If God doesn't exist...

[ding]

If God doesn't exist...

... then maybe Gods do
... or maybe not.

Maybe we will never know because we don't even know what it means to be a "god".

You must be a government school grad, huh?
Bet they never told you that our memorializing documents are based on the Bible.

"They told you"? LOL.
I am not a dogmatic follower with a useless brain. I attended 5 public schools/college and a private university in the Ivy League. Learned critical thinking skills in rhetoric classes and philosophy & sciences.
The statesmen 200+ years ago were relatively ignorant, with some exception from Franklin, Paine, and Jefferson.
The Bible is 2,000 year-old trash when it comes to "God".
Are you another sucker that believes that old cultural shit has any modern use in epistemology?

If you believe that you are using critical thinking skills, then you don't know what critical thinking is. What you are practicing is critical theory. Critical theory is the practice of criticizing everything you don't believe to justify what you do believe which of course is wrongheaded thinking. Critical thinking is to critically challenge what you do believe to test its validity. You are just another dumbass wanna be pretending to be intellectual. You don't know shit. You have never known shit and it is entirely likely that you will die never knowing shit.. You feel me.

I realize you are emotional about your set-in-stone ancient "God" beliefs, but try to get a grip on your feelings before exercising whatever intellect you have.

Critical thinking reflects an objective evaluation of knowledge claims before adopting a belief.
You obviously have the cart before the horse. You adopted a Christian-Catholic belief system before logical evaluation; your biased view tries to make things "fit" into your belief system that you are emotionally invested in.

To be objective, you need to not assume something is true before you start your evaluation.
Does a "god" exist? We don't know, unless there is a valid logical argument to support its answer one way or another.
Are you able to elucidate a logical argument for the existence of a single "God"?
If so, please begin by stating your premises that lead to your logical conclusion ...

No. I am not being emotional. You are being illogical. You are practicing is critical theory. Critical theory is the practice of criticizing everything you don't believe to justify what you do believe which of course is wrongheaded thinking. Critical thinking is to critically challenge what you do believe to test its validity. That is how I know that you are just another dumbass wanna be pretending to be intellectual. You don't know shit. You have never known shit and it is entirely likely that you will die never knowing shit.

 

[ding]

You must be a government school grad, huh?
Bet they never told you that our memorializing documents are based on the Bible.

"They told you"? LOL.
I am not a dogmatic follower with a useless brain. I attended 5 public schools/college and a private university in the Ivy League. Learned critical thinking skills in rhetoric classes and philosophy & sciences.
The statesmen 200+ years ago were relatively ignorant, with some exception from Franklin, Paine, and Jefferson.
The Bible is 2,000 year-old trash when it comes to "God".
Are you another sucker that believes that old cultural shit has any modern use in epistemology?

"...Learned critical thinking skills..."
Fact not in evidence.
Clearly you are no more than a boiler plate bigot.

Let's see your evidence, or are you a brainless robot like you appear?

What the fuck do you believe and what is your evidence for that belief? Is your evidence that I am wrong? That's not evidence, dumbass. Please tell me that you can make a positive case for your beliefs. Please tell me that you are not some dumbass critical theorists who has no basis for his beliefs.

As i stated MANY times before, i have no belief in any conceptualization of a "god"; i am agnostic and honest about my ignorance.

And as I have stated many times before and proven through logic, you are full of shit. It is irrational for you to believe that you are ignostic and be arguing against the existence of God. Ignosticism is the idea that the question of the existence of God is meaningless, because the term "god" has no unambiguous definition. So here you are engaging in an argument that you have already defined as meaningless. Which means that it isn't so meaningless to you and it is irrational to define yourself as ignostic.

 

[BreezeWood]

Notice how the founders never mention Christ in the Constitution?

"Notice how the founders never mention Christ in the Constitution"

Of course they did.

You really are a dunce.....one would have thought you'd read the Constitution before you stat what is or isn't in it.

Second paragraph of Article VII.
Post it, please.
And never make that mistake again.



Oh......and Merry Christmas

Article VII
The ratification of the conventions of nine states, shall be sufficient for the establishment of this Constitution between the states so ratifying the same.


Where is the reference to Jesus?

This was the request:
Second paragraph of Article VII.
Post it, please.
And never make that mistake again.

I'll take your refusal to post the second paragraph a proof that you know that....as usual....I'm correct again.

You're dismissed.

Still no mention of Jesus

Article VII
The ratification of the conventions of nine states, shall be sufficient for the establishment of this Constitution between the states so ratifying the same.

Still no second paragraph

.

Still no second paragraph

U S CONSTITUTION -

2nd P: done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names ....


rather pathetic, the Almighty will certainly never entertain a christian ...


by the way PC why were they convening to ratify the U S Constitution - you are such an invalid I will refresh your memory, because the right wing articles of confederation was a miserable failure ... for the same reason



Articles of Confederation:

In Witness whereof we have hereunto set our hands in Congress. Done at Philadelphia in the State of Pennsylvania the ninth day of July in the Year of our Lord One Thousand Seven Hundred and Seventy-Eight, and in the Third Year of the independence of America.


the Almighty took special care for you on that one ...

