Hunters....you still think they don't want your guns too......banning lead ammo...

[Ernie S.]

I run .40 FMJ in steel cases all the time. It's lead with a copper jacket. Only the case is steel.

 

[WinterBorn]

I run .40 FMJ in steel cases all the time. It's lead with a copper jacket. Only the case is steel.

My explanation showed why a pure steel bullet will not work.
The bullet has to have at least a layer of softer metal on the outside to fill the grooves.

 

[Jarlaxle]

But it doesn't matter: a bullet with ANY steel in it is, according to F-troop, "armor piercing" and therefore prohibited.

 

[BlackSand]

Steel bullets are generally "washed" in copper ... Anywhere from one wash to triple washing (0.002 - 0.004 mils).
Bore groves are generally 0.007 mils and the barrels of most weapons associated with steel cartridge use are chrome plated.

So it is a matter of six of one - a half dozen of another.
If you use steel content bullets ... It is important to remember berm requirements at the range, and the associated risks of ricochets and sparks when striking other hard objects.

.

 

[Ravi]

Did the cost of shotgun shells increase significantly due to the requirements for steel shot?

You are missing the point: in many common calibers (including .30-06, 7.62x39, and .223), steel rifle rounds are ALREADY PROHIBITED!

A steel round in a rifle is a recipe for disaster.

A shotgun fires a mass of pellets down the barrel. Steel pellets simply bounce around the barrel.

A rifle has a MUCH different operation.

I will use a .308NATO caliber as an example.

The main part of the .308NATO barrel has an inside diameter of .3 inches. It also has groves that are .004 inches deep, and these grooves run the length of the barrel and provide a slight twist on the projectile. The bullet is .308 inches in diameter. So from the outside of one groove across the barrel to the outside of the opposite groove is .308 inches.

When the gun is fired, the firing pin strikes the primer and sets it off. This ignites the powder in the cartridge. The cartridge case is made of metal that is soft enough to expand slightly, to seal off the side and force all of the explosive power down the barrel. The bullet (the solid projectile) hits the chamber (cone shaped at the rear) and is forced into the barrel proper. Since the bullet is slightly larger than the barrel, the soft metal (lead, copper ect) is forced into the grooves. This makes the bullet follow the twist of the grooves to provides the spin which aids in stabilizing the bullet during flight. This is why rifles are more accurate than muskets. The rate of twist can vary, depending on the intended weight of the bullet.

If a steel bullet were used it would not conform to the grooves in the barrel, but would become a plug. The force of the explosion would then have to find another way out, typically back towards the shooter.

Non-lead bullets are not solid steel in all but extreme cases.
They generally are considered "bi-metal" bullets ... Such as a copper bullet with a steel core.
There have also been advances in solid copper bullets ... Cutting Edge Bullets Welcome

There are problems though associated with these bullets.
They have more penetration issues ... They don't transfer the same kinetic energy to the initial target either.
A steel core copper bullet can in most cases go right through a deer ... And standard body armor won't stop it any better either.

By street definition ... They could generally be considered "cop killers".
You could shoot a small, clean hole through something and it may not know how bad it shot until it bleeds out.

.

Now that brings an interesting point to mind. If you are paranoid, you could claim they are banning lead bullets so that we will be forced to use only steel bullets, which will then be banned as cop-killers.

Bullet Types

There is a pic in that article showing the expansion of several brands of existing non-lead bullets. They look like good expansions to me. If I understand it, they expand well but do not fragment like lead. For the hunter this is a very good thing as it maximizes the wound channel.

The bill is written that if the Feds restrict steel or copper bullets as cop killers and banned, the lead bullet ban will be lifted.

 

[Ravi]

No, they are grants for conservation.

They are grants for conservation because Ducks Unlimited does what the State does not in providing for the Conservation.
They qualify for the grants when applicable because they have met the requirements applicable in the law.

You ask for proof you essentially provide in your objections and still fail to see the connection.
What is wrong with you ... How can you be so jaded as to continue to fail to understand how the actual conservation you desire takes place?

Instead of attempting to discredit any attempts by others to more effectively and efficiently accomplish the goals necessary ... Get your head out of your ass and look at the writing on the wall.

.

The government gives DU funds to provide for conservation. How does that equal the state not providing?

I've not discredited anything. I asked you for a link to show that hunting fees provide more support than tax funding. Still waiting.

Fish and Wildlife Service

Mkay, that's 200 million. Where did the other 500 million come from in CA alone?

Read it again.....
What do hunters do for conservation?
A lot. The sale of hunting licenses, tags, and stamps is the "primary source" of funding for most state wildlife conservation efforts.

Holy shit. There is no possibility that is wrong since the government wouldn't mislead us. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

They are grants for conservation because Ducks Unlimited does what the State does not in providing for the Conservation.
They qualify for the grants when applicable because they have met the requirements applicable in the law.

You ask for proof you essentially provide in your objections and still fail to see the connection.
What is wrong with you ... How can you be so jaded as to continue to fail to understand how the actual conservation you desire takes place?

Instead of attempting to discredit any attempts by others to more effectively and efficiently accomplish the goals necessary ... Get your head out of your ass and look at the writing on the wall.

.

The government gives DU funds to provide for conservation. How does that equal the state not providing?

I've not discredited anything. I asked you for a link to show that hunting fees provide more support than tax funding. Still waiting.

Fish and Wildlife Service

Mkay, that's 200 million. Where did the other 500 million come from in CA alone?

Read it again.....
What do hunters do for conservation?
A lot. The sale of hunting licenses, tags, and stamps is the "primary source" of funding for most state wildlife conservation efforts.

Holy shit. There is no possibility that is wrong since the government wouldn't mislead us. Thanks for pointing that out.

While I dont really trust the government ...pretty sure they aren't going to bother lying about wildlife funding.