I think I might be done with the Catholic Church...

[Slyhunter]

Your uninformed equation of pedophilia with homosexuality is inaccurate, and you certainly cannot find that it reflects the position of the RC.

Milk.

 

[Meriweather]

Catholic Priests Abused 1,000 Children in Pennsylvania, Report Says

"The grand jury said that while some accused priests were removed from ministry, the church officials who protected them remained in office or even got promotions. One bishop named in the report as vouching for an abusive priest was Cardinal Donald Wuerl, now the archbishop of Washington. “Until that changes, we think it is too early to close the book on the Catholic Church sex scandal,” the jury wrote."

"But several bishops, including Bishop David A. Zubik of Pittsburgh, rejected the idea the church had concealed abuse."

"Church officials followed a “playbook for concealing the truth,” the grand jury said, "

Hard to know what will happen in the future, what is happening right now.

Yes, the Grand Jury reported on what USED TO BE. In the Church, it is not being done now. Guess what, the same thing (cover-ups and promotions) were being done at that time in all government agencies, especially school districts, as well. Why did the media cover up this aspect of child abuse from the very beginning?

Here is the deal. Society, down through the ages, has done things that makes future generations cringe. Slavery. Child abuse and its cover-up all throughout society. Future generations may well cringe at the number of abortions this generation blithely allowed to happen. Yes, all good people cringe that the Church, too, was following society's dictate (and psychologist recommendations) in doing this. Fortunately, things change. Society no longer approves slavery, while still allowing human trafficking to cross our borders, seemingly with our blessing. Society no longer condones covering up child abuse. The downside? Men (and here I'm speaking from personal experience of teachers, fathers, and priests) are being spitefully and wrongfully accused, much like the Salem Witch Hunt.

As I've highlighted before, the Grand Jury is trying to find a way to legally (since the statute of limitations passed) help now thirty-plus-old adults who suffered abuse as children. As I already said in the other thread, I hope the Pennsylvania diocese (and any other diocese as well) would choose to make reparation and compensation to these victims who are now middle-aged adults. Many of them had their lives turned upside down from being abused.

 

[airplanemechanic]

Mary is NOT holy. Period.

And?

Then why the hell do the fucking catholics keep praying to her? Why do they say HOLY MARY?

 

[Meriweather]

Why do they say HOLY MARY?

1. A definition of "holy" is someone who is dedicated or devoted to the service of God. If you do not believe this of Mary, then obviously, you are not going to be asking her to join in any prayers.

2. Yes, Catholics pray the rosary. We use the rosary as a meditation on the life of Christ. The cadence and Mysteries presented help to keep focused on his life and teachings.

Why does this bother you so?

 

[airplanemechanic]

Because it goes directly against the bible teachings. No the definition of holy is sacred.

exalted or worthy of complete devotion as one perfect in goodness and righteousness.

Mary was not holy in any way. She was not perfect. She was a sinner. The bible clearly states that when Mary gave birth nobody prayed to her.

Why do Catholics not follow the bible? Why do they make up their own doctrine?

 

[Meriweather]

Mary was not holy in any way. She was not perfect. She was a sinner. The bible clearly states that when Mary gave birth nobody prayed to her.

Why do Catholics not follow the bible? Why do they make up their own doctrine?

The Bible calls everyone to holiness. See Exodus. Leviticus. Thessalonians. Peter.

If your church chooses not to pray together will everyone, that is their policy. As I said before the Catholic Church prays with the entire Body of Christ--those who are living and those who have passed on. If you see Mary as outside the Body of Christ, that is certainly your prerogative, but Catholics see her as one who said yes to God's will for her.

 

[airplanemechanic]

Mary was not holy in any way. She was not perfect. She was a sinner. The bible clearly states that when Mary gave birth nobody prayed to her.

Why do Catholics not follow the bible? Why do they make up their own doctrine?

The Bible calls everyone to holiness. See Exodus. Leviticus. Thessalonians. Peter.

If your church chooses not to pray together will everyone, that is their policy. As I said before the Catholic Church prays with the entire Body of Christ--those who are living and those who have passed on. If you see Mary as outside the Body of Christ, that is certainly your prerogative, but Catholics see her as one who said yes to God's will for her.

The bible calls everyone to holiness but it is not achievable. It's akin to saying "be the best you can be." Only God is holy. Period. Nobody else ever was or will be perfect. So you don't pray to anyone but him. Doing otherwise is direct blasphemy.

You can pray together. We pray together. TO GOD. Not TO MARY. Not TO JOSEPH. Not to relatives, dead or alive. Not to anyone but God. Or Jesus. The catholic church is a whackjob. They don't pray to God, they're too busy telling people they must confess to another sinner and that saying 3 our fathers will get them forgiveness. NONE of which is in the bible. They just make shit up as they go along.