.

 

[ding]

"Notice how the founders never mention Christ in the Constitution"

Of course they did.

You really are a dunce.....one would have thought you'd read the Constitution before you stat what is or isn't in it.

Second paragraph of Article VII.
Post it, please.
And never make that mistake again.



Oh......and Merry Christmas

Article VII
The ratification of the conventions of nine states, shall be sufficient for the establishment of this Constitution between the states so ratifying the same.


Where is the reference to Jesus?

This was the request:
Second paragraph of Article VII.
Post it, please.
And never make that mistake again.

I'll take your refusal to post the second paragraph a proof that you know that....as usual....I'm correct again.

You're dismissed.

Still no mention of Jesus

Article VII
The ratification of the conventions of nine states, shall be sufficient for the establishment of this Constitution between the states so ratifying the same.

Still no second paragraph

.

Still no second paragraph

U S CONSTITUTION -

2nd P: done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names ....


rather pathetic, the Almighty will certainly never entertain a christian ...


by the way PC why were they convening to ratify the U S Constitution - you are such an invalid I will refresh your memory, because the right wing articles of confederation was a miserable failure ... for the same reason



Articles of Confederation:

In Witness whereof we have hereunto set our hands in Congress. Done at Philadelphia in the State of Pennsylvania the ninth day of July in the Year of our Lord One Thousand Seven Hundred and Seventy-Eight, and in the Third Year of the independence of America.


the Almighty took special care for you on that one ...

.

Did you know that they still use that verbiage today when the president signs bills into laws?

 

[PK1]

If God doesn't exist...

... then maybe Gods do
... or maybe not.

Maybe we will never know because we don't even know what it means to be a "god".

You must be a government school grad, huh?
Bet they never told you that our memorializing documents are based on the Bible.

"They told you"? LOL.
I am not a dogmatic follower with a useless brain. I attended 5 public schools/college and a private university in the Ivy League. Learned critical thinking skills in rhetoric classes and philosophy & sciences.
The statesmen 200+ years ago were relatively ignorant, with some exception from Franklin, Paine, and Jefferson.
The Bible is 2,000 year-old trash when it comes to "God".
Are you another sucker that believes that old cultural shit has any modern use in epistemology?

If you believe that you are using critical thinking skills, then you don't know what critical thinking is. What you are practicing is critical theory. Critical theory is the practice of criticizing everything you don't believe to justify what you do believe which of course is wrongheaded thinking. Critical thinking is to critically challenge what you do believe to test its validity. You are just another dumbass wanna be pretending to be intellectual. You don't know shit. You have never known shit and it is entirely likely that you will die never knowing shit.. You feel me.

I realize you are emotional about your set-in-stone ancient "God" beliefs, but try to get a grip on your feelings before exercising whatever intellect you have.

Critical thinking reflects an objective evaluation of knowledge claims before adopting a belief.
You obviously have the cart before the horse. You adopted a Christian-Catholic belief system before logical evaluation; your biased view tries to make things "fit" into your belief system that you are emotionally invested in.

To be objective, you need to not assume something is true before you start your evaluation.
Does a "god" exist? We don't know, unless there is a valid logical argument to support its answer one way or another.
Are you able to elucidate a logical argument for the existence of a single "God"?
If so, please begin by stating your premises that lead to your logical conclusion ...

No. I am not being emotional. You are being illogical. You are practicing is critical theory. Critical theory is the practice of criticizing everything you don't believe to justify what you do believe which of course is wrongheaded thinking. Critical thinking is to critically challenge what you do believe to test its validity. That is how I know that you are just another dumbass wanna be pretending to be intellectual. You don't know shit. You have never known shit and it is entirely likely that you will die never knowing shit.

Again you confirm that you have no logical argument for a "god".
Again, you lie when you say i have a belief about any "god".
Are you a cut/paste robot that has no ability to reason?

 

[sealybobo]

You support the omnipotent benevolent God, do you not?

And being an engineer, you know the mass reboots we have undertaken as a species based on religious genocide and wiping out of prior knowledge, right?

And where we could possibly be at this point in terms of medicine and science, if those religious reboots never happened?

So where was your omnipotent and benevolent God, during the times of human crisis?

And if he just lets us do our own thing without intervention, and roots for those that believe in him, then that means he doesn't care.

Or he doesn't have the power to care.

Or maybe, He likes seeing the evil and destruction he can cause in his video game of our universe, before he has to go to dinner.

Or... maybe... he just doesn't exist? And we made Him up to explain stuff we haven't yet explained?


Why is the idea of "God" being real, important to you?

No. I am more of a deist. I believe the laws of nature or such that people like yourself will eventually suffer the predictable surprises of normalizing their deviance.

As an engineer I see the natural cycles that have occurred throughout man's history and the role that violating the moral law plays in it. As an engineer I see how you use critical theory to criticize everything that you don't believe to justify what you do believe and convince yourself that you are using critical thinking. You're not. Critical thinking is challenging what you do believe to test its validity. You don't have a positive argument for your beliefs. You have negative arguments for what you don't believe such as your path not taken argument you are making now.

