how much warming from adding carbon dioxide to the atmosphere is what we

[Old Rocks]

These guys post links to people like Anthony Watts, an undegreed ex-TV weatherman, and expect those links to be accepted as equally credible to the links to articles from peer reviewed scientific journals.

Still remains, no Scientific Societies anywhere on earth deny AGW. Not even in Outer Slobovia. No National Academy of Science denies AGW. Not even that of Saudi Arabia. And no major university in the world has a policy statement that denies AGW.

All we have are fruitloops and big energy doing the denial.

 

[Foxfyre]

What you want to be true is insignificant to the universe. Science is dealing with the workings of the universe. The facts behind AGW may well be disturbing to you, but that has no impact on how the universe works.

What you are choosing is to not be part of what must be done. Your choice. We usually label such choices as irresponsible.

And I label irresponsible people who cut and paste opinion even as they demonstrate they don't understand what they are cutting and pasting. Most especially when they presume the righteous arrogance to assign words, thought, actions to other people that they have to manufacture because they can't support them with anything somebody else said. And most especially when they use non sequitur to do it.

Here's the thing. What I post is what I know because I've invested the time to learn from credible sources. If you bothered to check and learn from credible sources you could know it too, I presume. You don't. You repeat what big oil wants you to believe in order for them to follow business's one rule. Make more money regardless of the cost to others.

That's all your choice. People who take action on solving the problem are used to people like you and simply regard them as irrelevent to the solution.

Lots of people have trouble distinguishing between what they know to be true and what they wish was true. Don't take it personally, you among massive company.

As are you among the AGW religionsists who are certain they know everything and are certan that the skeptics at any level have done absolutely no homework, no study, no research, and have not come to their own informed opinions via educating themselves. You would offend me and possibly others less if you assumed less, were just a bit less smug and self righteous, and observed and read more carefully.

 

[deltex1]

I have done my part...have not farted for the last 5 years.

 

[PMZ]

And I label irresponsible people who cut and paste opinion even as they demonstrate they don't understand what they are cutting and pasting. Most especially when they presume the righteous arrogance to assign words, thought, actions to other people that they have to manufacture because they can't support them with anything somebody else said. And most especially when they use non sequitur to do it.

Here's the thing. What I post is what I know because I've invested the time to learn from credible sources. If you bothered to check and learn from credible sources you could know it too, I presume. You don't. You repeat what big oil wants you to believe in order for them to follow business's one rule. Make more money regardless of the cost to others.

That's all your choice. People who take action on solving the problem are used to people like you and simply regard them as irrelevent to the solution.

Lots of people have trouble distinguishing between what they know to be true and what they wish was true. Don't take it personally, you among massive company.

As are you among the AGW religionsists who are certain they know everything and are certan that the skeptics at any level have done absolutely no homework, no study, no research, and have not come to their own informed opinions via educating themselves. You would offend me and possibly others less if you assumed less, were just a bit less smug and self righteous, and observed and read more carefully.

It is not untypical for scientists to value truth and question opinion. That's why we became scientists. That's what we do.

Just as I am certain that creationists and flat earthers are wrong, I am certain that physics knows many things that you don't. There is just no credible scientific support for believing that AGW is not real. There is just no economic support that denying it leads to the most expensive alternative.

Again nothing personal. There's much that I don't know and a few things that I do know. I presume that it's the same with you.

There was a time when deniers were an obstacle to progress but we're beyond that now for the most part.

 

[gslack]

People who refuse to learn, remain ignorant. Their choice. That renders them irrelevant.

While they are wandering around deciding what other ignorant people to follow, people who know act accordingly.

The largest project mankind has ever taken on, the move to sustainable energy, has begun.

That's where all new investment is going.

For the transportation industry, what has always been hypothesized as the force which would even move the ignorant, has come true. Expensive gasoline. If you love your fossil fuels, fine. Buy them. Smarter people are spending their money on more important things.

