I have a nazi-like idea in regard to mooches

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Tax expenditures account for $1.2 trillion a year. That's two thirds of what the government collects in revenue!

We are talking about SERIOUS mooching, kids.

These moochers are soaking up 2/3 of the revenues! Just how big a pair of blinders do you have to buy to willfully blind yourself to that? I mean, you practically have to grab your eyeballs and pop them out of your skull and stab knives into your eardrums to avoid it.


I get that this is really about finding an excuse to put the poor into concentration camps, but COME ON!!

Anyone else wish this idiot would shut the fuck up with his "people who use legal ways of lowering their taxes is a moocher" bullshit?

 

[Discombobulated]

Welfare should be unpleasant, yes? People need an incentive to work towards getting off of it.

So, my father in law and I were talking about solutions to all of the inner city crime, violence, high school drop-out and failure rate, women who cannot afford to but continue to have babies - - - - -

And it struck me that it seems to be getting worse, and all of this Partisan rivalry blah blah isn't offering up any solutions to the problem so here's one.

Skip ebt cards.
Skip section 8 living.

Let's make camps. Sort of like internment camps (except not really). If you want/need any Government assistance in a rough time, or if you're just a mooch in General, you'd have to go to the Camp and receive it or else fend for yourself and leave the taxpayers out of it. Within said camp, and with all of the savings for ebt, section 8, etc - - - - - there would be very bland, very minimalist and awful tasting food provided for you by the taxpayer. The only goal here is to keep you alive, not pleasurable eating.

There will be cots, and duties for the able. No cable. No celly. There will be phones, mind you. But lines to wait and use them for a certain amount of time.

Here's the uncomfortable kicker.

Once you come to Uncle Sam for help, you cannot leave to go on back out of the camp and become a gang-banger, druggie, drop-out, etc.

In order to leave, you need to stay in school or actively be seeking a job. Otherwise, you're held. By force.

Sounds like that's not freedom, right? It is. You are completely free to choose to go to school and get out. You are completely free to choose to actively search for employment. You are not free to be a leech.

I would obviously have to think of loopholes for the legitimately disabled, or the worker who works in good faith and still cannot make ends meet. For those, it is society's burden to develop a system where the worst of jobs provide at least some minimal quality of life. I don't support a Country without that as its goal, quality of life.





I don't see the current memes of throwing more money at education working. I don't see the current system of allowing ebt cards to buy anything under the sun as working. I don't see child tax credits for men and women who won't work but have continuous babies, as being a legitimate solution to Anything.

How about rich folks who stash their money off shore to avoid paying taxes? Can we put them in a camp too? Because those people are a real detriment to our nation. What should we do about those free loaders?

 

[g5000]

Tax expenditures account for $1.2 trillion a year. That's two thirds of what the government collects in revenue!

We are talking about SERIOUS mooching, kids.

These moochers are soaking up 2/3 of the revenues! Just how big a pair of blinders do you have to buy to willfully blind yourself to that? I mean, you practically have to grab your eyeballs and pop them out of your skull and stab knives into your eardrums to avoid it.


I get that this is really about finding an excuse to put the poor into concentration camps, but COME ON!!

Anyone else wish this idiot would shut the fuck up with his "people who use legal ways of lowering their taxes is a moocher" bullshit?

They force people to pay higher tax rates. Simple fact. That is mooching. Forcing other people to pay more taxes so you can get a deduction, credit, or exemption is mooching.

They are also government social behavioral experiments. The government openly admits this.

I'm sorry to inform you that you aren't a conservative. Nor are you smarter than the average bear. Not even smarter than a flea, sadly.

 

[ricechickie]

oh so the plan says that the parents cant spend time with the kids?

weird I don't remember writing that

and also if a kid is in daycare 60hrs, and the avg. night of sleep is 7.5 hours, that's almost 60 hours left wake-time the kid is with the parents. breakfast, dinner, getting dressed, doing homework, teaching the kids many great things in life during that time

besides - alotta households still just work 40 hours, leaving 75 hours the parent is with their kids awake-time. and that's if both parents work the same schedule, in a 2 parent household

Little children generally need more than 7.5 hours sleep, but ok.

In all that awake time you listed, parents CAN be interacting with their children, or they CAN be simply shuffling them through the routine. If they're exhausted from a full-time work week, perhaps with overtime to avoid your "camp," what kind of interaction do you think they're going to have with the kiddies?