And to top it off, they make their members take "lessons" how to be a good married couple from a priest that is supposed to maintain celibacy. (except for molesting kids of course). Only a fucked up church would mandate THAT bullshit of their members.

Defend your whackadoodle teachings and child molesting priests. I'm so glad to be free of that church and into a real church that worships GOD and ONLY GOD.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Catholic Priests Abused 1,000 Children in Pennsylvania, Report Says

"The grand jury said that while some accused priests were removed from ministry, the church officials who protected them remained in office or even got promotions. One bishop named in the report as vouching for an abusive priest was Cardinal Donald Wuerl, now the archbishop of Washington. “Until that changes, we think it is too early to close the book on the Catholic Church sex scandal,” the jury wrote."

"But several bishops, including Bishop David A. Zubik of Pittsburgh, rejected the idea the church had concealed abuse."

"Church officials followed a “playbook for concealing the truth,” the grand jury said, "

Hard to know what will happen in the future, what is happening right now.

Yes, the Grand Jury reported on what USED TO BE. In the Church, it is not being done now. Guess what, the same thing (cover-ups and promotions) were being done at that time in all government agencies, especially school districts, as well. Why did the media cover up this aspect of child abuse from the very beginning?

Here is the deal. Society, down through the ages, has done things that makes future generations cringe. Slavery. Child abuse and its cover-up all throughout society. Future generations may well cringe at the number of abortions this generation blithely allowed to happen. Yes, all good people cringe that the Church, too, was following society's dictate (and psychologist recommendations) in doing this. Fortunately, things change. Society no longer approves slavery, while still allowing human trafficking to cross our borders, seemingly with our blessing. Society no longer condones covering up child abuse. The downside? Men (and here I'm speaking from personal experience of teachers, fathers, and priests) are being spitefully and wrongfully accused, much like the Salem Witch Hunt.

As I've highlighted before, the Grand Jury is trying to find a way to legally (since the statute of limitations passed) help now thirty-plus-old adults who suffered abuse as children. As I already said in the other thread, I hope the Pennsylvania diocese (and any other diocese as well) would choose to make reparation and compensation to these victims who are now middle-aged adults. Many of them had their lives turned upside down from being abused.

And here's the thing. Things might have changed, or they might not have changed.

How do we know? How can we know? Scandals can take decades to come out.

 

[OldLady]

The Catholic Church is failing in many respects, many priests are unfaithful to Catholic teachings, for example. You find them out in confession, when they tell you masturbation is not really a sin, or that you should take Communion even if you are in a state of sin.

The Mass begins with the (general) confession of sins, where we ask forgiveness from both God and the community. This forgiveness covers all venial sins. Naturally, anyone in the state of mortal sin needs to seek forgiveness through the Sacrament of Reconciliation before joining in Communion. Masturbation would be covered as a venial sin, not a mortal one. The reason masturbation is considered a sin at all is that it misses the mark, the ideal for sexuality.

In one respect, we are always in the state of sin, while at the same time working to overcome the sins in our lives. Who better to help us overcome these weaknesses than Our Lord, himself? He is our greatest inspiration.

Do keep in mind the Pennsylvania report covers seventy years, dating back to 1947. Mentioned in the report is that in the last twenty years the Church has new procedures in place to prevent today what took place between 1947 through the mid 1980s. Catholics themselves have been involved with these changes.

Again, when a small percentage fails, this is no reason for the rest to fail in the faith as well. It is a time for us to strengthen and rebuild. Christ brought and left us a legacy. Are we going to fail him because of an even smaller percentage that failed him?

Although I am not a Catholic, I agree with you that the Church has no doubt done a lot of things to ensure this does not continue to happen. At least I hope they have. 301 priests going back almost 80 years is not that huge a number. It is 301 too many, of course, but it is not the entire Catholic Church.

 

[Meriweather]

And here's the thing. Things might have changed, or they might not have changed.

How do we know? How can we know? Scandals can take decades to come out.

I cannot be in every diocese in the United States. However, I can vouch that in my diocese that a couple of years ago, every congregation in the diocese was told of a priest who had been turned over to authorities. The United States Catholic Conference of Bishops (USCCB) had told all United States Diocese this is the procedure that should be followed--and follow it we did.

 

[Skull Pilot]

The bishops allowed 1000 children to be molested by priests, a grand jury has found.

I might be done with carrying the water of a Church that has failed on such an epic level to live up to their own moral rules.

As long as my father is alive, I will continue to go to Mass with him, because I don't want to break his heart.

But after that, I think I'm done.

