I come forward, and lay on mee sword.

[dblack]

I keep telling everyone it's the insurance companies that are driving the costs. Those that jumped on the band wagon with Obamacare are set to make millions. Others that didn't are being phased out, it's another of those "reward" things this administration is so inclinded to do.

If you really want to decrease health care costs, do away with insurance entirely. Let the hospitals do their jobs and compete for our business. There is no law that says we can't travel to another state if we want a medical procedure.

Fire the whole lot of those lobbyist insurance people. Do away with them entirely and watch health care costs get back in line.

It's the insurance compaines, it's the insurance companies, it's the insurance companies. How many times do I have to say this?

Before everyone had insurance, good health care was available at reasonable costs!! Take out the middle man.

I think the prices would come way down, but what about catastrophic stuff like open heart surgery? What if the cost is up around, say $100k.

The Average middle class American would lose their shirt owing $100k. So that's the vast majority of the Country.

Then what?

The average middle class family doesn't come close to earning 100k in a year. If treating medical care like any other commodity was practical in any way, there would be a case study to look into.

I agree with doing away with or marginalizing the role of insurance companies....but that does not mean that I think negotiating with a hospital moments before a kidney transplant is a good idea.

Catastrophic coverage is the only sane way to use insurance, and the market was headed in that direction before ACA. People, especially younger people, were beginning to realize what a scam full coverage insurance is and were moving toward catastrophic coverage only, which would have cut insurance companies out of most of our health care transactions. THAT is why they finally acquiesced to health care "reform", and moved to use it as a means of preventing our escape.

 

[jon_berzerk]

I must admit, (and it was mostly for fun, mind you), that I often argued in favor of Obamacare because I thought that the fear-mongering was mostly nonsense.

Well, most of it is nonsense.


BUTTTT (big butttt, like Suzanne Boyle butttt) -

My wife's Boss, a Dentist (she's a hygienist) pays a (bigger) bulk of our Health Insurance than normal bosses do, which is why we're insured under my wife's office instead of mine.

About three years ago, he stopped paying 100% (which was fuggin awesome) and started making employees contribute some.

That's okay, we're juuUUuust about upper middle class, but not quite. So we're middle class a little higher mebbe.

AAAAaanyhoo - THIS YEAR, the cost is SKYROCKETING. And this is coming from me - the guy who thought this thing would likely work itself out. $85/week MORE. That's per WEEK. And employees are eating the entire cost. Do the math, that's $340 more a month. In perspective, that's 3 more cable/internet bills. That's ANOTHER car payment.

We are not RICH. We do not qualify for subsidies. This HURTS US. This HURTS our spending power, this LESSENS our consumerism. This DECREASES the value of life for my DAUGHTER.





So, ALWAYS devil's advocate what I did was - I assumed the HR/Office Manager was retarded and I hopped onto the exchange to see if she was missing a small-business subsidy or some such thing. NOPE. Any small business where the Average Salary is $55k or higher DOES NOT QUALIFY. Mind you, the DENTISTS working there highly skew the Average, but who's worrying about details.

So, I tried to see how costly it would be to get our OWN insurance, NON employer based. We are not under 4x the poverty level, and so we do not qualify for subsidies either. And the prices?

I-N-S-A-N-E.


So, as soon as you can tell me why it's GOOD thing that A NOT RICH family has their insurance go up an ENTIRE CAR PAYMENT, all at once and WITHOUT RECOURSE, you can defend this law to userhandle GT.

Until then, you are DEAD TO ME, Gangster.

everyday more and more folks are discovering this and similar

and say thanks to folks like you who

voted this guy in not once but twice

340 is cheap for a couple

the calculator says my premium for myself

will run 626 dollars a month

thanks a bunch

nothing i like more then the government

MANDATING what i have to buy

 

[G.T.]

I must admit, (and it was mostly for fun, mind you), that I often argued in favor of Obamacare because I thought that the fear-mongering was mostly nonsense.

Well, most of it is nonsense.


BUTTTT (big butttt, like Suzanne Boyle butttt) -

My wife's Boss, a Dentist (she's a hygienist) pays a (bigger) bulk of our Health Insurance than normal bosses do, which is why we're insured under my wife's office instead of mine.

About three years ago, he stopped paying 100% (which was fuggin awesome) and started making employees contribute some.

That's okay, we're juuUUuust about upper middle class, but not quite. So we're middle class a little higher mebbe.

AAAAaanyhoo - THIS YEAR, the cost is SKYROCKETING. And this is coming from me - the guy who thought this thing would likely work itself out. $85/week MORE. That's per WEEK. And employees are eating the entire cost. Do the math, that's $340 more a month. In perspective, that's 3 more cable/internet bills. That's ANOTHER car payment.

