How to Get American Employment Back Up; Economists wont tell you this

[eagle1462010]

If we had TRUE FREE TRADE with China........Then there should be no VAT TAXES on our imports............which is basically a TARIFF without calling it a tariff..............and the MFN rates by the WTO are triple ours.

And people call this shit Free Trade..............

 

[eagle1462010]

Calculating Taxes and Duties for Import to China - China Briefing News

To further elaborate the calculation of import taxes, we’ll use the example of a Chinese company deciding to purchase machinery from a European company which has concluded a contract using FOB price. FOB price means the Chinese buyer would arrange the freight, and the related shipping cost and insurance premium would be borne by the Chinese buyer. The European company only needs to load the machinery on the board of the ship nominated by the Chinese buyer and clear the goods at the customs for export.

Hypothetically, the expenses that need to be considered are as follows:

• Cost of the machinery: US$1,000,000
• Freight: US$30,000
• Insurance premium: US$4,000
• Import tariff rate: 10%
• Import VAT rate for machinery: 17%
• Port handling: US$3,000
• VAT rate for port handling service: 6%

Import duty and VAT:
DPV = 1,000,000 + 30,000 + 4,000 = US$1,034,000
Import duty = 1,034,000 * 10% = US$103,400
CAP = 1,034,000 * (1+10%) = US$1,137,400
VAT = 1,137,400 * 17% = US$193,358
Port handling VAT = 3,000 * 6% = US$180

Under FOB, the import VAT (17 percent) and VAT levied on the service for port handling (6 percent) would both be borne by the Chinese buyer. The only possible way to reduce the import VAT liability for the imported goods may be to negotiate a lower transportation cost and insurance premium with the nominated freight forwarder and insurance company so as to reduce the CAP value and therefore import VAT.

- See more at: Calculating Taxes and Duties for Import to China - China Briefing News

 

[zeke]

Eagle, good info and nice job presenting it.

Unfortunately you are presenting this information to some people who actually are cheering for the demise of the American tradition of being the manufacturing envy of the world. These people hate those middle class jobs.

People like the Rabbit are so dedicated to the idea the the CEO's of American corporations are really looking out for them, that they can't understand what is happening. Well that and they make so little money that they DEPEND on buying cheap Chinese junk. It's the only "new" merchandise that they can afford.

 

[eagle1462010]

Eagle, good info and nice job presenting it.

Unfortunately you are presenting this information to some people who actually are cheering for the demise of the American tradition of being the manufacturing envy of the world. These people hate those middle class jobs.

People like the Rabbit are so dedicated to the idea the the CEO's of American corporations are really looking out for them, that they can't understand what is happening. Well that and they make so little money that they DEPEND on buying cheap Chinese junk. It's the only "new" merchandise that they can afford.

I normally agree with them on most issues, but not this one.

Free trade is only Free with all factors involved making the playing field level regarding all factors...........for fairness this link is provided.

http://usitc.gov/publications/docs/tata/hts/bychapter/1401C02.pdf

Duty schedule of import goods to the United States by product........too dang long, but the rates aren't even close to the VAT taxes and CT taxes imposed on goods sold in China............

Which are basically TARIFFS and PROTECTIONISM by CHINA that aren't accounted for under the agreements with the WTO.............giving China the advantage on the import and export costs of goods.................

We could raise duties on China by saying FINE............We will remain at 3.4 DUTY RATES on your goods coming into our country..............but we will NOW CHARGE YOU A VAT TAX AND CT TAX as China does to our products.............

Then when China bitches about it to the WTO............we will state that it ISN'T A TARIFF AT ALL but a CONSUMPTION TAX in the same way China is doing to us right now..........................

In effect saying lower your VAT TAXES to U.S. GOODS...........apply the same rates of duty where our rates are 1/3rd of the rates applied by China and then we'll CALL IT FREE TRADE.............

We allow China to tax our chit at MUCH GREATER LEVELS via the back door ways............and do nothing in return in RESPONSE............

 

[eagle1462010]

Now...................I'd like the experts here...........since I don't know anything at all about economics.............and I am a novice...........to tell me how America gains by allowing China to tax the shit out of our goods even under the WTO and MFN status.................while not doing the same to them by imposing the same upon our goods...............

aka Okay China............we like your cheap products............so now get rid of all consumption taxes on our food products and let us put your FARMERS out of a job like you do our industrial sector................

We'll keep buying your micro chips..........But now you are going to buy our potato chips.

 

[zeke]

We allow China to tax our chit at MUCH GREATER LEVELS via the back door ways............and do nothing in return in RESPONSE............

There may be a two fold reason for that.

They (China) are our "banker" and we don't want to piss off our banker.

Lots of our capitalists are making a killing off cheap Chinese labor and our politicians do not want to upset their corporate benefactors.

It's a plutocrat thing.

 

[eagle1462010]

Korean Agreement Is a Job Killer - Phyllis Schlafly - Page full

This dangerous bill is the 1,413-page Korean-U.S. Free Trade Agreement (KORUS FTA), which is scheduled to come up soon in Congress. It's hard to see how anyone who cares about America's economic future could allow this job killer to become law, and any member of Congress who votes for it doesn't deserve to be re-elected next year.

We are told KORUS will create more exports, but the principal exports will be American jobs. The Economic Policy Institute estimates that KORUS will cost us 159,000 jobs. The U.S. International Trade Commission also admits that KORUS will cause significant job losses. Those job losses will extend from low-end industries to electronic equipment manufacturing, where the victims will be Americans who were making an average wage of $30 an hour in 2008.

President Barack Obama, with the help of some Republicans who take their orders from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, is trying to pass a bill that will kill U.S. jobs, send more jobs overseas and make more Americans dependent on government handouts. That's the Frances Fox Piven strategy Obama learned at a Socialist Party conference in New York while he was attending Columbia University.

This dangerous bill is the 1,413-page Korean-U.S. Free Trade Agreement (KORUS FTA), which is scheduled to come up soon in Congress. It's hard to see how anyone who cares about America's economic future could allow this job killer to become law, and any member of Congress who votes for it doesn't deserve to be re-elected next year.

We are told KORUS will create more exports, but the principal exports will be American jobs. The Economic Policy Institute estimates that KORUS will cost us 159,000 jobs. The U.S. International Trade Commission also admits that KORUS will cause significant job losses. Those job losses will extend from low-end industries to electronic equipment manufacturing, where the victims will be Americans who were making an average wage of $30 an hour in 2008.

Some Members of Congress are trying to camouflage what they are doing by joining KORUS at the hip with a government job-training program. That's an admission that KORUS will cost us jobs.

Obama claims that KORUS will create 70,000 low-paying in-sourced jobs (of Americans working for foreign employers). But even if that is true, which is doubtful, that's less than half the well-paying jobs the U.S. will lose.

KORUS advocates a claim it will allow the U.S. to export 75,000 cars a year to South Korea. Compare that puny figure with the fact that Americans are buying over a million South Korean cars this year.

Among the many ways that South Korea puts up barriers against U.S. products is to subject any Korean brave enough to buy an American car to a discriminatory tax audit.

KORUS allows Korean products imported into the U.S. to have 65 percent non-South-Korean content. Nobody will know how much of that 65 percent will be made by slave labor in North Korea or China.

KORUS will give Korean corporations the right to challenge any U.S. law they think might limit their market access or profitability, including our prevailing wage laws. These trade agreements generally give foreigners the right to define free trade, which they do in ways that always disadvantage the U.S.

KORUS will make it impossible for us to prevent foreigners from taking over entire U.S. industries, which they can buy with the U.S. dollars they accumulate from our balance of trade deficit. KORUS will effectively nullify U.S. laws and regulations that restrict economic monopolies.

KORUS will enmesh us in a legal labyrinth called "investor-state arbitration." That means subjecting our laws to review by foreign bureaucrats anytime we are accused of interfering with free trade.

The power "to regulate commerce with foreign nations" is one of the most important powers given to Congress by the U.S. Constitution. It is foolish and unconstitutional to turn any part of that power over to any tribunal of foreigners.

U.S. regulation of food imports is already under attack in the World Trade Organization, and KORUS will give Korea the right to limit our ability to regulate the quality of food imports. We will lose our ability to protect ourselves from contaminated and toxic foods.

