Hydroxychloroquine (Plaquenil) Thread

[Fort Fun Indiana]

He said he heard and people heard him and it saved lives.

So what? They don't know that is what worked. They may believe it. It may be true. But they don't know it IS true. Do you or do you not get this? There has been no scientifically demonstrated effectiveness. None. You're hearing stories that confirm your bias. By design. Stories of positivity and hope. Great, but based in science, they are not. You hear the story of the guy treated who got worse for 2 weeks, then got better. Chloroquine! (no focus on how he got worse for a while). You hear the story of the person who got better in a few hours, after 2 weeks of symptoms (the norm). Chloroquine! (see: Detroit rep) It's misleading and plays right into confirmation bias.

 

[ding]

It’s also a drug that has been widely used so it’s side affects are well known.

Apparently, not, as the drug caused unexpected heart arrhythmia for the doses given in patients in a trial in Brazil.

So "letting Grammy die" rather than advising her to follow her doctor's suggestions or ASKING about the drug with her doctor -- is HIS burden to bear...

The doctor doesn't known anything more about its effectiveness than you or me, at this point.

What about these doctors? Let me guess: they all hate Trump.

Chloroquine, Ibuprofen and Beyond: Doctors Discuss Latest Treatments, and Treatment Rumors, For COVID-19

There are no therapies proven to prevent or treat COVID-19 yet, but providers can help address symptoms while they continue researching new ideas.

labblog.uofmhealth.org

"...
“Our infectious disease division and our antimicrobial pharmacists have reviewed all the available data and we found no convincing evidence that these drugs were effective in treating people with COVID-19,” Kaul says.

That’s consistent with what’s been observed firsthand in Michigan Medicine’s hospitals.

“We haven’t seen any clear evidence of benefit so we aren’t going to use hydroxychloroquine routinely anymore,” Chopra says. “We were initially recommending it to both inpatients and outpatients, but we’re no longer doing that routinely. That’s based upon the fact that we’ve been prescribing hydroxychloroquine for a few weeks, did not see therapeutic benefit, but did see adverse effects.”

Those side effects Chopra has seen in his patients include liver function toxicity, nausea and vomiting.

Moving forward, Chopra and Kaul say the strategy is to individualize these decisions for each patient, considering risks and benefits based on that person’s health history and symptoms.

..."

You do realize this was a widely used drug to fight malaria, right? Were all of the doctors who prescribed it irresponsible? Do you have a license to practice medicine? No. You don’t. But because of politics you think you know better than all the doctors in the world who have prescribed this medicine. All because you define the rule through exception?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Moving forward, Chopra and Kaul say the strategy is to individualize these decisions for each patient, considering risks and benefits based on that person’s health history and symptoms.

In other words, if there is nothing left to lose, and the family asks for it.... and even then, only maybe...

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

He said he heard and people heard him and it saved lives.

So what? They don't know that is what worked. They may believe it. It may be true. But they don't know it IS true. Do you or do you not get this? There has been no scientifically demonstrated effectiveness. None. Your hearing stories that confirm your bias. Stories of positivity and hope. Great, but based in science, they are not. You hear the story of the guy treated who got worse for 2 weeks, then got better. Chloroquine! (no focus on how he got worse for a while). You hear the story of the person who got better in a few hours, after 2 weeks of symptoms (the norm). Chloroquine! (see: Detroit rep) It's misleading and plays right into confirmation bias.

It saved lives. It saved lives. It saved lives. So all the doctors are wrong and you’re right? You’re a troll.

 

[flacaltenn]

It’s also a drug that has been widely used so it’s side affects are well known.

Apparently, not, as the drug caused unexpected heart arrhythmia for the doses given in patients in a trial in Brazil.

So "letting Grammy die" rather than advising her to follow her doctor's suggestions or ASKING about the drug with her doctor -- is HIS burden to bear...

The doctor doesn't known anything more about its effectiveness than you or me, at this point.

What about these doctors? Let me guess: they all hate Trump.

Chloroquine, Ibuprofen and Beyond: Doctors Discuss Latest Treatments, and Treatment Rumors, For COVID-19

There are no therapies proven to prevent or treat COVID-19 yet, but providers can help address symptoms while they continue researching new ideas.

labblog.uofmhealth.org

"...
“Our infectious disease division and our antimicrobial pharmacists have reviewed all the available data and we found no convincing evidence that these drugs were effective in treating people with COVID-19,” Kaul says.

That’s consistent with what’s been observed firsthand in Michigan Medicine’s hospitals.

