i can see this turning ugly

[AllieBaba]

O c'mon Immie. You seriously believe that her "liberal professors" found out about this student's religion and set out to have her expelled?

This student made an issue of her unwillingness to treat homosexuals in the manner dictated by the code and rules that govern all members of her profession. Seems to me, if anyone set out to create an issue, she did.

The religion thing is a smokescreen. This student wanted, and got, a backdoor way to challenge established protocols that have been in place for decades regarding homosexuals and therapy.

NO, she didn't make an issue of anything.

A student with whom she had shared her thoughts on conversion therapy OUTSIDE OF CLASS "turned her in", resulting in her being called up and told that she needed to revise her opinions and recant her faith, after going to trainings and agreeing to being "checked up on" later.

Read the fucking material and do a little research.

 

[AllieBaba]

Or, in the event you already know that, quit lying.

 

[AllieBaba]

"A graduate student in school counseling is accusing Augusta State University in federal court of violating her constitutional rights by demanding that she work to change her views opposing homosexuality.

In a lawsuit filed on Wednesday in the U.S. District Court in Augusta, Ga., the student, Jennifer Keeton, argues that faculty members and administrators at the university have violated her First Amendment rights to free speech and the free exercise of religion by threatening her with expulsion if she does not fufill requirements contained in a remediation plan intended to get her to change her beliefs.

Ms. Keeton's lawsuit accuses the university of being "ideologically heavy-handed" in imposing the requirements on her "simply because she has communicated both inside and outside the classroom that she holds to Christian ethical convictions on matters of human sexuality and gender identity."

"The group has brought a similar lawsuit on behalf of an Eastern Michigan University graduate student who alleges she was dismissed from a counseling program for her beliefs about homosexuality. In 2006 the group extracted major concessions from Missouri State University in settling a lawsuit filed by a former social-work student who refused to respect a class project's requirement that she sign a letter to the state legislature in support of homosexual adoption."

"In a news release announcing the lawsuit against Augusta State, David French, senior counsel for the Alliance Defense Fund, said: "A public-university student shouldn't be threatened with expulsion for being Christian and refusing to publicly renounce her faith, but that's exactly what's happening here. Simply put, the university is imposing thought reform."

The lawsuit says Ms. Keeton has stated in classroom discussions and written assignments that she believes sexual behavior "is the result of accountable personal choice," that people are born male or female, and that homosexuality is a lifestyle and not a "state of being." It says faculty members at Augusta State confronted her about her beliefs based on such statements and on a student's claim that Ms. Keeton has advocated "conversion therapy" for homosexuals in conversations with her peers—an allegation that Ms. Keeton denies."

"It also instructs her to work to increase her exposure to, and interaction with, gay populations, and suggests that she attend the local gay-pride parade. Ms. Keeton has refused to comply."

Augusta State U. Is Accused of Requiring a Counseling Student to Accept Homosexuality - Faculty - The Chronicle of Higher Education

 

[Immanuel]

I wonder if positions would change in this thread, if the student were a lesbian attending Liberty University and the university had threatened to deny her degree if she did not renounce her sexual preference.

I suspect that there are several people on this thread that would flip flop in that case.

Immie

 

[AllieBaba]

They are requiring she work specifically with homosexuals because she has stated that she is a Christian who believes homosexuality is a choice.

That's it.

 

[Madeline]

Jennifer Keeton, 24, has been enrolled in the College of Education's School Counselor masters degree program since fall 2009. She has expressed her Christian beliefs in class discussions and written assignments, but it was her views regarding gender and sexuality that irked faculty.

According to the filed complaint, "She has stated that she believes sexual behavior is the result of accountable personal choice rather than an inevitability deriving from deterministic forces. She also has affirmed binary male-female gender, with one or the other being fixed in each person at their creation, and not a social construct or individual choice subject to alteration by the person so created. Further, she has expressed her view that homosexuality is a 'lifestyle,' not a 'state of being.'"

Allie, get a grip and try to stay on-topic.

