If God doesn't exist...

[indiajo]

The point about language is a good one.

If you tell people there was nothing before the big bang they assume 'you mean a vacuum of empty space'. And no it means there was not even empty space. There was literally nothing. It is very hard for the human mind to grasp such a concept.

There are many things we don't know yet, but one can't then argue 'the god of the gaps' in our knowledge. Meaning many people will assert 'well if we don't know then that mean it was god'. No, it means we don't know yet, just as we didn't know what caused disease 300 years ago.

We do know the universe is 13.7 billion years old and there are hundreds of billions of galaxies, each with hundreds of billions of stars.

To believe in any god, you have to believe it was all put in motion and allowed to continue on for 13.7 billion years to wait specifically for humans to arrive or be placed on the scene. And all those other galaxies, stars, and planets billions of light years away are just stage dressing so 13.7 billion years later we'd have something to look at.

That is quite a leap.

Sincerely, thank you.

 

[BreezeWood]

The point about language is a good one.

If you tell people there was nothing before the big bang they assume 'you mean a vacuum of empty space'. And no it means there was not even empty space. There was literally nothing. It is very hard for the human mind to grasp such a concept.

There are many things we don't know yet, but one can't then argue 'the god of the gaps' in our knowledge. Meaning many people will assert 'well if we don't know then that mean it was god'. No, it means we don't know yet, just as we didn't know what caused disease 300 years ago.

We do know the universe is 13.7 billion years old and there are hundreds of billions of galaxies, each with hundreds of billions of stars.

To believe in any god, you have to believe it was all put in motion and allowed to continue on for 13.7 billion years to wait specifically for humans to arrive or be placed on the scene. And all those other galaxies, stars, and planets billions of light years away are just stage dressing so 13.7 billion years later we'd have something to look at.

That is quite a leap.

Sincerely, thank you.

.
We do know the universe is 13.7 billion years old and there are hundreds of billions of galaxies, each with hundreds of billions of stars.


13.7 billion (years) just does not seem a long enough time for the above, the age of the universe someday should just be considered as indeterminable as it will forever become older and older with new discoveries ...

.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

So you're pretty messed up as well.
Everything came from the Big Bang... until further notice.

Which still leaves the OP question unanswered.

I'm still going with a miracle occurred...

*****CHUCKLE*****

 

[RWS]

The most important thing to remember, is that those of us who adhere to science, will not be willing to kill everyone on the planet due to a transgression about a supernatural being.

 

[HUGGY]

...and science holds the answer to all questions....

Then what kick started the universe?

After all we wouldn't want to violate one of Newton's three laws now would we?

If the scientific answer at this time is we don't know...

Then doesn't that mean a miracle occurred?

*****CHUCKLE*****

"Then what kick started the universe?"

Yo Mama.

 

[Mudda]

...and science holds the answer to all questions....

Then what kick started the universe?

After all we wouldn't want to violate one of Newton's three laws now would we?

If the scientific answer at this time is we don't know...

Then doesn't that mean a miracle occurred?

*****CHUCKLE*****

That we don't know the how or the why yet doesn't automatically point to an invisible being that wants us to obey it or burn.

Ex: the Big Bang could be the result of a super massive black hole that explodes and spits out new time and space, or the time and space that it sucked in... No invisible person waving a magic wand necessary.
Not saying that it's not possible that the universe isn't made by some person we can't see... Just that the lack of proof either way leaves us still searching for the answer.

 

[ding]

...and science holds the answer to all questions....

Then what kick started the universe?

After all we wouldn't want to violate one of Newton's three laws now would we?

If the scientific answer at this time is we don't know...

Then doesn't that mean a miracle occurred?

*****CHUCKLE*****

That we don't know the how or the why yet doesn't automatically point to an invisible being that wants us to obey it or burn.

Ex: the Big Bang could be the result of a super massive black hole that explodes and spits out new time and space, or the time and space that it sucked in... No invisible person waving a magic wand necessary.
Not saying that it's not possible that the universe isn't made by some person we can't see... Just that the lack of proof either way leaves us still searching for the answer.

But the laws of nature which came into existence at the moment space and time were created and pre-destined beings that know and create does.

 

[Mudda]

...and science holds the answer to all questions....

Then what kick started the universe?

After all we wouldn't want to violate one of Newton's three laws now would we?

If the scientific answer at this time is we don't know...

Then doesn't that mean a miracle occurred?

*****CHUCKLE*****

That we don't know the how or the why yet doesn't automatically point to an invisible being that wants us to obey it or burn.

Ex: the Big Bang could be the result of a super massive black hole that explodes and spits out new time and space, or the time and space that it sucked in... No invisible person waving a magic wand necessary.
Not saying that it's not possible that the universe isn't made by some person we can't see... Just that the lack of proof either way leaves us still searching for the answer.

But the laws of nature which came into existence at the moment space and time were created and pre-destined beings that know and create does.

Maybe those laws of nature existed before our universe was created, and have also created other universes. Maybe there's no invisible being overseeing our particular universe and hoping we worship it.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

That we don't know the how or the why yet doesn't automatically point to an invisible being that wants us to obey it or burn.

