How we know Hitler was right wing.

[DiamondDave]

Prior coming to this board, I had never heard anyone suggest Hitler was anything but right wing. This may be something to do with living in Europe where the awareness of fascism is so very high because it occured here, or maybe it's something our education system focuses on. Or maybe coincidence.

Either way, recently I've noticed two posters recently insist Hitler was left wing....and even liberal.

Here is SSDD:



Any Authoritarian Socialists of the Nazi party were eliminated during The night of the Long Nives.



In cases like this, I am not sure facts have a great deal of impact, but maybe it is interesting to discuss some of the features of Fascism anyway.

Let's start with some quotes from Hitler:

"The main plank in the Nationalist Socialist program is to abolish the liberalistic concept of the individual and the Marxist concept of humanity and to substitute for them the folk community, rooted in the soil and bound together by the bond of its common blood."

"The German state is gravely attacked by Marxism."

"In the years 1913 and 1914, I… expressed the conviction that the question of the future of the German nation was the question of destroying Marxism."

"In the economic sphere Communism is analogous to democracy in the political sphere."

"The Marxists will march with democracy until they succeed in indirectly obtaining for their criminal aims the support of even the national intellectual world, destined by them for extinction."

"Marxism itself systematically plans to hand the world over to the Jews."

"The Jewish doctrine of Marxism rejects the aristocratic principle of Nature and replaces the eternal privilege of power and strength by the mass of numbers and their dead weight."

Myth: Hitler was a leftist

He attacked OTHER socialist nations because of his will for world domination.. it does not take away from the fact that his totalitarian national socialism was indeed real...

The nazis were about complete government control.. even when they gave 'industries' over to favored 'business people' it was with complete control and huge stipulations (even to the fact that some were eliminated when the socialist nazi bidding was not followed exactly)

Hitler was extreme totalitarian and on the left with his socialist practices

Any Authoritarian Socialists of the Nazi party were eliminated during The night of the Long Nives.

[BNight of the Long Knives - some SA leaders are demanding that the Nazi party carry out its socialist agenda, and that the SA take over the army. Hitler cannot afford to annoy the businessmen or the army, so the SS [SS: Also known as the Blackshirts. A German police/ military style organisation created to serve as the personal bodyguards of Adolf Hitler. In Hitler's Germany they eventually controlled the intelligence, security and police forces, and extermination of those they considered undesirable. ] murders perhaps 400 of the SA members, including its leader Röhm, along with a number of Hitler's other opponents.[/URL][/B]
]http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/history/mwh/germany/hitlerconsolidaterev_print.shtml

More than one flavor of socialist.. everything with Hitler and the nazis was about the state and state control.. well, except for those in power.. for, as stated before, socialism is not for the socialists in charge

 

[Circe]

And they would assume wrongly, like you are

Where do you think fascism should go on the spectrum, or do you have another schema entirely?

At the moment it is being considered "right," but it isn't the same as authoritarianism or monarchism, as in Spain under Franco: that was not fascism, so I've read.

 

[Dutch]

It's nice to know that the right is claiming all of those anarchist hippie protesters at the World Bank summits.

 

[Wyatt earp]

the whole thing about hitler you can argue all day if he was a lefty {anti-smoking, pro-abortion, took down cross's etc..} or an extreme righty. but as a poster pointed out whats the point.? He just ended up being a cold blooded looney tune killer.

 

[Saigon]

the whole thing about hitler you can argue all day if he was a lefty {anti-smoking, pro-abortion, took down cross's etc..} or an extreme righty. but as a poster pointed out whats the point.? He just ended up being a cold blooded looney tune killer.

True - but it matters in terms of historical truth and accuracy.

It is important that we remember Stalin and Mao and Honnecker when we think of communism and the dangers that come with it.

Likewise, it is important that we remember Hitler and Cristiani, Pinochet and Stroessner when we think of the extreme right wing.

To me this is a kind of 'he who does not learn from history is doomed to repeat it' concept.

 

[francoHFW]

OP- this is a brand new RW BS theory, based on one book, "Liberal Fascism" ("Pure drivel"- The Economist), a leading HS Grad charlatan cokehead DJ, Glenn Beck, and of course then the whole Pub Propaganda Machine, for dupes only. I can see how the rest of the world could be confused and aghast.
Answer: Brainwashing of the typical Ugly American ignoramus GOP voter...

 

[Rocko]

It's nice to know that the right is claiming all of those anarchist hippie protesters at the World Bank summits.

No, those would be communists.

 

[DiamondDave]

And they would assume wrongly, like you are

Where do you think fascism should go on the spectrum, or do you have another schema entirely?

At the moment it is being considered "right," but it isn't the same as authoritarianism or monarchism, as in Spain under Franco: that was not fascism, so I've read.

Radical authoritarian is a must for fascism... while it can be debated how far to the left, it has a lot of its basis in Marxism and politically is a leftist mantra.. regulated, controlled, or even owned industry and property to fit the totalitarian needs...

Now.. there have been right wing authoritarian tyrants.. one you could easily recognize would be Genghis Khan

 

[Saigon]

At the moment it is being considered "right," but it isn't the same as authoritarianism or monarchism, as in Spain under Franco: that was not fascism, so I've read.

I would call Franco a Fascist, and also Antonescu, but I agree that Franco's fascism was very different to that of Antonescu or Hitler. The Catholic nature of Spanish culture forced a major shift in focus.

Just as every capitalist society is different because of its own unique local conditions, so each Fascist society was different. Actually Antonescu's Romania was in some ways a more 'pure' fascist society than Hitler's Germany.

 

[DiamondDave]

the whole thing about hitler you can argue all day if he was a lefty {anti-smoking, pro-abortion, took down cross's etc..} or an extreme righty. but as a poster pointed out whats the point.? He just ended up being a cold blooded looney tune killer.

