If God doesn't exist...

[ding]

Do you believe 100% in thermodynamic science? Why is it you doubt all other sciences but you put all your eggs in the thermodynamic basket?

"The state of entropy of the entire universe, as an isolated system, will always increase over time." Who says? Who says it won't slow down or stop eventually? Is that a fact or scientific consensus?

I'm pretty sure I have forgotten more science then you will ever know. So your I don't believe in science argument rings a little hollow. I've been a practicing engineer for over 30 years. What exactly have you done which makes you an expert on science?

Are you serious? If you're a practicing engineer, basing your measurements on stuff you hope is true based on what your parents told you upon birth, then I do not want to ride in your car...

That's good because I don't build cars.

happinessbeyondthought: How "consciousness" creates matter...the God particle?

Are you still serious? You know the "God particle" has nothing to do with "god", right? It was just an unfortunate term in a book?

The Higgs Boson and the Nobel: Why We Call It the 'God Particle'

It took off because religious people thought that there could actually be a particle that proved "god"!

But it has nothing to do with "god" or anything else supernatural!!! It has to do with the way a particle interacts with space-time to create mass!

It's good that you're not engineering cars, or any other moving thing (i hope). What exactly are you engineering?

Im noticing a lot of usmb Republicans claim to be engineers. I'm calling bullshit here and now

I don't know of anyone else who has made this claim and I don't care if you believe me or not. What do you do for a living?

 

[sealybobo]

Per Wiki, there are approximately 4,200 religions in the world.

Now, using that as a number going forward, and based on the meaning of being devoted to a religion, and that each one believes that their's is infallibly correct, that means that 4,199 of them are flat-out wrong!!!

Wow...

And given enough prodding, they're willing to kill the other 4,199 religions, and all the people that believe in them, just to prove they're right!

They all have common elements because there are natural laws. You seem more than ready to blame religion for the bad but very reluctant to give religion any credit for the good.

Despite the fact that you are making a fringe argument, your argument has two major flaws which are common to all critical theory arguments; 1. your analysis was made in a vacuum; 2. what you did analyze lacked objectivity.

Religion promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness. Religion is responsible for the creation of wonderful charities and organizations which serve the betterment of man. Religious persons and institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions. Religious persons and institutions have been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing. Religion gave us the concept of subsidiarity and has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility Religion teaches accountability and responsibility. Religion teaches that we have a choice in how we behave and that actions have consequences. Religion inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe and helps us feel connected to one another and to nature through regular community gatherings. Religion helps us feel less alone in the world by binding the community together. Religion serves to ennoble the human spirit and inspires love, peace and happiness. Religion brings order to our lives by promoting the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness and humility. Religion brings comfort to the terminally ill and can act as a source of hope for the oppressed. Religion teaches that we can transform ourselves. That it is possible to change for the better. Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon. No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church. Modern science was born in the Catholic Church. Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market. The Catholic Church invented the university. Western law grew out of Church canon law. The Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life. The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources. Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians. Religion gave us America. Religion gave us incredible artwork, music and architecture. Christianity has spread democracy throughout the world. Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression and rebuilt Europe and Japan after WWII. Christians put a man on the moon and ended the cold war.

So getting back to my point that your argument has two major flaws; your argument that God and religion have done little good is not objective and you have yet to tell us what good the alternative to religion has done. Exactly what has atheism done? Because as near as I can tell, atheism's claim to fame is murdering 200 million people in the 20th century.

An atheist was the first to suggest we weren't the center of the universe and stars were other Suns. Religion killed them for suggesting such blasphemy and herisy.

Imagine we are in Iraq living under sharia law. You the devout Muslim is arguing how Islam is doing more harm than good. Do you agree? And agree or not does that make Islam any less fake? How much comfort a lie gives you or us doesn't change the fact it's a lie. And maybe that lie is holding you/us back?

 

[sealybobo]

I'm pretty sure I have forgotten more science then you will ever know. So your I don't believe in science argument rings a little hollow. I've been a practicing engineer for over 30 years. What exactly have you done which makes you an expert on science?

Are you serious? If you're a practicing engineer, basing your measurements on stuff you hope is true based on what your parents told you upon birth, then I do not want to ride in your car...

That's good because I don't build cars.

happinessbeyondthought: How "consciousness" creates matter...the God particle?

Are you still serious? You know the "God particle" has nothing to do with "god", right? It was just an unfortunate term in a book?

The Higgs Boson and the Nobel: Why We Call It the 'God Particle'

It took off because religious people thought that there could actually be a particle that proved "god"!

But it has nothing to do with "god" or anything else supernatural!!! It has to do with the way a particle interacts with space-time to create mass!