 

[Immanuel]

Allie, the question of freedom of speech for university professors is not, not, not the same as a question of allowing a homophobe to graduate and become a public school counselor. In the case of professors of other disciplines, something might be wrong. It is a question worth examining. But in the case of this student, she has announced (made an issue of the fact) that she cannot deal with a segment of the student population in a manner that conforms to the requirements of her hoped-for profession.

That is completely inaccurate Madeline. She never said any such thing.

Immie

 

[Madeline]

I wonder if positions would change in this thread, if the student were a lesbian attending Liberty University and the university had threatened to deny her degree if she did not renounce her sexual preference.

I suspect that there are several people on this thread that would flip flop in that case.

Immie

I'll be the first to admit I feel the APA is correct, Immie. IMO, homosexuality is as normative as heterosexuality and people with this orientation deserve just as much respect. As for the rest of your example, Liberty University is a private Baptist college. I have no idea how they integrate modern thought about science and sexuality into their curriculum, but if they graduate people who will seek licensure as public school counselors, seems to me they'd have exactly the same problem.

In any event, the rights of a private university are different from those of a public one.

 

[Madeline]

Allie, the question of freedom of speech for university professors is not, not, not the same as a question of allowing a homophobe to graduate and become a public school counselor. In the case of professors of other disciplines, something might be wrong. It is a question worth examining. But in the case of this student, she has announced (made an issue of the fact) that she cannot deal with a segment of the student population in a manner that conforms to the requirements of her hoped-for profession.

That is completely inaccurate Madeline. She never said any such thing.

Immie

Immie, we all have read the same damned article. It says what it says.

 

[AllieBaba]

It didn't say that, you lying sack.

 

[AllieBaba]

Didn't I post a video and a whole mess of articles related to this here this morning?

 

[bodecea]

They are requiring she work specifically with homosexuals because she has stated that she is a Christian who believes homosexuality is a choice.

That's it.

Well, I can understand her not wanting to get near homosexuals...it's catching, I hear.

 

[Immanuel]

O c'mon Immie. You seriously believe that her "liberal professors" found out about this student's religion and set out to have her expelled?

This student made an issue of her unwillingness to treat homosexuals in the manner dictated by the code and rules that govern all members of her profession. Seems to me, if anyone set out to create an issue, she did.

The religion thing is a smokescreen. This student wanted, and got, a backdoor way to challenge established protocols that have been in place for decades regarding homosexuals and therapy.

No she did not Madeline. Have you read any of the links? Even one of them?

She stated that she realized that there was a need to keep her personal beliefs separate from her professional beliefs.

Yes, I do believe that her liberal professors do not like her viewpoint and the fact that she will not conform to what they want her to believe. Tolerance is not an attribute of liberalism and definitely not an attribute of university professors. She is strong-willed and that infuriates them.

The fact that she is only 24 and has a long way to go to being qualified to enter the profession... meaning she has a lot to learn... makes this about her faith and her personality. They don't like her. They don't like the fact that she is unwilling to conform. Therefore, they are going to punish her. They do not belong in their own profession. They are not behaving professionally themselves, yet, have the audacity to criticize her?

Immie

 

[AllieBaba]

Allie, the question of freedom of speech for university professors is not, not, not the same as a question of allowing a homophobe to graduate and become a public school counselor. In the case of professors of other disciplines, something might be wrong. It is a question worth examining. But in the case of this student, she has announced (made an issue of the fact) that she cannot deal with a segment of the student population in a manner that conforms to the requirements of her hoped-for profession.

Since when is the definition of homophobe "A person who believes homosexuality is a choice, rather than an inherited, trait"?

Because last I heard, there was no proof that homosexuality is inherited.

I keep asking you questions and you keep failing to provide answers. You just continue to spew the same fascist, hate-filled message: Christians are homophobes who should be feared and definitely should be ousted from the halls of higher learning and prevented from having contact with people.

