I think I might be done with the Catholic Church...

[Meriweather]

You can do all that without organized religion clergy etc

To me it's puzzling why you all need a priest, pastor or whatever to tell you what the bible says when you are all capable of reading it yourselves

A group is better equipped and able to do more than a single person. The Bible should not be read, but studied. Study groups work well.

 

[Meriweather]

Religion is not at all what atheists say it is.

 

[sealybobo]

Religion is not at all what atheists say it is.

Atheism isn’t at all what theists say it is. But we’ve grown up in your churches and homes. Did you grow up in an atheist home?

Even if you did, that would only explain why you found religion. There is no right answer.

If it makes you feel better, I don’t want to take that away from you. If I can, how deep is your faith? If it doesn’t, grow a pair and quit crying that we are angry, hateful, in denial, liars, going to hell. All these things are just you theists trying to guilt us from having an honest discussion. And sorry we don’t take the words of 11 guys. That’s a cult that turned into religion.

If you can’t have an honest discussion without getting your feelings hurt, don’t come here that’s for sure.

 

[Meriweather]

Atheism isn’t at all what theists say it is. But we’ve grown up in your churches and homes. Did you grow up in an atheist home?

Even if you did, that would only explain why you found religion. There is no right answer.

If it makes you feel better, I don’t want to take that away from you. If I can, how deep is your faith? If it doesn’t, grow a pair and quit crying that we are angry, hateful, in denial, liars, going to hell. All these things are just you theists trying to guilt us from having an honest discussion. And sorry we don’t take the words of 11 guys. That’s a cult that turned into religion.

If you can’t have an honest discussion without getting your feelings hurt, don’t come here that’s for sure.

My feelings are not hurt. Far from it. What makes you think they are? I grew up in a Catholic family where a grandfather and uncle were atheists; the paternal side of the family were Protestants. I married an atheist. I am not speaking of their atheism, but the atheism I see on these boards. It never ceases to astonish me.

Some of the differences between 'my' atheists and atheists I see on line: None of my atheists spout the garbage about people of faith being focused on heaven and hell. None criticize going to church or purport that people should give up church to pray and read in solitary. None suggest that people who go to church need to "evolve" using atheism as an example of evolution. None of this hurts my feelings. It exasperates me because I cannot wait for some atheists to grow up. I am not speaking of you.

I have never (here or in real life) said ANY atheist is angry, hateful, in denial, liars, going to hell. Not. Ever. Nor have I ever attempted to "guilt" anyone into anything. What I want is an honest discussion. And that discussion does not begin with saying people of faith should give up church, pray alone, and read the Bible for themselves. That discussion does not begin with atheists claiming people of faith are afraid of death and are only concerned with heaven and hell. It does not begin by claiming people of religion need to evolve.

 

[ding]

Religion is not at all what atheists say it is.

I wouldn't expect atheist to understand a religion that is not their own any better than I would be able to understand a religion that was not my own. But they think they do.

 

[ding]

Religion is not at all what atheists say it is.

Atheism isn’t at all what theists say it is. But we’ve grown up in your churches and homes. Did you grow up in an atheist home?

Even if you did, that would only explain why you found religion. There is no right answer.

If it makes you feel better, I don’t want to take that away from you. If I can, how deep is your faith? If it doesn’t, grow a pair and quit crying that we are angry, hateful, in denial, liars, going to hell. All these things are just you theists trying to guilt us from having an honest discussion. And sorry we don’t take the words of 11 guys. That’s a cult that turned into religion.

If you can’t have an honest discussion without getting your feelings hurt, don’t come here that’s for sure.

Judging by your actions atheism is about condemning respect for persons of faith.

 

[Meriweather]

I wouldn't expect atheist to understand a religion that is not their own any better than I would be able to understand a religion that was not my own. But they think they do.

I am not great at handling people telling me what I believe--or why I believe the way I do. They can disagree with me all they want about any teaching or issue. I just want them to stop thinking they know what I believe or why I believe it--and truly listen instead of jumping to conclusions that support/suit their own views. My views are not their views, and their views are not my views. They are worth discussing, however, once this is firmly established.

 

[zaangalewa]

The bishops allowed 1000 children to be molested by priests, a grand jury has found.

I might be done with carrying the water of a Church that has failed on such an epic level to live up to their own moral rules.

As long as my father is alive, I will continue to go to Mass with him, because I don't want to break his heart.

But after that, I think I'm done.

You may want to keep in mind that Judas decided he was done, as well. The other eleven decided they had something worth carrying forward. Judas represents eight percent of the Apostles. The number of priests who broke their own vows is far less than that. Leaving the Church because of this would also be a slap in the face to the ninety-seven percent who did not break their vows.

Here is the real deal. I have found in my life there is never one reason for someone to reach a major decision. There are always at least three reasons that push a person into making such a change. Have you pondered what those other two reasons might be that may also be pushing you towards this choice?

Why does one have to belong to any church?

Why does anyone have to belong to any biological life? Christians belong to a spiritual living body. That's the way it is. We are never alone.

Why can't you just read the bible yourself and practice what it says?

