I have to say, Olympia Snowe is a Republican with really good ideas.

[Meister]

if THE single most important issue for the base of the party was the Iraq war, all of Lieberman's votes on issues of lesser importance are fairly irrelevant.

If I ask you for an omelet, and you bring me the salt and the pepper and the scallions and the shredded cheese, but you don't bring any EGGS, I won't be impressed with all of the ancilliary ingredients.

Spin and deflect all you want mainman....but I know a yarn when I hear one.

yet you cannot defend against my premise. in 2006, THE most important issue for democrats was the war in Iraq... and I don't give a fuck how many ancillary votes Joe Lieberman cast with the democrats, he was WITH George Bush on THE single most inportant issue... and that cost him the support of CT democrats and ultimately, the nomination. And if we somehow get ourselves another democrat in the senate so that Leiberman makes 61, I hope like hell that Reid strips him of his committee chairmanship and kicks his disloyal ass out of the democratic caucus. We don't need democrats to be 100% loyal... we really only need them to be about 51% loyal, but they GOTTA be loyal on the BIG stuff or they don't deserve to run as a democrat.

I agree on this one issue...but you lowered the bar for yourself. Good job....I guess.

 

[GWV5903]

This is all rationalization. Health Insurance companies are making LOTS of money. Enough to pay off every politican they can find.
And executives who work for Health Insurance companies get LOTS of money. Say, there's a good place to start cutting expenses!

So tell me Vast LWC the $233,941,189 that the lawyers made in political contributions in the '08 campaign cycle, of which 76% went to Democrats, where they paying off all of their staffers, family, maids, yard man, roofers, etc......funny thing about those big bad LOTS of money making Health Insurance companies, they only contributed $14,319,002 and if you take all of the Health Care Industries (Health Professionals, Hospitals & Nursing Homes, Health Services & HMO's and Pharmaceuticals) combined they where still $71,970,519 behind the lawyers......now where is it you want to start cutting expenses????

Oh and BTW combined they distributed their contributions a little more evenly, 56% to Dems & 44% to Repubs......

When you learn the knife has two edges, you might get cut less, just maybe....

 

[Vast LWC]

So tell me Vast LWC the $233,941,189 that the lawyers made in political contributions in the '08 campaign cycle, of which 76% went to Democrats, where they paying off all of their staffers, family, maids, yard man, roofers, etc......funny thing about those big bad LOTS of money making Health Insurance companies, they only contributed $14,319,002 and if you take all of the Health Care Industries (Health Professionals, Hospitals & Nursing Homes, Health Services & HMO's and Pharmaceuticals) combined they where still $71,970,519 behind the lawyers......now where is it you want to start cutting expenses????

Oh and BTW combined they distributed their contributions a little more evenly, 56% to Dems & 44% to Repubs......

When you learn the knife has two edges, you might get cut less, just maybe....

Lobbyists for most coporations are Lawyers. Do your figures include them?

And law firms also represent a variety of clients, who they would make contributions for. Do your figures include them?

Besides, I'm not really sure what you're insinuating, that the Law lobby is for health reform?

 

[The Rabbi]

if THE single most important issue for the base of the party was the Iraq war, all of Lieberman's votes on issues of lesser importance are fairly irrelevant.

If I ask you for an omelet, and you bring me the salt and the pepper and the scallions and the shredded cheese, but you don't bring any EGGS, I won't be impressed with all of the ancilliary ingredients.

Spin and deflect all you want mainman....but I know a yarn when I hear one.

yet you cannot defend against my premise. in 2006, THE most important issue for democrats was the war in Iraq... and I don't give a fuck how many ancillary votes Joe Lieberman cast with the democrats, he was WITH George Bush on THE single most inportant issue... and that cost him the support of CT democrats and ultimately, the nomination. And if we somehow get ourselves another democrat in the senate so that Leiberman makes 61, I hope like hell that Reid strips him of his committee chairmanship and kicks his disloyal ass out of the democratic caucus. We don't need democrats to be 100% loyal... we really only need them to be about 51% loyal, but they GOTTA be loyal on the BIG stuff or they don't deserve to run as a democrat.