Several times a year Mother Nature destroys a few thousand homes, takes a few hundred lives, makes homeless a few thousand people, and the ignorant blame bad luck.

Pretty soon, as we find that we've built our farms where there's no longer water, and our cities where there's no longer land, the big bills will come due and the ignorant will blame politicians.

Ignorance is the most expensive human limitation.

Yet those who preach it get fabulously wealthy.

Go figure.

LOL, dude you just made some pretty ignorant claims and now you talk about people being willfully ignorant...

You just made some crazy claim that CO2 is a base element. Gimme a break man..

 

[gslack]

An experiment that you can do at home.

Hold your hand about one foot from an incandescent light bulb, a great radiator. Observe the effects. Your hand will warm up to whatever temperature is necessary to radiate exactly as much energy back into the room as it is receiving from the bulb.

Move it a little closer. More energy received by your hand from the bulb. Energy imbalance again. It has to find a new higher temperature to re-establish equilibrium.

So, the impact of higher concentrations of greenhouse gasses in our atmosphere could be demonstrated by moving the earth closer to the sun.

Anybody's want to try that?

LOL, where to start....

"Your hand will warm up to whatever temperature is necessary to radiate exactly as much energy back into the room as it is receiving from the bulb. "

What kind of circle think gave that idea? Seriously man, its about as unscientific a claim as i have seen. ALmost as silly as your previous "CO2 back to the earth and back to the atmosphere nonsense...

No dude, you hand will warm to whatever temperature the energy coming from the bulb cause, minus the cost of the transfer..There is no equilibrium until your hand reaches the same temperature as the bulb.. Jesus man, do you just make this crap up or what?

 

[PMZ]

People who refuse to learn, remain ignorant. Their choice. That renders them irrelevant.

While they are wandering around deciding what other ignorant people to follow, people who know act accordingly.

The largest project mankind has ever taken on, the move to sustainable energy, has begun.

That's where all new investment is going.

For the transportation industry, what has always been hypothesized as the force which would even move the ignorant, has come true. Expensive gasoline. If you love your fossil fuels, fine. Buy them. Smarter people are spending their money on more important things.

Several times a year Mother Nature destroys a few thousand homes, takes a few hundred lives, makes homeless a few thousand people, and the ignorant blame bad luck.

Pretty soon, as we find that we've built our farms where there's no longer water, and our cities where there's no longer land, the big bills will come due and the ignorant will blame politicians.

Ignorance is the most expensive human limitation.

Yet those who preach it get fabulously wealthy.

Go figure.

LOL, dude you just made some pretty ignorant claims and now you talk about people being willfully ignorant...

You just made some crazy claim that CO2 is a base element. Gimme a break man..

You'll have to point out where I said that CO2 is a "base element". I've never even heard of a "base element". What are the other elements that aren't "base" called?

 

[PMZ]

An experiment that you can do at home.

Hold your hand about one foot from an incandescent light bulb, a great radiator. Observe the effects. Your hand will warm up to whatever temperature is necessary to radiate exactly as much energy back into the room as it is receiving from the bulb.

Move it a little closer. More energy received by your hand from the bulb. Energy imbalance again. It has to find a new higher temperature to re-establish equilibrium.

So, the impact of higher concentrations of greenhouse gasses in our atmosphere could be demonstrated by moving the earth closer to the sun.

Anybody's want to try that?

LOL, where to start....

"Your hand will warm up to whatever temperature is necessary to radiate exactly as much energy back into the room as it is receiving from the bulb. "

What kind of circle think gave that idea? Seriously man, its about as unscientific a claim as i have seen. ALmost as silly as your previous "CO2 back to the earth and back to the atmosphere nonsense...

No dude, you hand will warm to whatever temperature the energy coming from the bulb cause, minus the cost of the transfer..There is no equilibrium until your hand reaches the same temperature as the bulb.. Jesus man, do you just make this crap up or what?

Don't know much about radiation I see.