Free trade has always been a one-way street, which is why the U.S. has built up an enormous trade deficit. The principal factor in creating this unfair trading system is that foreigners simply replace their tariffs with a Value Added Tax, and KORUS does nothing to remedy or reduce this gross unfairness.

 

[zeke]

The question I have eagle is WHO is asking Congress to write these bills? Congresspeople don't generally try and pass legislation like this unless they have been asked to do it. SO who is doing the "asking" with a bunch of campaign dollars attached to the "request"?

 

[Iceweasel]

eagle, crying about the good old union days isn't going to change anything. We are in a global marketplace. Businesses adapt or die. and very many American companies are dead for that reason.

 

[eagle1462010]

The question I have eagle is WHO is asking Congress to write these bills? Congresspeople don't generally try and pass legislation like this unless they have been asked to do it. SO who is doing the "asking" with a bunch of campaign dollars attached to the "request"?

We have the best politicians money can buy on both sides of the isle...............People on this thread have already stated we'd lose the jobs anyway so just deal with it.......................

Yet our trade policies are now decided by a World Governing body instead of case by case agreements made before these orgs were created..........

In regards to China...........if we had direct trade agreements instead of blanket agreements with the WTO we'd say your VAT IS A TARIFF irregardless that under international law it is NOT A TARIFF BY DEFINITION...........

In reality the VAT TAXES imposed on our exports ARE TARIFFS..........imposed on the sale of our goods to those countries which are a form of Protectionism imposed on the United States by countries like China.

That is NOT FREE TRADE..............by any means when they impose triple the duties and a 17% tax on our goods coming into their country. That is bad policy and in the past we REGULATED the AMOUNTS allowed to be sold here in Retaliation...................not so now...............

We guarantee our companies can't compete and guarantee the foreign companies have the competitive advantage to become the producers of the world and recently we lost the number 1 spot to China.

 

[eagle1462010]

eagle, crying about the good old union days isn't going to change anything. We are in a global marketplace. Businesses adapt or die. and very many American companies are dead for that reason.

I don't support the Union side of this argument.....................I support Fair versus Free trade.................

and I will ask again HOW IS IT FREE TRADE when they IMPOSE HIGH VAT TAXES ON OUR GOODS............

We could toast their asses in the agri sector if it wasn't for the VAT...................Making them lose jobs instead of us................

Again.............how is allowing them to Tax us via the backdoor good for our country...........how is it good to allow them to export shrimp into this country through shrimp farms and put our shrimpers out of business.

Again..............if it's TRUE FREE TRADE with us and China.............then China should be forced to get rid of the VAT taxes on our exports.............and the CT taxes on our goods as well..................

Then the playing field is equal. It is not now................I'm for keeping jobs here and not in China..............If they beat us on a level playing field that is different........but that playing field is NOT LEVEL....................Eliminate the VAT taxes on our goods OR FACE FEES on their goods in retaliation.

 

[eagle1462010]

BTW ice...............Those major loses to Unions are being felt hard in the North............and the South has taken many of those industries because the wages down here are more reasonable...................

In Alabama we are now producing cars via Mercedes, Toyota and others that have created good paying jobs for our people..........We are getting them via tax incentives and lower pay scales than up North which eventually killed themselves.............

That is not the same as FOREIGN taxes on U.S. manufactured goods via the back door.

 

[zeke]

Eagle, IF you were part of the ultra wealthy and your wealth was generated by reducing the labor cost for the corporation you run, would you do anything different than what we are seeing now?

We have a declining standard of living for many million of Americans. We also have a concentration of wealth in America like we haven't seen before. And we have no political will to change that situation.

So, are you optimistic that something will be done about the problems you have identified? Some manufactures have brought business back to the USA. Regardless, the declining standard of living will continue because most of those good paying manufacturing jobs are gone for good.

But we sure did raise the standard of living for some Chinese.

 

[eagle1462010]

The VAT Menace to free trade

The impact of the Value Added Tax, or VAT, on international trade is a complicated aspect of global commerce that is generally only comprehended by experts. Yet, the impact of the VAT may be the single most important variable in explaining U.S. balance of trade deficits that are spiraling out of control – to the detriment of both U.S. manufacturing and the continuing validity of the U.S. dollar itself.



