How do you explain a ordered universe without a Creator?

[zaangalewa]

It is either a closed or open universe and closed implies God did it.

What's by the way a very interesting idea, because our universe seems to be a flat universe wherein the geometry of Euclid is valid: So no one is able to know wether it is "closed" or "open". And the universe expands from all points of the universe in all directions, what means if we could travel through the universe, then we would always see an expanding universe in all directions. A traveler through the universe would always be in the middle - every point of the universe is always in the middle of the universe - while the universe has the same time no boundary, no outside.

 

[xband]

It is either a closed or open universe and closed implies God did it.

I fail to see your logic either way. FWIW, all evidence indicates an open universe.

The structure of the Universe

I will throw a monkey wrench in the reduction gears. The speed of light may not be a constant.

 

[Divine Wind]

It is either a closed or open universe and closed implies God did it.

I fail to see your logic either way. FWIW, all evidence indicates an open universe.

The structure of the Universe

I will throw a monkey wrench in the reduction gears. The speed of light may not be a constant.

Even if true, it still means the Natural Universe follows rules including the speed of light:

Speed of Light May Not Be Constant, Physicists Say | Cosmology & Astronomy

 

[Mudda]

It is either a closed or open universe and closed implies God did it.

Why?

 

[xband]

In magical scientific circles it is usually the chicken or egg question.

The answer is "neither".

My mom was an English teacher and it is neither nor or either or.

 

[Divine Wind]

In magical scientific circles it is usually the chicken or egg question.

The answer is "neither".

My mom was an English teacher and it is neither nor or either or.

It ain't the chicken nor the egg.

 

[xband]

It is either a closed or open universe and closed implies God did it.

Why?

A closed universe implies a Creator because an open universe is infinity which cannot be described by man.

 

[Divine Wind]

A closed universe implies a Creator because an open universe is infinity which cannot be described by man.

Again, I fail to see your logic.

 

[Boss]

A closed universe implies a Creator because an open universe is infinity which cannot be described by man.

It can be described, it's simply not physical... it's a spiritual concept. Eternity, everlasting and infinity are not mathematical. They pose a nightmare for the physicist. The only definitions of these terms are philosophical.

 

[xband]

I use the Third Law of Thermodynamics to explain everything; entropy. Order always results in disorder but there are short lived pockets of order in disorder.

 

[Boss]

I think that it's interesting to explore the why of the universe and potentially if someone actually made it. But if someone made it, then that person has to have come from someone/somewhere.

God isn't a "someone". Not a "he" nor a "her". God is God. Not a "being", but an eternal power that is beyond this Universe yet we are all part of it.

This is a difficult concept for them. Most God deniers simply can't comprehend any other type of existence than physical. If it isn't physical, it isn't real. I've answered this question thousands of times... probably dozens of times for Mudda... they just keep on asking it because they can't comprehend Spiritual existence.

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not fucking Bossy. lol.

Bossy has zero proof for his claims, I thought I'd let them know that in advance.

Sure I do. Logic. The physical universe cannot have created itself. It's a paradox in physics... nothing can create itself because it would have to already exist. So physics must logically be perpetually eternal which makes it spiritual or it has to be created by something outside of physical nature.

Cmon man, don't start with your nonsense. You connect things as fact when you're simply making it all up.

Well let's see what I've made up...

40-something cosmological constants that math says do not have to be precision tuned in a random universe but we find they are incredibly fine tuned. Not made up.

Paradox of physics. A physical thing is incapable of creating itself. Physical nature could not have created itself. Not made up.

Eternal, everlasting and infinite are not physical concepts and cannot be defined with mathematical measurement. They are a nightmare to the physicist. Not made up.

Hmmmm... maybe you can give me a hint at what you think I've made up?

Okay, I know what I can do... Let me TRY to make something up!

At the limits of our ability to physically examine our universe with physical science, we continue to discover the same result... our principles of physics which govern every aspect we understand in science, cease to function as we understand them. This has been encountered with black holes at the event horizon, where Einstein's theories spiral wildly out of control. It is encountered again when studying the atom at the subatomic level. Electrons pop in and out of existence, occupy two spaces at the same time or no place at any time, entangled particles passing information faster than light speed.... that kind of thing.

Shit... Sorry, as ridiculously crazy as all of that sounds, it's also not made up.

 

[edthecynic]

God created the world out of a situation of a totally nonexistance.

From nothing, nothing comes.

 

[edthecynic]

I use the Third Law of Thermodynamics to explain everything; entropy. Order always results in disorder but there are short lived pockets of order in disorder.

You mean the Second Law of Thermodynamics. The Third Law is there is no temperature at which all motion stops.

Except that is not what the Second LoT says. It says "in a closed thermodynamic system entropy NEVER DECREASES. "Never decreases" does not mean "ALWAYS results in disorder." "Never decreases" expressed mathematically means "greater than OR EQUAL TO zero. "Always results in disorder" means "always greater than zero." Therefore the SLoT allows entropy to equal zero. When entropy is zero it is NOT resulting in disorder.

 

[edthecynic]

Paradox of physics. A physical thing is incapable of creating itself. Physical nature could not have created itself. Not made up.

Eternal, everlasting and infinite are not physical concepts and cannot be defined with mathematical measurement. They are a nightmare to the physicist. Not made up.

Energy exists, it can be measured. Energy is physical. Energy cannot be created nor destroyed.

Energy sure seems eternal and everlasting!

 

[edthecynic]

What's by the way a very interesting idea, because our universe seems to be a flat universe wherein the geometry of Euclid is valid: So no one is able to know wether it is "closed" or "open".

if we could travel through the universe, then we would always see an expanding universe in all directions. A traveler through the universe would always be in the middle - every point of the universe is always in the middle of the universe

But wouldn't that imply some kind of looped universe rather than a flat one?

An expanding flat universe would imply an edge of expansion.

 

[Sbiker]

It's pretty simple. In the beginning was the Word.

"In the beginning was the word" - Anton Zeilinger, 01/21/2015.

"Im Anfang war das Wort. Und wer hätte geahnt, dass diese Aussage in den modernen Überlegungen der Physik jetzt eine ganz andere Bedeutung bekommen könnte. Es gibt immer mehr Leute in der Quantenphysik, die der Meinung sind, das Grundkonzept über das wir sprechen, ist die Information. Die Information als Möglichkeit des Gewinns von Wissen. Wenn das das fundamentale Konzept unserer Weltbeschreibung ist, dann ist das nicht weit weg von ‚Im Anfang war das Wort‘“.

source: Diözese Linz

... Nobody gives a fuck about the jews, we're talking about the bible. 6 days means 6 fucking days.

Whatever could be the opposit of "Nobody gives a fuck about the Jews." without to attack any Jew: that's exactly my choice, Nazi, US-¿Anti?-American one. God made the world in six days. Nothing to discuss about with Nazis.

So now I have to give a fuck about Jews to not be a nazi?
I don't give a fuck about you either.

I doubt about. Nazis never let other people live in peace. If you are wrong then you will explode like Little Boy and Fat Man on no other reason than your own wrongness.

In this case, what's difference between nazis and democrats? Lasts are never let to North Corea live in peace too...

Hmm ... One difference is it for example that german Nazis made with the skin of human beings lampshades for living room lamps. A short time later the president John F. Kennedy started to send the USA to the moon. But I did not know that they forgot some people there. Shall we ask the Russians to be so nice to bring you back from the moon?

Why do I need to keep myself out from Earth surface to tell truth? Thanks, I'm feel good at the moon regolite, but what about North Corea?

 

[Divine Wind]

From nothing, nothing comes.

Agreed. So where did the Universe come from?

 

[Sbiker]

From nothing, nothing comes.

Agreed. So where did the Universe come from?

Deep from our minds? Do you know another trusted source of Universe?

 

[edthecynic]

From nothing, nothing comes.

Agreed. So where did the Universe come from?

The universe IS energy which can neither be created nor destroyed.

 

[Lutroo]

From nothing, nothing comes.

Agreed. So where did the Universe come from?

Deep from our minds? Do you know another trusted source of Universe?

Correction. There is no know process that can create or destroy energy. Doesn't mean it can't be done. I believe it can. Otherwise energy would have to be eternal, which violates the laws of physics.