You claim that holding your hand near a light bulb will result it it getting continuously hotter until it's the same temperature as the filament. Does that mean that earth has been getting warmer and warmer and will eventually be the same temperature as the sun? Now that's global warming!

It's very easy to imagine now how easily you can be fooled.

 

[Old Rocks]

There are a few posters here whose ignorance is truly astounding. Gslack is one of them. You will meet many more that make you wonder how they operate a keyboard.

 

[Saigon]

And there is a real kicker waiting in the wings. Should the Arctic Clathrates begin to outgas in a major way, we are just along for the ride. This group of scientists think that is a certainty;

Arctic Methane Emergency Group - AMEG - Arctic Sea Ice - Methane Release - Planetary Emergency

Don't know how close to right they are, but only 13 years ago, scientists that predicted the total melt of the arctic ice for part of the summer by 2100 were called 'alarmist'. Now it looks as if that may happen by 2020.

Here ya go Old Rocks. WattsUpWithThat has put together ALL the charts and graphs re arctic and antartic sea ice all in one place. But if you study them with an open mind, they really are disturbing for the dedicated pro-AGW religionist who bases his fears on sea ice:
Sea Ice Page | Watts Up With That?

And I will remind everybody that we have had satellite imagery for less than 34 years. For anybody to seriously think that 34 years provides even a hint of conclusive evidence of the behavior of an ice pack that spans millions of years. . . well. . . .anybody want to buy a bridge?

I can totally understand that people look at some of these partisan sites and can one very, very skewed impression of reality.

This is a good example of how people twist facts:

Have we had satellite data for only 34 years?

Dedicated satellites for this purpose were only launched in 1978, that is true, but prior to that images were produced by NASA's Nimbus spacecraft, which were launched in 1964.

Did your source tell you that?

No, it didn't. It offered you a bridge, and you bought it.

Prior to that we have ice charts dating back to 1930, temperature records dating back to the 1880's - so observational data now going back 130 years, anyway.

This links gives information dating back 5,000 years: http://nsidc.org/icelights/2011/01/31/arctic-sea-ice-before-satellites/

 

[Saigon]

PMZ -

I would agree with Old Rocks that it is best to put 2 or 3 of the completely illiterate spammers on Ignore Mode, and that allows the rest of us to continue some kind of on-topic discussion.

 

[gslack]

People who refuse to learn, remain ignorant. Their choice. That renders them irrelevant.

While they are wandering around deciding what other ignorant people to follow, people who know act accordingly.

The largest project mankind has ever taken on, the move to sustainable energy, has begun.

That's where all new investment is going.

For the transportation industry, what has always been hypothesized as the force which would even move the ignorant, has come true. Expensive gasoline. If you love your fossil fuels, fine. Buy them. Smarter people are spending their money on more important things.

Several times a year Mother Nature destroys a few thousand homes, takes a few hundred lives, makes homeless a few thousand people, and the ignorant blame bad luck.

Pretty soon, as we find that we've built our farms where there's no longer water, and our cities where there's no longer land, the big bills will come due and the ignorant will blame politicians.

Ignorance is the most expensive human limitation.

Yet those who preach it get fabulously wealthy.

Go figure.

LOL, dude you just made some pretty ignorant claims and now you talk about people being willfully ignorant...

You just made some crazy claim that CO2 is a base element. Gimme a break man..

You'll have to point out where I said that CO2 is a "base element". I've never even heard of a "base element". What are the other elements that aren't "base" called?

Your silly claim...

http://www.usmessageboard.com/7271635-post333.html

The sentient AGW point is that the burning of fossil fuels is recreating what existed before the carbon dioxide that they were created from, was sequestered in them, in the ground.

We know what happened the previous time that all of that carbon dioxide was in the atmosphere rather than locked up underground.

Why would anyone expect this time to be any different?

Now in order for the CO2 to as you put it "recreating what existed before the carbon dioxide that they were created from, was sequestered in them, in the ground." we have to assume you meant that CO2 was an element and cannot be broken down..