Which points out what I said before - there are too many variables to point to one kind of program as a cure-all. Most people are doing the best they can in their lives, and if they are asked to do more than they can, that is where the sense of despair comes from.

I know it's very fashionable to say that poor people are really just lazy and don't have incentive, but the reality is that all those success stories of people who were born poor and "made it big" are extraordinary people. And we can't expect everyone to be extraordinary. I want ordinary people (being one myself) to have a decent standard of living from a decent amount of work and ambition.

 

[G.T.]

Welfare should be unpleasant, yes? People need an incentive to work towards getting off of it.

So, my father in law and I were talking about solutions to all of the inner city crime, violence, high school drop-out and failure rate, women who cannot afford to but continue to have babies - - - - -

And it struck me that it seems to be getting worse, and all of this Partisan rivalry blah blah isn't offering up any solutions to the problem so here's one.

Skip ebt cards.
Skip section 8 living.

Let's make camps. Sort of like internment camps (except not really). If you want/need any Government assistance in a rough time, or if you're just a mooch in General, you'd have to go to the Camp and receive it or else fend for yourself and leave the taxpayers out of it. Within said camp, and with all of the savings for ebt, section 8, etc - - - - - there would be very bland, very minimalist and awful tasting food provided for you by the taxpayer. The only goal here is to keep you alive, not pleasurable eating.

There will be cots, and duties for the able. No cable. No celly. There will be phones, mind you. But lines to wait and use them for a certain amount of time.

Here's the uncomfortable kicker.

Once you come to Uncle Sam for help, you cannot leave to go on back out of the camp and become a gang-banger, druggie, drop-out, etc.

In order to leave, you need to stay in school or actively be seeking a job. Otherwise, you're held. By force.

Sounds like that's not freedom, right? It is. You are completely free to choose to go to school and get out. You are completely free to choose to actively search for employment. You are not free to be a leech.

I would obviously have to think of loopholes for the legitimately disabled, or the worker who works in good faith and still cannot make ends meet. For those, it is society's burden to develop a system where the worst of jobs provide at least some minimal quality of life. I don't support a Country without that as its goal, quality of life.





I don't see the current memes of throwing more money at education working. I don't see the current system of allowing ebt cards to buy anything under the sun as working. I don't see child tax credits for men and women who won't work but have continuous babies, as being a legitimate solution to Anything.

How about rich folks who stash their money off shore to avoid paying taxes? Can we put them in a camp too? Because those people are a real detriment to our nation. What should we do about those free loaders?

no, we can simply make whatever nefarious thing theyre doing illegal and then prosecute

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Wrong, The EBT card is linked to ALL benefits a person receives, so if they get SSI and TIA and SNAP, well obviously they can use that card for more than food. So the CARD can certainly be used to buy booze, smokes, go to strip clubs, but the SNAP benefit portion can not.

I stand corrected, then.

I'm not saying that makes it any more right. I personally believe welfare recipients should be tested for drugs/alcohol/tobacco , but the notion that SNAP benefits are paying for such is incorrect. Such a purchase would automatically be rejected at the register.

"The Card can be used at EBT participating ATM machines and Point of Sale (POS) terminals throughout the state."

Electronic Benefits Transfer EBT OTDA

What's your point?

That despite the transactions you're describing as deniable, they are not deniable when using CASH, from the same card.

Your ORIGINAL claim was that SNAP benefits were being used to buy smokes and booze. That is INCORRECT and that is all I claimed.

 

[G.T.]

oh so the plan says that the parents cant spend time with the kids?

weird I don't remember writing that

and also if a kid is in daycare 60hrs, and the avg. night of sleep is 7.5 hours, that's almost 60 hours left wake-time the kid is with the parents. breakfast, dinner, getting dressed, doing homework, teaching the kids many great things in life during that time

besides - alotta households still just work 40 hours, leaving 75 hours the parent is with their kids awake-time. and that's if both parents work the same schedule, in a 2 parent household

Little children generally need more than 7.5 hours sleep, but ok.

In all that awake time you listed, parents CAN be interacting with their children, or they CAN be simply shuffling them through the routine. If they're exhausted from a full-time work week, perhaps with overtime to avoid your "camp," what kind of interaction do you think they're going to have with the kiddies?

Which points out what I said before - there are too many variables to point to one kind of program as a cure-all. Most people are doing the best they can in their lives, and if they are asked to do more than they can, that is where the sense of despair comes from.

