If God doesn't exist...

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About time you shut the fuck up. :clap2:

no comment, Nazi
Projecting on me isn't a comment? Are you more confused than usual? You should just turn yourself in.

no comment, Nazi
A Jew got your tongue?

This sentence is not translatable. What do you like to know from me, Nazi?
Why don't you turn yourself in as the nazi that you are?
 
no comment, Nazi
Projecting on me isn't a comment? Are you more confused than usual? You should just turn yourself in.

no comment, Nazi
A Jew got your tongue?

This sentence is not translatable. What do you like to know from me, Nazi?
Why don't you turn yourself in as the nazi that you are?

This sentence is not translatable too. So again: What do you like to know from me, Nazi?
 
This sentence is not translatable. What do you like to know from me, Nazi?

(excluding MUDDA) -


what religion were the +90% German's that voted for H and of those how few relied on the bible for their guidance ....

.

For Hitlers NSDAP voted about 33% of the Germans in the last free elections in November 1932. The worst results had the NSDAP in Berlin and in the catholic regions of Germany. The best result for the NSDAP was in the East of Germany - in the regions where today is Poland, Russia and Czechoslovakia.
 
images


...and science holds the answer to all questions....

Then what kick started the universe?

After all we wouldn't want to violate one of Newton's three laws now would we?

If the scientific answer at this time is we don't know...

Then doesn't that mean a miracle occurred?

*****CHUCKLE*****



:D

That's a good point. I don't see how empirical science can ever explain why the physical universe exists; only trace things further and further back. Just like you could never explain how or why a computer was built simply by examining the internal parts.
 
Back to the grind.

1. Since you know something about astronomy, then you should know that ancient astronomers counted the stars they could see in ancient times and thought around 3,000. How right was your astronomy?

Getting back to the issue, how are the astronomers exactly calculating the distances? What I pointed out is it is faulty and showed the evidence. They used lightyears as distance. Wouldn't going at the speed of light mean that the light is traveling through spacetime since Einstein was correct? This means that their distance calculation is faulty since they are not taking time slowing down and coming to a standstill at the event horizon. That is, how can lightyears be accurate if time slows down? The whole point of the number of years or time comes in because we are trying to determine the age of the earth and the universe and whether it is around 13.7 billion years old or 6,000 years old. When we get into that realm, then one is using cosmology and not astronomy. Cosmology is more philosophy than science.

To answer your questions about what bearing it has observing distant stars, i.e. the light reaching us from them, not much in regards to creation scientists in answering the age of the earth or the universe. Don't get me wrong, creationists do not deny that stars can change or "evolve." However, this cannot viably account for the origin of stars, nor the timescales which I gather is what you want me to explain. Another problem with astronomy is that they use magnitude or size and power, i.e. the amount of light that a star can emit as to its "greatness." The sun and the moon is what is considered greatness to the creation scientist, not size and power. Jesus loved the sun and the moon. There is more, but I'll stop here.

2. So we saw that there is great difficulty of "proving" the age of the earth or the universe using distance from stars. However, the supernova count is something we can agree on, and the number shows a young earth. If the universe were billions of years old, then there would be many more supernovas observed. This isn't based on time and distance of stars.

3. I believe that the theory of evolution does not work much at all. We both use the word "evolution" which is fine, but not the ToE.

4. So if the evidence shows hundreds of years, will you accept it or discard it?

5. I brought up a good one in #2 since we were on astronomy. Another is the moon's recession and age. Currently the moon’s orbit is inclined at about 5 degrees to the earth’s orbit. If you extrapolate back in time revealed that 4.5 billion years ago, then the inclination would have been about 10 degrees. The cause of this inclination has been a mystery for 30 years, as most dynamical processes, such as those that act to flatten Saturn’s rings, will tend to "decrease" orbital inclinations. What we find is this inclination has not changed much at all as in a 6,000 year old moon. If your cosmologists were correct, then we should be close to 0 degrees inclination and a lunar eclipse should occur at each full phase.
1. As unsubstanciated claims go the fact that you say acient astronomers thaught after counting there's only 3000 stars is a dozy; Give me a link because it's easily refuted, baseless, and doesn't have any bearing on this discussion.
As to the rest of your statement. Light has a calculatable speed it's finite, this has been done and proven,it's not ambigious in the least. You can throw terms as spacetime and event horizon in there as much as you want, it's stupid to try to put it in doubt. Observable universe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I post this link, again using wikipedia. If nothing else it proves that what I'm telling you is ACCEPTED scientific knowledge.
2. The explosion of a supernova is an explosive event. A star that goes supernova goes from dim to insanely bright to a gascloud or a pulsar. So explain to me exactly why we would have observed more supernova's? Oh and btw the existence of supernova refutes a young universe since a supernova is the result of a star burning all it's fuel. So unless you want to claim that this takes less then 6000 years, the mere existence of supernova proves that the universe is older then 6000 years.
3. Evolution works just fine and is logical and rational. Creatonism isn't. Because it has to literally go against basicly all scientific knowledge for it to work as a theory, wich is exactly why I find it problematic. So far you have had to try to cast in doubt how astronomers calculate distance, any type of dating method and the entire fossil record. You have basicly come out and said that sientist are delibaretly witholding data that proves creatonism, without any evidence to support it.
4. Show me 1 acient human tooth wich, I'll make it easy is say older then 150 years old based on it's emaile and I'll grant you that humans in acient times lived longer.
5. I'm so glad you brought up the moon. Accepted science, think it likely that the moon used to be part of the earth and was formed after a collision between earth and another protoplanet they think it likely because
  • Earth's spin and the Moon's orbit have similar orientations.
  • Moon samples indicate that the Moon once had a molten surface.
  • The Moon has a relatively small iro.n core.
  • The Moon has a lower density than Earth.
  • Evidence exists of similar collisions in other star systems (that result in debris disks).
  • Giant collisions are consistent with the leading theories of the formation of the solar system.
  • The stable-isotope ratios of lunar and terrestrial rock are identical, implying a common origin.