Through that cycle Co2 is broken down into more base elements and then through various process can be made into CO2 again in certain conditions.

Further, you claimed that we (life) was created from CO2, which we weren't, we are carbon based, not CO2 based...

Please, spare me the wacky theories and esoteric nonsense..

 

[gslack]

An experiment that you can do at home.

Hold your hand about one foot from an incandescent light bulb, a great radiator. Observe the effects. Your hand will warm up to whatever temperature is necessary to radiate exactly as much energy back into the room as it is receiving from the bulb.

Move it a little closer. More energy received by your hand from the bulb. Energy imbalance again. It has to find a new higher temperature to re-establish equilibrium.

So, the impact of higher concentrations of greenhouse gasses in our atmosphere could be demonstrated by moving the earth closer to the sun.

Anybody's want to try that?

LOL, where to start....

"Your hand will warm up to whatever temperature is necessary to radiate exactly as much energy back into the room as it is receiving from the bulb. "

What kind of circle think gave that idea? Seriously man, its about as unscientific a claim as i have seen. ALmost as silly as your previous "CO2 back to the earth and back to the atmosphere nonsense...

No dude, you hand will warm to whatever temperature the energy coming from the bulb cause, minus the cost of the transfer..There is no equilibrium until your hand reaches the same temperature as the bulb.. Jesus man, do you just make this crap up or what?

Don't know much about radiation I see.

You claim that holding your hand near a light bulb will result it it getting continuously hotter until it's the same temperature as the filament. Does that mean that earth has been getting warmer and warmer and will eventually be the same temperature as the sun? Now that's global warming!

It's very easy to imagine now how easily you can be fooled.

NOOOOOOO!!!!!

That was your claim silly man... I explained what would have to happen to reach equilibrium which YOU CLAIMED!!

Your words...

Hold your hand about one foot from an incandescent light bulb, a great radiator. Observe the effects. Your hand will warm up to whatever temperature is necessary to radiate exactly as much energy back into the room as it is receiving from the bulb.

Move it a little closer. More energy received by your hand from the bulb. Energy imbalance again. It has to find a new higher temperature to re-establish equilibrium.

So, the impact of higher concentrations of greenhouse gasses in our atmosphere could be demonstrated by moving the earth closer to the sun.

Anybody's want to try that?

You just claimed it right there.. See it? YOUR CLAIM SILLY MAN!!

Now dude your nonsense is getting tiresome now. You spout off half-backed, and half-witted nonsense using some partial knowledge and frankly its just ignorant now...

 

[gslack]

People who refuse to learn, remain ignorant. Their choice. That renders them irrelevant.

While they are wandering around deciding what other ignorant people to follow, people who know act accordingly.

The largest project mankind has ever taken on, the move to sustainable energy, has begun.

That's where all new investment is going.

For the transportation industry, what has always been hypothesized as the force which would even move the ignorant, has come true. Expensive gasoline. If you love your fossil fuels, fine. Buy them. Smarter people are spending their money on more important things.

Several times a year Mother Nature destroys a few thousand homes, takes a few hundred lives, makes homeless a few thousand people, and the ignorant blame bad luck.

Pretty soon, as we find that we've built our farms where there's no longer water, and our cities where there's no longer land, the big bills will come due and the ignorant will blame politicians.

Ignorance is the most expensive human limitation.

Yet those who preach it get fabulously wealthy.

Go figure.

LOL, dude you just made some pretty ignorant claims and now you talk about people being willfully ignorant...

You just made some crazy claim that CO2 is a base element. Gimme a break man..

You'll have to point out where I said that CO2 is a "base element". I've never even heard of a "base element". What are the other elements that aren't "base" called?

its a periodic table of elements...Let me know if you see CO2 on it.. You won't...

Now when you have a compound and you break it down, you break it down into it's base elements. Such as those above on the scale... Nice try at BS stupid...