You may want to keep in mind that Judas decided he was done, as well. The other eleven decided they had something worth carrying forward. Judas represents eight percent of the Apostles. The number of priests who broke their own vows is far less than that. Leaving the Church because of this would also be a slap in the face to the ninety-seven percent who did not break their vows.

Here is the real deal. I have found in my life there is never one reason for someone to reach a major decision. There are always at least three reasons that push a person into making such a change. Have you pondered what those other two reasons might be that may also be pushing you towards this choice?

Why does one have to belong to any church?

Why can't you just read the bible yourself and practice what it says?

Organized religion was established when most people were illiterate there is no need for it now

 

[Meriweather]

Although I am not a Catholic, I agree with you that the Church has no doubt done a lot of things to ensure this does not continue to happen. At least I hope they have. 301 priests going back almost 80 years is not that huge a number. It is 301 too many, of course, but it is not the entire Catholic Church.

Yes, a lot has been done. When I was growing up, altar servers donned robes (over their clothes) in the same general area of the church that the priest was donning his robes (also over his clothes). By the time my children were altar servers, altar servers and priests were donning robes in entirely different areas of the church. The two were not even close to each other. Basically, the priest sees altar servers during the Mass, and that is the only time they are together.

 

[frigidweirdo]

And here's the thing. Things might have changed, or they might not have changed.

How do we know? How can we know? Scandals can take decades to come out.

I cannot be in every diocese in the United States. However, I can vouch that in my diocese that a couple of years ago, every congregation in the diocese was told of a priest who had been turned over to authorities. The United States Catholic Conference of Bishops (USCCB) had told all United States Diocese this is the procedure that should be followed--and follow it we did.

Which is good. But will it happen in every place?

Power leads people to do stupid shit, and the Catholic Church places power in the hands of Priests.

 

[Meriweather]

Why does one have to belong to any church?

Why can't you just read the bible yourself and practice what it says?

Organized religion was established when most people were illiterate there is no need for it now

Why do people gather and eat as a family on Thanksgiving and other holidays?

Also, worship and prayer is not one or the other--it is both. We worship and pray individually, and we also gather to worship and pray as a community. Keep in mind many of us are involved in church ministries as well. A community and ministries are able to do more as a unit than is possible for a single individual.

 

[Meriweather]

Which is good. But will it happen in every place?

Power leads people to do stupid shit, and the Catholic Church places power in the hands of Priests.

Keep in mind in every parish there is a parish council and also many ministries. The Church is not just priests--it is mostly laity. The priests probably have less power than we do, because their function truly is to serve. And that is exactly what the greatest majority do. They serve.

The USCCB has a lot of pressure on the dioceses so this is done everywhere--and, of course, it is also what people in the pews demand as well.

 

[Meriweather]

Although I am not a Catholic, I agree with you that the Church has no doubt done a lot of things to ensure this does not continue to happen. At least I hope they have. 301 priests going back almost 80 years is not that huge a number. It is 301 too many, of course, but it is not the entire Catholic Church.

Yes, and thank you so much for noticing this. Back in the 80s, it was so disheartening for us to see even sensational priests being broad-brushed with this small minority.

 

[zaangalewa]

The bishops allowed 1000 children to be molested by priests, a grand jury has found.

I might be done with carrying the water of a Church that has failed on such an epic level to live up to their own moral rules.

As long as my father is alive, I will continue to go to Mass with him, because I don't want to break his heart.

But after that, I think I'm done.

Break his heart ! He needs to know the truth about the filthy scumbags he's taken lifes advice from his entire life. Catholicism is a religion of idolatry and a complete farce from day one.

Hmmm … What do you see at this picture? Bishop Franz Rudolf Bornewasser was no Nazi.

 

[Meriweather]

The bible calls everyone to holiness but it is not achievable. It's akin to saying "be the best you can be." Only God is holy. Period. Nobody else ever was or will be perfect. So you don't pray to anyone but him. Doing otherwise is direct blasphemy.

You can pray together. We pray together. TO GOD. Not TO MARY. Not TO JOSEPH. Not to relatives, dead or alive. Not to anyone but God. Or Jesus. The catholic church is a whackjob. They don't pray to God, they're too busy telling people they must confess to another sinner and that saying 3 our fathers will get them forgiveness. NONE of which is in the bible. They just make shit up as they go along.

And to top it off, they make their members take "lessons" how to be a good married couple from a priest that is supposed to maintain celibacy. (except for molesting kids of course). Only a fucked up church would mandate THAT bullshit of their members.

Defend your whackadoodle teachings and child molesting priests. I'm so glad to be free of that church and into a real church that worships GOD and ONLY GOD.

1. Your definition of holiness is not the biblical definition. The Hebrew word is kadosh, which presents the idea of being set aside and the idea of transparency. The reason God calls us to be holy (to be apart from others, to be transparent) is so God's purpose can be noticeable. Creation has a bad habit of not allowing the Creator and His purpose to be noticeable. Mary was set apart for a particular purpose, to be transparent herself so that God's purpose might be noticeable.