1. What unsubstantiated claim? The naked eye can see about 3000 stars. That's a fact.

Some Big Questions about Stars Seen in the Night Sky

2. Prove the mere existence of a supernova means that the universe > 6,000 years???
3. Very little in the ToE that has been proven, i.e. backed by science. Like I said, science was started by people who believed in God to show how great He is.
4. We'll have to wait for the evidence from ancient remains. This one we should be able to get an answer to unlike the age of the earth.
5. Is this from evolutionary thought? Then it's so wrong. Have to run. Will explain later.
I'll just answer point 2: How Quickly Does a Supernova Happen? - Universe Today
This is how we understand supernova's. It takes a couple of million years to happen minimaly. The fact that we see it means the earth is at least that old. Like I said before I don't need to prove the earth is billions of years old, altough it surely is. I just need to prove it's older then 6000 years old.

Hahaha. So you admit that secular scientists do not know what they are talking about. Again, atheist scientists are wrong (this is how science works, you see). They claim that the universe is around 13.7 billion years old. It fluctuated from 20 billion to 15 billion and now around 13.7 billion. Hey, what's a few billion years among friends? The number of supernovas that we can count is a good indicator that the Earth is around 6,000 years old instead of billions. Another is as I have pointed out the Earth's landscape and how it was formed by catastrophism, not unifamitarianism.
  • First of all, I love how you use secular scientist like you have a equal battery of creasionist scientists. Note I don't say religious scientists, because there are ALOT of religious scientists. And the univere being older then 6000 years is a debate you will only find in places like this. Among scientists it is a certainty. Now to your point.HubbleSite - NewsCenter - Star > Supernova These are all pictures from Hubble of remnants of black holes. It's not like a supernova leaves a Bright star forever, It is a short event and afterwarths it leaves that. So I'll ask again how do you feel the number of supernova's found proves your point? Oh and btw note that The official Hubble site and NASA aren't the least bit hesitant to talk about billions of years, but you and your religiousy inspired friends feel you guys know more. If the entire scientific community the exeption being a few wayward scientist on the payroll of the creasionist museum, sais you are wrong. I find it a bit funny you guys feel you are smarter then all of them because a couple of thousand year old book sais so.
  • I agree that catastrophes made the earth into what it is today. Funny tough that the only catastrophe you seem to accept is the Great flood. You have the impacter which killed of the dinosaurs. As I mentioned before the place of impact has been found using sattelites and traces of the impact are found in the Irridium layer you find globally. There are numerous Supervolcano erruptions wich have been proven by finding layers of ash and which surely would have had an enormous impact on the global climate. There are also Flood basalts proven by large areas covered by basalt which are even bigger events. The Siberian traps which is to believed to have gone for a million years and released at a minimum 1 million cubic kilometers of lava. Humanity has been writing for nearly 5000 years and I'll be generous lets not count early writing but lets start whith Egypt.Which writing we have deciphred putting the earliest written accounts at about 3000 B.C., again being generous. None of these writings talk about explosions and ashfalls, volcanic winters or anything. There has been writings about a year without a summer linked to mount Tambora a pipsqueek compared to a supervolcano. And a mini ice age linked to decreased solar activity. What we haven't found any prove off is a Global Flood. Tsunamies yes but not a flood that covered the entire planet. I just want to know, in your version of history how do you explain all these humongous events wich leave traces in the ground but not literature and a great flood which leaves traces in literature but not the ground? Do you feel Literature trumps geoligical records?

1. I am with the creation scientists, but am open minded enough to listen to the atheists ones. Really, atheist scientists rule the science world today. It's gone 180 degrees from the time Christians ran the show. And what do we get? Much wrong hypotheses and science is headed in the wrong direction. Look at how many atheists embrace science today, but they usually are wrong or do not know what they are talking about. If I were a scientists, then I would not talk about creation. That isn't accepted in the science world ruled by atheist scientists and one could lose their job. Scientists today take themselves way too seriously and have led us down the wrong path since the 1800s. Another evidence for the earth being 6000 years old and from astronomy is the recession of the moon. I said Jesus ♥ moon, so it is one of the reasons why.

"... the moon induces tides on Earth, the planet rotates faster than the moon orbits and the tidal bulges get “ahead” of the moon. They then pull forward on the moon, causing it to gain orbital energy and move away from Earth. The effect is small but measurable—the moon moves away from the Earth by about 1.5 inches every year. The recession effect would have been larger in the past, because if the moon were closer to the earth, the tides would be larger. If we extrapolate this effect into a hypothetical past, we find that the moon would have been touching Earth 1.4 billion years ago."

A Young Moon
The Solar System: Earth and Moon | The Institute for Creation Research

2. At last, we find some common ground in that you believe in catastrophism. Usually, there is no overlap. The evidence of the global flood is 3/4 of our planet is covered by water. Evolutionists do not have an explanation. The flood waters came from underneath the earth. There is no system that would cause a global flood and global extinction. The great flood also changed our lives for the worse. The hypothesis of dinosaurs being made extinct by an asteroid impact, large volcanoes, and climate change is not correct.

creation-timeline.jpg
 
This sentence is not translatable. What do you like to know from me, Nazi?

(excluding MUDDA) -


what religion were the +90% German's that voted for H and of those how few relied on the bible for their guidance ....

.

For Hitlers NSDAP voted about 33% of the Germans in the last free elections in November 1932. The worst results had the NSDAP in Berlin and in the catholic regions of Germany. The best result for the NSDAP was in the East of Germany - in the regions where today is Poland, Russia and Czechoslovakia.


for may reasons the 90% is common and a fact of history -


Adolf Hitler becomes president of Germany - Aug 19, 1934 - HISTORY.com

But that was not enough for Hitler either. In February 1933, Hitler blamed a devastating Reichstag fire on the communists ....

A plebiscite vote was held on August 19. Intimidation, and fear of the communists, brought Hitler a 90 percent majority. He was now, for all intents and purposes, dictator.



The worst results had the NSDAP in Berlin ...


- those damn LIBERALS ....



playing the commie card - or - business as usual, which one zaang or are they one in the same.

.
 
This sentence is not translatable. What do you like to know from me, Nazi?

(excluding MUDDA) -


what religion were the +90% German's that voted for H and of those how few relied on the bible for their guidance ....

.