I know it's very fashionable to say that poor people are really just lazy and don't have incentive, but the reality is that all those success stories of people who were born poor and "made it big" are extraordinary people. And we can't expect everyone to be extraordinary. I want ordinary people (being one myself) to have a decent standard of living from a decent amount of work and ambition.

your last paragraph doesn't apply to me


the ones before it, its really a case by case basis depending on the parent but to say you "cant" have your kid in daycare for long and still be a good parent isn't true

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

oh so the plan says that the parents cant spend time with the kids?

weird I don't remember writing that

and also if a kid is in daycare 60hrs, and the avg. night of sleep is 7.5 hours, that's almost 60 hours left wake-time the kid is with the parents. breakfast, dinner, getting dressed, doing homework, teaching the kids many great things in life during that time

besides - alotta households still just work 40 hours, leaving 75 hours the parent is with their kids awake-time. and that's if both parents work the same schedule, in a 2 parent household

Little children generally need more than 7.5 hours sleep, but ok.

In all that awake time you listed, parents CAN be interacting with their children, or they CAN be simply shuffling them through the routine. If they're exhausted from a full-time work week, perhaps with overtime to avoid your "camp," what kind of interaction do you think they're going to have with the kiddies?

Which points out what I said before - there are too many variables to point to one kind of program as a cure-all. Most people are doing the best they can in their lives, and if they are asked to do more than they can, that is where the sense of despair comes from.

I know it's very fashionable to say that poor people are really just lazy and don't have incentive, but the reality is that all those success stories of people who were born poor and "made it big" are extraordinary people. And we can't expect everyone to be extraordinary. I want ordinary people (being one myself) to have a decent standard of living from a decent amount of work and ambition.

being ordinary would be the pits. No reason to punish the plebians even more.

 

[G.T.]

Wrong, The EBT card is linked to ALL benefits a person receives, so if they get SSI and TIA and SNAP, well obviously they can use that card for more than food. So the CARD can certainly be used to buy booze, smokes, go to strip clubs, but the SNAP benefit portion can not.

I stand corrected, then.

I'm not saying that makes it any more right. I personally believe welfare recipients should be tested for drugs/alcohol/tobacco , but the notion that SNAP benefits are paying for such is incorrect. Such a purchase would automatically be rejected at the register.

"The Card can be used at EBT participating ATM machines and Point of Sale (POS) terminals throughout the state."

Electronic Benefits Transfer EBT OTDA

What's your point?

That despite the transactions you're describing as deniable, they are not deniable when using CASH, from the same card.

Your ORIGINAL claim was that SNAP benefits were being used to buy smokes and booze. That is INCORRECT and that is all I claimed.

you can use your SNAP to withdraw $$ from an ATM and buy booze


go here

http://otda.ny.gov/programs/publications/5004.pdf
go down to the part that talk about cash withdrawals, at atm's.

see how you can withdraw both cash benefits AND snap money?

therein is the issue.

 

[ricechickie]

being ordinary would be the pits. No reason to punish the plebians even more.

Don't be jealous. Someday, you might make it to ordinary.

 

[Discombobulated]

no, we can simply make whatever nefarious thing theyre doing illegal and then prosecute

How do you prosecute people who have corporate lobbyists to write our laws and make all the rules? I'm afraid we have no alternative but to put them in a camp.

 

[ricechickie]

your last paragraph doesn't apply to me


the ones before it, its really a case by case basis depending on the parent but to say you "cant" have your kid in daycare for long and still be a good parent isn't true

That was to counter your idea that someone who doesn't work can't be a good parent.

 

[G.T.]

no, we can simply make whatever nefarious thing theyre doing illegal and then prosecute

How do you prosecute people who have corporate lobbyists to write our laws and make all the rules? I'm afraid we have no alternative but to put them in a camp.

I disagree that that's the only alternative.

 

[G.T.]

your last paragraph doesn't apply to me


the ones before it, its really a case by case basis depending on the parent but to say you "cant" have your kid in daycare for long and still be a good parent isn't true

That was to counter your idea that someone who doesn't work can't be a good parent.

which I never said
so, ughh

 

[g5000]

Top 10 Reasons to Scrap the Code Abolish the IRS 8211 War Room

3. Tax Expenditures Nearly Cancel Out Income Tax Receipts.

Major contributing factors to the complexity of the tax code are all of the loopholes, credits, and subsidies contained within it. These provisions are called tax expenditures and, according to TAS and Joint Committee on Taxation, these expenditures will be worth $1.09 trillion for 2013. At the same time, the IRS is slated to collect $1.36 trillion in personal income taxes. The previously mentioned TAS report estimates that, by scrapping the current tax code and all of the tax expenditures therein, Congress could reduce the individual income tax by 44 percent across the board and still collect the same amount of revenue.