We are not RICH. We do not qualify for subsidies. This HURTS US. This HURTS our spending power, this LESSENS our consumerism. This DECREASES the value of life for my DAUGHTER.





So, ALWAYS devil's advocate what I did was - I assumed the HR/Office Manager was retarded and I hopped onto the exchange to see if she was missing a small-business subsidy or some such thing. NOPE. Any small business where the Average Salary is $55k or higher DOES NOT QUALIFY. Mind you, the DENTISTS working there highly skew the Average, but who's worrying about details.

So, I tried to see how costly it would be to get our OWN insurance, NON employer based. We are not under 4x the poverty level, and so we do not qualify for subsidies either. And the prices?

I-N-S-A-N-E.


So, as soon as you can tell me why it's GOOD thing that A NOT RICH family has their insurance go up an ENTIRE CAR PAYMENT, all at once and WITHOUT RECOURSE, you can defend this law to userhandle GT.

Until then, you are DEAD TO ME, Gangster.

everyday more and more folks are discovering this and similar

and say thanks to folks like you who

voted this guy in not once but twice

340 is cheap for a couple

the calculator says my premium for myself

will run 626 dollars a month

thanks a bunch

nothing i like more then the government

MANDATING what i have to buy

I didn't vote for Obama in 2012 braddaa, I quit participating in the political process in like.....2009 I think. Ish.

 

[jon_berzerk]

I must admit, (and it was mostly for fun, mind you), that I often argued in favor of Obamacare because I thought that the fear-mongering was mostly nonsense.

Well, most of it is nonsense.


BUTTTT (big butttt, like Suzanne Boyle butttt) -

My wife's Boss, a Dentist (she's a hygienist) pays a (bigger) bulk of our Health Insurance than normal bosses do, which is why we're insured under my wife's office instead of mine.

About three years ago, he stopped paying 100% (which was fuggin awesome) and started making employees contribute some.

That's okay, we're juuUUuust about upper middle class, but not quite. So we're middle class a little higher mebbe.

AAAAaanyhoo - THIS YEAR, the cost is SKYROCKETING. And this is coming from me - the guy who thought this thing would likely work itself out. $85/week MORE. That's per WEEK. And employees are eating the entire cost. Do the math, that's $340 more a month. In perspective, that's 3 more cable/internet bills. That's ANOTHER car payment.

We are not RICH. We do not qualify for subsidies. This HURTS US. This HURTS our spending power, this LESSENS our consumerism. This DECREASES the value of life for my DAUGHTER.





So, ALWAYS devil's advocate what I did was - I assumed the HR/Office Manager was retarded and I hopped onto the exchange to see if she was missing a small-business subsidy or some such thing. NOPE. Any small business where the Average Salary is $55k or higher DOES NOT QUALIFY. Mind you, the DENTISTS working there highly skew the Average, but who's worrying about details.

So, I tried to see how costly it would be to get our OWN insurance, NON employer based. We are not under 4x the poverty level, and so we do not qualify for subsidies either. And the prices?

I-N-S-A-N-E.


So, as soon as you can tell me why it's GOOD thing that A NOT RICH family has their insurance go up an ENTIRE CAR PAYMENT, all at once and WITHOUT RECOURSE, you can defend this law to userhandle GT.

Until then, you are DEAD TO ME, Gangster.

everyday more and more folks are discovering this and similar

and say thanks to folks like you who

voted this guy in not once but twice

340 is cheap for a couple

the calculator says my premium for myself

will run 626 dollars a month

thanks a bunch

nothing i like more then the government

MANDATING what i have to buy

I didn't vote for Obama in 2012 braddaa, I quit participating in the political process in like.....2009 I think. Ish.

well you have gotten paid back in spades for your effort

it is getting harder to find anyone who voted for obama

these days

--LOL

 

[G.T.]

everyday more and more folks are discovering this and similar

and say thanks to folks like you who

voted this guy in not once but twice

340 is cheap for a couple

the calculator says my premium for myself

will run 626 dollars a month

thanks a bunch

nothing i like more then the government

MANDATING what i have to buy

I didn't vote for Obama in 2012 braddaa, I quit participating in the political process in like.....2009 I think. Ish.

well you have gotten paid back in spades for your effort

it is getting harder to find anyone who voted for obama

these days

--LOL

I don't for one moment think it would have been better if the 2012 went the other way.

I'm thoroughly convinced our entire system needs to be tossed and started from scratch. Until then, y'all have fun blaming each other for shit y'all both are responsible for. & I'm not even mid western, tbh.