Ex: the Big Bang could be the result of a super massive black hole that explodes and spits out new time and space, or the time and space that it sucked in... No invisible person waving a magic wand necessary.
Not saying that it's not possible that the universe isn't made by some person we can't see... Just that the lack of proof either way leaves us still searching for the answer.

Where have I suggested that God is an invisible being?

*****CHUCKLE*****

 

[Damaged Eagle]

space!

According to 'theory' time, matter, and space, did not exist prior to the Big Bang.

Looks like you're asking people to accept a 'Creation Theory' to me.

*****CHUCKLE*****

 

[Damaged Eagle]

Maybe those laws of nature existed before our universe was created, and have also created other universes. Maybe there's no invisible being overseeing our particular universe and hoping we worship it.

Oh!!!!! So now there are laws that we are required to follow and some invisible "higher(?)" planes of existence (that may or may not exist) too at the alter of scientific theology!

*****CHUCKLE*****

 

[HUGGY]

space!

View attachment 97230

According to 'theory' time, matter, and space, did not exist prior to the Big Bang.

Looks like you're asking people to accept a 'Creation Theory' to me.

*****CHUCKLE*****

Not at all. MY theory is that the "bang" got started with an imbalance in the energy of what was and started a chain reaction into what we have now. I see no evidence that there was any conscious aspect to the Bang. There is and therefore was no creation, intelligent or otherwise.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

Not at all. MY theory is that the "bang" got started with an imbalance in the energy of what was and started a chain reaction into what we have now. I see no evidence that there was any conscious aspect to the Bang. There is and therefore was no creation, intelligent or otherwise.

space!

Still sounds like you want everyone to believe that everything just started spontaneously and violate Newton's Laws Of Motion while you're at it too.

Sounds like Creationism to me.

*****CHUCKLE*****

 

[RWS]

Newton's laws are based on observations of matter in the state that we know it.

The period of expansion was before matter was formed and was just quantum particles.

Once it coalesced into matter, it followed Newtonian physics.

What part are you chuckling about.

 

[BreezeWood]

Newton's laws are based on observations of matter in the state that we know it.

The period of expansion was before matter was formed and was just quantum particles.

Once it coalesced into matter, it followed Newtonian physics.

What part are you chuckling about.

.

What part are you chuckling about.

hu-o, someone else aready beat you to it - had no effect ...


forces such as gravity may always exist not necessarily matter.

.

 

[james bond]

In 6000 years, we can only witness natural selection.

We cannot see evolution in such a short span of time. That takes millions of years of natural selection to separate a species.

Yet we have dogs, cats, wolves, lions, bears, meerkats, fish, bacteria, and apple trees. That took a very loooong time. Definitely not 6000 years.

Unless Santa the Creator can poof things into existence exactly as they were 6000 years ago, and bury fossils for fun and giggles, and completely make astronomy and physics be an illusion.

Ha ha. You can't even get evolution right in your first example. They have not been able to explain the dog.

"The origin of man's best friend has been a source of wonder and heated debate for centuries.

Even Charles Darwin was unsure whether the dog's true ancestry could be determined, because dog breeds vary so greatly. In fact, the domestic dog is far more variable in size, shape and behavior than any other living mammal, according to James Serpell, professor at the University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine and editor of "The Domestic Dog: Its Evolution, Behaviour, and Interactions With People" (Cambridge University Press, 1995)."

How Did Dogs Get to Be Dogs?

Here's the website that I used to learn about evolution. Why don't you read up on it first before shooting off your piehole ha ha?

Welcome to Evolution 101!

I included those organisms in order on purpose. Dogs and cats are a creation of human natural selection. This is the type of selection we normally see in our lifetimes. Though other forms of natural selection, like white and brown moths, occur because of our activity and not us necessarily meddling in their mating rituals. Most of the forms we see of natural selection that occurred in our lifetimes are created by human needs and wastes.

But differentiating a species takes millions of years. Dogs can still mate with wolves. If God created perfect organisms, then there is no need for natural selection. As He would have made them perfect from the get-go.

So allowing natural selection in your 6000-yr Earther doctrine, just means that you need it to continue your argument, but don't want to accept full-blown evolution.

Whatever you read on your religious websites about science, cannot be taken seriously until you know the science. Copy/pasting junk like that just shows that you have no idea what's going on in the world besides your birth-given religion...

What if you were born into a different religion? Would you still believe the stuff you're saying?

>>Dogs and cats are a creation of human natural selection.<<

There is no human natural selection.

 

[BreezeWood]

In 6000 years, we can only witness natural selection.

We cannot see evolution in such a short span of time. That takes millions of years of natural selection to separate a species.

Yet we have dogs, cats, wolves, lions, bears, meerkats, fish, bacteria, and apple trees. That took a very loooong time. Definitely not 6000 years.

Unless Santa the Creator can poof things into existence exactly as they were 6000 years ago, and bury fossils for fun and giggles, and completely make astronomy and physics be an illusion.

Ha ha. You can't even get evolution right in your first example. They have not been able to explain the dog.