No, that doesn't mean He doesn't care. It means that it is not virtuous if we are made to be virtuous. Don't worry, the laws of compensation are such that virtue is increasing. It just isn't in a straight line. It is cyclical. It is Darwinian.

The reality is that there is plenty of evidence for His existence. You just don't accept any of it, but regardless, you are being pruned by Him through the natural laws of right and wrong, even if you don't recognize it or accept it.

Give us the 3-5 pieces of evidence you have for God's existence.

For example I could give you a list of 1000 pieces of scientific evidence that evolution is real. Give me your top 3-5. Short list

Nothing you present is going to prove there must be a creator. We've seen all the arguments.

And I'll even give you there could be a creator. That is one possibility. What evidence do you have?

I don't deny evolution. I don't see any inconsistencies at all. I believe we live in a universe where the laws of nature are such that given enough time that beings that know and create will eventually arise. This means that beings that know and create were predestined by the laws of nature the moment that space and time were created. I have already explained to you the source of my evidence. Creation itself and everything in it and everything that has happened since it was created is my evidence. The universe is a self-referential system which behaves like a mind. I believe that Mind, rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create. I believe that consciousness is evolving just like every phase in the evolution of matter evolved before it. I believe that the purpose of the universe is consciousness and the evolution of consciousness. The process that controls this evolution is called Natural Law.

Can you make a positive argument for why you believe there is no creator?

God may not be necessary for universes to exist. It seems like based on human minds we made this up. It was what we concluded a long time ago and we've believed it for so long without any evidence. And because we didn't have evidence moses manufactured evidence and the abrahamic religions were all born. No more multiple gods.

Maybe universes just occur and life occurs. It sucks but the truth is this is unknowable. But remember your God doesn't send me to hell for eternity just for not believing, does he?

They had the exact same evidence we have. The only evidence anyone will ever have. Human beings today are not much different than human beings 10,000 years ago. The human condition has been known to us a very long time. You are presuming that the writings in the Bible are literal. You assume that when they spoke of God's vengeance they literally believed that God was personally responsible for smiting them. The problem is they would know that when they violated the moral law nothing bad happened to them. Often times they got away with it. Just like we do today. That doesn't mean there is no moral law. It only means that the consequences of violating it are not immediate. It also doesn't mean there are no consequences either. We know from our own experiences that people who behave without virtue will naturally suffer predictable consequences. It may seem like a surprise to them but we all know that if you cheat or steal or kill long enough, your actions will have consequences. So while you read the Bible literally, I don't. I understand that the Bible is a how to book. It is not a book of fairy tales. It is a book of profound wisdom.

I don't know what heaven and hell are. My human mind cannot comprehend anything outside of space and time. The best I can say is that our matter was created at the moment space and time were created and that when we die the energy that animates us will either return to the creator or it won't. Heaven is being joined with the source of our energy. Hell is being separated from the source of our energy. Based on what I know, He does not destroy what He creates.

For 2000 years they said the bible stories were real. Us atheists made them admit those are just stories. You're welcome

Like I've said before God doesn't offend me it's the religions that lied and said he visited.

Apparently we are smarter because most no longer take religions literally. Thank an atheist. Lol

 

[BreezeWood]

Article VII
The ratification of the conventions of nine states, shall be sufficient for the establishment of this Constitution between the states so ratifying the same.


Where is the reference to Jesus?

This was the request:
Second paragraph of Article VII.
Post it, please.
And never make that mistake again.

I'll take your refusal to post the second paragraph a proof that you know that....as usual....I'm correct again.

You're dismissed.

Still no mention of Jesus

Article VII
The ratification of the conventions of nine states, shall be sufficient for the establishment of this Constitution between the states so ratifying the same.

Still no second paragraph

.

Still no second paragraph

U S CONSTITUTION -

2nd P: done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names ....


rather pathetic, the Almighty will certainly never entertain a christian ...


by the way PC why were they convening to ratify the U S Constitution - you are such an invalid I will refresh your memory, because the right wing articles of confederation was a miserable failure ... for the same reason



Articles of Confederation:

In Witness whereof we have hereunto set our hands in Congress. Done at Philadelphia in the State of Pennsylvania the ninth day of July in the Year of our Lord One Thousand Seven Hundred and Seventy-Eight, and in the Third Year of the independence of America.


the Almighty took special care for you on that one ...

.

Did you know that they still use that verbiage today when the president signs bills into laws?

.

Did you know that they still use that verbiage today when the president signs bills into laws?

and do you have any other reason for why the Almighty has not reappeared for over 2000 K years ... christian.

.

 

[ding]

You must be a government school grad, huh?
Bet they never told you that our memorializing documents are based on the Bible.