 

[Immanuel]

You are correct, Allie. If a public university withheld degrees based upon a student's religious beliefs, they'd have a civil rights problem. But that is not what is happening. The school has asked this student to take diversity training, etc. because of her outspoken views on homosexuals and the manner in which her views will impact her performance as a counselor.

Diversity training = brainwashing and is absolutely un-American.

Immie

Why, Immie? Most diversity training occurs in the workplace, as employers attempt to create a more respectful atmosphere for all employees. This is supposed to happen in a school...so? Seems to me, this student very much needs to have contact with, learn about, and come to respect people who are homosexual.

I see nothing "un-American" about altering behavior that gives unwarranted offense and falls below a profession's standard of care. Would you prefer that the school simply expel her?

Sorry, but that is an un-American attitude and quite frankly alarming. You want to brainwash her because you don't like what she believes about gays. Next will come, Muslims. Then Jews. Then Christians. Then Republicans Where does it stop? Pretty soon we all scream for Obama to be king for life and everyone is peachy-keen happy.

"live and let live".

Diversity training is very un-American.

Suppose I convince a large group of people that your beliefs about homosexuality were dangerous to the country. Do you think I should have the right to force you into a rehabilitation camp?

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

Immie, part of mastering the material is learning how to properly counsel homosexual students. The student herself claims she cannot do so in conformity with the profession's standard of care.

It has been repeatedly pointed out that you are wrong in regards to this. How many times are you going to try to use that?

Immie

 

[AllieBaba]

You are basing your description of the woman as a "homophobe" based entirely upon her stated religion.

Combined with your support of her expulsion from the degree program, it would appear you approve civil and human rights violations.

Go Madeline! You're a real winnah!

BTW, did we ever hear what degree you have that makes you an expert on this subject? Because given the fact you never use any facts or supply links to support your egregious claims, one hopes you have some experience of the requirements of the degree program?

No? Yes? Link? Answer?

 

[AllieBaba]

Immie, part of mastering the material is learning how to properly counsel homosexual students. The student herself claims she cannot do so in conformity with the profession's standard of care.

It has been repeatedly pointed out that you are wrong in regards to this. How many times are you going to try to use that?

Immie

She's either lying, or stupid.

I think perhaps both.

 

[Immanuel]

Jennifer Keeton, 24, has been enrolled in the College of Education's School Counselor masters degree program since fall 2009. She has expressed her Christian beliefs in class discussions and written assignments, but it was her views regarding gender and sexuality that irked faculty.

According to the filed complaint, "She has stated that she believes sexual behavior is the result of accountable personal choice rather than an inevitability deriving from deterministic forces. She also has affirmed binary male-female gender, with one or the other being fixed in each person at their creation, and not a social construct or individual choice subject to alteration by the person so created. Further, she has expressed her view that homosexuality is a 'lifestyle,' not a 'state of being.'"

Allie, get a grip and try to stay on-topic.

Why does everyone seem to keep avoiding this question?

Do we really want to force all professionals to the same kind of thinking? Are we really so afraid of someone else's point of view that we have to brainwash people who think differently than we do?

What if all scientists had to believe what every other scientist believed? If that were the case, then we would still believe that the earth was flat and the sun revolved around the earth.

Why do you guys keep avoiding those questions?

Are you all so afraid of Ms. Keeton's point of view that you will do everything to prevent her from moving forward with her career? It just may turn out as she grows, that she might actually save a few lives maybe even a homosexuals life.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

Allie, the question of freedom of speech for university professors is not, not, not the same as a question of allowing a homophobe to graduate and become a public school counselor. In the case of professors of other disciplines, something might be wrong. It is a question worth examining. But in the case of this student, she has announced (made an issue of the fact) that she cannot deal with a segment of the student population in a manner that conforms to the requirements of her hoped-for profession.

That is completely inaccurate Madeline. She never said any such thing.

Immie

Immie, we all have read the same damned article. It says what it says.

And she stated that she would keep her religious beliefs out of her profession.

Why do you think she is lying? Is it because she is a Christian or that you think of her as a "homophobe"?

Immie