One would never have guessed from your bile that you are talking about a former Vice Presidential nominee of the Democratic Party. One that the same party within a few years turned around and shafted because of one lousy position they didnt like, even though most of them voted for it.

 

[maineman]

Spin and deflect all you want mainman....but I know a yarn when I hear one.

yet you cannot defend against my premise. in 2006, THE most important issue for democrats was the war in Iraq... and I don't give a fuck how many ancillary votes Joe Lieberman cast with the democrats, he was WITH George Bush on THE single most inportant issue... and that cost him the support of CT democrats and ultimately, the nomination. And if we somehow get ourselves another democrat in the senate so that Leiberman makes 61, I hope like hell that Reid strips him of his committee chairmanship and kicks his disloyal ass out of the democratic caucus. We don't need democrats to be 100% loyal... we really only need them to be about 51% loyal, but they GOTTA be loyal on the BIG stuff or they don't deserve to run as a democrat.

One would never have guessed from your bile that you are talking about a former Vice Presidential nominee of the Democratic Party. One that the same party within a few years turned around and shafted because of one lousy position they didnt like, even though most of them voted for it.

Au contraire....one would not have guessed that a former Vice Presidential nominee of my party cold have strayed so far from the basic party position on this basic, defining issue.

And in fact, a majority of congressional democrats voted against the war in Iraq... and all but a handful of republicans voted for it.

 

[Meister]

yet you cannot defend against my premise. in 2006, THE most important issue for democrats was the war in Iraq... and I don't give a fuck how many ancillary votes Joe Lieberman cast with the democrats, he was WITH George Bush on THE single most inportant issue... and that cost him the support of CT democrats and ultimately, the nomination. And if we somehow get ourselves another democrat in the senate so that Leiberman makes 61, I hope like hell that Reid strips him of his committee chairmanship and kicks his disloyal ass out of the democratic caucus. We don't need democrats to be 100% loyal... we really only need them to be about 51% loyal, but they GOTTA be loyal on the BIG stuff or they don't deserve to run as a democrat.

One would never have guessed from your bile that you are talking about a former Vice Presidential nominee of the Democratic Party. One that the same party within a few years turned around and shafted because of one lousy position they didnt like, even though most of them voted for it.

Au contraire....one would not have guessed that a former Vice Presidential nominee of my party cold have strayed so far from the basic party position on this basic, defining issue.

And in fact, a majority of congressional democrats voted against the war in Iraq... and all but a handful of republicans voted for it.

Just how far do you need to lower the bar, maineman? This is getting rediculious. just sayin...

 

[The Rabbi]

yet you cannot defend against my premise. in 2006, THE most important issue for democrats was the war in Iraq... and I don't give a fuck how many ancillary votes Joe Lieberman cast with the democrats, he was WITH George Bush on THE single most inportant issue... and that cost him the support of CT democrats and ultimately, the nomination. And if we somehow get ourselves another democrat in the senate so that Leiberman makes 61, I hope like hell that Reid strips him of his committee chairmanship and kicks his disloyal ass out of the democratic caucus. We don't need democrats to be 100% loyal... we really only need them to be about 51% loyal, but they GOTTA be loyal on the BIG stuff or they don't deserve to run as a democrat.

One would never have guessed from your bile that you are talking about a former Vice Presidential nominee of the Democratic Party. One that the same party within a few years turned around and shafted because of one lousy position they didnt like, even though most of them voted for it.

Au contraire....one would not have guessed that a former Vice Presidential nominee of my party cold have strayed so far from the basic party position on this basic, defining issue.

And in fact, a majority of congressional democrats voted against the war in Iraq... and all but a handful of republicans voted for it.

