I Don't Think the Stimulus is Working

[Samson]

No, they're in Tom Delays.

Does Delay represent California now?

 

[Wry Catcher]

There was no Tom Delay or Abramoff or his friends involved in the bailouts or stimulus package. But by all means enjoy your red herrings.

If Obama and the Democrats saw Iraq and Afghanistan as an unacceptable drain on the treasury, they could have defunded the war and brought everybody home the last ten days in January, 2009. It is now 17 months later and they have increased funding.

Now how about showing us that we're getting our money's worth out of Tarp and the Stimulus Package as that is the subject of this thread. I'm sure many would like to be reassured that we aren't pouring hundreds of billions of dollars futilely down a rathole.

The post was in response to this question: "How can anyone say the stimulous is working if you don't have any idea where the money has gone???[/"

We do know where the money is going, at least those of us who read and stay abreast of current events. Funds to retrofit the Bay Bridge and money to complete a fourth bore (tunnel) connecting the East Bay to San Francsico & Silicon Valley are a couple of obvious projects.
Other projects are underway throughout the Bay Area, and I suppose in your area too. Maybe you aren't up to speed, or maybe you'd rather play the ain't it awful Obama sucks card which seems to be the policy of elected Republicans.
My point as to wasted dollars, btw, is not the non sequitur you hope it was. Under the prior administration tens of billions of dollars a month was spent on a war of choice, and some billions converted into arms and munitions disappeared.
That is relevent, exposing the hypocrisy of RWers is not only fair, but necessary if we are to avoid future mistakes.

Would those two projects be in Speaker Pelosi's district?

Nope, the Bay Bridge section is in Alameda County, the tunnel connects Contra Costa Co. and Alameda Co.

 

[Samson]

The post was in response to this question: "How can anyone say the stimulous is working if you don't have any idea where the money has gone???"

We do know where the money is going, at least those of us who read and stay abreast of current events.

(See earlier postings)

The Miami Herald must not be reading and staying "abreast of current events."

Raymond Yee, a lecturer at the University of California Berkeley's School of Information also needs to stay abreast of current events.

Everyone but Wry Catcher is ignoring where the stimulous money is going.

I know where some of the money is going, correct. The detractors suggest the act is filled with fraud and waste and only provides temporary jobs. Fraud and waste exist, of course, and always have, as has the hypocrisy of those who whine today and ignored the fraud and waste of past administrations.
And I don't suppose I'm the only one who knows where some of the money is going, but it's real glib to use superlatives, isn't it.

If by "glib" you mean "accurate" then yes.

Obama said he would be accountable for ALL the spending of The Stimulous.

So much for "Change," huh.

 

[Wry Catcher]

No, they're in Tom Delays.

Does Delay represent California now?

Nope. Delay represnts Delay, as he always has.

 

[Wry Catcher]

(See earlier postings)

The Miami Herald must not be reading and staying "abreast of current events."

Raymond Yee, a lecturer at the University of California Berkeley's School of Information also needs to stay abreast of current events.

Everyone but Wry Catcher is ignoring where the stimulous money is going.

I know where some of the money is going, correct. The detractors suggest the act is filled with fraud and waste and only provides temporary jobs. Fraud and waste exist, of course, and always have, as has the hypocrisy of those who whine today and ignored the fraud and waste of past administrations.
And I don't suppose I'm the only one who knows where some of the money is going, but it's real glib to use superlatives, isn't it.

If by "glib" you mean "accurate" then yes.

Obama said he would be accountable for ALL the spending of The Stimulous.

So much for "Change," huh.

Accountable, sure, and my hope is those who engage in fraud, abuse and waste will be brought to justice and punished. If Obama lets crooks "Scooter" off free, I'll vote for another candadate in the future.
And no, I used glib in the usual sense I do with your posts.

 

[Samson]

No, they're in Tom Delays.

Does Delay represent California now?

Nope. Delay represnts Delay, as he always has.

Had I not seen this myself, I wouldn't have believed it:

You guys really are looking more than a little desperate when you drag up Tom Delay after its been 4 years since he represented anyone.

 

[Sky Dancer]

No, they're in Tom Delays.

Does Delay represent California now?

I was being a smartass. Delay was as corrupt as they come.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Does Delay represent California now?

Nope. Delay represnts Delay, as he always has.