An Overview of Tax Expenditures

What makes tax expenditures similar to spending programs is that they are special tax provisions that are designed to accomplish some social or economic goal unrelated to equitable tax collection. They are like "entitlements" because they are not subject to annual budget appropriations, but are paid out to any business or individual that meets the eligibility rules, regardless of the total cost.

In response to public outrage over corporate tax freeloading and high-income tax shelters, Congress and President Reagan closed loopholes and lowered income tax rates dramatically.

If all current tax expenditures were suddenly repealed, for example, the deficit could be eliminated and income tax rates could be reduced across the board by about 25%.

 

[g5000]

Banning tax expenditures is a conservative cause, dummies!

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Tax expenditures account for $1.2 trillion a year. That's two thirds of what the government collects in revenue!

We are talking about SERIOUS mooching, kids.

These moochers are soaking up 2/3 of the revenues! Just how big a pair of blinders do you have to buy to willfully blind yourself to that? I mean, you practically have to grab your eyeballs and pop them out of your skull and stab knives into your eardrums to avoid it.


I get that this is really about finding an excuse to put the poor into concentration camps, but COME ON!!

Anyone else wish this idiot would shut the fuck up with his "people who use legal ways of lowering their taxes is a moocher" bullshit?

They force people to pay higher tax rates. Simple fact. That is mooching. Forcing other people to pay more taxes so you can get a deduction, credit, or exemption is mooching.

They are also government social behavioral experiments. The government openly admits this.

I'm sorry to inform you that you aren't a conservative. Nor are you smarter than the average bear. Not even smarter than a flea, sadly.

They do not FORCE anyone to do any such thing. THe government uses that as an excuse to tax people more.


Who the hell, besides the government could POSSIBLY claim that money they never had is lost revenue? LOL

Can you imagine if I had a slow night at dinner at my restaurant and a couple came in and I gave them a menu and said I'm sorry but I have to add 10% to my menu prices tonight, because revenue wasn't what I expected it to be "

 

[g5000]

Conservatives are united in their belief that government spends much too much and that spending ought to be cut sharply. But they almost universally ignore de facto spending through the Tax Code even though many tax provisions are functionally identical to spending. These “tax expenditures” not only hemorrhage revenue unnecessarily, but they distort private decision-making, create unfairness and reduce economic growth.

Spending Through The Tax Code - Forbes

 

[G.T.]

Banning tax expenditures is a conservative cause, dummies!

Not that I disagree, but when you eliminate tax expenditures what happens to those who then have to pay what they weren't paying before?

and their employees?

And the economy?

And does the 25%, an overall reduction, wash away those implications, above --->? Has this been studied? genuinely curious, that's all.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Wrong, The EBT card is linked to ALL benefits a person receives, so if they get SSI and TIA and SNAP, well obviously they can use that card for more than food. So the CARD can certainly be used to buy booze, smokes, go to strip clubs, but the SNAP benefit portion can not.

I stand corrected, then.

I'm not saying that makes it any more right. I personally believe welfare recipients should be tested for drugs/alcohol/tobacco , but the notion that SNAP benefits are paying for such is incorrect. Such a purchase would automatically be rejected at the register.

"The Card can be used at EBT participating ATM machines and Point of Sale (POS) terminals throughout the state."

Electronic Benefits Transfer EBT OTDA

What's your point?

That despite the transactions you're describing as deniable, they are not deniable when using CASH, from the same card.

Your ORIGINAL claim was that SNAP benefits were being used to buy smokes and booze. That is INCORRECT and that is all I claimed.

you can use your SNAP to withdraw $$ from an ATM and buy booze


go here

http://otda.ny.gov/programs/publications/5004.pdf
go down to the part that talk about cash withdrawals, at atm's.

see how you can withdraw both cash benefits AND snap money?

therein is the issue.

For the last time you god damned moron you can NOT use SNAP for anything but fucking food.


you can use your EBT card if you get benefits such as SSI or TIA or something that allows for other purchases or even cash withdrawals.

quit being so god damned stupid you have the fucking link right in front of you.