He was absolutely consistent in supporting strong and vigorous foreign policy. Suddenly it became a political issue the Dums could use to beat Pres Bush with. Lieberman wouldn't play along so he got the dump treatment from his own party. You woudl think he was owed a tad more respect than that.
Heck I'll bet the national Republicans have supported Olympia Snowe in past elections, despite her RINO record.

 

[maineman]

One would never have guessed from your bile that you are talking about a former Vice Presidential nominee of the Democratic Party. One that the same party within a few years turned around and shafted because of one lousy position they didnt like, even though most of them voted for it.

Au contraire....one would not have guessed that a former Vice Presidential nominee of my party cold have strayed so far from the basic party position on this basic, defining issue.

And in fact, a majority of congressional democrats voted against the war in Iraq... and all but a handful of republicans voted for it.

He was absolutely consistent in supporting strong and vigorous foreign policy. Suddenly it became a political issue the Dums could use to beat Pres Bush with. Lieberman wouldn't play along so he got the dump treatment from his own party. You woudl think he was owed a tad more respect than that.
Heck I'll bet the national Republicans have supported Olympia Snowe in past elections, despite her RINO record.

you refuse to acknowledge the importance of opposition to the Iraq war to the members of the democratic party in 2006. He didn't just break with his party and vote with the president on AN issue, he voted with the president on THE issue. And if Olympia Snowe were to vote against THE issue that topped the list for MAINE republicans, I would imagine that she would experience a significant primary opponent from the mainstream of the Maine GOP instead of the occasional marginal fundamentalist wacko that have run against her in previous primaries. And if she ever DID have a serious primary challenger that captured the interest and attention and support of Maine GOP mainstream, I can well imagine that that candidate would also attract a lot of interest and attention and support from national republicans as well.

 

[The Rabbi]

It was not THE issue. There were tons of issues. TO define one issue as THE issue in hindsight is pettifoggery.
And you have zero way of knowing what the GOP would do when (not if) Snowe sold out to the Dums on some putative THE issue (and here she's come pretty close).

 

[maineman]

It was not THE issue. There were tons of issues. TO define one issue as THE issue in hindsight is pettifoggery.
And you have zero way of knowing what the GOP would do when (not if) Snowe sold out to the Dums on some putative THE issue (and here she's come pretty close).

I live in Maine, and have worked in Maine politics for well over a decade, so (1) I think I am perfectly qualified to say what THE SINGLE BIGGEST issue was for northeastern democrats three years ago. And (2)I have watched Oly and Susie get elected and reelected for years... I have studied the electoral maps and the exit polls and I think I have a pretty good idea of who makes up their loyal constituents.... so I would have to disagree with you on all counts... with the exception that just MAYBE her vote on the Baucus bill might cause the RNC to attempt to assist her opposition in Maine in finding and supporting a more mainstream challenger.

 

[The Rabbi]

It was not THE issue. There were tons of issues. TO define one issue as THE issue in hindsight is pettifoggery.
And you have zero way of knowing what the GOP would do when (not if) Snowe sold out to the Dums on some putative THE issue (and here she's come pretty close).

I live in Maine, and have worked in Maine politics for well over a decade, so (1) I think I am perfectly qualified to say what THE SINGLE BIGGEST issue was for northeastern democrats three years ago. And (2)I have watched Oly and Susie get elected and reelected for years... I have studied the electoral maps and the exit polls and I think I have a pretty good idea of who makes up their loyal constituents.... so I would have to disagree with you on all counts... with the exception that just MAYBE her vote on the Baucus bill might cause the RNC to attempt to assist her opposition in Maine in finding and supporting a more mainstream challenger.

No, actually you aren't.
You are completely guessing on the RNC and its support for the two dumb bitches. There is no evidence that is the case, and plenty that it isnt.

 

[Emma]

Private Insurers would never let a Public Option happen if they could avoid it, and so they would have to start being responsible.

I could see that happening.

While I respect her, I don't see the health insurance industry doing anything but continuing their stranglehold on the consumers and providers. They've known for years that people were getting fed up with their crap, and that it was headed to the breaking point. But instead of reining themselves in and acting in good faith, what do they do? Increase premiums by over 80% over the past several years, increase rejection of claims while simply dropping coverage for many, pricing individuals and small businesses out of the market while pocketing a 428% increase in profits, consolidation and mergers that increase their monopoly and reduce any semblance of competition, and conduct deals amongst themselves to keep costs (and profits) artificially high. Then have the nerve to attempt to blackmail the Congress by promising to quadruple premiums if health care reform is passed.

Fuck 'em.

They've had their chance.

 

[maineman]

It was not THE issue. There were tons of issues. TO define one issue as THE issue in hindsight is pettifoggery.
And you have zero way of knowing what the GOP would do when (not if) Snowe sold out to the Dums on some putative THE issue (and here she's come pretty close).

I live in Maine, and have worked in Maine politics for well over a decade, so (1) I think I am perfectly qualified to say what THE SINGLE BIGGEST issue was for northeastern democrats three years ago. And (2)I have watched Oly and Susie get elected and reelected for years... I have studied the electoral maps and the exit polls and I think I have a pretty good idea of who makes up their loyal constituents.... so I would have to disagree with you on all counts... with the exception that just MAYBE her vote on the Baucus bill might cause the RNC to attempt to assist her opposition in Maine in finding and supporting a more mainstream challenger.

No, actually you aren't.
You are completely guessing on the RNC and its support for the two dumb bitches. There is no evidence that is the case, and plenty that it isnt.

notice the use of the word. "maybe" and "might".

And as to the single biggest issue for northeastern dems in 2006, I am not guessing in the least.

 

[The Rabbi]

Oh, OK>
Maybe Obama will realize his programs are abject failures. He might embrace conservative values of personal responsibility, small government, and low taxes. And for his second term he might nominate Barney Frank who maybe will also see the light.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Oh, OK>
Maybe Obama will realize his programs are abject failures. He might embrace conservative values of personal responsibility, small government, and low taxes. And for his second term he might nominate Barney Frank who maybe will also see the light.

And I might hit the megamillions tonight We can hope for change can't we

http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...lead-to-single-payer-government-run-care.html

 

[The Rabbi]

Pubic Option is the camel's nose for single payer, which is the ultimate goal of Obama, Frank and their ilk. There isn't any debate on this fact. There are plenty of sound clips of them admitting as much.

 

[Emma]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...lead-to-single-payer-government-run-care.html

I hope so.

 

[Oddball]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...lead-to-single-payer-government-run-care.html

I hope so.

Yes...We all know how monopolies have worked out in the past!

 

[Polk]

how did you miss it?

how the hell did you miss what Dude was saying?.....he wasnt talking about the voters in Conn. dumbass....he was talking about how the parties will say this rep is being "rational" because he/she agrees with us,while throwing a disagreeing rep under the bus for being "rational" while agreeing with the other side.....

Actually I was pointing (like it matters) that the national Democratic party threw its support behind Lieberman's challenger in the primary, forcing him to run as an independent. It has little to do with voters in CT.

False. The party didn't support either candidate in the primary. Then again, it's not the role of parties institutionally to choose which nominees are selected.

 

[Polk]

And as far as Lieberman goes, I'll admit that I personally was a bit pissed at him for the Bush/war thing,

...while voting with the dems about 95+ of the rest of the time.

Which party is it again that demands near total fealty to party first?

False. Lieberman only votes with the party about 80 percent of the time. He's about as reliable a Democratic vote as Lincoln or Pryor. The voters of Connecticut were foolish enough to believe that Lieberman was a party line guy except for on Iraq. Now that's he's shown his true colors, he's a huge underdog in his 2012 reelection campaign.