 

[jon_berzerk]

I didn't vote for Obama in 2012 braddaa, I quit participating in the political process in like.....2009 I think. Ish.

well you have gotten paid back in spades for your effort

it is getting harder to find anyone who voted for obama

these days

--LOL

I don't for one moment think it would have been better if the 2012 went the other way.

I'm thoroughly convinced our entire system needs to be tossed and started from scratch. Until then, y'all have fun blaming each other for shit y'all both are responsible for. & I'm not even mid western, tbh.

the solution is not to remain a neutral

i for one am doing my best to eject the likes of progressives in the Republican party

 

[G.T.]

well you have gotten paid back in spades for your effort

it is getting harder to find anyone who voted for obama

these days

--LOL

I don't for one moment think it would have been better if the 2012 went the other way.

I'm thoroughly convinced our entire system needs to be tossed and started from scratch. Until then, y'all have fun blaming each other for shit y'all both are responsible for. & I'm not even mid western, tbh.

the solution is not to remain a neutral

i for one am doing my best to eject the likes of progressives in the Republican party

I for one AM neutral.

 

[jon_berzerk]

I don't for one moment think it would have been better if the 2012 went the other way.

I'm thoroughly convinced our entire system needs to be tossed and started from scratch. Until then, y'all have fun blaming each other for shit y'all both are responsible for. & I'm not even mid western, tbh.

the solution is not to remain a neutral

i for one am doing my best to eject the likes of progressives in the Republican party

I for one AM neutral.

I for one AM neutral.

that is fine

but then do not complain about the cost of your health insurance

 

[G.T.]

the solution is not to remain a neutral

i for one am doing my best to eject the likes of progressives in the Republican party

I for one AM neutral.

I for one AM neutral.

that is fine

but then do not complain about the cost of your health insurance

I'll complain all that I want to. It's those who are not neutral but are a part of the failed "party" system that exacerbate these issues, because they don't cooperate, and they shill shill shill to the lowest denominator of their drooling constituents,............. not people who are so tired of the bullshit they throw their hands up until one day, their backs will be against a wall and all of you fraudulent partisan imposters will be tossed into the dumpsters of history.

 

[jon_berzerk]

I for one AM neutral.

I for one AM neutral.

that is fine

but then do not complain about the cost of your health insurance

I'll complain all that I want to. It's those who are not neutral but are a part of the failed "party" system that exacerbate these issues, because they don't cooperate, and they shill shill shill to the lowest denominator of their drooling constituents,............. not people who are so tired of the bullshit they throw their hands up until one day, their backs will be against a wall and all of you fraudulent partisan imposters will be tossed into the dumpsters of history.

wanting a smaller federal government

with controlled spending

and less intrusion into the private lives of its citizens

is fraudulent

--LOL

 

[Derideo_Te]

I keep telling everyone it's the insurance companies that are driving the costs. Those that jumped on the band wagon with Obamacare are set to make millions. Others that didn't are being phased out, it's another of those "reward" things this administration is so inclinded to do.

If you really want to decrease health care costs, do away with insurance entirely. Let the hospitals do their jobs and compete for our business. There is no law that says we can't travel to another state if we want a medical procedure.

Fire the whole lot of those lobbyist insurance people. Do away with them entirely and watch health care costs get back in line.

It's the insurance compaines, it's the insurance companies, it's the insurance companies. How many times do I have to say this?

Before everyone had insurance, good health care was available at reasonable costs!! Take out the middle man.

Eliminate the HMO's and healthcare costs will drop by 20% across the board. Their overhead and profit is completely unnecessary for the provision of healthcare. Medicare overhead is 2%-3%. Single payer makes the most sense from a fiscal conservative point of view. It lowers costs for corporations while providing a healthy workforce. By eliminating the need for corporations to have to negotiate with HMO's and deal with the ongoing administration they will have lower overheads. Corporate America would be better off as would all workers. The only downside is that Wall Street would no longer get to dictate growing profits for shareholders in that market sector. Seems like a very small sacrifice for the good of the nation and We the People.

 

[G.T.]

I for one AM neutral.

that is fine

but then do not complain about the cost of your health insurance

I'll complain all that I want to. It's those who are not neutral but are a part of the failed "party" system that exacerbate these issues, because they don't cooperate, and they shill shill shill to the lowest denominator of their drooling constituents,............. not people who are so tired of the bullshit they throw their hands up until one day, their backs will be against a wall and all of you fraudulent partisan imposters will be tossed into the dumpsters of history.

wanting a smaller federal government

with controlled spending

and less intrusion into the private lives of its citizens

is fraudulent

--LOL

platitudes don't work in reality

first of all, AUTOMATICALLY you have to define "small,"

and then you have to go through each and every piece of legislation EVER written, and do a cost ana;lysis that looks like this:

"If we eliminate X-program, it will cost us y-dollars, or yield z-dollars," and determine if it's more COSTLY to eliminate than it is to keep it and perhaps tighten up the fraud.