Had I not seen this myself, I wouldn't have believed it:

You guys really are looking more than a little desperate when you drag up Tom Delay after its been 4 years since he represented anyone.

He never represented anyone but himself. And, he's still under indictment (I wonder, who is paying his legal fees?)

 

[Sky Dancer]

Tom Delay. Just never liked the guy.

 

[Samson]

Nope. Delay represnts Delay, as he always has.

Had I not seen this myself, I wouldn't have believed it:

You guys really are looking more than a little desperate when you drag up Tom Delay after its been 4 years since he represented anyone.

He never represented anyone but himself. And, he's still under indictment (I wonder, who is paying his legal fees?)

Maybe you could ask Raymond Yee, a lecturer at the University of California Berkeley's School of Information, and in exchange, you could let him know how Stimulous Funds are being spent in the Bay Area.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Had I not seen this myself, I wouldn't have believed it:

You guys really are looking more than a little desperate when you drag up Tom Delay after its been 4 years since he represented anyone.

He never represented anyone but himself. And, he's still under indictment (I wonder, who is paying his legal fees?)

Maybe you could ask Raymond Yee, a lecturer at the University of California Berkeley's School of Information, and in exchange, you could let him know how Stimulous Funds are being spent in the Bay Area.[/QUOTE

Sure, post his phone number.

 

[saveliberty]

Maybe you could ask Raymond Yee, a lecturer at the University of California Berkeley's School of Information, and in exchange, you could let him know how Stimulous Funds are being spent in the Bay Area.

Sure, post his phone number.

How to Reach Me (Raymond Yee)
Office: 6 South Hall
Office Hours: MW 2-3
Email: rdhyee@ischool
Telephone: (510) 643-4517

 

[Foxfyre]

I assume under this reasoning no one can say the Occupation of Iraq is working, given $ billions have gone into a black hole.
I wonder about the outrage of waste, fraud and abuse now; it seems waste, fraud and abuse has been SOP for a very long time. BTW, where is Tom Delay and those friends of Jack Abramoff in this discussion?
Hypocrisy, a Republican Traditional Value.

There was no Tom Delay or Abramoff or his friends involved in the bailouts or stimulus package. But by all means enjoy your red herrings.

If Obama and the Democrats saw Iraq and Afghanistan as an unacceptable drain on the treasury, they could have defunded the war and brought everybody home the last ten days in January, 2009. It is now 17 months later and they have increased funding.

Now how about showing us that we're getting our money's worth out of Tarp and the Stimulus Package as that is the subject of this thread. I'm sure many would like to be reassured that we aren't pouring hundreds of billions of dollars futilely down a rathole.

The post was in response to this question: "How can anyone say the stimulous is working if you don't have any idea where the money has gone???[/"

We do know where the money is going, at least those of us who read and stay abreast of current events. Funds to retrofit the Bay Bridge and money to complete a fourth bore (tunnel) connecting the East Bay to San Francsico & Silicon Valley are a couple of obvious projects.
Other projects are underway throughout the Bay Area, and I suppose in your area too. Maybe you aren't up to speed, or maybe you'd rather play the ain't it awful Obama sucks card which seems to be the policy of elected Republicans.
My point as to wasted dollars, btw, is not the non sequitur you hope it was. Under the prior administration tens of billions of dollars a month was spent on a war of choice, and some billions converted into arms and munitions disappeared.
That is relevent, exposing the hypocrisy of RWers is not only fair, but necessary if we are to avoid future mistakes.

But you see, it is this kind of thing that drives me crazy. You have hundreds of millions of dollars that are supposed to stimulate the economy going for a couple of local, temporary projects. Okay the bore will take a few years to build, but it is pork just the same. Not stimulus. It won't create a single job anywhere else but right there, won't help anybody in any other state, and it is government jobs, not private sector jobs that relieve the stress everywhere else.

Those two projects are great projects, but not something that had to be done immediately. The tunnel for instance, I understand has been the planning stage for at least a decade. It couldn't have waited a bit longer until the economy stabilized and the treasury wasn't bare?

The ONLY thing that is going to get things moving is to create real long term private sector jobs that pay their own way and increase the GDP, not short term government jobs that the taxpayers fund, that increase the deficit, and increase the drain on everybody's financial resources.

The market is tanking again today upon news that productivity has dropped to its lowest level in two years with no probable recvovery in sight.