It's good that you're not engineering cars, or any other moving thing (i hope). What exactly are you engineering?

Im noticing a lot of usmb Republicans claim to be engineers. I'm calling bullshit here and now

I don't know of anyone else who has made this claim and I don't care if you believe me or not. What do you do for a living?

I sell machines that measure important parts. Cmm's

 

[ding]

So He doesn't exist, doesn't care, is unaware, likes the savagery, or is just a really bad Player in the Universal God Game.

We should be travelling to other star systems by now. Except that religion keeps erasing our knowledge for the benefit of the ruler.

We have to start over every 1000 years or so.... Why?

That is an idiotic statement. The external locus of control is strong in this one.

You support the omnipotent benevolent God, do you not?

And being an engineer, you know the mass reboots we have undertaken as a species based on religious genocide and wiping out of prior knowledge, right?

And where we could possibly be at this point in terms of medicine and science, if those religious reboots never happened?

So where was your omnipotent and benevolent God, during the times of human crisis?

And if he just lets us do our own thing without intervention, and roots for those that believe in him, then that means he doesn't care.

Or he doesn't have the power to care.

Or maybe, He likes seeing the evil and destruction he can cause in his video game of our universe, before he has to go to dinner.

Or... maybe... he just doesn't exist? And we made Him up to explain stuff we haven't yet explained?


Why is the idea of "God" being real, important to you?

No. I am more of a deist. I believe the laws of nature or such that people like yourself will eventually suffer the predictable surprises of normalizing their deviance.

As an engineer I see the natural cycles that have occurred throughout man's history and the role that violating the moral law plays in it. As an engineer I see how you use critical theory to criticize everything that you don't believe to justify what you do believe and convince yourself that you are using critical thinking. You're not. Critical thinking is challenging what you do believe to test its validity. You don't have a positive argument for your beliefs. You have negative arguments for what you don't believe such as your path not taken argument you are making now.

No, that doesn't mean He doesn't care. It means that it is not virtuous if we are made to be virtuous. Don't worry, the laws of compensation are such that virtue is increasing. It just isn't in a straight line. It is cyclical. It is Darwinian.

The reality is that there is plenty of evidence for His existence. You just don't accept any of it, but regardless, you are being pruned by Him through the natural laws of right and wrong, even if you don't recognize it or accept it.

Give us the 3-5 pieces of evidence you have for God's existence.

For example I could give you a list of 1000 pieces of scientific evidence that evolution is real. Give me your top 3-5. Short list

Nothing you present is going to prove there must be a creator. We've seen all the arguments.

And I'll even give you there could be a creator. That is one possibility. What evidence do you have?

I don't deny evolution. I don't see any inconsistencies at all. I believe we live in a universe where the laws of nature are such that given enough time that beings that know and create will eventually arise. This means that beings that know and create were predestined by the laws of nature the moment that space and time were created. I have already explained to you the source of my evidence. Creation itself and everything in it and everything that has happened since it was created is my evidence. The universe is a self-referential system which behaves like a mind. I believe that Mind, rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create. I believe that consciousness is evolving just like every phase in the evolution of matter evolved before it. I believe that the purpose of the universe is consciousness and the evolution of consciousness. The process that controls this evolution is called Natural Law.

Can you make a positive argument for why you believe there is no creator?

 

[sealybobo]

I'm pretty sure I have forgotten more science then you will ever know. So your I don't believe in science argument rings a little hollow. I've been a practicing engineer for over 30 years. What exactly have you done which makes you an expert on science?

Are you serious? If you're a practicing engineer, basing your measurements on stuff you hope is true based on what your parents told you upon birth, then I do not want to ride in your car...

That's good because I don't build cars.

happinessbeyondthought: How "consciousness" creates matter...the God particle?

Are you still serious? You know the "God particle" has nothing to do with "god", right? It was just an unfortunate term in a book?

The Higgs Boson and the Nobel: Why We Call It the 'God Particle'

It took off because religious people thought that there could actually be a particle that proved "god"!

But it has nothing to do with "god" or anything else supernatural!!! It has to do with the way a particle interacts with space-time to create mass!

It's good that you're not engineering cars, or any other moving thing (i hope). What exactly are you engineering?

Im noticing a lot of usmb Republicans claim to be engineers. I'm calling bullshit here and now

I don't know of anyone else who has made this claim and I don't care if you believe me or not. What do you do for a living?

Lots of usmb right wingers do. If I'm arguing science evolution or global warming they say they are a scientist. Turns out they are in IT. Lol or a janitor. Or they work for an engineer. When someone calls us for tech support I say let me connect you with an engineer

 

[ding]

Are you serious? If you're a practicing engineer, basing your measurements on stuff you hope is true based on what your parents told you upon birth, then I do not want to ride in your car...