You cant just toss around platitudes and act like it's ingenious and pragmatic enough to run a country of 300+ million human souls.

 

[Sallow]

I keep telling everyone it's the insurance companies that are driving the costs. Those that jumped on the band wagon with Obamacare are set to make millions. Others that didn't are being phased out, it's another of those "reward" things this administration is so inclinded to do.

If you really want to decrease health care costs, do away with insurance entirely. Let the hospitals do their jobs and compete for our business. There is no law that says we can't travel to another state if we want a medical procedure.

Fire the whole lot of those lobbyist insurance people. Do away with them entirely and watch health care costs get back in line.

It's the insurance compaines, it's the insurance companies, it's the insurance companies. How many times do I have to say this?

Before everyone had insurance, good health care was available at reasonable costs!! Take out the middle man.

Eliminate the HMO's and healthcare costs will drop by 20% across the board. Their overhead and profit is completely unnecessary for the provision of healthcare. Medicare overhead is 2%-3%. Single payer makes the most sense from a fiscal conservative point of view. It lowers costs for corporations while providing a healthy workforce. By eliminating the need for corporations to have to negotiate with HMO's and deal with the ongoing administration they will have lower overheads. Corporate America would be better off as would all workers. The only downside is that Wall Street would no longer get to dictate growing profits for shareholders in that market sector. Seems like a very small sacrifice for the good of the nation and We the People.

Healthcare should not be a business.

It should be a right.

It's ridiculous the way we do this in this country.

Private corporations are self interested and have no business making life and death decisions about people.

 

[Sallow]

I keep telling everyone it's the insurance companies that are driving the costs. Those that jumped on the band wagon with Obamacare are set to make millions. Others that didn't are being phased out, it's another of those "reward" things this administration is so inclinded to do.

If you really want to decrease health care costs, do away with insurance entirely. Let the hospitals do their jobs and compete for our business. There is no law that says we can't travel to another state if we want a medical procedure.

Fire the whole lot of those lobbyist insurance people. Do away with them entirely and watch health care costs get back in line.

It's the insurance compaines, it's the insurance companies, it's the insurance companies. How many times do I have to say this?

Before everyone had insurance, good health care was available at reasonable costs!! Take out the middle man.

I think the prices would come way down, but what about catastrophic stuff like open heart surgery? What if the cost is up around, say $100k.

The Average middle class American would lose their shirt owing $100k. So that's the vast majority of the Country.

Then what?

NOW..you are starting to get it.

The biggest driver of poverty in this country, outside of racism, is catastrophic health events.

 

[G.T.]

I keep telling everyone it's the insurance companies that are driving the costs. Those that jumped on the band wagon with Obamacare are set to make millions. Others that didn't are being phased out, it's another of those "reward" things this administration is so inclinded to do.

If you really want to decrease health care costs, do away with insurance entirely. Let the hospitals do their jobs and compete for our business. There is no law that says we can't travel to another state if we want a medical procedure.

Fire the whole lot of those lobbyist insurance people. Do away with them entirely and watch health care costs get back in line.

It's the insurance compaines, it's the insurance companies, it's the insurance companies. How many times do I have to say this?

Before everyone had insurance, good health care was available at reasonable costs!! Take out the middle man.

I think the prices would come way down, but what about catastrophic stuff like open heart surgery? What if the cost is up around, say $100k.

The Average middle class American would lose their shirt owing $100k. So that's the vast majority of the Country.

Then what?

NOW..you are starting to get it.

The biggest driver of poverty in this country, outside of racism, is catastrophic health events.

that's not news to me, bro

 

[naturegirl]

Wait, hold on just one minute. If you needed heart surgery or a kidney transplant there are other ways to pay for it. If you take out the middle man, that surgery wouldn't be nearly as expensive and you can opt to purchase your own catastrophic insurance.

Yea, you might have to give up a month or two of internet or cable but you can make payments, that's exactly how we used to do it before insurance took over health care.

Did you know that as long as you make payments as agreed to a hospital or doctor, they can't dunn you report you to the credit agencies or call you.

People can go out and buy 40-50 thousand dollar cars and pay them off, why not hospital bills? We have been brainwashed into thinking we HAVE to have insurance.