For Hitlers NSDAP voted about 33% of the Germans in the last free elections in November 1932. The worst results had the NSDAP in Berlin and in the catholic regions of Germany. The best result for the NSDAP was in the East of Germany - in the regions where today is Poland, Russia and Czechoslovakia.


for may reasons the 90% is common and a fact of history -


Adolf Hitler becomes president of Germany - Aug 19, 1934 - HISTORY.com

But that was not enough for Hitler either. In February 1933, Hitler blamed a devastating Reichstag fire on the communists ....

A plebiscite vote was held on August 19. Intimidation, and fear of the communists, brought Hitler a 90 percent majority. He was now, for all intents and purposes, dictator.


The worst results had the NSDAP in Berlin ...


- those damn LIBERALS ....]

And where Catholics lived.


playing the commie card - or - business as usual, which one zaang or are they one in the same.

.

I have the feeling your are very confused. In 11/1932 about 1/3 of the Germans voted for the NSDAP - most of this people protested against an economy system what had caused the great depression. Hitler used this chance and within only one year he transformed Germany into something what even today no one seems to be able to understand. And the sympathy of the world was with Hitler in the first years. Not many people in the world protested against the concentration camp Dachau, which the Nazis created immediatelly in 1933. This was the prototpye of all german concentration and extermination camps. Not many protested when the Nazis made racistic laws against Jews in 1935. Everywhere in the world existed racistic laws in those days. And everyone came to the Olympic Games in 1936. The catholic church tried to criticize Hitler in 1937 in the encyclica "Mit brennender Sorge" - the only encyclica which ever was written in german language. They tried for example to introduce a right for a spiritual support of prisoners, so priests, rabbis and others would had been able to take a look to their imprisoned people. But no one else supported this. On the other side also lots of people tried to murder Hitler - very astonishing, because to try to kill a leader of the state was without any tradition in our country. Still today I'm not able to understand how he survived more than 40 serios tryings to kill him. In 1938 Hitler and Stalin - I call them the right and left jawbone of the devil - together started world war 2 with the so called Molotow-Ribbentrop-Pakt. The USA decided to work together with the devil Stalin against the devil Hitler - was this a christian decision? I would say "yes". Was it a christain decision when Hitler gave to everyone who married instead of the bible his book "Mein Kampf"? I would say "no". And I would say to try to see in the Nazis a catholic movement is as absurde as to try to see in Stalin an orthodox movement, or in the english allies a protestant movement. What we all can see easily is a broken world.

But let me go to the present time. In Europe exists for example an umbrella organisation of conservative parties. The german conservative Party CDU - the party of Mrs. Merkel, our chanellor - was not allowed to be a member of this Club because they are Christians and in the middle of the society - not far right. So England (= the english speaking world) - the so called "torries" there - supported a political party with the name "AfD" and helped this conservative german protesters - although in this political party are lots of Nazis. I was very astonished when I noticed this because no one in the AfD had ever done anything for Germany in this moment of history. Now Mrs. Merkel made some mistakes - under influence of the anglo-american world politics - and the AfD got more mighty. So now 10% of all Catholics here have a tendancy to vote for this party - 13% of all protestants have a tendancy to vote for this party - and 19% of people without religious confession have this tendancy. I guess the relation 2:3:4 was also in 1932 existing. So I would say in 1932 voted 12 Million people in Germany for Hitler. In this case about 6-7 milllion Christians voted for Hitler. 35 million people voted. If you are right and 90% were Christians then 31,5 million Christians voted. So about 20%-25% of all Christians (Protestants and Catholics) voted in 1932 for Hitler what means 75%-80% of the Christians were not for Hitler. Confused? Me too. But maybe it's a better confusion now.



PS: In the Video above the following line is wrong: "Ich halte sie selig umfangen und sie kennt mein heißes Verlangen das Brennen erwacht". It has to be "Ich halte sie selig umfangen und sie kennt mein heißes Verlangen, das brennend erwacht."
 
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1. As unsubstanciated claims go the fact that you say acient astronomers thaught after counting there's only 3000 stars is a dozy; Give me a link because it's easily refuted, baseless, and doesn't have any bearing on this discussion.
As to the rest of your statement. Light has a calculatable speed it's finite, this has been done and proven,it's not ambigious in the least. You can throw terms as spacetime and event horizon in there as much as you want, it's stupid to try to put it in doubt. Observable universe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I post this link, again using wikipedia. If nothing else it proves that what I'm telling you is ACCEPTED scientific knowledge.
2. The explosion of a supernova is an explosive event. A star that goes supernova goes from dim to insanely bright to a gascloud or a pulsar. So explain to me exactly why we would have observed more supernova's? Oh and btw the existence of supernova refutes a young universe since a supernova is the result of a star burning all it's fuel. So unless you want to claim that this takes less then 6000 years, the mere existence of supernova proves that the universe is older then 6000 years.
3. Evolution works just fine and is logical and rational. Creatonism isn't. Because it has to literally go against basicly all scientific knowledge for it to work as a theory, wich is exactly why I find it problematic. So far you have had to try to cast in doubt how astronomers calculate distance, any type of dating method and the entire fossil record. You have basicly come out and said that sientist are delibaretly witholding data that proves creatonism, without any evidence to support it.
4. Show me 1 acient human tooth wich, I'll make it easy is say older then 150 years old based on it's emaile and I'll grant you that humans in acient times lived longer.
5. I'm so glad you brought up the moon. Accepted science, think it likely that the moon used to be part of the earth and was formed after a collision between earth and another protoplanet they think it likely because
  • Earth's spin and the Moon's orbit have similar orientations.
  • Moon samples indicate that the Moon once had a molten surface.
  • The Moon has a relatively small iro.n core.
  • The Moon has a lower density than Earth.
  • Evidence exists of similar collisions in other star systems (that result in debris disks).
  • Giant collisions are consistent with the leading theories of the formation of the solar system.
  • The stable-isotope ratios of lunar and terrestrial rock are identical, implying a common origin.