True - but it matters in terms of historical truth and accuracy.

It is important that we remember Stalin and Mao and Honnecker when we think of communism and the dangers that come with it.

Likewise, it is important that we remember Hitler and Cristiani, Pinochet and Stroessner when we think of the extreme right wing.

To me this is a kind of 'he who does not learn from history is doomed to repeat it' concept.

You can keep repeating it.. even though you are shown and explained otherwise.. but that does not make it true

 

[g5000]

The importance of recognizing Marxism as left wing is so that it stands as a warning to left wingers if they become too extreme in their views where those views will take them.

The importance of recognzing Nazism as right wing is so that it serves as a warning to right wingers if they become too extreme in their views where those views will take them.

This recent movement by some ignorant right wingers to tag Nazism as left wing is very concerning for that very reason. As their views become more and more totalitarian, and their views become more Nazi-like, the whackjobs on the right are convincing themselves they don't have Nazi tendencies because "Nazis are left wing so we can't possibly be Nazis."

Which is why I made the satrical topic, How We Know Hitler Was A Liberal.

 

[Wyatt earp]

op you have a point and WWII is my favorite reading material, I never asscoitated {spl?} hitler with either side though because everthing I read hitler used all forms of religion, darwinism. the world, looking for a secrete weapon or say ideology?

 

[AmyNation]

The importance of recognizing Marxism as left wing is so that it stands as a warning to left wingers if they become too extreme in their views where those views will take them.

The importance of recognzing Nazism as right wing is so that it serves as a warning to right wingers if they become too extreme in their views where those views will take them.

This recent movement by some ignorant right wingers to tag Nazism as left wing is very concerning for that very reason. As their views become more and more totalitarian, and their views become more Nazi-like, the whackjobs on the right are convincing themselves they don't have Nazi tendencies because "Nazis are left wing so we can't possibly be Nazis."

Which is why I made the satrical topic, How We Know Hitler Was A Liberal.

Nailed it.

It's important to see the extremes of both views. The notion that some seem to cling to that the extreme of right wing is anarchy is, to me, a dangerously willful blindness. It allows them to get more and more extreme in their position under the certainty that the worst that can happen is less government.

 

[Saigon]

The importance of recognizing Marxism as left wing is so that it stands as a warning to left wingers if they become too extreme in their views where those views will take them.

The importance of recognzing Nazism as right wing is so that it serves as a warning to right wingers if they become too extreme in their views where those views will take them.

This recent movement by some ignorant right wingers to tag Nazism as left wing is very concerning for that very reason. As their views become more and more totalitarian, and their views become more Nazi-like, the whackjobs on the right are convincing themselves they don't have Nazi tendencies because "Nazis are left wing so we can't possibly be Nazis."

Which is why I made the satrical topic, How We Know Hitler Was A Liberal.

Bravo, and extremely well said.

 

[Saigon]

op you have a point and WWII is my favorite reading material, I never asscoitated {spl?} hitler with either side though because everthing I read hitler used all forms of religion, darwinism. the world, looking for a secrete weapon or say ideology?

It is very hard for us to think of Hitler as having principles or morals because he was a psychopath, but he did have a very clear idea of what he believed and what he did not believe. I am not sure we can see he was corrupt, and I do not think he just chose whatever policy suited his needs best - as leaders such as Ceaucesu, Idi Amin and Mobutu Sese have done.

Hitler believed in capitalism, and he believed in the class system as a part of a historical German identity. He did not yearn for the brave new future - but yearned for a distant past of a great and strong Germany.

 

[francoHFW]

This is why the political spectrum is usually shown as a horseshoe, as theRW Nazism/ Fascism (where corporations are kept, and are hugely powerful DUHHH!!)extreme and the LW communism (gov't owns industry) extremes are both totalitarian and almost meet. In the void between is anarchy (no government)...

This whole new theory of Hitler as a socialist is a disgrace and idiocy. Anybody believing it will have a hot reception in the afterlife.lol

 

[CrusaderFrank]

It bugs the fuck out of the Left that, once educated and not indoctrinated, we see Hitler joining his compatriots Mao, Stalin and FDR on the Left.

Boo Fucking Hoo

 

[Saigon]

This is why the political spectrum is usually shown as a horseshoe, as theRW Nazism/ Fascism (where corporations are kept, and are hugely powerful DUHHH!!)extreme and the LW communism (gov't owns industry) extremes are both totalitarian and almost meet. In the void between is anarchy (no government)...

This whole new theory of Hitler as a socialist is a disgrace and idiocy. Anybody believing it will have a hot reception in the afterlife.lol

Yes, that's exactly my take on it, too.

Both extremes are closer to each other than they are to the centre, and maybe it is that distance from extremism to the centre that is starting to force some posters to want to re-write the map a little. i.e. if we can pretend that the Tea Party (or Greens) are really in the centre, then that puts everyone to the left of the Tea Party way out on the fringes.

It's desperate stuff, but I don't get what other reason there might be for wanting to distort the usual terminology.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Not surprisingly, the Progressives tell you the total opposite of what's true: Joe McCarthy's HUAC Blacklisted innocent Hollywood writers, FDR's New Deal saved Capitalism and ended the Great Depression and Hitler and Nazism are right-wing ideologies.

Complete opposite of the truth

 

[Circe]

It's desperate stuff, but I don't get what other reason there might be for wanting to distort the usual terminology.

I guess we could all stick to propaganda and demonizing, but there is also the historical accuracy wing ----

I'm more interested in that than oh-how-awful propaganda.

But the rest of you go on with the message that Hitler was a bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad man and so on. I think that's sort of boring....haven't we been fed that message for lo, these many decades?

I'm more interested in what actually happened at the time.