“We haven’t seen any clear evidence of benefit so we aren’t going to use hydroxychloroquine routinely anymore,” Chopra says. “We were initially recommending it to both inpatients and outpatients, but we’re no longer doing that routinely. That’s based upon the fact that we’ve been prescribing hydroxychloroquine for a few weeks, did not see therapeutic benefit, but did see adverse effects.”

Those side effects Chopra has seen in his patients include liver function toxicity, nausea and vomiting.

Moving forward, Chopra and Kaul say the strategy is to individualize these decisions for each patient, considering risks and benefits based on that person’s health history and symptoms.

..."

Chopra notes that use of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine could also exclude a patient from being allowed to join other COVID-19-related clinical trials, so it’s important to consider all of these factors before prescribing the drug.

Pretty sure U Mich has announced their OWN clinical trials and they NEED Guinea pigs... DOn't want to contaminate those "scientific results" that will be TOO LATE to help...

And I don't believe it EVER should have been given to "outpatients" or routinely... WTF is THAT???

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

It saved lives. It saved lives. It saved lives.

Hmm, no, you don't know that it did. You just heard that it did. These people don't know this worked, either. They just don't. You really, really need to read the article I posted to you earlier.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Pretty sure U Mich has announced their OWN clinical trials and they NEED Guinea pigs... DOn't want to contaminate those "scientific results" that will be TOO LATE to help...

What does that have to do with observing no benefit, and only adverse effects? Are you accusing them of lying? Go on then, say it outright.

Of course, they must be lying, because Dear Leader. Look at what Trump is doing to your brain.

 

[flacaltenn]

Pretty sure U Mich has announced their OWN clinical trials and they NEED Guinea pigs... DOn't want to contaminate those "scientific results" that will be TOO LATE to help...

What does that have to do with observing no benefit, and only adverse effects? Are you accusing them of lying? Go on then, say it outright.

Of course, they must be lying, because Dear Leader. Look at what Trump is doing to your brain.

No.. I find it strange in giving advice TO THE PUBLIC, that a VESTED INTEREST in getting clean patients for clinical trials of other drugs would be important enough to even mention?? You check to see if they are a testing site for Gilead and Rememslivar or whatever that COMPANY is peddling???

 

[ding]

I bet if Trump said water was good FortFunIndiana would die of dehydration.

 

[flacaltenn]

Lots of $$$$ flowing on research on this.. Stya skeptical about doctors fixated "on clean clinical trials"... It's just in my scientific training...

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

No.. I find it strange in giving advice TO THE PUBLIC, that a VESTED INTEREST in getting clean patients for clinical trials of other drugs would be important enough to even mention??

It is mentioned in the article. Of course, you realize, they thought of that before using it routinely, too. But they saw no benefits.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

It saved lives. It saved lives. It saved lives.

Hmm, no, you don't know that it did. You just heard that it did. These people don't know this worked, either. They just don't. You really, really need to read the article I posted to you earlier.

You’re wrong. I read and watched their testimonials. I read studies that flac and others posted. I am convinced it works for most people. If one of my loved ones was in a dire situation, I would 100% demand it for them. That is how confident I am. So in the end we agree to disagree. Which is fine.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

I bet if Trump said water was good FortFunIndiana would die of dehydration.

If Trump found the cure for cancer, FFI would blame him for all the job losses in cancer research. Impossible to reason with zealots

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Lots of $$$$ flowing on research on this

Then if it is effective as you say, the evidence will come flowing forth any day now. Right?

. I read and watched their testimonials. I

So what? Just because they believe it worked doea not meam it did. You can find testimonials to homeopathoc nonsense all over the web. Testimonials mean squat.

I read studies that flac and others posted

You read no study showing the medicine is effective. Because there arent any, yet.

am convinced it works for most people.

Good for you. I am relieved you are not in charge of any of this. But a guy who believes it is (which is why you believe it, really), and that's not a good thing.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So here is the trail of this fad, from China to Trump's mouth.

China releases a report than 80 patients with Lupus did not contract covid-19. Based on an old rumor from a 1965 study on chloroquine's anti vital properties, they speculate it as a treatment for covid-19. Mind you, no claim had been made that it worked on any ill patients.

Didier Raoult, known to be dubious, picks up on this as a miracle cure and publishes a video and article on it. (Reversing course from his own earlier claims that there was nothing to worry about from the virus)

Giuliani sees this and relays it to Trump. Trump regurgitates it.