1. What unsubstantiated claim? The naked eye can see about 3000 stars. That's a fact.

Some Big Questions about Stars Seen in the Night Sky

2. Prove the mere existence of a supernova means that the universe > 6,000 years???
3. Very little in the ToE that has been proven, i.e. backed by science. Like I said, science was started by people who believed in God to show how great He is.
4. We'll have to wait for the evidence from ancient remains. This one we should be able to get an answer to unlike the age of the earth.
5. Is this from evolutionary thought? Then it's so wrong. Have to run. Will explain later.
I'll just answer point 2: How Quickly Does a Supernova Happen? - Universe Today
This is how we understand supernova's. It takes a couple of million years to happen minimaly. The fact that we see it means the earth is at least that old. Like I said before I don't need to prove the earth is billions of years old, altough it surely is. I just need to prove it's older then 6000 years old.

Hahaha. So you admit that secular scientists do not know what they are talking about. Again, atheist scientists are wrong (this is how science works, you see). They claim that the universe is around 13.7 billion years old. It fluctuated from 20 billion to 15 billion and now around 13.7 billion. Hey, what's a few billion years among friends? The number of supernovas that we can count is a good indicator that the Earth is around 6,000 years old instead of billions. Another is as I have pointed out the Earth's landscape and how it was formed by catastrophism, not unifamitarianism.
  • First of all, I love how you use secular scientist like you have a equal battery of creasionist scientists. Note I don't say religious scientists, because there are ALOT of religious scientists. And the univere being older then 6000 years is a debate you will only find in places like this. Among scientists it is a certainty. Now to your point.HubbleSite - NewsCenter - Star > Supernova These are all pictures from Hubble of remnants of black holes. It's not like a supernova leaves a Bright star forever, It is a short event and afterwarths it leaves that. So I'll ask again how do you feel the number of supernova's found proves your point? Oh and btw note that The official Hubble site and NASA aren't the least bit hesitant to talk about billions of years, but you and your religiousy inspired friends feel you guys know more. If the entire scientific community the exeption being a few wayward scientist on the payroll of the creasionist museum, sais you are wrong. I find it a bit funny you guys feel you are smarter then all of them because a couple of thousand year old book sais so.
  • I agree that catastrophes made the earth into what it is today. Funny tough that the only catastrophe you seem to accept is the Great flood. You have the impacter which killed of the dinosaurs. As I mentioned before the place of impact has been found using sattelites and traces of the impact are found in the Irridium layer you find globally. There are numerous Supervolcano erruptions wich have been proven by finding layers of ash and which surely would have had an enormous impact on the global climate. There are also Flood basalts proven by large areas covered by basalt which are even bigger events. The Siberian traps which is to believed to have gone for a million years and released at a minimum 1 million cubic kilometers of lava. Humanity has been writing for nearly 5000 years and I'll be generous lets not count early writing but lets start whith Egypt.Which writing we have deciphred putting the earliest written accounts at about 3000 B.C., again being generous. None of these writings talk about explosions and ashfalls, volcanic winters or anything. There has been writings about a year without a summer linked to mount Tambora a pipsqueek compared to a supervolcano. And a mini ice age linked to decreased solar activity. What we haven't found any prove off is a Global Flood. Tsunamies yes but not a flood that covered the entire planet. I just want to know, in your version of history how do you explain all these humongous events wich leave traces in the ground but not literature and a great flood which leaves traces in literature but not the ground? Do you feel Literature trumps geoligical records?

1. I am with the creation scientists, but am open minded enough to listen to the atheists ones. Really, atheist scientists rule the science world today. It's gone 180 degrees from the time Christians ran the show. And what do we get? Much wrong hypotheses and science is headed in the wrong direction. Look at how many atheists embrace science today, but they usually are wrong or do not know what they are talking about. If I were a scientists, then I would not talk about creation. That isn't accepted in the science world ruled by atheist scientists and one could lose their job. Scientists today take themselves way too seriously and have led us down the wrong path since the 1800s. Another evidence for the earth being 6000 years old and from astronomy is the recession of the moon. I said Jesus ♥ moon, so it is one of the reasons why.

"... the moon induces tides on Earth, the planet rotates faster than the moon orbits and the tidal bulges get “ahead” of the moon. They then pull forward on the moon, causing it to gain orbital energy and move away from Earth. The effect is small but measurable—the moon moves away from the Earth by about 1.5 inches every year. The recession effect would have been larger in the past, because if the moon were closer to the earth, the tides would be larger. If we extrapolate this effect into a hypothetical past, we find that the moon would have been touching Earth 1.4 billion years ago."

A Young Moon
The Solar System: Earth and Moon | The Institute for Creation Research

2. At last, we find some common ground in that you believe in catastrophism. Usually, there is no overlap. The evidence of the global flood is 3/4 of our planet is covered by water. Evolutionists do not have an explanation. The flood waters came from underneath the earth. There is no system that would cause a global flood and global extinction. The great flood also changed our lives for the worse. The hypothesis of dinosaurs being made extinct by an asteroid impact, large volcanoes, and climate change is not correct.

creation-timeline.jpg
K, like I said. There is a VERY small amount of scientist who are Creasionist, I'm guessing here but i'dd be suprised if there's more then a hundred, and I'm pretty sure that most if not all are directly payed by Creasionist groups.Second, Like your link clearly shows you find 1 clearly biased article, there are a bunch of articles from reputable unbiased sources to support mine. Whith unbiased I mean, my sources have no links to atheist groups who are out to disprove Creationism,tey are simple scientist hypothesising. Third I've been very patient here in my posts. If I say something I always point out how I support what I say. If you ask me a specific question, I answer or provide a link wich answers it better then I can. I've asked you quite a few direct questions which you never answer. I think I've also been very clear I think in how I reach my conclusions, I don't use technobabble, since I'm a layman myself I wouldn't be able to provide it even if I wanted to. So anyone can follow my thinking. So far, the burden of proof has been squarely on my shoulders, altough my hypothesis doesn't involve an invisible, unprovable force.So if you are not capable or willing to answer a couple of questions clearly in this post. I'll consider this conversation done. I'm sorry to be a bit rude about it. But an argument becomes pretty dull when all it is me explaining my thinking over and over and never get something substantive back as to how you come to your conclusions. And just so you know. I'm not even close to out of ways to disprove a young earth. I haven't talked about ice core's, ice ages etc.
1. how do you feel the number of supernova's found proves your point?
2. 'The hypothesis of dinosaurs being made extinct by an asteroid impact, large volcanoes, and climate change is not correct.' So supervolcanoes don't exist and haven't exploded in the past? They have found the crater of the impacter and there is a uniform layer of a very rare element found in the same layer of rock. What's the crater and how did Irridium get dispersed so evenly?
3. Why would science in all it fields concoct a story to disprove Creationism? (motive)
I have more but start with those.
 