 

[Care4all]

from my understanding, the money was divvied out to each state. In my state, money is being spent on Acadia National Park, on keeping the State govt employees in a job, including our teachers, in various road projects and dilapidated old bridge repair, and on many "green" projects and tax relief for installing solar, or wind or geothermal, and on purchasing energy star appliances, and energy efficient wood stoves, from both federal rebates and State rebates and a number of other projects....it definitely kept many State gvt employees in a job and not on the unemployment line....

which I am not certain it was good or bad....keeping the state gvt employees, employed, but if forced to commit to it being good or bad, for the moment....at this time in this recession, I would have to say it was a good thing, not adding more people to unemployment and at least having these people, spending, which has kept businesses opened....was and is good for now.

 

[Douger]

Get some more K-Y. You'll be feeling it soon enough.

 

[MaggieMae]

I went there and cannot find anything to support your ridiculous assertations.

You're either dishonest, stupid, or both.

And you're a lazy ass. You DO know what that little "finger" is for, I hope. You point and click.

REPOSTED just for the guy who flunked Computers For Dummies:
Tools & Data - ProPublica

Its not there, or you could quote it.

Obviously, you haven't a clue what you're talking about. I doubt you've even been to Recovery.gov, but have rather been drinking cool-aid designed to make you parrot:

"Go to Recovery.com, its all there"
"Go to Recovery.com, its all there"
"Go to Recovery.com, its all there"
"Go to Recovery.com, its all there"

Quote WHAT? I don't know what more you want me to do? Copy every single project? Fuck that. Do it yourself. I did, however, link another page, which I will now detail how to find "recipients."

Stimulus Database: See Which Contractors Are Cashing In - ProPublica

Click on Projects by State (left side of screen), which will bring up a map. Click on a state, then click on a city (or leave "select all"), and scroll about two inches further below that instruction box and you'll see a complete listing of RECIPIENTS, and corresponding information.

OR -- You can just ask FoxFyre for links to one of her gazillion "watchdog" groups out to make sure the entire program at least takes on the impression of failure.

 

[Foxfyre]

from my understanding, the money was divvied out to each state. In my state, money is being spent on Acadia National Park, on keeping the State govt employees in a job, including our teachers, in various road projects and dilapidated old bridge repair, and on many "green" projects and tax relief for installing solar, or wind or geothermal, and on purchasing energy star appliances, and energy efficient wood stoves, from both federal rebates and State rebates and a number of other projects....it definitely kept many State gvt employees in a job and not on the unemployment line....

which I am not certain it was good or bad....keeping the state gvt employees, employed, but if forced to commit to it being good or bad, for the moment....at this time in this recession, I would have to say it was a good thing, not adding more people to unemployment and at least having these people, spending, which has kept businesses opened....was and is good for now.

Yeah I know. I'm as softhearted as the next person and when you see friends and loved ones out of work, or just see people you can relate to on the evening news, you want to help them by any means necessary. But softheartedness and feel good just won't cut it for the long haul and short term one time government fixes only postpone the inevitable and, in my opinion, delay real solutions via real recovery. Not to mention the ones we are currently utilizing are bankrupting the country.

So we have the dilemma of not wanting people to hurt at all versus allowing short term pain in order to avoid long term pain.

 

[MaggieMae]

I'm willing to bet there isn't a single con who posts here who has ever gone to Recovery.gov. They believe it's all lies. They also won't read the extensive analysis done by Greenbeard. That would mean their beliefs that Obama & Co sit in the White House and dream up Socialist/Communist plots in order to form a new social order might not be true. They might have to admit that, in fact, they had no choice.

Wrong. I go there about every other month. Sort of a watchdog function. I wouldn't call it lies. More like, enhanced projection. Totally off base on the Obama & Co. siting in the White House dreaming up a new social order. They do it out at the basketball court and golf course silly.

Finally, I find the, "they had no choice" comment off the charts. Often doing nothing and letting the cycle take its course is a possibility. Changing policy and holding the purse strings is another. No choices indeed.

OMBwatch is apparently working directly with the Obama Administration to help improve the site. OMBwatch gave the information on Recovery.Gov a scathing report for misleading information and inaccuracies in the fall last year, but more recently says they are doing better with about 60% of the previous wrong information now being corrected.