"They told you"? LOL.
I am not a dogmatic follower with a useless brain. I attended 5 public schools/college and a private university in the Ivy League. Learned critical thinking skills in rhetoric classes and philosophy & sciences.
The statesmen 200+ years ago were relatively ignorant, with some exception from Franklin, Paine, and Jefferson.
The Bible is 2,000 year-old trash when it comes to "God".
Are you another sucker that believes that old cultural shit has any modern use in epistemology?

"...Learned critical thinking skills..."
Fact not in evidence.
Clearly you are no more than a boiler plate bigot.

Let's see your evidence, or are you a brainless robot like you appear?

What the fuck do you believe and what is your evidence for that belief? Is your evidence that I am wrong? That's not evidence, dumbass. Please tell me that you can make a positive case for your beliefs. Please tell me that you are not some dumbass critical theorists who has no basis for his beliefs.

As i stated MANY times before, i have no belief in any conceptualization of a "god"; i am agnostic and honest about my ignorance.

You said you were ignostic. Now you are saying you are agnostic. Can you please make up your mind or at least keep your lies straight. Your behaviors suggest that you are an atheist. Possibly a militant atheist.

 

[PK1]

"They told you"? LOL.
I am not a dogmatic follower with a useless brain. I attended 5 public schools/college and a private university in the Ivy League. Learned critical thinking skills in rhetoric classes and philosophy & sciences.
The statesmen 200+ years ago were relatively ignorant, with some exception from Franklin, Paine, and Jefferson.
The Bible is 2,000 year-old trash when it comes to "God".
Are you another sucker that believes that old cultural shit has any modern use in epistemology?

"...Learned critical thinking skills..."
Fact not in evidence.
Clearly you are no more than a boiler plate bigot.

Let's see your evidence, or are you a brainless robot like you appear?

What the fuck do you believe and what is your evidence for that belief? Is your evidence that I am wrong? That's not evidence, dumbass. Please tell me that you can make a positive case for your beliefs. Please tell me that you are not some dumbass critical theorists who has no basis for his beliefs.

As i stated MANY times before, i have no belief in any conceptualization of a "god"; i am agnostic and honest about my ignorance.

And as I have stated many times before and proven through logic, you are full of shit. It is irrational for you to believe that you are ignostic and be arguing against the existence of God. Ignosticism is the idea that the question of the existence of God is meaningless, because the term "god" has no unambiguous definition. So here you are engaging in an argument that you have already defined as meaningless. Which means that it isn't so meaningless to you and it is irrational to define yourself as ignostic.

Hold on to your emotions! LOL.
I am ignostic about your idea of a "God".
I am agnostic about a logical argument for a "god" if rationally defined.

Try to keep up!

 

[ding]

No. I am more of a deist. I believe the laws of nature or such that people like yourself will eventually suffer the predictable surprises of normalizing their deviance.

As an engineer I see the natural cycles that have occurred throughout man's history and the role that violating the moral law plays in it. As an engineer I see how you use critical theory to criticize everything that you don't believe to justify what you do believe and convince yourself that you are using critical thinking. You're not. Critical thinking is challenging what you do believe to test its validity. You don't have a positive argument for your beliefs. You have negative arguments for what you don't believe such as your path not taken argument you are making now.

No, that doesn't mean He doesn't care. It means that it is not virtuous if we are made to be virtuous. Don't worry, the laws of compensation are such that virtue is increasing. It just isn't in a straight line. It is cyclical. It is Darwinian.

The reality is that there is plenty of evidence for His existence. You just don't accept any of it, but regardless, you are being pruned by Him through the natural laws of right and wrong, even if you don't recognize it or accept it.

Give us the 3-5 pieces of evidence you have for God's existence.

For example I could give you a list of 1000 pieces of scientific evidence that evolution is real. Give me your top 3-5. Short list

Nothing you present is going to prove there must be a creator. We've seen all the arguments.

And I'll even give you there could be a creator. That is one possibility. What evidence do you have?

I don't deny evolution. I don't see any inconsistencies at all. I believe we live in a universe where the laws of nature are such that given enough time that beings that know and create will eventually arise. This means that beings that know and create were predestined by the laws of nature the moment that space and time were created. I have already explained to you the source of my evidence. Creation itself and everything in it and everything that has happened since it was created is my evidence. The universe is a self-referential system which behaves like a mind. I believe that Mind, rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create. I believe that consciousness is evolving just like every phase in the evolution of matter evolved before it. I believe that the purpose of the universe is consciousness and the evolution of consciousness. The process that controls this evolution is called Natural Law.

Can you make a positive argument for why you believe there is no creator?

God may not be necessary for universes to exist. It seems like based on human minds we made this up. It was what we concluded a long time ago and we've believed it for so long without any evidence. And because we didn't have evidence moses manufactured evidence and the abrahamic religions were all born. No more multiple gods.

Maybe universes just occur and life occurs. It sucks but the truth is this is unknowable. But remember your God doesn't send me to hell for eternity just for not believing, does he?