The catholic church tried to criticize Hitler in 1937 in the encyclica "Mit brennender Sorge"

th



I have the feeling your are very confused.

your account of history reminds me of an Ostrich and why history repeats itself.


And I would say to try to see in the Nazis a catholic movement is as absurde as to try to see in Stalin an orthodox movement

you are showing your hand zaang, Stalin was placed in power through the abuses of religion where the above photo demonstrates the abuse of religion being used by both the State and the Clergy as is the case today being the same for the biblicists - zaang.

.
 
The catholic church tried to criticize Hitler in 1937 in the encyclica "Mit brennender Sorge"

th

What do you see on this picture? I see Hitler speaking with one of his marionettes, the leader of the Nazi-organisation "Deutsche Christen" (="German Christians"). This is Ludwig Müller, isn't it? The Nazis were excellent propgagandists. The organisation "Deutsche Christen" undermined the protestants in Germany. They tried for example to eliminate the Old Testament and they tried to transform "Jesus" (=the son of a german soldier who served in the roman army) in a kind of germanic demigod, who fought with a sword in the hand against Jews. Absurde ideas. Dietrich Bonhoffer and his "Bekennende Kirche" spoke a ban against this organsition.



I have the feeling your are very confused.

your account of history reminds me of an Ostrich and why history repeats itself.

Because Hitler tried to erase all Jews biologically from this panet you try now to erase all Christians spiritually from this planet? ... Whatever. ... History is for me more a kind of natural law not a game. I would say: Panta rei - Nothing repeats in history. And I would say: God is always new. On the other side: ignorant and agressive characters make ignorant and agressive decisions - and ignorant and agressive decisions lead to an ignorant an agressive world with a growing ignorant and agressive mentality.

And I would say to try to see in the Nazis a catholic movement is as absurde as to try to see in Stalin an orthodox movement

you are showing your hand zaang, Stalin was placed in power through the abuses of religion where the above photo demonstrates the abuse of religion being used by both the State and the Clergy as is the case today being the same for the biblicists - zaang.

Stalin was a criminal mass-murderer - maybe even much more worse than Hitler.

 
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th


What do you see on this picture? I see Hitler speaking with one of his marionettes, the leader of the Nazi-organisation "Deutsche Christen" (="German Christians"). This is Ludwig Müller, isn't it?

are you serious :dig: that is Pope Pius XII shaking hands with H ....



Because Hitler tried to erase all Jews biologically from this panet you try now to erase all Christians spiritually from this planet? ... Whatever.

the jews, islamist and christians are peas in the same pod, without religion and are a threat to humanity.


History is for me more a kind of natural law not a game. I would say: Panta rei - Nothing repeats in history. And I would say: God is always new. On the other side: ignorant and agressive characters make ignorant and agressive decisions - and ignorant and agressive decisions lead to an ignorant an agressive world with a growing ignorant and agressive mentality.

the latter half describes organized (scriptural) religion in a nut shell, for nuts ....

.
 
1. As unsubstanciated claims go the fact that you say acient astronomers thaught after counting there's only 3000 stars is a dozy; Give me a link because it's easily refuted, baseless, and doesn't have any bearing on this discussion.
As to the rest of your statement. Light has a calculatable speed it's finite, this has been done and proven,it's not ambigious in the least. You can throw terms as spacetime and event horizon in there as much as you want, it's stupid to try to put it in doubt. Observable universe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I post this link, again using wikipedia. If nothing else it proves that what I'm telling you is ACCEPTED scientific knowledge.
2. The explosion of a supernova is an explosive event. A star that goes supernova goes from dim to insanely bright to a gascloud or a pulsar. So explain to me exactly why we would have observed more supernova's? Oh and btw the existence of supernova refutes a young universe since a supernova is the result of a star burning all it's fuel. So unless you want to claim that this takes less then 6000 years, the mere existence of supernova proves that the universe is older then 6000 years.
3. Evolution works just fine and is logical and rational. Creatonism isn't. Because it has to literally go against basicly all scientific knowledge for it to work as a theory, wich is exactly why I find it problematic. So far you have had to try to cast in doubt how astronomers calculate distance, any type of dating method and the entire fossil record. You have basicly come out and said that sientist are delibaretly witholding data that proves creatonism, without any evidence to support it.
4. Show me 1 acient human tooth wich, I'll make it easy is say older then 150 years old based on it's emaile and I'll grant you that humans in acient times lived longer.
5. I'm so glad you brought up the moon. Accepted science, think it likely that the moon used to be part of the earth and was formed after a collision between earth and another protoplanet they think it likely because
  • Earth's spin and the Moon's orbit have similar orientations.
  • Moon samples indicate that the Moon once had a molten surface.
  • The Moon has a relatively small iro.n core.
  • The Moon has a lower density than Earth.
  • Evidence exists of similar collisions in other star systems (that result in debris disks).
  • Giant collisions are consistent with the leading theories of the formation of the solar system.
  • The stable-isotope ratios of lunar and terrestrial rock are identical, implying a common origin.

1. What unsubstantiated claim? The naked eye can see about 3000 stars. That's a fact.

Some Big Questions about Stars Seen in the Night Sky

2. Prove the mere existence of a supernova means that the universe > 6,000 years???
3. Very little in the ToE that has been proven, i.e. backed by science. Like I said, science was started by people who believed in God to show how great He is.
4. We'll have to wait for the evidence from ancient remains. This one we should be able to get an answer to unlike the age of the earth.
5. Is this from evolutionary thought? Then it's so wrong. Have to run. Will explain later.
I'll just answer point 2: How Quickly Does a Supernova Happen? - Universe Today
This is how we understand supernova's. It takes a couple of million years to happen minimaly. The fact that we see it means the earth is at least that old. Like I said before I don't need to prove the earth is billions of years old, altough it surely is. I just need to prove it's older then 6000 years old.