"The origin of man's best friend has been a source of wonder and heated debate for centuries.

Even Charles Darwin was unsure whether the dog's true ancestry could be determined, because dog breeds vary so greatly. In fact, the domestic dog is far more variable in size, shape and behavior than any other living mammal, according to James Serpell, professor at the University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine and editor of "The Domestic Dog: Its Evolution, Behaviour, and Interactions With People" (Cambridge University Press, 1995)."

How Did Dogs Get to Be Dogs?

Here's the website that I used to learn about evolution. Why don't you read up on it first before shooting off your piehole ha ha?

Welcome to Evolution 101!

I included those organisms in order on purpose. Dogs and cats are a creation of human natural selection. This is the type of selection we normally see in our lifetimes. Though other forms of natural selection, like white and brown moths, occur because of our activity and not us necessarily meddling in their mating rituals. Most of the forms we see of natural selection that occurred in our lifetimes are created by human needs and wastes.

But differentiating a species takes millions of years. Dogs can still mate with wolves. If God created perfect organisms, then there is no need for natural selection. As He would have made them perfect from the get-go.

So allowing natural selection in your 6000-yr Earther doctrine, just means that you need it to continue your argument, but don't want to accept full-blown evolution.

Whatever you read on your religious websites about science, cannot be taken seriously until you know the science. Copy/pasting junk like that just shows that you have no idea what's going on in the world besides your birth-given religion...

What if you were born into a different religion? Would you still believe the stuff you're saying?

>>Dogs and cats are a creation of human natural selection.<<

There is no human natural selection.

.

There is no human natural selection.

Body Size Changes Among National Collegiate Athletic Association New England Division III Football Players, 1956-2014: Comparison With Age-Matched ... - PubMed - NCBI

Body Size Changes Among National Collegiate Athletic Association New England Division III Football Players, 1956-2014: Comparison With Age-Matched Population Controls.

RESULTS: Among NESCAC linemen, absolute and relative changes over time in body weight and body mass index exceeded corresponding changes in the NHANES population controls. New England Small College Athletic Conference offensive linemen body weights increased by 37.5% from 1956 to 2014 (192 to 264 lb [86.4 to 118.8 kg]),

offensive linemen body weights increased by 37.5% from 1956 to 2014



of course not bond, that's why Alabama selects the 2 star athletes the same as for the 5 star's ... .

.

 

[RWS]

In 6000 years, we can only witness natural selection.

We cannot see evolution in such a short span of time. That takes millions of years of natural selection to separate a species.

Yet we have dogs, cats, wolves, lions, bears, meerkats, fish, bacteria, and apple trees. That took a very loooong time. Definitely not 6000 years.

Unless Santa the Creator can poof things into existence exactly as they were 6000 years ago, and bury fossils for fun and giggles, and completely make astronomy and physics be an illusion.

Ha ha. You can't even get evolution right in your first example. They have not been able to explain the dog.

"The origin of man's best friend has been a source of wonder and heated debate for centuries.

Even Charles Darwin was unsure whether the dog's true ancestry could be determined, because dog breeds vary so greatly. In fact, the domestic dog is far more variable in size, shape and behavior than any other living mammal, according to James Serpell, professor at the University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine and editor of "The Domestic Dog: Its Evolution, Behaviour, and Interactions With People" (Cambridge University Press, 1995)."

How Did Dogs Get to Be Dogs?

Here's the website that I used to learn about evolution. Why don't you read up on it first before shooting off your piehole ha ha?

Welcome to Evolution 101!

I included those organisms in order on purpose. Dogs and cats are a creation of human natural selection. This is the type of selection we normally see in our lifetimes. Though other forms of natural selection, like white and brown moths, occur because of our activity and not us necessarily meddling in their mating rituals. Most of the forms we see of natural selection that occurred in our lifetimes are created by human needs and wastes.

But differentiating a species takes millions of years. Dogs can still mate with wolves. If God created perfect organisms, then there is no need for natural selection. As He would have made them perfect from the get-go.

So allowing natural selection in your 6000-yr Earther doctrine, just means that you need it to continue your argument, but don't want to accept full-blown evolution.

Whatever you read on your religious websites about science, cannot be taken seriously until you know the science. Copy/pasting junk like that just shows that you have no idea what's going on in the world besides your birth-given religion...

What if you were born into a different religion? Would you still believe the stuff you're saying?

>>Dogs and cats are a creation of human natural selection.<<

There is no human natural selection.

Are you serious?!? How did wolves become domesticated dogs then, and their hundreds of subsequent breeds? And fluffy cats too...

Now I think you're just trollin dude...

Give it up.

 

[RWS]

Did i win this shit? Just kiddin!

 

[onefour1]

Perhaps creation means to take of materials that already exist (have always existed) and make something. Perhaps the idea of creation ex nihilo (creation out of nothing) is a false notion. Maybe God is the great organizer of the universe. Watch this video series on the problems of ex nihilo creation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWsQiyc832k&list=PLbpyH--hzXKWn2jm8BClH9MxxLwwWnAea