That's good because I don't build cars.

happinessbeyondthought: How "consciousness" creates matter...the God particle?

Are you still serious? You know the "God particle" has nothing to do with "god", right? It was just an unfortunate term in a book?

The Higgs Boson and the Nobel: Why We Call It the 'God Particle'

It took off because religious people thought that there could actually be a particle that proved "god"!

But it has nothing to do with "god" or anything else supernatural!!! It has to do with the way a particle interacts with space-time to create mass!

It's good that you're not engineering cars, or any other moving thing (i hope). What exactly are you engineering?

Im noticing a lot of usmb Republicans claim to be engineers. I'm calling bullshit here and now

I don't know of anyone else who has made this claim and I don't care if you believe me or not. What do you do for a living?

I sell machines that measure important parts. Cmm's

You mean like CNC systems?

 

[sealybobo]

That's good because I don't build cars.

happinessbeyondthought: How "consciousness" creates matter...the God particle?

Are you still serious? You know the "God particle" has nothing to do with "god", right? It was just an unfortunate term in a book?

The Higgs Boson and the Nobel: Why We Call It the 'God Particle'

It took off because religious people thought that there could actually be a particle that proved "god"!

But it has nothing to do with "god" or anything else supernatural!!! It has to do with the way a particle interacts with space-time to create mass!

It's good that you're not engineering cars, or any other moving thing (i hope). What exactly are you engineering?

Im noticing a lot of usmb Republicans claim to be engineers. I'm calling bullshit here and now

I don't know of anyone else who has made this claim and I don't care if you believe me or not. What do you do for a living?

I sell machines that measure important parts. Cmm's

You mean like CNC systems?

No coordinate measurement machines but close

 

[sealybobo]

So He doesn't exist, doesn't care, is unaware, likes the savagery, or is just a really bad Player in the Universal God Game.

We should be travelling to other star systems by now. Except that religion keeps erasing our knowledge for the benefit of the ruler.

We have to start over every 1000 years or so.... Why?

That is an idiotic statement. The external locus of control is strong in this one.

You support the omnipotent benevolent God, do you not?

And being an engineer, you know the mass reboots we have undertaken as a species based on religious genocide and wiping out of prior knowledge, right?

And where we could possibly be at this point in terms of medicine and science, if those religious reboots never happened?

So where was your omnipotent and benevolent God, during the times of human crisis?

And if he just lets us do our own thing without intervention, and roots for those that believe in him, then that means he doesn't care.

Or he doesn't have the power to care.

Or maybe, He likes seeing the evil and destruction he can cause in his video game of our universe, before he has to go to dinner.

Or... maybe... he just doesn't exist? And we made Him up to explain stuff we haven't yet explained?


Why is the idea of "God" being real, important to you?

No. I am more of a deist. I believe the laws of nature or such that people like yourself will eventually suffer the predictable surprises of normalizing their deviance.

As an engineer I see the natural cycles that have occurred throughout man's history and the role that violating the moral law plays in it. As an engineer I see how you use critical theory to criticize everything that you don't believe to justify what you do believe and convince yourself that you are using critical thinking. You're not. Critical thinking is challenging what you do believe to test its validity. You don't have a positive argument for your beliefs. You have negative arguments for what you don't believe such as your path not taken argument you are making now.

No, that doesn't mean He doesn't care. It means that it is not virtuous if we are made to be virtuous. Don't worry, the laws of compensation are such that virtue is increasing. It just isn't in a straight line. It is cyclical. It is Darwinian.

The reality is that there is plenty of evidence for His existence. You just don't accept any of it, but regardless, you are being pruned by Him through the natural laws of right and wrong, even if you don't recognize it or accept it.

Give us the 3-5 pieces of evidence you have for God's existence.

For example I could give you a list of 1000 pieces of scientific evidence that evolution is real. Give me your top 3-5. Short list

Nothing you present is going to prove there must be a creator. We've seen all the arguments.

And I'll even give you there could be a creator. That is one possibility. What evidence do you have?

I don't deny evolution. I don't see any inconsistencies at all. I believe we live in a universe where the laws of nature are such that given enough time that beings that know and create will eventually arise. This means that beings that know and create were predestined by the laws of nature the moment that space and time were created. I have already explained to you the source of my evidence. Creation itself and everything in it and everything that has happened since it was created is my evidence. The universe is a self-referential system which behaves like a mind. I believe that Mind, rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create. I believe that consciousness is evolving just like every phase in the evolution of matter evolved before it. I believe that the purpose of the universe is consciousness and the evolution of consciousness. The process that controls this evolution is called Natural Law.