Hahaha. So you admit that secular scientists do not know what they are talking about. Again, atheist scientists are wrong (this is how science works, you see). They claim that the universe is around 13.7 billion years old. It fluctuated from 20 billion to 15 billion and now around 13.7 billion. Hey, what's a few billion years among friends? The number of supernovas that we can count is a good indicator that the Earth is around 6,000 years old instead of billions. Another is as I have pointed out the Earth's landscape and how it was formed by catastrophism, not unifamitarianism.
  • First of all, I love how you use secular scientist like you have a equal battery of creasionist scientists. Note I don't say religious scientists, because there are ALOT of religious scientists. And the univere being older then 6000 years is a debate you will only find in places like this. Among scientists it is a certainty. Now to your point.HubbleSite - NewsCenter - Star > Supernova These are all pictures from Hubble of remnants of black holes. It's not like a supernova leaves a Bright star forever, It is a short event and afterwarths it leaves that. So I'll ask again how do you feel the number of supernova's found proves your point? Oh and btw note that The official Hubble site and NASA aren't the least bit hesitant to talk about billions of years, but you and your religiousy inspired friends feel you guys know more. If the entire scientific community the exeption being a few wayward scientist on the payroll of the creasionist museum, sais you are wrong. I find it a bit funny you guys feel you are smarter then all of them because a couple of thousand year old book sais so.
  • I agree that catastrophes made the earth into what it is today. Funny tough that the only catastrophe you seem to accept is the Great flood. You have the impacter which killed of the dinosaurs. As I mentioned before the place of impact has been found using sattelites and traces of the impact are found in the Irridium layer you find globally. There are numerous Supervolcano erruptions wich have been proven by finding layers of ash and which surely would have had an enormous impact on the global climate. There are also Flood basalts proven by large areas covered by basalt which are even bigger events. The Siberian traps which is to believed to have gone for a million years and released at a minimum 1 million cubic kilometers of lava. Humanity has been writing for nearly 5000 years and I'll be generous lets not count early writing but lets start whith Egypt.Which writing we have deciphred putting the earliest written accounts at about 3000 B.C., again being generous. None of these writings talk about explosions and ashfalls, volcanic winters or anything. There has been writings about a year without a summer linked to mount Tambora a pipsqueek compared to a supervolcano. And a mini ice age linked to decreased solar activity. What we haven't found any prove off is a Global Flood. Tsunamies yes but not a flood that covered the entire planet. I just want to know, in your version of history how do you explain all these humongous events wich leave traces in the ground but not literature and a great flood which leaves traces in literature but not the ground? Do you feel Literature trumps geoligical records?

1. I am with the creation scientists, but am open minded enough to listen to the atheists ones. Really, atheist scientists rule the science world today. It's gone 180 degrees from the time Christians ran the show. And what do we get? Much wrong hypotheses and science is headed in the wrong direction. Look at how many atheists embrace science today, but they usually are wrong or do not know what they are talking about. If I were a scientists, then I would not talk about creation. That isn't accepted in the science world ruled by atheist scientists and one could lose their job. Scientists today take themselves way too seriously and have led us down the wrong path since the 1800s. Another evidence for the earth being 6000 years old and from astronomy is the recession of the moon. I said Jesus ♥ moon, so it is one of the reasons why.

"... the moon induces tides on Earth, the planet rotates faster than the moon orbits and the tidal bulges get “ahead” of the moon. They then pull forward on the moon, causing it to gain orbital energy and move away from Earth. The effect is small but measurable—the moon moves away from the Earth by about 1.5 inches every year. The recession effect would have been larger in the past, because if the moon were closer to the earth, the tides would be larger. If we extrapolate this effect into a hypothetical past, we find that the moon would have been touching Earth 1.4 billion years ago."

A Young Moon
The Solar System: Earth and Moon | The Institute for Creation Research

2. At last, we find some common ground in that you believe in catastrophism. Usually, there is no overlap. The evidence of the global flood is 3/4 of our planet is covered by water. Evolutionists do not have an explanation. The flood waters came from underneath the earth. There is no system that would cause a global flood and global extinction. The great flood also changed our lives for the worse. The hypothesis of dinosaurs being made extinct by an asteroid impact, large volcanoes, and climate change is not correct.

creation-timeline.jpg
The Creationist Arguments
I don't know who first brought up the age of the Earth-moon system as a pro-creationist argument. But the first example I am aware of is Barnes (1982, 1984). Barnes says, "It has been known for 25 years that the earth-moon system cannot be that old", and assuring us that "Celestial mechanics proves that the moon cannot be as old as 4.5 billion years", goes on to quote the last sentence from Slichter's (1963) paper, "The time scale of the earth-moon system still presents a major problem" (in fact, Barnes should not have capitalized the "T" since this is a sentence fragment, not a full sentence, but in this case the oversight is inconsequential). It is noteworthy that Barnes is happy to quote a paper already 19 years old in 1982, and 21 years old in 1984, yet despite a research physics background, declines to bother researching anything post-Slichter. If he had, he would have found Lambeck (1980), a major work which clearly indicated the real nature of Slichter's dilemma (or even Stacey, 1977, which already showed the conflict between Slichter's theoretical dilemma and the paleontological evidence available at the time). And, of course, Kirk Hansen's 1982 paper predates Barnes' 1984 reiteration by two years, yet is ignored despite being recognized even then as a major step forward. Barnes shows the same kind of sloppy and lazy approach to "research" that permeates young-Earth creationism, although his is a particularly egregious case (as it also was for his arguments concerning Earth's magnetic field).