The 2006 U.S. trade deficit is estimated to exceed $760 billion, while last year China also came to hold an historically high $1 trillion in foreign exchange reserves, $700 billion of which was held in U.S. dollar assets.



Simply put, the average United States citizen can no longer afford not to understand the VAT, especially now, in an era where the World Trade Organization dominates our international trade agenda and where NAFTA has morphed into NAFTA-plus, as demonstrated by the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America, which President Bush declared with Mexico and Canada at the Waco, Texas, summit of March 23, 2005.


aka There isn't Free Trade.......

 

[Iceweasel]

BTW ice...............Those major loses to Unions are being felt hard in the North............and the South has taken many of those industries because the wages down here are more reasonable...................

In Alabama we are now producing cars via Mercedes, Toyota and others that have created good paying jobs for our people..........We are getting them via tax incentives and lower pay scales than up North which eventually killed themselves.............

That is not the same as FOREIGN taxes on U.S. manufactured goods via the back door.

I'm not going to look into the China deal, I just know tariffs bring about retaliation so the consumer will take the hit. We owe China boatloads of borrowed money too, maybe that's part of the deal?

 

[eagle1462010]

Eagle, IF you were part of the ultra wealthy and your wealth was generated by reducing the labor cost for the corporation you run, would you do anything different than what we are seeing now?

We have a declining standard of living for many million of Americans. We also have a concentration of wealth in America like we haven't seen before. And we have no political will to change that situation.

So, are you optimistic that something will be done about the problems you have identified? Some manufactures have brought business back to the USA. Regardless, the declining standard of living will continue because most of those good paying manufacturing jobs are gone for good.

But we sure did raise the standard of living for some Chinese.

Under the WTO and the other Free trade agreements investors with the money are going to move and continue to move for the bottom dollar...............They have no choice but to move or automate the manufacturing business to compete on a global Market...........

They didn't get wealthy being stupid...........and if many didn't move they'd wouldn't be wealthy anymore because they'd lose their asses...........which is why we are losing these jobs.

In order to end the trend we'd have to rebel against Globalization and push to end having a GLOBAL ENTITY decide the policy of the United States................which don't classify VAT taxes as TARIFFS.......................

If we made a direct trade agreement with China..........we'd say your VAT TAXES are a TARIFF...........PERIOD..............and therefore if you want to sell your goods here you will remove those taxes or we will raise our to match....................OR LIMIT THE AMOUNT YOU CAN SELL.

It is a TWO EDGED SWORD as prices will increase as a result..........as China already does to us...................Which is why in the past they were hammered out via negotiations..........sometimes taking years to hammer out the differences...........but it gives us leverage on both exports and imports as a result............

We can't allow them to take the jobs out of our country, EVEN FOR CHEAPER GOODS as it screws the people here. No one wants higher prices, but we cannot allow our jobs to continue to move away unless we want to turn ourselves into an economic shit hole.............

Free Trade needs to end.............and if the WTO wants to fine us for placing Tariffs on areas like Steal production then we simply say you do that we will withdraw from the WTO altogether......................

Its complicated at the least.........but we should not allow a org to determine the trade policies of the United States.

 

[eagle1462010]

BTW ice...............Those major loses to Unions are being felt hard in the North............and the South has taken many of those industries because the wages down here are more reasonable...................

In Alabama we are now producing cars via Mercedes, Toyota and others that have created good paying jobs for our people..........We are getting them via tax incentives and lower pay scales than up North which eventually killed themselves.............

That is not the same as FOREIGN taxes on U.S. manufactured goods via the back door.

I'm not going to look into the China deal, I just know tariffs bring about retaliation so the consumer will take the hit. We owe China boatloads of borrowed money too, maybe that's part of the deal?

I'm sure the borrowed money is part of the deal as well...........but China imposes Tariffs by proxy via the VAT and CT rates................That isn't Free Trade.

Our spending beyond our means is a different issue which needs to end................

No one wants higher prices, but if you lose your jobs in this country as a result of Cheap Chinese goods in the process you lose your Middle Class and Standard of living.