But other watchdogs are noting things that aren't really spelled out on Recovery.gov such as this:

President Obama is earmarking $1 billion in Stimulus money “to build FutureGen 2.0, a clean coal repowering program and carbon dioxide (CO2) storage network” in his home state of Illinois. According to a Department of Energy press release, this billion is being provided to ”FutureGen Alliance, Ameren Energy Resources, Babcock & Wilcox, and Air Liquide Process & Costruction, Inc. to build FutureGen 2.0, a clean coal repowering program and carbon dioxide (CO2) storage network.” That is right — $1 billion. This is the largest earmark of money in U.S. history and they are taking money right out of your pocket to pay for it.

The Department of Energy projects 1,900 jobs as a result of $1,000,000,000 in new spending. This works out to $526,315.79 of your tax dollars spent per job. A half million dollars per job seems to be a bad deal for the taxpayer.
Obama Earmarks $1 Billion in Stimulus Money for Company in Illinois | RedState

That's a ridiculous analysis. To have people believe that the $1 billion will ONLY be spent on new employees is comic book crap, but then I guess that's the kind of reader Redstate gets...our new Gullible Nation sucks it up as accurate although even on its face, it's absurd.

That said, you don't think that's money well spent as a viable alternative energy solution? Would your "watchdogs" be complaining if the $1 billion went to Exxon Mobil to upgrade a new oil refinery?

 

[Sky Dancer]

Here's how the money was supposed to be spent in California. I have a lot of friends who work for the county and they say the state government is completely dysfunctional.

The money is not getting down to the county level.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/02/world/americas/02iht-states.1.19860360.html

 

[MaggieMae]

And meanwhile the beat goes on despite how many times Maggie can cite Recovery.gov

U.S. Sen. Tom Coburn wants to shed light on the wasteful spending in the federal stimulus and his list includes projects in his home state of Oklahoma.

One of the 100 examples Coburn has compiled is $1.5 million in “free” stimulus money for a new wastewater treatment plant resulting in higher utility costs for residents of Perkins, Okla. Another is $1.15 million for installation of a new guardrail for the non-existent Optima Lake in Oklahoma. There is no lake - it’s a dry hole. . . .


. . . .Dr. Coburn said Earl Devaney, head of the Recovery Act Accountability and Transparency (RAT) Board, estimates that at least $55 billion of stimulus funds may be lost to waste, fraud and abuse. However, the final number will likely be much higher. If stimulus funds do not promote economic growth, history may indicate that the vast majority of stimulate dollars would have been better off staying in taxpayers’ pockets, Coburn said.

Besides the two Oklahoma projects, Coburn emphasized the following eight projects:

• $1 billion for FutureGen in Mattoon, Illinois is the “biggest earmark of all time” for a power plant that may never work.

• $15 million for “shovel-ready” repairs to little-used bridges in rural Wisconsin are given priority over widely used bridges that are structurally deficient.

• $800,000 for little-used John Murtha Airport in Johnstown, Pennsylvania airport to repave a back-up runway; the “airport for nobody” has already received tens of millions in taxpayer dollars.

• $3.4 million for a wildlife “eco-passage” in Florida to take animals safely under a busy roadway.

• A Nevada non-profit gets a $2 million weatherization contract after recently being fired for same type of work.

• Nearly $10 million to renovate an abandoned train station that hasn’t been used in 30 years.

• Ten thousand dead people will get stimulus checks, but the Social Security Administration blames a tough deadline.

• Town of Union, New York, encouraged to spend a $578,000 grant it did not request for a homelessness problem it claims it does not have. . . .
Wasteful spending highlights the list of U.S. stimulus projects | Tulsa Beacon

We deserve better.

Once again, why won't Coburn (and you) go on the attack against those GOVERNORS if you believe those projects are a waste? Nah, that would be too transparent and might damage some Republican governor's credibility. Better to just lay it out there and blame Obama for picking boondoggle projects. Who will be the wiser? You read it on the Internet, so it must be true.

I'm reminded of the block grants to states doled out by Homeland Security to upgrade their security and first reponse systems. Countless millions were spent on such things as new bowling shirts for the East Podunk Fire Department team, a second brand new fire truck for a town of only 500 people. But you had to dig in the back pages of news PRINT to find that stuff, so it was not well known. But accepted and paid for by taxpayers, nonetheless, no questions asked.