2. God is Holy--He, Himself is set apart; He is far removed. He is transparent. So ask yourself, did Mary agree to be set apart for a specific purpose, to be transparent, so that God's purpose might be revealed?

3. You may want to insist only God is holy, but scripture tells us God calls upon us to be holy as well--to set ourselves apart from what everyone else may be doing, to be transparent in our own actions so that God's purpose for us might be revealed. That is what the Bible means when it calls us to holiness. Corinthians says, "For the Temple of God, which you are, is holy."

4. Do you ever ask anyone to pray for you or to pray for something worthwhile? When you make this request, are you praying to that person? That is what you claim Catholics are doing when they request the prayers of other members of the Body of Christ. In fact, we are merely in communion with other members of the Body of Christ, just like when we worship together at Mass. We are not praying to each other, are we, but all of us are praying to God. The Body of Christ--those living and those who have passed on--send all prayers to God, not to one another, just like in Church we send all worship to God, not to one another.

5. Keep in mind priests are products of a marriage. I don't know about you, but I learned as much about marriage from my parents, grandparents, aunts, and uncles as I have from being married. They were my teachers, and they inspired my own marriage.

 

[zaangalewa]

I didn't say that. I said that Catholics pray to people other than the trinity. I didn't say anything about them praying to each other.

I know the truth about the Catholic church. I was a Catholic for 25 years before I converted to a protestant.

Then who do you claim Catholics pray to--Buddhists? Hindus? Catholics ask other members of the Body of Christ (including those who have passed on) to join them in prayer to God. Asking someone for prayers (whether living or dead) is not the same as our praying to God. Any Catholic of 25 years would know that.

Catholics pray to Mary. Mary was not holy, Mary was blessed, but not holy. Mary was a sinner like you or me.

And yes, if you pray to someone, living or dead, you are violating one of the ten commandments. Nowhere in the bible does it state that you are to pray to anyone but the father, the son or the holy spirit. Why would you pray to dead people? Dead sinners at that? Asking someone for prayers is fine but Catholics PRAY to these people. They have a rosary. Holy Mary, (wrong, shes not holy) pray for us sinners. (why does she need to pray for me? I need to pray for her. She was sinner like me.)

Catholics say that doing earthly things can get you forgiveness. The bible clearly states no earthly accomplishments would get you forgiveness. You are only forgiven by God. Romans 11:6 states this clearly.

Catholics go to confession. You are only to confess your sins to God. Not man.

Catholics pray to a pope. Find the word "pope" in the bible. That's a catholic thing. The pope is a sinner like me or you. And whats even worse, Catholics call the pope the "holy father." Calling ANYONE other than God holy is blasphemy. Only God is holy.

I could go on and on. Catholics are whackadoodle and have some hidden version of the bible they use that nobody else does. The entire protestant faith was born out of the objection to Catholicism and the weird crap it teaches.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Whackadoodle or wackadoodle?

 

[zaangalewa]

Catholics pray to Mary. Mary was not holy, Mary was blessed, but not holy. Mary was a sinner like you or me.

And yes, if you pray to someone, living or dead, you are violating one of the ten commandments. Nowhere in the bible does it state that you are to pray to anyone but the father, the son or the holy spirit. Why would you pray to dead people? Dead sinners at that?

Catholics say that doing earthly things can get you forgiveness. The bible clearly states no earthly accomplishments would get you forgiveness. You are only forgiven by God.

Catholics go to confession. You are only to confess your sins to God. Not man.

I could go on and on. Catholics are whackadoodle and have some hidden version of the bible they use that nobody else does.

Christ taught that where two or three are gathered in his name, he is there as well. Asking Mary or any other saint (all members of the Body of Christ) to join one in prayer so that two are three are gathered in Christ's name violates no commandment, but follows the teaching of Christ. Those who are alive in Christ are not "dead."

Catholics believe in what Christ taught--Repentance for the forgiveness of sins. Repentance means turning away from sin and to obedience to God. So yes, giving up earthly stealing and then turning to earthly giving to others (obedience to God) can result in forgiveness as God promises. Remember that Christ warned giving something up was not enough--more evil is sure to descend unless one replaces wrong acts with right ones.

Christ initiated the Sacrament of Reconciliation, and many people went to him to hear their sins are forgiven. If people do not wish to hear this forgiveness or receive the graces inherent in the Sacraments Christ taught, they remain free to do as they wish. Many of us truly appreciate what the sacraments do for us and thank God for them.

Ok but you didn't rebut anything I said. Mary is NOT holy. Period.

Mary is holy.