BTW, fossil fuels weren't made in the Carboniferous period, the belief is that period is what created current fossil fuels. Meaning the life from that period is believed to have made up fossil fuels. Meaning from then till now, the decomposition of life from that period over the periods from then till now, are what makes up most of our fossil fuels..

Dude are you high? or are just deliberately being obtuse?

 

[Saigon]

Gslack -

The only person here talking about 'base elements' is you.

No one else mentions them, no one else refers to them.

 

[PMZ]

PMZ -

I would agree with Old Rocks that it is best to put 2 or 3 of the completely illiterate spammers on Ignore Mode, and that allows the rest of us to continue some kind of on-topic discussion.

One of the sources of our current political troubles is that ignorant people like Rush are telling ignorant people like his audiance that they are no longer ignorant and they should stand up and scream that what they want to be true, is.

It's like, in his ignorance, facts are all political opinions, and by taking any position, that position becomes fact based. I guess that there is no denying that selling that snake oil has made someone with nearly zero knowledge in any field, who has never taken responsibility for anything, wealthy beyond measure, but then obtaining wealth without creating wealth has become the hallmark of our generation.

Wierd and very frustrating to folks who obtained knowledge, and created wealth, the old fashioned way. They earned it.

Your advice on sorting out the contributers from the hangers on here is well taken.

 

[Foxfyre]

Well at least most of us know that fossil fuels aren't made out of CO2 which is what PMZ, the 'scientist' claimed in an earlier post.

The sentient AGW point is that the burning of fossil fuels is recreating what existed before the carbon dioxide that they were created from, was sequestered in them, in the ground.

We know what happened the previous time that all of that carbon dioxide was in the atmosphere rather than locked up underground.

Why would anyone expect this time to be any different?

 

[PMZ]

Well at least most of us know that fossil fuels aren't made out of CO2 which is what PMZ, the 'scientist' claimed in an earlier post.

The sentient AGW point is that the burning of fossil fuels is recreating what existed before the carbon dioxide that they were created from, was sequestered in them, in the ground.

We know what happened the previous time that all of that carbon dioxide was in the atmosphere rather than locked up underground.

Why would anyone expect this time to be any different?

"Well at least most of us know that fossil fuels aren't made out of CO2 which is what PMZ, the 'scientist' claimed in an earlier post. "

Fossil fuels are made mostly of carbon and hydrogen. Hydrocarbons we call them. Or if we eat them, carbohydrates.

Hydrogen generally from water.

Carbon from organic compounds like expired life forms.

Before they expired, these life forms grew themselves from what they took in. For plants, mostly carbon dioxide. For animals, mostly plants, or plant eating animals.

Carbon based life forms.

Ain't science grand?

 

[Foxfyre]

Well at least most of us know that fossil fuels aren't made out of CO2 which is what PMZ, the 'scientist' claimed in an earlier post.

The sentient AGW point is that the burning of fossil fuels is recreating what existed before the carbon dioxide that they were created from, was sequestered in them, in the ground.

We know what happened the previous time that all of that carbon dioxide was in the atmosphere rather than locked up underground.

Why would anyone expect this time to be any different?

"Well at least most of us know that fossil fuels aren't made out of CO2 which is what PMZ, the 'scientist' claimed in an earlier post. "

Fossil fuels are made mostly of carbon and hydrogen. Hydrocarbons we call them. Or if we eat them, carbohydrates.

Hydrogen generally from water.

Carbon from organic compounds like expired life forms.

Before they expired, these life forms grew themselves from what they took in. For plants, mostly carbon dioxide. For animals, mostly plants, or plant eating animals.

Carbon based life forms.

Ain't science grand?

Um, CO2 doesn't have any hydrogen in it either. But my point was that your statement that fossil fuels are made from CO2 really doesn't sound like something a scientist would say. Or anybody who took highschool chemistry would say for that matter. And you have claimed to be a scientist in your 'we scientists' line in another post.

 

[Saigon]

Foxfyre -

I don't think you are understanding PMZs point.

What happens when we burn fossil fuels? What gas is released?