Can you make a positive argument for why you believe there is no creator?

God may not be necessary for universes to exist. It seems like based on human minds we made this up. It was what we concluded a long time ago and we've believed it for so long without any evidence. And because we didn't have evidence moses manufactured evidence and the abrahamic religions were all born. No more multiple gods.

Maybe universes just occur and life occurs. It sucks but the truth is this is unknowable. But remember your God doesn't send me to hell for eternity just for not believing, does he?

 

[ding]

Per Wiki, there are approximately 4,200 religions in the world.

Now, using that as a number going forward, and based on the meaning of being devoted to a religion, and that each one believes that their's is infallibly correct, that means that 4,199 of them are flat-out wrong!!!

Wow...

And given enough prodding, they're willing to kill the other 4,199 religions, and all the people that believe in them, just to prove they're right!

They all have common elements because there are natural laws. You seem more than ready to blame religion for the bad but very reluctant to give religion any credit for the good.

Despite the fact that you are making a fringe argument, your argument has two major flaws which are common to all critical theory arguments; 1. your analysis was made in a vacuum; 2. what you did analyze lacked objectivity.

Religion promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness. Religion is responsible for the creation of wonderful charities and organizations which serve the betterment of man. Religious persons and institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions. Religious persons and institutions have been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing. Religion gave us the concept of subsidiarity and has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility Religion teaches accountability and responsibility. Religion teaches that we have a choice in how we behave and that actions have consequences. Religion inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe and helps us feel connected to one another and to nature through regular community gatherings. Religion helps us feel less alone in the world by binding the community together. Religion serves to ennoble the human spirit and inspires love, peace and happiness. Religion brings order to our lives by promoting the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness and humility. Religion brings comfort to the terminally ill and can act as a source of hope for the oppressed. Religion teaches that we can transform ourselves. That it is possible to change for the better. Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon. No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church. Modern science was born in the Catholic Church. Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market. The Catholic Church invented the university. Western law grew out of Church canon law. The Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life. The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources. Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians. Religion gave us America. Religion gave us incredible artwork, music and architecture. Christianity has spread democracy throughout the world. Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression and rebuilt Europe and Japan after WWII. Christians put a man on the moon and ended the cold war.

So getting back to my point that your argument has two major flaws; your argument that God and religion have done little good is not objective and you have yet to tell us what good the alternative to religion has done. Exactly what has atheism done? Because as near as I can tell, atheism's claim to fame is murdering 200 million people in the 20th century.

An atheist was the first to suggest we weren't the center of the universe and stars were other Suns. Religion killed them for suggesting such blasphemy and herisy.

Imagine we are in Iraq living under sharia law. You the devout Muslim is arguing how Islam is doing more harm than good. Do you agree? And agree or not does that make Islam any less fake? How much comfort a lie gives you or us doesn't change the fact it's a lie. And maybe that lie is holding you/us back?

Again... you are making a critical theory argument. Your argument has two major flaws; your argument that God and religion have done little good is not objective and you have yet to tell us what good the alternative to religion has done. Exactly what has atheism done? Because as near as I can tell, atheism's claim to fame is murdering 200 million people in the 20th century.

Why do you believe that an atheist was the first to suggest we weren't the center of the universe and stars were other Suns and that religion killed them for suggesting such blasphemy and heresy. If you are talking about Galileo, I don't believe you have your facts correct.

 

[ding]

Are you still serious? You know the "God particle" has nothing to do with "god", right? It was just an unfortunate term in a book?

The Higgs Boson and the Nobel: Why We Call It the 'God Particle'

It took off because religious people thought that there could actually be a particle that proved "god"!

But it has nothing to do with "god" or anything else supernatural!!! It has to do with the way a particle interacts with space-time to create mass!

It's good that you're not engineering cars, or any other moving thing (i hope). What exactly are you engineering?

Im noticing a lot of usmb Republicans claim to be engineers. I'm calling bullshit here and now

I don't know of anyone else who has made this claim and I don't care if you believe me or not. What do you do for a living?

I sell machines that measure important parts. Cmm's

You mean like CNC systems?

No coordinate measurement machines but close

Sure, but they are used in CNC applications, right?

 

[ding]

That is an idiotic statement. The external locus of control is strong in this one.

You support the omnipotent benevolent God, do you not?

And being an engineer, you know the mass reboots we have undertaken as a species based on religious genocide and wiping out of prior knowledge, right?

And where we could possibly be at this point in terms of medicine and science, if those religious reboots never happened?