DeYoung (1992) offers his own model. Actually, he offers an equation. DeYoung asserts that the rate of change of the lunar distance as a function of time must be proportional to the inverse 6th power of the lunar distance (presumably because the lunar tidal amplitude is proportional to the inverse cube of the distance, and the tidal acceleration is proportional to the square of the amplitude, though DeYoung does not say this). He then runs some numbers in the equation, and concludes with remarkable poise that he has demonstrated a maximum possible tidal age for the Earth-moon system of 1.4 billion years. The same calculation can be found in Stacey (1977), with reference to more precise versions. They all get about the same answer as DeYoung, and there is no doubt but that what DeYoung did he did right. However, if you do the "wrong" problem, you may not get the "right" answer! As Stacey pointed out (Stacey, 1977, pages 102-103) it makes more sense to assume that the oceanic tidal dissipation was smaller in the past, which would have the effect of making the calculation that of a minimum age, as opposed to the maximum age proposed by DeYoung. But, of course, we are comparing DeYoung (1992) with Stacey (1977), a gap of 15 years (it's nice to see that DeYoung, like Barnes, is keeping up with the tempo of current research). That gap includes Lambeck (1980) and Hansen (1982) (wherein it was demonstrated that a 4.5 billion years age was compatible). Granted that DeYoung (1992) wrote before the 1994 papers of Kagan & Maslova or Touma & Wisdom, which are directly contradictory to his results. However, Hansen's (1980) results also directly contradict DeYoung, but come 12 years before. This observation does not inspire confidence in the value of DeYoung's one-equation model for the evolution of the lunar orbit. But, as made clear by Bills & Ray (1999), the constant of proportionality, which Stacey suggests is not constant, is in fact a ratio of factors that represent dissipation, and deformation. It is clear that neither of these can be constant, and once that is understood, we can see clearly that DeYoung simply did the wrong thing right, and curiously wound up with a correct form of the wrong answer.

Walter Brown (Brown, 1995) presents essentially the same model as DeYoung. I have seen only the online technical note, but not the printed book. Unfortunate, for the equations do not appear on the webpage, despite being referenced as if they were there. However, Brown does offer the quick-Basic source code for his program that calculates the minimum age of the Earth-moon system. His equations are there, and he seems to be using the inverse 5.5 power of the radius rather than the inverse 6th power used by DeYoung (Brown's usage here is consistent with the equation given by Bills & Ray, 1999; whether one chooses to use the inverse 6 or inverse 5.5 power seems an issue of model dependence). Otherwise, Brown's approach appears to be quite the same as DeYoung's, and subject to exactly the same criticism. He ignores the time variability of dissipation and deformation. It is perhaps humorously ironic that both DeYoung and Brown fail, because they are implicitly making an improper uniformitarian assumption (the constancy of dissipation and deformation), which evolutionists have learned to avoid.

Conclusions
I don't know if there are other, "authoritative" creationist sources for the "speedy moon" argument. But if there are, it is unlikely that their arguments presented differ much from those seen here. I spent quite a bit more time reviewing the actual science of the Earth-moon tidal interaction because once it is well developed, the flaw in the creationist arguments becomes so obvious that it hardly seems necessary to refute them. The most remarkable aspect of this, I think, is the somebody like DeYoung, who certainly has legitimate qualifications (a PhD in physics from Iowa State University), would offer up such a one-equation model as if it was actually definitive. That kind of thing works as a "back-of-the-envelope" calculation, to get the order of magnitude, or a first approximation for the right answer, but it should have been clear to an unbiased observer that it could never be a legitimaterealistic model. It is also of considerable interest that both DeYoung and Brown published their refutations of evolution only after evolution had already refuted their refutations! Barnes didn't do all that much better, having overlooked Hansen (1982) for two years. My own conclusion is that my intuitive expectations have been fulfilled, and creation "science" has lived up to its reputation of being either pre-falsified, or easy to falsify once the argument is evident.

As for the real science, remember that science is not a static pursuit, and the Earth-moon tidal evolution is not an entirely solved system. There is a lot that we know, and we do know a lot more than we did even 20 years ago. But even if we don't know everything, there are still some arguments which we can definitely rule out. A 10,000 year age (or anything like it) definitely falls in that category, and can be ruled out both by theory and practice.
The Recession of the Moon and the Age of the Earth-Moon System
This is the article I got this from it's heavily referenced.
Your article has 2 references.
This is an exert from a conference that 1 of those referenced autors attended
'During the question period, the first response was from John Baumgardner. He began by saying that as a committed Christian he was insulted by Dalrymple's characterization of creationists. He expressed his disappointment that the AGU had not invited speakers to present creationist arguments. His exchanges with Dalrymple became quite heated. This made me apprehensive that he would later come after me because in my presentation I would use a slide making fun of one of Baumgardner's sillier ideas — that giant whirlpools on the continents allowed dinosaurs and other large animals to survive until late in Noah's flood, thus explaining why their fossils occur high in the geologic column.'
Geologists Explain Evolution | NCSE
This is a short bio of the second referenced author, note where he works.
Dr. Danny R. Faulkner earned graduate degrees in physics and astronomy and taught at the University of South Carolina Lancaster for over 26 years. Dr. Faulkner is a member of the Creation Research Society and also serves as the editor of the Creation Research Society Quarterly. He has written more than a hundred papers in various astronomy and astrophysics journals.
The way I see it, in order for your worldview to be correct there has to be a massive scientific conspiracy to specifacly disprove a young earth. Entire branches of history, antropoligy, math, astronomy, chemistry, paleontoligy, astronomy, chemistry, bioligy, physics had to be falsified on purpose. Do you find that possible, logical or plausible? I personally think it way more logical that Creatonism is completly wrong.
 
To forkup and other atheists: The part you keep forgetting is what you consider billions of years is off because of spacetime. This has been demonstrated with two atomic clocks synchronized with each other and then one goes off into space. The more distance you go away from earth, the more time will have slowed. To be billions of years difference is a possibility.
No it isn't.
Special Relativity says that a surprising thing happens when you move through space-time, especially when your speed relative to other objects is close to the speed of light. Time goes slower for you than for the people you left behind. You won't notice this effect until you return to those stationary people.
Say you were 15 years old when you left Earth in a spacecraft traveling at about 99.5% of the speed of light (which is much faster than we can achieve now), and celebrated only five birthdays during your space voyage. When you get home at the age of 20, you would find that all your classmates were 65 years old, retired, and enjoying their grandchildren! Because time passed more slowly for you, you will have experienced only five years of life, while your classmates will have experienced a full 50 years. So our relative speed to stars is variable and not nearly the speed of light and even if it was there's no way it would acount for a margin of error in the billions, furthermore there's no reason special relativity would make us see FUTURE events now, so it doesn't even come close to explaining why we would be observing supernova's. Like I said the process take millions of years at a minimum. And take into account the light of that explosion takes time to reach us too.
 
th


What do you see on this picture? I see Hitler speaking with one of his marionettes, the leader of the Nazi-organisation "Deutsche Christen" (="German Christians"). This is Ludwig Müller, isn't it?

are you serious :dig: that is Pope Pius XII shaking hands with H ....