Level the playing field................Is what I'm saying.................PERIOD.

BTW.......we allow China to tariff us without responding now.

 

[eagle1462010]

Imports from outside the EU - Detailed guidance - GOV.UK

VAT
VAT is charged on goods imported from outside the EU at the same rate as if you bought the goods in the UK. VAT-registered businesses can reclaim the VAT as input tax in the same way as VAT is paid on UK purchases. You will also have to pay VAT on any import duty.

Import VAT is paid directly to HMRC, whereas domestic VAT is normally paid to a supplier of goods. After an Import VAT payment is made by a UK VAT registered trader an HMRC form C79 showing the VAT paid will be electronically produced and sent to the business address. You can use this as evidence of the VAT paid on your VAT return; authorised traders may also be able to use the deferred accounting scheme to pay VAT.

Goods such as tobacco and alcohol products are subject to excise duty.

Forget China..........I want to sell a German a Chevy Truck..........Let's say we are selling for 30k...............to the German......plus shipping................PLUS VAT.

VAT rate is at 16%..................increased cost of truck is $4800....................enjoy your chevy...........It's only going to cost you over $5000 more..........

But hey.........I can get there auto's cheaper here than there because we don't have a VAT..................

YEPPER That's really free trade.............

 

[The Rabbi]

Now...................I'd like the experts here...........since I don't know anything at all about economics.............and I am a novice...........to tell me how America gains by allowing China to tax the shit out of our goods even under the WTO and MFN status.................while not doing the same to them by imposing the same upon our goods...............

aka Okay China............we like your cheap products............so now get rid of all consumption taxes on our food products and let us put your FARMERS out of a job like you do our industrial sector................

We'll keep buying your micro chips..........But now you are going to buy our potato chips.

Someone who can't use a period probably shouldn't be posting anywhere.
Anyway, you want to buy a car. You shop around and find the best deal you can. But the dealership is a funny place. They will not buy any products from the company you work for. Now the company you work for sells plenty of stuff to other companies that arent bothered by whatever bothers the dealership. So they're not hurting. They just understand they wont get anywhere with this dealership for right now.
The dealership offered you a deal on the same car you've seen elsewhere for a full $2500 under everyone else's price. Do you buy it?

 

[eagle1462010]

Now...................I'd like the experts here...........since I don't know anything at all about economics.............and I am a novice...........to tell me how America gains by allowing China to tax the shit out of our goods even under the WTO and MFN status.................while not doing the same to them by imposing the same upon our goods...............

aka Okay China............we like your cheap products............so now get rid of all consumption taxes on our food products and let us put your FARMERS out of a job like you do our industrial sector................

We'll keep buying your micro chips..........But now you are going to buy our potato chips.

Someone who can't use a period probably shouldn't be posting anywhere.
Anyway, you want to buy a car. You shop around and find the best deal you can. But the dealership is a funny place. They will not buy any products from the company you work for. Now the company you work for sells plenty of stuff to other companies that arent bothered by whatever bothers the dealership. So they're not hurting. They just understand they wont get anywhere with this dealership for right now.
The dealership offered you a deal on the same car you've seen elsewhere for a full $2500 under everyone else's price. Do you buy it?

I'll post were I please and use periods wherever I please.

In capitalism it's bang for the buck and always has been so..............and as I've already stated level the playing field on industry and business............as it currently is not so for the benefit of foreign competitors...................

and if we continue to lose all these jobs overseas the market for cars will need to shift overseas because that is where the money is flowing.

We lose our textiles we lose jobs......we lose in steel we lose jobs........we lose in Seafood we lose jobs...............

Tell me who will be left to buy the car after all the good paying jobs are gone anyway................We need to keep industry and jobs here wherever and whenever possible to increase the velocity of the money HERE AND NOT IN CHINA..........and I notice you don't say a word about how they get away with taxing the shit out of our products with nothing in return.

I support what benefits the people here and not China...........and anything that benefits us over them is my path................

What job or industry do we surrender next..................unless you want the U.S. to turn into a 3rd world country as everything of real economic value hauls ass......................

Basically your posts are we are fucked and deal with it...................