They had the exact same evidence we have. The only evidence anyone will ever have. Human beings today are not much different than human beings 10,000 years ago. The human condition has been known to us a very long time. You are presuming that the writings in the Bible are literal. You assume that when they spoke of God's vengeance they literally believed that God was personally responsible for smiting them. The problem is they would know that when they violated the moral law nothing bad happened to them. Often times they got away with it. Just like we do today. That doesn't mean there is no moral law. It only means that the consequences of violating it are not immediate. It also doesn't mean there are no consequences either. We know from our own experiences that people who behave without virtue will naturally suffer predictable consequences. It may seem like a surprise to them but we all know that if you cheat or steal or kill long enough, your actions will have consequences. So while you read the Bible literally, I don't. I understand that the Bible is a how to book. It is not a book of fairy tales. It is a book of profound wisdom.

I don't know what heaven and hell are. My human mind cannot comprehend anything outside of space and time. The best I can say is that our matter was created at the moment space and time were created and that when we die the energy that animates us will either return to the creator or it won't. Heaven is being joined with the source of our energy. Hell is being separated from the source of our energy. Based on what I know, He does not destroy what He creates.

For 2000 years they said the bible stories were real. Us atheists made them admit those are just stories. You're welcome

Like I've said before God doesn't offend me it's the religions that lied and said he visited.

Apparently we are smarter because most no longer take religions literally. Thank an atheist. Lol

No. That's not what they said. That's what you believe they said. The reality is that there are several different literary types used within the Bible; allegorical, poetic, historic and prophetic.

So despite what you believe they said, your own common sense should be able to distinguish the difference between them.

 

[ding]

"...Learned critical thinking skills..."
Fact not in evidence.
Clearly you are no more than a boiler plate bigot.

Let's see your evidence, or are you a brainless robot like you appear?

What the fuck do you believe and what is your evidence for that belief? Is your evidence that I am wrong? That's not evidence, dumbass. Please tell me that you can make a positive case for your beliefs. Please tell me that you are not some dumbass critical theorists who has no basis for his beliefs.

As i stated MANY times before, i have no belief in any conceptualization of a "god"; i am agnostic and honest about my ignorance.

And as I have stated many times before and proven through logic, you are full of shit. It is irrational for you to believe that you are ignostic and be arguing against the existence of God. Ignosticism is the idea that the question of the existence of God is meaningless, because the term "god" has no unambiguous definition. So here you are engaging in an argument that you have already defined as meaningless. Which means that it isn't so meaningless to you and it is irrational to define yourself as ignostic.

Hold on to your emotions! LOL.
I am ignostic about your idea of a "God".
I am agnostic about a logical argument for a "god" if rationally defined.

Try to keep up!

Too funny.

 

[ding]

"...Learned critical thinking skills..."
Fact not in evidence.
Clearly you are no more than a boiler plate bigot.

Let's see your evidence, or are you a brainless robot like you appear?

What the fuck do you believe and what is your evidence for that belief? Is your evidence that I am wrong? That's not evidence, dumbass. Please tell me that you can make a positive case for your beliefs. Please tell me that you are not some dumbass critical theorists who has no basis for his beliefs.

As i stated MANY times before, i have no belief in any conceptualization of a "god"; i am agnostic and honest about my ignorance.

And as I have stated many times before and proven through logic, you are full of shit. It is irrational for you to believe that you are ignostic and be arguing against the existence of God. Ignosticism is the idea that the question of the existence of God is meaningless, because the term "god" has no unambiguous definition. So here you are engaging in an argument that you have already defined as meaningless. Which means that it isn't so meaningless to you and it is irrational to define yourself as ignostic.

Hold on to your emotions! LOL.
I am ignostic about your idea of a "God".
I am agnostic about a logical argument for a "god" if rationally defined.

Try to keep up!

You are also a liar, lol.

Is There A God?

I prefer honesty & am ignostic.

 

[PK1]

Let's see your evidence, or are you a brainless robot like you appear?

What the fuck do you believe and what is your evidence for that belief? Is your evidence that I am wrong? That's not evidence, dumbass. Please tell me that you can make a positive case for your beliefs. Please tell me that you are not some dumbass critical theorists who has no basis for his beliefs.

As i stated MANY times before, i have no belief in any conceptualization of a "god"; i am agnostic and honest about my ignorance.

And as I have stated many times before and proven through logic, you are full of shit. It is irrational for you to believe that you are ignostic and be arguing against the existence of God. Ignosticism is the idea that the question of the existence of God is meaningless, because the term "god" has no unambiguous definition. So here you are engaging in an argument that you have already defined as meaningless. Which means that it isn't so meaningless to you and it is irrational to define yourself as ignostic.

Hold on to your emotions! LOL.
I am ignostic about your idea of a "God".
I am agnostic about a logical argument for a "god" if rationally defined.

Try to keep up!

You are also a liar, lol.
Is There A God?

I prefer honesty & am ignostic.

I did not lie.
Why did you believe that?
Can you state your logical argument for that false belief?

 

[ding]

"...Learned critical thinking skills..."
Fact not in evidence.
Clearly you are no more than a boiler plate bigot.

Let's see your evidence, or are you a brainless robot like you appear?

