in another way and with other colors than we are doing. This knows my mindwork.

So, almost all science concepts are speculative, they exist only because they can predict some things better, than other concepts And the question, is the real, objective universe exists,

It exists.

or it's still an imagination of our... why our? of MY or YOUR mind - is still open...

Am I exist, or I'm just a creature of YOUR mind?

You don't speak German but nonsense. No no. I would construct a chair - a long drink - a swimming pool and some nice people all around me. Nevertheless I believe the moon is in the the sky even if no one watches the moon or is able to watch the moon. And the moon is not a square moon and says "Hello" but has a halo. And so on and so on.

P.S. If the entropy really exists - show me a piece of it

(PS. Your video "across the universe" is on reasons of copyright inaccessible in Germany)

 

[Divine Wind]

Deep from our minds? Do you know another trusted source of Universe?

If you want to lapse into Solipsism, I can't stop you since, in your opinion, I'm only a figment of your imagination.

 

[Mudda]

So who created god?

no comment, Nazi

You don't know who created god. Got it.

No comment, Nazi.

Your ignorance has been duly noted.

No comment. Nazi.

Is it tough going through life so clueless that you can't even respond properly and have no problem showing everyone what an ass you are??

 

[Mudda]

(PS. Your video "across the universe" is on reasons of copyright inaccessible in Germany)

So you found a way to rip them off. Nice work Adolf.

 

[Divine Wind]

From nothing, nothing comes.

Agreed. So where did the Universe come from?

Deep from our minds? Do you know another trusted source of Universe?

Correction. There is no know process that can create or destroy energy. Doesn't mean it can't be done. I believe it can. Otherwise energy would have to be eternal, which violates the laws of physics.

Agreed about "no know process", but it seems to be a fundamental rule of the Natural Universe. Since all evidence indicates ours is an open universe beginning with a Big Bang and ending in the Big Chill of maximum entropy, energy will exist infinitely. All of which neither confirms nor denies the existence of the Almighty.

 

[zaangalewa]

no comment, Nazi

You don't know who created god. Got it.

No comment, Nazi.

Your ignorance has been duly noted.

No comment. Nazi.

Is it tough going through life so clueless that you can't even respond properly and have no problem showing everyone what an ass you are??

No comment. Nazi

 

[zaangalewa]

(PS. Your video "across the universe" is on reasons of copyright inaccessible in Germany)

So you found a way to rip them off. Nice work Adolf.

By the way - how many tryings do I have to find out that your name is Erdogan, Rumpelstiltskin, nazilike one?

 

[hobelim]

By the way - how many tryings do I have to find out that your name is Erdogan, Rumpelstiltskin, nazilike one?

How many more years will it take before you realize that the bizarre religious beliefs that you have allowed to take root in your mind and perpetuate impairs your ability to be honest and rational, the keys to a fruitful and happy life, and consistently makes you say and do stupid things in the same way that malware cripples a computers ability to function effectively?

 

[Mudda]

(PS. Your video "across the universe" is on reasons of copyright inaccessible in Germany)

So you found a way to rip them off. Nice work Adolf.

By the way - how many tryings do I have to find out that your name is Erdogan, Rumpelstiltskin, nazilike one?

I bet you have a small mustache like Adolf, Adolf.