Because the most people don't know what's written there when they read the bible. The bible is an important book - but it is not a god. In no book of the world you are able to find your way for example. This book is not written yet. You are writing it. The bible helps you to do decisions - also wrong decisions if you do not speak with others about what you read and how you see the problems of your life. And the greatest paradox: Sometimes wrong ways are the best ways too.

Organized religion was established when most people were illiterate there is no need for it now

People who like to destroy "organization" like to do a very simple thing: "divide et impera". It's easy to break single human beings. And for this people are the bridgebuilders of the world enemies, although they had nothing to destroy without the bridgebuilders and cathedralbuilders of the world.

Don't confuse biology with religion

Why do you say such a sentence without any context to anything what I said? The sentence "Why does anyone have to belong to any biological life?" was an analogy wich showed only the senselessness of such a form of question - that's all.

There is no need to belong to a church

… better to say nothing to this sentence now.

 

[ding]

I wouldn't expect atheist to understand a religion that is not their own any better than I would be able to understand a religion that was not my own. But they think they do.

I am not great at handling people telling me what I believe--or why I believe the way I do. They can disagree with me all they want about any teaching or issue. I just want them to stop thinking they know what I believe or why I believe it--and truly listen instead of jumping to conclusions that support/suit their own views. My views are not their views, and their views are not my views. They are worth discussing, however, once this is firmly established.

Yeah, they're never going to agree to that because they aren't interested in why you believe what you do. They are only interested in proving to themselves they are superior to you.

 

[zaangalewa]

I don’t believe the god of the Bible exists

People who interpret the through they perspective of 21st century culture and modern English are truly ignorant of the God the Bible presents. Which may be why the Bible also advises that each individual seek and search out God in their own lives. Do you think I (or anyone else) believes in the version of God you created via your limited understanding of the Bible?

I’m just saying god never visited Joseph Smith, Mohammad, Mary or Moses

… but sealybobo?

What do you think is the reason why you say "Mother Mary is a godless woman"?

 

[zaangalewa]

I’m just saying god never visited Joseph Smith, Mohammad, Mary or Moses

In three of four of these, you are correct. Joseph Smith was visited by the Angel Moroni; Mary and Muhammad were visited by the Angel Gabriel.

I don't see the same psychology of the archangel Gabriel who visited Mother Mary and of the Gabriel who visited Mohammed. And in case of John Smith the most people who are not Mormons think John Smith was a liar. In case of Moses nearly no one doubts Moses spoke with god.

 

[Meriweather]

Yeah, they're never going to agree to that because they aren't interested in why you believe what you do. They are only interested in proving to themselves they are superior to you.

They do not need to prove themselves. I respect that they cannot believe in God. But that does not mean that they cannot come to a correct understanding of why others believe.

It appears one of the reasons some do not believe is because they misunderstand the point of the Bible, not to mention the stories it contains.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You can do all that without organized religion clergy etc

To me it's puzzling why you all need a priest, pastor or whatever to tell you what the bible says when you are all capable of reading it yourselves

A group is better equipped and able to do more than a single person. The Bible should not be read, but studied. Study groups work well.

Wow how thick are you that you can't understand that you can still work as a group without the hierarchy of a church getting involved?

Or do you need to have a priest take your money and tell you what to do?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Religion is not at all what atheists say it is.

Religion is business
a business that has convinced you you need to give it your money

 

[Skull Pilot]

Religion is not at all what atheists say it is.

I wouldn't expect atheist to understand a religion that is not their own any better than I would be able to understand a religion that was not my own. But they think they do.

You do know that many atheists were actually raised into a religion don;t you?

I understand religion and that is the reason I want nothing to do with it

 

[Meriweather]

Wow how thick are you that you can't understand that you can still work as a group without the hierarchy of a church getting involved?

Or do you need to have a priest take your money and tell you what to do?

Tell me why you are against hierarchy. Are you against it in schools? In government? In other clubs and organizations? Or is it just the Church? Whenever a huge mass of people gather for a purpose, hierarchy develops. They are as much a part of the group as anyone else. Do you even understand how "hierarchy" works in the Catholic Church?

 

[Meriweather]

Religion is business
a business that has convinced you you need to give it your money

The Red Cross is a business as well. Are you recommending I stop given them money as well? Why do we need the Red Cross to show up in disaster areas? Can't we all just show up at the disaster nearest us and be as effective as any coordinated effort?

 

[Meriweather]

I understand religion and that is the reason I want nothing to do with it

You don't appear to understand it at all. You see it as a business out to take your money.

On the other hand, I see it as a community that helped to bring me closer to God and His purpose. The problem throughout history is that creation has always had a way of blinding us to its creator. I don't know how or why it happened, but it appears something prevented you from seeing past creation--i.e., maybe the religious services, programs, or building projects? Creation is all well and good--but not effective when it blinds us to the Creator.

 

[ding]

Religion is not at all what atheists say it is.

I wouldn't expect atheist to understand a religion that is not their own any better than I would be able to understand a religion that was not my own. But they think they do.

You do know that many atheists were actually raised into a religion don;t you?

I understand religion and that is the reason I want nothing to do with it

Yes, and I know they probably never understood it. I’ve yet to hear one who was objective about it.

 

[ding]

Religion is not at all what atheists say it is.

Religion is business
a business that has convinced you you need to give it your money

Thank you for proving my point. You lack objectivity.