What the fuck do you believe and what is your evidence for that belief? Is your evidence that I am wrong? That's not evidence, dumbass. Please tell me that you can make a positive case for your beliefs. Please tell me that you are not some dumbass critical theorists who has no basis for his beliefs.

As i stated MANY times before, i have no belief in any conceptualization of a "god"; i am agnostic and honest about my ignorance.

And as I have stated many times before and proven through logic, you are full of shit. It is irrational for you to believe that you are ignostic and be arguing against the existence of God. Ignosticism is the idea that the question of the existence of God is meaningless, because the term "god" has no unambiguous definition. So here you are engaging in an argument that you have already defined as meaningless. Which means that it isn't so meaningless to you and it is irrational to define yourself as ignostic.

Hold on to your emotions! LOL.
I am ignostic about your idea of a "God".
I am agnostic about a logical argument for a "god" if rationally defined.

Try to keep up!

Let me now dissect your new found identity as an agnostic. How many times have you argued with an atheist about their beliefs, lol?

 

[sealybobo]

You support the omnipotent benevolent God, do you not?

And being an engineer, you know the mass reboots we have undertaken as a species based on religious genocide and wiping out of prior knowledge, right?

And where we could possibly be at this point in terms of medicine and science, if those religious reboots never happened?

So where was your omnipotent and benevolent God, during the times of human crisis?

And if he just lets us do our own thing without intervention, and roots for those that believe in him, then that means he doesn't care.

Or he doesn't have the power to care.

Or maybe, He likes seeing the evil and destruction he can cause in his video game of our universe, before he has to go to dinner.

Or... maybe... he just doesn't exist? And we made Him up to explain stuff we haven't yet explained?


Why is the idea of "God" being real, important to you?

No. I am more of a deist. I believe the laws of nature or such that people like yourself will eventually suffer the predictable surprises of normalizing their deviance.

As an engineer I see the natural cycles that have occurred throughout man's history and the role that violating the moral law plays in it. As an engineer I see how you use critical theory to criticize everything that you don't believe to justify what you do believe and convince yourself that you are using critical thinking. You're not. Critical thinking is challenging what you do believe to test its validity. You don't have a positive argument for your beliefs. You have negative arguments for what you don't believe such as your path not taken argument you are making now.

No, that doesn't mean He doesn't care. It means that it is not virtuous if we are made to be virtuous. Don't worry, the laws of compensation are such that virtue is increasing. It just isn't in a straight line. It is cyclical. It is Darwinian.

The reality is that there is plenty of evidence for His existence. You just don't accept any of it, but regardless, you are being pruned by Him through the natural laws of right and wrong, even if you don't recognize it or accept it.

Give us the 3-5 pieces of evidence you have for God's existence.

For example I could give you a list of 1000 pieces of scientific evidence that evolution is real. Give me your top 3-5. Short list

Nothing you present is going to prove there must be a creator. We've seen all the arguments.

And I'll even give you there could be a creator. That is one possibility. What evidence do you have?

I don't deny evolution. I don't see any inconsistencies at all. I believe we live in a universe where the laws of nature are such that given enough time that beings that know and create will eventually arise. This means that beings that know and create were predestined by the laws of nature the moment that space and time were created. I have already explained to you the source of my evidence. Creation itself and everything in it and everything that has happened since it was created is my evidence. The universe is a self-referential system which behaves like a mind. I believe that Mind, rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create. I believe that consciousness is evolving just like every phase in the evolution of matter evolved before it. I believe that the purpose of the universe is consciousness and the evolution of consciousness. The process that controls this evolution is called Natural Law.

Can you make a positive argument for why you believe there is no creator?

God may not be necessary for universes to exist. It seems like based on human minds we made this up. It was what we concluded a long time ago and we've believed it for so long without any evidence. And because we didn't have evidence moses manufactured evidence and the abrahamic religions were all born. No more multiple gods.

Maybe universes just occur and life occurs. It sucks but the truth is this is unknowable. But remember your God doesn't send me to hell for eternity just for not believing, does he?

They had the exact same evidence we have. The only evidence anyone will ever have. Human beings today are not much different than human beings 10,000 years ago. The human condition has been known to us a very long time. You are presuming that the writings in the Bible are literal. You assume that when they spoke of God's vengeance they literally believed that God was personally responsible for smiting them. The problem is they would know that when they violated the moral law nothing bad happened to them. Often times they got away with it. Just like we do today. That doesn't mean there is no moral law. It only means that the consequences of violating it are not immediate. It also doesn't mean there are no consequences either. We know from our own experiences that people who behave without virtue will naturally suffer predictable consequences. It may seem like a surprise to them but we all know that if you cheat or steal or kill long enough, your actions will have consequences. So while you read the Bible literally, I don't. I understand that the Bible is a how to book. It is not a book of fairy tales. It is a book of profound wisdom.

I don't know what heaven and hell are. My human mind cannot comprehend anything outside of space and time. The best I can say is that our matter was created at the moment space and time were created and that when we die the energy that animates us will either return to the creator or it won't. Heaven is being joined with the source of our energy. Hell is being separated from the source of our energy. Based on what I know, He does not destroy what He creates.

All I can say is theists like you are not the problem

But don't forget the war science had with religion. Yes religions done a lot of good. Any business has to provide a product people want and religion has. I don't wish religions away because that's a big part of our economy.

What has atheism got us? This is a secular society so true freedom to not have to worship.

 

[ding]

No. I am more of a deist. I believe the laws of nature or such that people like yourself will eventually suffer the predictable surprises of normalizing their deviance.

As an engineer I see the natural cycles that have occurred throughout man's history and the role that violating the moral law plays in it. As an engineer I see how you use critical theory to criticize everything that you don't believe to justify what you do believe and convince yourself that you are using critical thinking. You're not. Critical thinking is challenging what you do believe to test its validity. You don't have a positive argument for your beliefs. You have negative arguments for what you don't believe such as your path not taken argument you are making now.

No, that doesn't mean He doesn't care. It means that it is not virtuous if we are made to be virtuous. Don't worry, the laws of compensation are such that virtue is increasing. It just isn't in a straight line. It is cyclical. It is Darwinian.

The reality is that there is plenty of evidence for His existence. You just don't accept any of it, but regardless, you are being pruned by Him through the natural laws of right and wrong, even if you don't recognize it or accept it.

Give us the 3-5 pieces of evidence you have for God's existence.

For example I could give you a list of 1000 pieces of scientific evidence that evolution is real. Give me your top 3-5. Short list

Nothing you present is going to prove there must be a creator. We've seen all the arguments.

And I'll even give you there could be a creator. That is one possibility. What evidence do you have?

I don't deny evolution. I don't see any inconsistencies at all. I believe we live in a universe where the laws of nature are such that given enough time that beings that know and create will eventually arise. This means that beings that know and create were predestined by the laws of nature the moment that space and time were created. I have already explained to you the source of my evidence. Creation itself and everything in it and everything that has happened since it was created is my evidence. The universe is a self-referential system which behaves like a mind. I believe that Mind, rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create. I believe that consciousness is evolving just like every phase in the evolution of matter evolved before it. I believe that the purpose of the universe is consciousness and the evolution of consciousness. The process that controls this evolution is called Natural Law.

Can you make a positive argument for why you believe there is no creator?

God may not be necessary for universes to exist. It seems like based on human minds we made this up. It was what we concluded a long time ago and we've believed it for so long without any evidence. And because we didn't have evidence moses manufactured evidence and the abrahamic religions were all born. No more multiple gods.

Maybe universes just occur and life occurs. It sucks but the truth is this is unknowable. But remember your God doesn't send me to hell for eternity just for not believing, does he?

They had the exact same evidence we have. The only evidence anyone will ever have. Human beings today are not much different than human beings 10,000 years ago. The human condition has been known to us a very long time. You are presuming that the writings in the Bible are literal. You assume that when they spoke of God's vengeance they literally believed that God was personally responsible for smiting them. The problem is they would know that when they violated the moral law nothing bad happened to them. Often times they got away with it. Just like we do today. That doesn't mean there is no moral law. It only means that the consequences of violating it are not immediate. It also doesn't mean there are no consequences either. We know from our own experiences that people who behave without virtue will naturally suffer predictable consequences. It may seem like a surprise to them but we all know that if you cheat or steal or kill long enough, your actions will have consequences. So while you read the Bible literally, I don't. I understand that the Bible is a how to book. It is not a book of fairy tales. It is a book of profound wisdom.

I don't know what heaven and hell are. My human mind cannot comprehend anything outside of space and time. The best I can say is that our matter was created at the moment space and time were created and that when we die the energy that animates us will either return to the creator or it won't. Heaven is being joined with the source of our energy. Hell is being separated from the source of our energy. Based on what I know, He does not destroy what He creates.

All I can say is theists like you are not the problem

But don't forget the war science had with religion. Yes religions done a lot of good. Any business has to provide a product people want and religion has. I don't wish religions away because that's a big part of our economy.

What has atheism got us? This is a secular society so true freedom to not have to worship.

Thank you. Just so you know, history proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that militant atheism leads to communism. So your exact same concern about religion should also exist with atheism. Radical behavior leads to problems. You might want to think about your response the next time you see a militant atheist being militant.

 

[ding]

What the fuck do you believe and what is your evidence for that belief? Is your evidence that I am wrong? That's not evidence, dumbass. Please tell me that you can make a positive case for your beliefs. Please tell me that you are not some dumbass critical theorists who has no basis for his beliefs.

As i stated MANY times before, i have no belief in any conceptualization of a "god"; i am agnostic and honest about my ignorance.

And as I have stated many times before and proven through logic, you are full of shit. It is irrational for you to believe that you are ignostic and be arguing against the existence of God. Ignosticism is the idea that the question of the existence of God is meaningless, because the term "god" has no unambiguous definition. So here you are engaging in an argument that you have already defined as meaningless. Which means that it isn't so meaningless to you and it is irrational to define yourself as ignostic.

Hold on to your emotions! LOL.
I am ignostic about your idea of a "God".
I am agnostic about a logical argument for a "god" if rationally defined.

Try to keep up!

You are also a liar, lol.
Is There A God?

I prefer honesty & am ignostic.

I did not lie.
Why did you believe that?
Can you state your logical argument for that false belief?

Good Lord, it was your own words which convicted you.

 

[PK1]

Let's see your evidence, or are you a brainless robot like you appear?

What the fuck do you believe and what is your evidence for that belief? Is your evidence that I am wrong? That's not evidence, dumbass. Please tell me that you can make a positive case for your beliefs. Please tell me that you are not some dumbass critical theorists who has no basis for his beliefs.

As i stated MANY times before, i have no belief in any conceptualization of a "god"; i am agnostic and honest about my ignorance.

And as I have stated many times before and proven through logic, you are full of shit. It is irrational for you to believe that you are ignostic and be arguing against the existence of God. Ignosticism is the idea that the question of the existence of God is meaningless, because the term "god" has no unambiguous definition. So here you are engaging in an argument that you have already defined as meaningless. Which means that it isn't so meaningless to you and it is irrational to define yourself as ignostic.

Hold on to your emotions! LOL.
I am ignostic about your idea of a "God".
I am agnostic about a logical argument for a "god" if rationally defined.

Try to keep up!

Let me now dissect your new found identity as an agnostic. How many times have you argued with an atheist about their beliefs, lol?

Many times, but it depends on the claim.
This is getting tiring; you either don't read or you are unable to understand what I said before.
You think in black/white with a disposition for pressing the "easy button".

The basic definition of "atheist" is no believe in theism (a-theist). I agree with that "weak atheist" position with regard to current claims.
I do not agree with "strong atheists" who claim there is no god or gods.
It's really not that difficult to understand, if you actually think about it with an open mind.

I gotta go and attend to much more important tasks ...

 

[ding]

What the fuck do you believe and what is your evidence for that belief? Is your evidence that I am wrong? That's not evidence, dumbass. Please tell me that you can make a positive case for your beliefs. Please tell me that you are not some dumbass critical theorists who has no basis for his beliefs.

As i stated MANY times before, i have no belief in any conceptualization of a "god"; i am agnostic and honest about my ignorance.

And as I have stated many times before and proven through logic, you are full of shit. It is irrational for you to believe that you are ignostic and be arguing against the existence of God. Ignosticism is the idea that the question of the existence of God is meaningless, because the term "god" has no unambiguous definition. So here you are engaging in an argument that you have already defined as meaningless. Which means that it isn't so meaningless to you and it is irrational to define yourself as ignostic.

Hold on to your emotions! LOL.
I am ignostic about your idea of a "God".
I am agnostic about a logical argument for a "god" if rationally defined.

Try to keep up!

Let me now dissect your new found identity as an agnostic. How many times have you argued with an atheist about their beliefs, lol?

Many times, but it depends on the claim.
This is getting tiring; you either don't read or you are unable to understand what I said before.
You think in black/white with a disposition for pressing the "easy button".

The basic definition of "atheist" is no believe in theism (a-theist). I agree with that "weak atheist" position with regard to current claims.
I do not agree with "strong atheists" who claim there is no god or gods.
It's really not that difficult to understand, if you actually think about it with an open mind.

I gotta go and attend to much more important tasks ...

Like I already told you... your own words convict you.

Is There A God?

If you have argued with an atheist many times, then it shouldn't be too hard for you to post a link to one of those many conversations in this forum, right?

 

[sealybobo]

Then why do blacks today, even the successful ones, think the GOP is racist?

Republicans now have a chance to win blacks over. Remember "what have you got to lose"? This goes for the poorly educated blue collar whites. Time for Republicans to show us what they got.

Please don't fuck us like bush Tom delay and Dennis hastert did

Who says they do?

You ever watch blackish? But you make a good point. Us libs can't have it both ways. We say southern Democrats were racist but now southern Republicans are. So it's possible for parties to change. You claim the GOP is not racist and it's the best party for working class people. Moving forward let's see.

I will forgive all past sins. Let's forget the past. I have an open mind. God if you're out there give me a sign

The more Republican the south became the less racist it became. All of the bad things that happened in the south happened when Democrats were in charge of the south.

Well I think the KKK in the 80s, 90's, 2000 and 2010s vote GOP, no?

I don't believe they did. Why would they? Republicans want to get blacks off of the economic plantation. Republicans want to end the black genocide of abortion. Democrats want to pay for your abortions. They even have it written in their party platform for crying out loud. Why else do they put planned parenthood abortion mills close to black population centers? I believe the KKK are the biggest supporters and donors of planned parenthood. You do realize that black babies are three times more likely to be aborted than white babies, right?

Under those ghetto conditions yes I understand why.

You fix their economic opportunities and they have no reason to abort. As of now the ghettos already have too many baby daddies and not enough fathers.