So where was your omnipotent and benevolent God, during the times of human crisis?

And if he just lets us do our own thing without intervention, and roots for those that believe in him, then that means he doesn't care.

Or he doesn't have the power to care.

Or maybe, He likes seeing the evil and destruction he can cause in his video game of our universe, before he has to go to dinner.

Or... maybe... he just doesn't exist? And we made Him up to explain stuff we haven't yet explained?


Why is the idea of "God" being real, important to you?

No. I am more of a deist. I believe the laws of nature or such that people like yourself will eventually suffer the predictable surprises of normalizing their deviance.

As an engineer I see the natural cycles that have occurred throughout man's history and the role that violating the moral law plays in it. As an engineer I see how you use critical theory to criticize everything that you don't believe to justify what you do believe and convince yourself that you are using critical thinking. You're not. Critical thinking is challenging what you do believe to test its validity. You don't have a positive argument for your beliefs. You have negative arguments for what you don't believe such as your path not taken argument you are making now.

No, that doesn't mean He doesn't care. It means that it is not virtuous if we are made to be virtuous. Don't worry, the laws of compensation are such that virtue is increasing. It just isn't in a straight line. It is cyclical. It is Darwinian.

The reality is that there is plenty of evidence for His existence. You just don't accept any of it, but regardless, you are being pruned by Him through the natural laws of right and wrong, even if you don't recognize it or accept it.

Give us the 3-5 pieces of evidence you have for God's existence.

For example I could give you a list of 1000 pieces of scientific evidence that evolution is real. Give me your top 3-5. Short list

Nothing you present is going to prove there must be a creator. We've seen all the arguments.

And I'll even give you there could be a creator. That is one possibility. What evidence do you have?

I don't deny evolution. I don't see any inconsistencies at all. I believe we live in a universe where the laws of nature are such that given enough time that beings that know and create will eventually arise. This means that beings that know and create were predestined by the laws of nature the moment that space and time were created. I have already explained to you the source of my evidence. Creation itself and everything in it and everything that has happened since it was created is my evidence. The universe is a self-referential system which behaves like a mind. I believe that Mind, rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create. I believe that consciousness is evolving just like every phase in the evolution of matter evolved before it. I believe that the purpose of the universe is consciousness and the evolution of consciousness. The process that controls this evolution is called Natural Law.

Can you make a positive argument for why you believe there is no creator?

God may not be necessary for universes to exist. It seems like based on human minds we made this up. It was what we concluded a long time ago and we've believed it for so long without any evidence. And because we didn't have evidence moses manufactured evidence and the abrahamic religions were all born. No more multiple gods.

Maybe universes just occur and life occurs. It sucks but the truth is this is unknowable. But remember your God doesn't send me to hell for eternity just for not believing, does he?

They had the exact same evidence we have. The only evidence anyone will ever have. Human beings today are not much different than human beings 10,000 years ago. The human condition has been known to us a very long time. You are presuming that the writings in the Bible are literal. You assume that when they spoke of God's vengeance they literally believed that God was personally responsible for smiting them. The problem is they would know that when they violated the moral law nothing bad happened to them. Often times they got away with it. Just like we do today. That doesn't mean there is no moral law. It only means that the consequences of violating it are not immediate. It also doesn't mean there are no consequences either. We know from our own experiences that people who behave without virtue will naturally suffer predictable consequences. It may seem like a surprise to them but we all know that if you cheat or steal or kill long enough, your actions will have consequences. So while you read the Bible literally, I don't. I understand that the Bible is a how to book. It is not a book of fairy tales. It is a book of profound wisdom.

I don't know what heaven and hell are. My human mind cannot comprehend anything outside of space and time. The best I can say is that our matter was created at the moment space and time were created and that when we die the energy that animates us will either return to the creator or it won't. Heaven is being joined with the source of our energy. Hell is being separated from the source of our energy. Based on what I know, He does not destroy what He creates.

 

[sealybobo]

Per Wiki, there are approximately 4,200 religions in the world.

Now, using that as a number going forward, and based on the meaning of being devoted to a religion, and that each one believes that their's is infallibly correct, that means that 4,199 of them are flat-out wrong!!!

Wow...

And given enough prodding, they're willing to kill the other 4,199 religions, and all the people that believe in them, just to prove they're right!

They all have common elements because there are natural laws. You seem more than ready to blame religion for the bad but very reluctant to give religion any credit for the good.

Despite the fact that you are making a fringe argument, your argument has two major flaws which are common to all critical theory arguments; 1. your analysis was made in a vacuum; 2. what you did analyze lacked objectivity.