And here on this message board, you see the effects and weight of the president's behavior and words. You see it all over the country. You see Macron, suckered in the same way.

 

[flacaltenn]

Lots of $$$$ flowing on research on this

Then if it is effective as you say, the evidence will come flowing forth any day now. Right?

. I read and watched their testimonials. I

So what? Just because they believe it worked doea not meam it did. You can find testimonials to homeopathoc nonsense all over the web. Testimonials mean squat.

I read studies that flac and others posted

You read no study showing the medicine is effective. Because there arent any, yet.

am convinced it works for most people.

Good for you. I am relieved you are not in charge of any of this. But a guy who believes it is (which is why you believe it, really), and that's not a good thing.

Well LO and BEHOLD, the FCT patented scientific "STINK-O-METER" is STILL 97% correct.. Here's the 411 on the U Mich article you posted.. I was TOTALLY on target... Check out page 4 you commie...

http://www.med.umich.edu/asp/pdf/adult_guidelines/COVID-19-treatment.pdf

They are testing the Gilead drug and others against HCQuine.. That's WHY these jerks even mentioned "disqualifying" patients from clinical trials as a concern.. The big bucks are flowing in their veins...

I wish I could tell you how I KNOW this stuff.. Suffice it say that if you or your family have BEEN in a HOSPITAL, visited a medical imaging center or been to an off site ER, you've probably used one or MORE of the products that my consulting group researched and/or developed for medicine.. I've helped more products thru FDA testing and/or clinical trials than you've probably had girlfriends...

 

[flacaltenn]

So here is the trail of this fad, from China to Trump's mouth.

China releases a report than 80 patients with Lupus did not contract covid-19. Based on an old rumor from a 1965 study on chloroquine's anti vital properties, they speculate it as a treatment for covid-19. Mind you, no claim had been made that it worked on any ill patients.

Didier Raoult, known to be dubious, picks up on this as a miracle cure and publishes a video and article on it. (Reversing course from his own earlier claims that there was nothing to worry about from the virus)

Giuliani sees this and relays it to Trump. Trump regurgitates it.

And here on this message board, you see the effects and weight of the president's behavior and words. You see it all over the country. You see Macron, suckered in the same way.

Guarantee it did NOT happen that way...

 

[flacaltenn]

Here's the OTHER drug (manufactured by Genentech) that U MICH is pushing against the cheaper GENERIC HCQuine/Azithromycin therapy...

FDA approves trial of arthritis drug to treat COVID-19 pneumonia as NYC doc says he got it and improved

The FDA has given fast-track approval to a clinical trial involving a rheumatoid arthritis drug thought to help patients with COVID-19 pneumonia, Genentech announced Monday. The drug, Tocilizumab (…

www.nydailynews.com

 

[EvilCat Breath]

five minutes out of ignore and you are as annoying as ever.

Yeah, avert your eyes, Dear Leader is about to be skewered...

By Joe! Go Joe " stink finger" Biden. He can go all the way.

 

[Montrovant]

You sound paranoid people are critical of Trump for nefarious reasons. Like, educated doctors who criticize him and his drug comments or opinions are only trying to hurt him. None of them really cares about patients and Doctor stuff. Doctors, who disagree with Trump are just evil?

I don't think the doctors disagree with him on testing it; it's touting it as a miracle cure without enough testing. They want to continue testing on hydroxycholoroquine to make sure it is safe, in the right dosage, and under what circumstances. We've had some adverse reactions, so it isn't something to prescribe like pain killers (tongue firmly in cheek).

It has already been tested for safety. The label "miracle cure" is idiotic. Are antibiotics a "miracle cure?" Whatever you call them, the certainly do work. The evidence we have so far is pretty conclusive that hydroxycholoroquine works.

The evidence is extremely limited so far, isn’t it?
I mean, yes, absolutely try this drug if there’s evidence it may be an effective treatment. It’s a long established medicine, so there are fewer questions about it. If it’s effective it will be much easier to use in a widespread way than a totally new drug. I just haven’t seen a huge amount of evidence about its effectiveness, probably because there hasn’t been that much time to gather data.

They just performed a study of slightly over 1000 people and 95% of them showed dramatic improvement within hours.

How much proof do you need?

It's obvious that turds like you simply don't want a solution to this virus to be available. You are literally cheering for more old people to die.

So a study was just done, I haven't seen the results you claim came from the study, so that means I don't want a solution to the virus? I think it's more likely that you just want to assume things to fit a narrative.

Oh, and this: