I may be losing my faith...

[MarcATL]

Why wold this make you lose your faith? How is this event correlated to your faith?

 

[Freewill]

I often say that the existence of real, pure evil (and it does exist) is the greatest apologetic for the existence of God. There is objective morality in the universe, apart from mankind. In fact it is tragically ironic that many who turn to Atheism do so as a reaction to seeing some evil or injustice that they can't square with the existence of God, such as the unimaginably horrific shooting in Las Vegas. "How could God allow this?" But in doing so they are making a moral judgement based upon God's morality in the first place. It amounts to saying, "because I know objective morality exists, therefore no objective morality exists". And sadly, many do not seem to consider this. There is good and evil. There is a good God who made us in His image and who won't violate that gift by subverting our free wills, even though we may commit evil for a time on this earth. There is hope, even when things seem darkest.

I get all that, but it seems so arbitrary, who lives, who dies, when bullets are flying from the gun of a mad man choosing random victims.

It is arbitrary, what point are you trying to make?

 

[Freewill]

Why wold this make you lose your faith? How is this event correlated to your faith?

Good question.

 

[Blackrook]

I often say that the existence of real, pure evil (and it does exist) is the greatest apologetic for the existence of God. There is objective morality in the universe, apart from mankind. In fact it is tragically ironic that many who turn to Atheism do so as a reaction to seeing some evil or injustice that they can't square with the existence of God, such as the unimaginably horrific shooting in Las Vegas. "How could God allow this?" But in doing so they are making a moral judgement based upon God's morality in the first place. It amounts to saying, "because I know objective morality exists, therefore no objective morality exists". And sadly, many do not seem to consider this. There is good and evil. There is a good God who made us in His image and who won't violate that gift by subverting our free wills, even though we may commit evil for a time on this earth. There is hope, even when things seem darkest.

I get all that, but it seems so arbitrary, who lives, who dies, when bullets are flying from the gun of a mad man choosing random victims.

It is arbitrary, what point are you trying to make?

Who lives and who dies is random, arbitrary and capricious. One woman is shot in the head and dies, while the woman next to her lives another 50 years and dies of old age.

 

[Theospeak1]

So in closing, recapping this thread

In order to believe in God, good people must die

Clarification - People are made in God's image with free will. Without autonomy we'd be the equivalent of a screen saver, i.e., incapable of choice and therefore incapable of love, less than human. But that free will means we can destroy God's image. That means going against His image (we can call it "sin") literally destroys us. When we become parents a man and a woman have a child who is in their own image. That's part of the gift of being made in God's image as well. Adam and Eve, fallen, gave birth to children with the same tendency to sin. And with that sin - and each of us is individually culpable (it's our nature) - comes death.

"Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned— for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come."
-Romans 5:12-15

The good news, literally, is that God came down and paid the price for our sins as the person of Jesus on the cross (He was both 100% God and 100% man concurrently), and He then rose again conquering death. Even though everyone's body dies our spirits are eternal. We choose to either go into eternity with God, who is Life, Love, Peace, Joy, etc., or to cut ourselves off from God which would put us in a place of death, hatred, unrest, unhappiness, etc. I know what the gunman was choosing.

And how do I know all of this is true? I don't for absolutely certain, but the existence of evil is a good start in terms of looking for the truth. The fact that we only observe a single universe and have never observed abiogenesis is another interesting truth.

Here's one for you. Ever wonder why our relationship with God right now is by faith, just as any belief in Atheism, abiogenesis and spontaneous universe formation must equally be by faith? It's because if God came down and cracked the sky His awesomeness would strip us of freewill and we would only be able to relate to Him out of fear or firsthand knowledge, i.e., it would strip us of the ability to relate to Him out of love, it would strip us of free will.

 

[PixieStix]

I can give no comfort to those who love these women. There's nothing I can say to make it better. There's nothing in my heart at all, only emptiness and despair.

That is called grief my friend. Try to remember that God is close to those with a broken and contrite spirit. Take that grief and do something good with it. It can be fuel to your efforts

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

...seeing those dead women, heaped where they fell as bullets tore through their tender flesh, I am beginning the question my faith in God.

WHAT is the MASTER PLAN that requires this to happen???

Not to mention hurricanes, earthquakes, floods, forest fires, tornadoes and all the other disasters God sends us to remind us that HE IS BIGGER THAN WE ARE.

If I lose my faith I lose my hope in heaven, and if I lose that, I don't know how I go on...

I have been call the Diablo and Diavolo and when I look into the eyes of ignorance I remind them that they have nothing I want...

My point?

Father knows better and you need to know this is a war and battles are lost and won...

Is this cryptic?

Yes!

 

[PixieStix]

I often say that the existence of real, pure evil (and it does exist) is the greatest apologetic for the existence of God. There is objective morality in the universe, apart from mankind. In fact it is tragically ironic that many who turn to Atheism do so as a reaction to seeing some evil or injustice that they can't square with the existence of God, such as the unimaginably horrific shooting in Las Vegas. "How could God allow this?" But in doing so they are making a moral judgement based upon God's morality in the first place. It amounts to saying, "because I know objective morality exists, therefore no objective morality exists". And sadly, many do not seem to consider this. There is good and evil. There is a good God who made us in His image and who won't violate that gift by subverting our free wills, even though we may commit evil for a time on this earth. There is hope, even when things seem darkest.

I get all that, but it seems so arbitrary, who lives, who dies, when bullets are flying from the gun of a mad man choosing random victims.

It is arbitrary, what point are you trying to make?

Who lives and who dies is random, arbitrary and capricious. One woman is shot in the head and dies, while the woman next to her lives another 50 years and dies of old age.

That is why murder is wrong. I believe it is because it steals away God's will. God's will is not murder. I will never believe that. Murder is the enemy. Murder is evil, murder is of satan not of God

 

[Votto]

...seeing those dead women, heaped where they fell as bullets tore through their tender flesh, I am beginning the question my faith in God.

WHAT is the MASTER PLAN that requires this to happen???

Not to mention hurricanes, earthquakes, floods, forest fires, tornadoes and all the other disasters God sends us to remind us that HE IS BIGGER THAN WE ARE.

If I lose my faith I lose my hope in heaven, and if I lose that, I don't know how I go on...

Wow.

Never seen pics of the Holocaust?

That makes this shooting look like a walk in the park.

Now consider this.

Every disciple of Jesus was martyred for their faith.

Why? Is God not all powerful? Does he not care? More to the point, why would they lay down their lives for a lie? What did they see to get them to lay down their lives willingly?

 

[PixieStix]

...seeing those dead women, heaped where they fell as bullets tore through their tender flesh, I am beginning the question my faith in God.

WHAT is the MASTER PLAN that requires this to happen???

Not to mention hurricanes, earthquakes, floods, forest fires, tornadoes and all the other disasters God sends us to remind us that HE IS BIGGER THAN WE ARE.

If I lose my faith I lose my hope in heaven, and if I lose that, I don't know how I go on...

Wow.

Never seen pics of the Holocaust?

That makes this shooting look like a walk in the park.

Dude, what does that have to do with the grief he and many people are feeling for those people who died today or last night?

 

[Votto]

...seeing those dead women, heaped where they fell as bullets tore through their tender flesh, I am beginning the question my faith in God.

WHAT is the MASTER PLAN that requires this to happen???

Not to mention hurricanes, earthquakes, floods, forest fires, tornadoes and all the other disasters God sends us to remind us that HE IS BIGGER THAN WE ARE.

If I lose my faith I lose my hope in heaven, and if I lose that, I don't know how I go on...

Wow.

Never seen pics of the Holocaust?

That makes this shooting look like a walk in the park.

Dude, what does that have to do with the grief he and many people are feeling for those people who died today or last night?

This is about why a loving God lets bad things happen.

Even Jesus prayed to be delivered from the cross as his grief was such he sweated drops of blood.

Has anyone encountered that much grief?

Incidentally, his prayer was not answered. He died a death that was one of the most horrific possible.

 

[onefour1]

We should have faith in the resurrection that all those who were killed today will once again be reunited with their bodies to never die again. This life is a mortal life. We are all subject to death. These experiences in this temporal sphere are but a small moment compared to living for all eternity. They are for our profit and learning.

Doctrine and Covenants 122:5-9
5 If thou art called to pass through tribulation; if thou art in perils among false brethren; if thou art in perils among robbers; if thou art in perils by land or by sea;
6 If thou art accused with all manner of false accusations; if thine enemies fall upon thee; if they tear thee from the society of thy father and mother and brethren and sisters; and if with a drawn sword thine enemies tear thee from the bosom of thy wife, and of thine offspring, and thine elder son, although but six years of age, shall cling to thy garments, and shall say, My father, my father, why can’t you stay with us? O, my father, what are the men going to do with you? and if then he shall be thrust from thee by the sword, and thou be dragged to prison, and thine enemies prowl around thee like wolves for the blood of the lamb;
7 And if thou shouldst be cast into the pit, or into the hands of murderers, and the sentence of death passed upon thee; if thou be cast into the deep; if the billowing surge conspire against thee; if fierce winds become thine enemy; if the heavens gather blackness, and all the elements combine to hedge up the way; and above all, if the very jaws of hell shall gape open the mouth wide after thee, know thou, my son, that all these things shall give thee experience, and shall be for thy good.
8 The Son of Man hath descended below them all. Art thou greater than he?
9 Therefore, hold on thy way, and the priesthood shall remain with thee; for their bounds are set, they cannot pass. Thy days are known, and thy years shall not be numbered less; therefore, fear not what man can do, for God shall be with you forever and ever.

 

[RWNJ]

Ever occur to you that such a being simply doesn't exist?

Oh, no, that couldn't be it................

Did it ever occur to you that you are completely clueless?

 

[OldLady]

...seeing those dead women, heaped where they fell as bullets tore through their tender flesh, I am beginning the question my faith in God.

WHAT is the MASTER PLAN that requires this to happen???

Not to mention hurricanes, earthquakes, floods, forest fires, tornadoes and all the other disasters God sends us to remind us that HE IS BIGGER THAN WE ARE.

If I lose my faith I lose my hope in heaven, and if I lose that, I don't know how I go on...

How do you lose faith when He allowed his Son to go through what He did?
Faith and hope are all we have to stand firm in the face of evil. Letting that go allows evil to win.

 

[Avatar4321]

Read the Book of Mormon. It will strengthen your faith in Jesus Christ

 

[TNHarley]

...seeing those dead women, heaped where they fell as bullets tore through their tender flesh, I am beginning the question my faith in God.

WHAT is the MASTER PLAN that requires this to happen???

Not to mention hurricanes, earthquakes, floods, forest fires, tornadoes and all the other disasters God sends us to remind us that HE IS BIGGER THAN WE ARE.

If I lose my faith I lose my hope in heaven, and if I lose that, I don't know how I go on...

How do you lose faith when He allowed his Son to go through what He did?
Faith and hope are all we have to stand firm in the face of evil. Letting that go allows evil to win.

He is a troll OL..

 

[bodecea]

Ever consider that their loved ones didn't want that picture on some political message board?

 

[bodecea]

I see how atheists behave on this forum and in my life and I don't want to become like them. They seem to me to be bitter, unhappy people who want to infect others with their hopelessness and despair. I will resist that fate with everything I can muster.

I am an atheist and I'm very happy. I have hope and love. When you hold a cup up, after a while, that cup is all you think about. It becomes very heavy and your muscles burn. The world is no different. Let it go...set it down. Don't worry about the things you can't control. Don't worry about who or what is controlling them. Be happy and thankful for this life. Be present. Life is good man.

Well, there may be decent atheists but you have to be aware that the most outspoken atheists are complete jerks.

Well, there may be decent christians but you have to be aware that the most outspoken christians are complete jerks. Just look to Pat Robertson.

 

[AVISSSER]

I see how atheists behave on this forum and in my life and I don't want to become like them. They seem to me to be bitter, unhappy people who want to infect others with their hopelessness and despair. I will resist that fate with everything I can muster.

I am an atheist and I'm very happy. I have hope and love. When you hold a cup up, after a while, that cup is all you think about. It becomes very heavy and your muscles burn. The world is no different. Let it go...set it down. Don't worry about the things you can't control. Don't worry about who or what is controlling them. Be happy and thankful for this life. Be present. Life is good man.

Well, there may be decent atheists but you have to be aware that the most outspoken atheists are complete jerks.

Well, there may be decent christians but you have to be aware that the most outspoken christians are complete jerks. Just look to Pat Robertson.

Old PR. He is still alive? I remember my granny used to curse his name when I was a boy.

 

[PixieStix]

...seeing those dead women, heaped where they fell as bullets tore through their tender flesh, I am beginning the question my faith in God.

WHAT is the MASTER PLAN that requires this to happen???

Not to mention hurricanes, earthquakes, floods, forest fires, tornadoes and all the other disasters God sends us to remind us that HE IS BIGGER THAN WE ARE.

If I lose my faith I lose my hope in heaven, and if I lose that, I don't know how I go on...

How do you lose faith when He allowed his Son to go through what He did?
Faith and hope are all we have to stand firm in the face of evil. Letting that go allows evil to win.

He is a troll OL..

We are all trolls. That is why we are here