Religion promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness. Religion is responsible for the creation of wonderful charities and organizations which serve the betterment of man. Religious persons and institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions. Religious persons and institutions have been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing. Religion gave us the concept of subsidiarity and has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility Religion teaches accountability and responsibility. Religion teaches that we have a choice in how we behave and that actions have consequences. Religion inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe and helps us feel connected to one another and to nature through regular community gatherings. Religion helps us feel less alone in the world by binding the community together. Religion serves to ennoble the human spirit and inspires love, peace and happiness. Religion brings order to our lives by promoting the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness and humility. Religion brings comfort to the terminally ill and can act as a source of hope for the oppressed. Religion teaches that we can transform ourselves. That it is possible to change for the better. Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon. No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church. Modern science was born in the Catholic Church. Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market. The Catholic Church invented the university. Western law grew out of Church canon law. The Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life. The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources. Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians. Religion gave us America. Religion gave us incredible artwork, music and architecture. Christianity has spread democracy throughout the world. Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression and rebuilt Europe and Japan after WWII. Christians put a man on the moon and ended the cold war.

So getting back to my point that your argument has two major flaws; your argument that God and religion have done little good is not objective and you have yet to tell us what good the alternative to religion has done. Exactly what has atheism done? Because as near as I can tell, atheism's claim to fame is murdering 200 million people in the 20th century.

An atheist was the first to suggest we weren't the center of the universe and stars were other Suns. Religion killed them for suggesting such blasphemy and herisy.

Imagine we are in Iraq living under sharia law. You the devout Muslim is arguing how Islam is doing more harm than good. Do you agree? And agree or not does that make Islam any less fake? How much comfort a lie gives you or us doesn't change the fact it's a lie. And maybe that lie is holding you/us back?

Again... you are making a critical theory argument. Your argument has two major flaws; your argument that God and religion have done little good is not objective and you have yet to tell us what good the alternative to religion has done. Exactly what has atheism done? Because as near as I can tell, atheism's claim to fame is murdering 200 million people in the 20th century.

Why do you believe that an atheist was the first to suggest we weren't the center of the universe and stars were other Suns and that religion killed them for suggesting such blasphemy and heresy. If you are talking about Galileo, I don't believe you have your facts correct.

Bruno giordano

 

[sealybobo]

Im noticing a lot of usmb Republicans claim to be engineers. I'm calling bullshit here and now

I don't know of anyone else who has made this claim and I don't care if you believe me or not. What do you do for a living?

I sell machines that measure important parts. Cmm's

You mean like CNC systems?

No coordinate measurement machines but close

Sure, but they are used in CNC applications, right?

Sure

 

[ding]

Your logic eludes me. The 13th Amendment emancipating the slaves was passed with 100 percent of Republicans (88 of 88 in the House, 30 of 30 in the Senate) voting for it. Only 23 percent of Democrats (16 of 66 in the House, 3 of 8 in the Senate) voted for it. You do realize that at this time only northern Democrats were in the House and Senate, right?

38th United States Congress - Wikipedia

Then why do blacks today, even the successful ones, think the GOP is racist?

Republicans now have a chance to win blacks over. Remember "what have you got to lose"? This goes for the poorly educated blue collar whites. Time for Republicans to show us what they got.

Please don't fuck us like bush Tom delay and Dennis hastert did

Who says they do?

You ever watch blackish? But you make a good point. Us libs can't have it both ways. We say southern Democrats were racist but now southern Republicans are. So it's possible for parties to change. You claim the GOP is not racist and it's the best party for working class people. Moving forward let's see.

I will forgive all past sins. Let's forget the past. I have an open mind. God if you're out there give me a sign

The more Republican the south became the less racist it became. All of the bad things that happened in the south happened when Democrats were in charge of the south.

Well I think the KKK in the 80s, 90's, 2000 and 2010s vote GOP, no?

I don't believe they did. Why would they? Republicans want to get blacks off of the economic plantation. Republicans want to end the black genocide of abortion. Democrats want to pay for your abortions. They even have it written in their party platform for crying out loud. Why else do they put planned parenthood abortion mills close to black population centers? I believe the KKK are the biggest supporters and donors of planned parenthood. You do realize that black babies are three times more likely to be aborted than white babies, right?

 

[ding]

Per Wiki, there are approximately 4,200 religions in the world.

Now, using that as a number going forward, and based on the meaning of being devoted to a religion, and that each one believes that their's is infallibly correct, that means that 4,199 of them are flat-out wrong!!!

Wow...

And given enough prodding, they're willing to kill the other 4,199 religions, and all the people that believe in them, just to prove they're right!

They all have common elements because there are natural laws. You seem more than ready to blame religion for the bad but very reluctant to give religion any credit for the good.

