Zone1 How we repair it: White Americans’ attitudes toward reparations

[Hector12]

400 years of institutionalized racism?


Murray is a crank.

Murray, unlike you, substantiates his assertions with fact after fact. As Negroes continue to prove the assertions of segregationists with their social pathology, the wisdom of Charles Murray is becoming increasingly obvious.

 

[JoeB131]

Joe disagrees. He is nasty piece of work. I try to be polite to him. He interprets my courtesy as cowardliness.

Naw, I think you are a coward for other reasons.

He probably has a computer program that does all the work. The people who are foolish enough to pay him could probably buy the program cheaper than paying for his services.

You've never seen these programs... they are crap.

I love when I get someone who tried exactly what you said... the results are often amusing.

 

[JoeB131]

Murray, unlike you, substantiates his assertions with fact after fact.

Really? Where are his peer reviews?
Which university uses his writings as required reading or textbooks?

 

[rampart]

Those families of Irish and Sicilian peasants were some of the ones discriminating againt blacks during Jim Crow and also were eligible and did receive government assistance in various New Deal and GI Bill programs that blacks were excluded from or denied.

Here is an example.

“In the early years of immigration the poor Irish and blacks were thrown together, very much part of the same class competing for the same jobs. In the census of 1850, the term mulatto appears for the first time due primarily to inter-marriage between Irish and African Americans. The Irish were often referred to as Negroes turned inside out and Negroes as smoked Irish. A famous quip of the time attributed to a black man went something like this: "My master is a great tyrant, he treats me like a common Irishman." Free blacks and Irish were viewed by the Nativists as related, somehow similar, performing the same tasks in society. It was felt that if amalgamation between the races was to happen, it would happen between Irish and blacks. But, ultimately, the Irish made the decision to embrace whiteness, thus becoming part of the system which dominated and oppressed blacks. Although it contradicted their experience back home, it meant freedom here since blackness meant slavery.

An article by a black writer in an 1860 edition of the Liberator explained how the Irish ultimately attained their objectives: "Fifteen or twenty years ago, a Catholic priest in Philadelphia said to the Irish people in that city, 'You are all poor, and chiefly laborers, the blacks are poor laborers; many of the native whites are laborers; now, if you wish to succeed, you must do everything that they do, no matter how degrading, and do it for less than they can afford to do it for.' The Irish adopted this plan; they lived on less than the Americans could live upon, and worked for less, and the result is, that nearly all the menial employments are monopolized by the Irish, who now get as good prices as anybody. There were other avenues open to American white men, and though they have suffered much, the chief support of the Irish has come from the places from which we have been crowded."

Once the Irish secured themselves in those jobs, they made sure blacks were kept out. They realized that as long as they continued to work alongside blacks, they would be considered no different. Later, as Irish became prominent in the labor movement, African Americans were excluded from participation. In fact, one of the primary themes of How the Irish Became White is the way in which left labor historians, such as the highly acclaimed Herbert Gutman, have not paid sufficient attention to the problem of race in the development of the labor movement.

How the Irish Became White

The same Irish and Sicilians have paid for all other reparations that have been paid in America.

i know. my grandparents would use the n word frequently, and observed the back of the bus bull shit. .

i'd like to offer a vision for a better future, but my own anxiety over this next election, well, can we talk about it then?

there are as few states, ca i think, that are studying reparations. maybe they have some thoughts?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

How we repair it: White Americans’ attitudes toward reparations​

The United States is again at a crossroads of racial reckoning. The death of George Floyd and the 2020 summer of protests for racial justice added new urgency to ongoing discussions about the legacy of slavery and its contemporary implications for the lives of Black Americans. A key question at the root of this discussion is: how do we repair the harm – economic, physical, and psychological — caused to Black lives by slavery, Jim Crow, redlining, police brutality, and other manifestations of systemic racism?

The United States has used reparations—targeted initiatives intended to concretely repair a harm against a person or persons resulting from the collective action of others—as a means of acknowledging and atoning for its role in other atrocities, including the internment of Japanese Americans and the forced removal and destruction of six indigenous communities: the Ottawas of Michigan, the Chippewas of Wisconsin, the Seminoles of Florida, the Sioux of South Dakota, the Klamaths of Oregon, and the Alaska Natives.

How we repair it: White Americans’ attitudes toward reparations | Brookings

Ashley V. Reichelmann and Matthew O. Hunt explore white Americans’ attitudes toward reparative policies and social factors affecting their views.

www.brookings.edu

You will never, ever receive reparations.

 

[Hector12]

Really? Where are his peer reviews?
Which university uses his writings as required reading or textbooks?

Name one single book that has been peer reviewed.

 

[JoeB131]

Name one single book that has been peer reviewed.

Where did I say books. I am talking about his scholarly articles, which are peer-reviewed.

Not Murray's garbage, though.

 

[Hector12]

Where did I say books. I am talking about his scholarly articles, which are peer-reviewed.

Not Murray's garbage, though.

Charles Murray's assertions, unlike yours are fact based. They are obvious to high school guidance counselors.

 

[JoeB131]

Charles Murray's assertions, unlike yours are fact based. They are obvious to high school guidance counselors.

The scary thing is that we even HAVE HS Counselors. What worthless pieces of meat those people are.

Murray is a crank. He can't even go outside his house without a bodyguard

 

[Hector12]

The scary thing is that we even HAVE HS Counselors. What worthless pieces of meat those people are.

Murray is a crank. He can't even go outside his house without a bodyguard

Where did you learn that nonsense? If there is any truth to it at all, it emphasizes the fact that your perspective depends on force. Murray's perspective and mine depends on the free exchange of facts and opinions.

Force has been used against your perspective, and it has been in the past.

 

[JoeB131]

Where did you learn that nonsense? If there is any truth to it at all, it emphasizes the fact that your perspective depends on force. Murray's perspective and mine depends on the free exchange of facts and opinions.

Force has been used against your perspective, and it has been in the past.

My perspective depends on the free exchange of fists. Don't want to get punched in the mouth, keep your filthy mouth shut.

Yes, force WAS used to keep black folks down. When they learn to fight back, you soil yourself.

 

[Hector12]

My perspective depends on the free exchange of fists. Don't want to get punched in the mouth, keep your filthy mouth shut.

Yes, force WAS used to keep black folks down. When they learn to fight back, you soil yourself.

You just posted a remarkably candid revelation of your political attitudes. You know that the assertions of Charles Murray, Jared Taylor, and Professor's Arthur Jensen, Richard Herrnsein, and J. Philippe Rushton are true. That is why you fear a candid, uncoerced debate of their assertions.

Brains overcome fists. That is why so many blacks remain poor. All they have is physical violence that earns prison sentences for them.

The black ghetto riots that happened from 1964 to 1968 destroyed the Democrat Coalition that had existed since the inauguration of President Roosevelt in 1933, and led to the election and re election of Richard Nixon, who prolonged a war in Vietnam.

I voted against Nixon and Ronald Reagan, twice in each case. Reagan was elected and re elected in a landslide like Nixon, because like Nixon he pandered to widespread hostility for Negroes. That is what Negro fists achieved.

 

[JoeB131]

You just posted a remarkably candid revelation of your political attitudes. You know that the assertions of Charles Murray, Jared Taylor, and Professor's Arthur Jensen, Richard Herrnsein, and J. Philippe Rushton are true. That is why you fear a candid, uncoerced debate of their assertions.

No, guy, we rejected this garbage 50 years ago, but these racist assholes are still flapping their gums. (Well, most of them are thankfully taking dirt naps now, and the sad thing is, because Hell isn't really a thing; they didn't go there to be evil fucks. Sometimes it sucks being an atheist.)

Brains overcome fists. That is why so many blacks remain poor. All they have is physical violence that earns prison sentences for them.

Uh, guy, I'm sorry you were the class nerd who constantly got stuffed into lockers... Sometimes you got to fight to be a man. I'm sorry no one taught you that when you were young.

The black ghetto riots that happened from 1964 to 1968 destroyed the Democrat Coalition that had existed since the inauguration of President Roosevelt in 1933, and led to the election and re election of Richard Nixon, who prolonged a war in Vietnam.

Your history is totally wrong, as usual, guy. Sure, Nixon and Reagan did well, but Carter and Clinton still did pretty well in the South in 1976, 1992, and 1996.

You see, here's the problem. The GOP appeals to not only the racism of white people, but their religious bigotry, their misogyny, their homophobia, and their transphobia. And when times are reasonably good, white people (doing that to annoy Lisa) indulge their worst instincts. However, when Republicans inevitably fuck up the economy for working folks, as they always do because it's not a bug, it's a design feature, then just enough white people say, "Oh, it's the economy stupid," and vote Democratic. Sometimes, these dumb white bigots will even vote for (gasp) a black man!!!

the ONLY reason why anyone cares about what these white bigots think at all is because we are still using a bizarre system to select presidents. The GOP hasn't won an election without cheating since 1988.

 

[Hector12]

No, guy, we rejected this garbage 50 years ago, but these racist assholes are still flapping their gums. (Well, most of them are thankfully taking dirt naps now, and the sad thing is, because Hell isn't really a thing; they didn't go there to be evil fucks. Sometimes it sucks being an atheist.)

Who is "we?" Just because a lot of people do not like what race realists say does not mean it is not true?

Is this a lie?

Is this a lie?

=========================
2006 College & University
Guidance, Scholarships, Money and Info Gateways
(For Students, Parents, College Advisors, Mentors,
and Cultural Groups)
==========================

​

SAT and ACT Scores by Race/Ethnicity: 2003

In recent years the noted pattern of test scores has reflected similar numbers--
Editor, 2005

SAT Ethnic Group Scores (Math/Verbal+total)

• American Indian---482/480 (962)
• Asian American-----575/508 (1083)
• African American-----426/431 (857)
• Puerto Rican----457/448 (905)

Other Hispanic----464/457 (921)

• White-----534/529 (1063)
• Other ----513/501 (1014)

Source: www.collegeboard.com

Average ACT Composite Score by Race/Ethnicity, 2003
----------------------------------------------------

• African American ----16.9
• American Indian---18.7
• Caucasian---- 21.7
• Mexican American----18.3
• Asian American---- 21.8
• Hispanic----19.0
• Other ----19.3
• Multiracial-----20.9
• Prefer Not to Respond -----21.8
• No Response-----20.1

Source: www.act.org

SAT and ACT Scores by Race/Ethnicity

SAT and ACT Scores broken down by Race/Ethnicity.

www.blackexcel.org

Are these lies?

Race and crime in the United States​

According to the FBI 2019 Uniform Crime Report, African-Americans accounted for 55.9% of all homicide offenders in 2019, with whites 41.1%...

The per-capita offending rate for African-Americans was roughly eight times higher than that of whites...

According to the FBI Uniform Crime Reports, in 2008, black youths, who make up 16% of the youth population, accounted for 52% of juvenile violent crime arrests, including 58.5% of youth arrests for homicide and 67% for robbery...

According to the National Crime Victimization Survey in 2002, robberies with white victims and black offenders were more than 12 times more common than the opposite.[57][58]

Race and crime in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

What about this? Is this a lie too?

Percentage of Births to Unmarried Women​

ROGER CLEGG FEBRUARY 26, 2020

For all racial and ethnic groups combined, 39.6 percent of births in the United States were out-of-wedlock (incidentally, isn’t that appalling?). And there was as always a tremendous range among groups. For blacks, the number is 69.4 percent; for American Indians/Alaska Natives, 68.2 percent (Native Hawaiians/Other Pacific Islanders were at 50.4 percent); for Hispanics, 51.8 percent; for whites, 28.2 percent; and for Asian Americans, a paltry 11.7 percent.

Percentage of Births to Unmarried Women | Center for Equal Opportunity

ceousa.org

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Scientific truth is not determined by majority vote. It is not determined fists. It is determined by facts that can be documented. It is determined by careful measurements, and by repeatable experiments.

Race realists do not lie, JoeB131. They draw attention to facts that are easy to document, and that have legitimate policy implications.

Policies that are based on assumptions about humans that are not true fail, and often have harmful effects.

 

[JoeB131]

Who is "we?" Just because a lot of people do not like what race realists say does not mean it is not true?

Is this a lie?

Yes, this is a lie.

Try saying your shit out in public, and you'll find out how not true it is.

 

[Hector12]

Yes, this is a lie.

Try saying your shit out in public, and you'll find out how not true it is.

That would depend on who I am talking to.

Nixon and Reagan, both of whom I voted against, appealed to widely held attitudes about Negroes. The popularity of Trump, who again I voted against, demonstrates that those opinions are still out there. They persist because blacks reinforce them with their average performance and behavior.

 

[JoeB131]

That would depend on who I am talking to.

Nixon and Reagan, both of whom I voted against, appealed to widely held attitudes about Negroes. The popularity of Trump, who again I voted against, demonstrates that those opinions are still out there. They persist because blacks reinforce them with their average performance and behavior.

None of them spew the shit you say.

That's the problem, guy. There's a difference between being mildly bigoted and the Nazi Eugenics bullshit you spew.

 

[Hector12]

None of them spew the shit you say.

That's the problem, guy. There's a difference between being mildly bigoted and the Nazi Eugenics bullshit you spew.

You are the one who hates Jews; I admire them.

Your excuses for hating Jews could be paraphrased from Mein Kampf.

 

[JoeB131]

You are the one who hates Jews; I admire them.

Your excuses for hating Jews could be paraphrased from Mein Kampf.

I don't hate Jews. I just realize their religion is kind of messed up and makes them do stupid shit.

It's why they are hated nearly everywhere they go.

 

[Hector12]

Yes, this is a lie.

Try saying your shit out in public, and you'll find out how not true it is.

You're a stubborn one Joe. I can tell why you applaud the censorship of the mob. Facts never get into your closed and narrow mind.

It will not be possible for those of your persuasion to continue to suppress the truth. Scientists are discovering genes for intelligence, and behavior. It will soon be discovered that genes for intelligence are more likely to be found in whites than blacks, and that genes for crime and illegitimacy are more likely to be found in blacks than whites.

Meanwhile, most Negroes will continue to disappoint optimistic assumptions about their potential.