Despite the fact that you are making a fringe argument, your argument has two major flaws which are common to all critical theory arguments; 1. your analysis was made in a vacuum; 2. what you did analyze lacked objectivity.

Religion promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness. Religion is responsible for the creation of wonderful charities and organizations which serve the betterment of man. Religious persons and institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions. Religious persons and institutions have been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing. Religion gave us the concept of subsidiarity and has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility Religion teaches accountability and responsibility. Religion teaches that we have a choice in how we behave and that actions have consequences. Religion inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe and helps us feel connected to one another and to nature through regular community gatherings. Religion helps us feel less alone in the world by binding the community together. Religion serves to ennoble the human spirit and inspires love, peace and happiness. Religion brings order to our lives by promoting the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness and humility. Religion brings comfort to the terminally ill and can act as a source of hope for the oppressed. Religion teaches that we can transform ourselves. That it is possible to change for the better. Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon. No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church. Modern science was born in the Catholic Church. Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market. The Catholic Church invented the university. Western law grew out of Church canon law. The Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life. The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources. Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians. Religion gave us America. Religion gave us incredible artwork, music and architecture. Christianity has spread democracy throughout the world. Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression and rebuilt Europe and Japan after WWII. Christians put a man on the moon and ended the cold war.

So getting back to my point that your argument has two major flaws; your argument that God and religion have done little good is not objective and you have yet to tell us what good the alternative to religion has done. Exactly what has atheism done? Because as near as I can tell, atheism's claim to fame is murdering 200 million people in the 20th century.

An atheist was the first to suggest we weren't the center of the universe and stars were other Suns. Religion killed them for suggesting such blasphemy and herisy.

Imagine we are in Iraq living under sharia law. You the devout Muslim is arguing how Islam is doing more harm than good. Do you agree? And agree or not does that make Islam any less fake? How much comfort a lie gives you or us doesn't change the fact it's a lie. And maybe that lie is holding you/us back?

Again... you are making a critical theory argument. Your argument has two major flaws; your argument that God and religion have done little good is not objective and you have yet to tell us what good the alternative to religion has done. Exactly what has atheism done? Because as near as I can tell, atheism's claim to fame is murdering 200 million people in the 20th century.

Why do you believe that an atheist was the first to suggest we weren't the center of the universe and stars were other Suns and that religion killed them for suggesting such blasphemy and heresy. If you are talking about Galileo, I don't believe you have your facts correct.

Bruno giordano

He was not the first to suggest we weren't the center of the universe.

 

[ding]

I don't know of anyone else who has made this claim and I don't care if you believe me or not. What do you do for a living?

I sell machines that measure important parts. Cmm's

You mean like CNC systems?

No coordinate measurement machines but close

Sure, but they are used in CNC applications, right?

Sure

So I was right about that then, right? How would I know that CMM's were used in CNC applications? Because I'm an engineer and I purchase equipment that is manufactured using CNC technology. That's how. What kind of CMM's do you sell?

 

[PK1]

If God doesn't exist...

... then maybe Gods do
... or maybe not.

Maybe we will never know because we don't even know what it means to be a "god".

You must be a government school grad, huh?
Bet they never told you that our memorializing documents are based on the Bible.

"They told you"? LOL.
I am not a dogmatic follower with a useless brain. I attended 5 public schools/college and a private university in the Ivy League. Learned critical thinking skills in rhetoric classes and philosophy & sciences.
The statesmen 200+ years ago were relatively ignorant, with some exception from Franklin, Paine, and Jefferson.
The Bible is 2,000 year-old trash when it comes to "God".
Are you another sucker that believes that old cultural shit has any modern use in epistemology?

If you believe that you are using critical thinking skills, then you don't know what critical thinking is. What you are practicing is critical theory. Critical theory is the practice of criticizing everything you don't believe to justify what you do believe which of course is wrongheaded thinking. Critical thinking is to critically challenge what you do believe to test its validity. You are just another dumbass wanna be pretending to be intellectual. You don't know shit. You have never known shit and it is entirely likely that you will die never knowing shit.. You feel me.

I realize you are emotional about your set-in-stone ancient "God" beliefs, but try to get a grip on your feelings before exercising whatever intellect you have.

Critical thinking reflects an objective evaluation of knowledge claims before adopting a belief.
You obviously have the cart before the horse. You adopted a Christian-Catholic belief system before logical evaluation; your biased view tries to make things "fit" into your belief system that you are emotionally invested in.

To be objective, you need to not assume something is true before you start your evaluation.
Does a "god" exist? We don't know, unless there is a valid logical argument to support its answer one way or another.
Are you able to elucidate a logical argument for the existence of a single "God"?
If so, please begin by stating your premises that lead to your logical conclusion ...

 

[ding]

Are you serious? If you're a practicing engineer, basing your measurements on stuff you hope is true based on what your parents told you upon birth, then I do not want to ride in your car...

That's good because I don't build cars.

happinessbeyondthought: How "consciousness" creates matter...the God particle?

Are you still serious? You know the "God particle" has nothing to do with "god", right? It was just an unfortunate term in a book?

The Higgs Boson and the Nobel: Why We Call It the 'God Particle'

It took off because religious people thought that there could actually be a particle that proved "god"!

But it has nothing to do with "god" or anything else supernatural!!! It has to do with the way a particle interacts with space-time to create mass!

It's good that you're not engineering cars, or any other moving thing (i hope). What exactly are you engineering?

Im noticing a lot of usmb Republicans claim to be engineers. I'm calling bullshit here and now

I don't know of anyone else who has made this claim and I don't care if you believe me or not. What do you do for a living?

Lots of usmb right wingers do. If I'm arguing science evolution or global warming they say they are a scientist. Turns out they are in IT. Lol or a janitor. Or they work for an engineer. When someone calls us for tech support I say let me connect you with an engineer

I have not seen you in the environment forum discussing global warming. You should come over there and let me explain to you the climate history of the earth and why radiative forcing of CO2 is not responsible for the myth of global warming. Sure there is a greenhouse effect of CO2 but there is a logarithmic relationship between CO2 level and associated temperature and the biggest impact is at very low concentrations. The geologic record and the oxygen isotope curves prove that CO2 acts as a reinforcing agent to temperature change not as a driver for climate change. We are in an interglacial cycle. Our present temperature is at least 1.4C to 2.4C below the peak temperature of three of the four last interglacials. We are well within the normal range of an interglacial cycle. The problem with their models is not the radiative forcing aspect of CO2 it is with their ridiculous feedback amplifications which have been proven to be false by satellite measurements and their timing estimate of the associated temperature from radiative forcing of CO2. The oceans have a vast storage of heat capacity. It takes centuries for the radiative forcing of CO2 to have any effect on temperature. What we are seeing today are natural variations that have always existed. Finally, our CO2 emissions could go to zero overnight and the rest of the world would replace it in 5 years. There isn't a problem and if it were, we are not the problem.

 

[PK1]

If God doesn't exist...

... then maybe Gods do
... or maybe not.

Maybe we will never know because we don't even know what it means to be a "god".

You must be a government school grad, huh?
Bet they never told you that our memorializing documents are based on the Bible.

"They told you"? LOL.
I am not a dogmatic follower with a useless brain. I attended 5 public schools/college and a private university in the Ivy League. Learned critical thinking skills in rhetoric classes and philosophy & sciences.
The statesmen 200+ years ago were relatively ignorant, with some exception from Franklin, Paine, and Jefferson.
The Bible is 2,000 year-old trash when it comes to "God".
Are you another sucker that believes that old cultural shit has any modern use in epistemology?

"...Learned critical thinking skills..."
Fact not in evidence.
Clearly you are no more than a boiler plate bigot.

Let's see your evidence, or are you a brainless robot like you appear?

What the fuck do you believe and what is your evidence for that belief? Is your evidence that I am wrong? That's not evidence, dumbass. Please tell me that you can make a positive case for your beliefs. Please tell me that you are not some dumbass critical theorists who has no basis for his beliefs.

As i stated MANY times before, i have no belief in any conceptualization of a "god"; i am agnostic and honest about my ignorance.

 

[PoliticalChic]

"Notice how the founders never mention Christ in the Constitution"

Of course they did.

You really are a dunce.....one would have thought you'd read the Constitution before you stat what is or isn't in it.

Second paragraph of Article VII.
Post it, please.
And never make that mistake again.



Oh......and Merry Christmas

Article VII
The ratification of the conventions of nine states, shall be sufficient for the establishment of this Constitution between the states so ratifying the same.


Where is the reference to Jesus?

This was the request:
Second paragraph of Article VII.
Post it, please.
And never make that mistake again.

I'll take your refusal to post the second paragraph a proof that you know that....as usual....I'm correct again.

You're dismissed.

Still no mention of Jesus

Article VII
The ratification of the conventions of nine states, shall be sufficient for the establishment of this Constitution between the states so ratifying the same.

Still no second paragraph

There is only one paragraph no matter how badly you want there to be a second

Everyone who has a copy of the Constitution will recognize you in exactly the way I've described you....as a congenital liar.

Two paragraphs.....the second proving what I said it does.