Such pictures are existing under the title "False Catholics" in the Internet. although they have nothing to do with the holy catholic church.

hitler_with_muller.jpg


hmmm ...

Hitler_Kirche_1934__429794g.jpg


... But you are right .The man in your picture is not the "bishop of the empire" (="Reichsbischof") Ludwig Müller.

You call him Pius XII but this is Pius XII:

piusxii.jpg


By the way: Even if a picture of a Pope with a devil would exist - what would this picture tell?

... Ah - got it :

ns-wahlplakat_nuntius_torregrossa_und_hitler.jpg


It's nuntius Torregrossa. This was in 1933. The Nazis used this picture for their politic Propaganda.

The text is:

-----
A festive moment at the laying of the foundation stone for the "house of the german arts".

The papal Nuntius Vassallo di Torregrossa speaks to the leader:

"I did not understand you. But a long time I tried to do so. Today I understand you".

And every german Catholic understands today Adolf Hitler and votes on 9/11 ... ah sorry 11/12 ... for Hitler with:

"Yes".

-----

Election propaganda, that's all. Could be by the way interesting to know what Nuntius Alberto Vassallo di Torregrossa really understood. Hitler tried to find something how to motivate Catholics to vote for him. Could also be interesting to know what you had voted in 1932 or 1933 if you had been one of the 31.5 from 35 million voters in Germany in this days and you had only the knowledge of this time and not the knowledeg of today. In the catholic regions of Germany and in Berlin Hitler had his worst and not his best results.

 
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...
Because Hitler tried to erase all Jews biologically from this panet you try now to erase all Christians spiritually from this planet? ... Whatever.

the jews, islamist and christians are peas in the same pod, without religion and are a threat to humanity. ...

What about to bring them all into concentration gulags in guantanamo and to kill this inhuman bastards like insects with gas - so they are not able to become Nazis, which could kill you? Or what about to build a hospital for hundreds of millions english speaking people, because they are the most insane mad world within this totally mad world of hundreds of most insane nations?

What are your rules? The most simple letter "I" ... except your remote controllers decide something else with their own "I"? Lots of great humanists on Earth were Jews and Christians. I'm not even sure wether real humanism could become real without the belief in god - although not everyone is able to believe in god.



Va, pensiero, sull’ali dorate;
va, ti posa sui clivi, sui colli,
ove olezzano tepide e molli
l’aure dolci del suolo natal!

Del Giordano le rive saluta,
di Sionne le torri atterrate…
O mia patria sì bella e perduta!
O membranza sì cara e fatal!

Arpa d’or dei fatidici vati,
perché muta dal salice pendi?
Le memorie nel petto riaccendi,
ci favella del tempo che fu!

O simile di Solima ai fati
traggi un suono di crudo lamento,
o t’ispiri il Signore un concento
che ne infonda al patire virtù.
 
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pope-pius-xii-meets-hitler.jpg


:dig: . I am not saying catholics, you are I am saying it was biblicist that were the core supporters who voted overwhelmingly for AH and catholics were among them.



I'm not even sure wether real humanism could become real without the belief in god - although not everyone is able to believe in god.


if it were not possible then there would be no test for the goal of Remission where uncertainty indubitably would be a qualification for Admission.

a naturalist may conclude there is a God but the conclusion is irrelevant in fact to the existence the naturalist is able to physically witness as being a path to the Everlasting as a prescription offered by the Almighty without a specific reason for its existence.



without the belief in god ...


you seem to be doing just fine with your scriptural belief of Jesus your christ.

.
 
pope-pius-xii-meets-hitler.jpg


:dig: . I am not saying catholics, you are I am saying it was biblicist that were the core supporters who voted overwhelmingly for AH and catholics were among them.



I'm not even sure wether real humanism could become real without the belief in god - although not everyone is able to believe in god.


if it were not possible then there would be no test for the goal of Remission where uncertainty indubitably would be a qualification for Admission.

a naturalist may conclude there is a God but the conclusion is irrelevant in fact to the existence the naturalist is able to physically witness as being a path to the Everlasting as a prescription offered by the Almighty without a specific reason for its existence.



without the belief in god ...


you seem to be doing just fine with your scriptural belief of Jesus your christ.

.

Sorry - but what said you here now? I don't understand what you like to say. I my ears what you try to tell me sounds absurde. I'm a Catholic and I'm a German. It's easy to know what Catholics believe and in case of Germany the history of Germany is not only the history between the years 1933-1945. If Hitler met anyone - completly independent who he met - what says this about the person he met? Nothing, isn't it? If you like to know something about the dictator Hitler then you have to study who were the people around him and who fullfilled his secret and/or criminal orders. But why is this important for you? Because you like to attack Catholics like Hitler attacked Poland?

 
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By the way: What shows this picture? What is the bad deed you see on this picture? Who are this people and what had happended there? What do you think is important in this context? Your proudness that your nation was a winner of world war 1+2 makes not any evil deed better what had happened during this time and afterwards and what's happening now in the world.

 
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By the way: What shows this picture? What is the bad deed you see on this picture? Who are this people and what had happended there? What do you think is important in this context? Your proudness that your nation was a winner of world war 1+2 makes not any evil deed better what had happened during this time and afterwards and what's happening now in the world.
You fucking krauts deserved to get your ass kicked.
 

By the way: What shows this picture? What is the bad deed you see on this picture? Who are this people and what had happended there? What do you think is important in this context? Your proudness that your nation was a winner of world war 1+2 makes not any evil deed better what had happened during this time and afterwards and what's happening now in the world.
You fucking krauts deserved to get your ass kicked.

The USA sold the East of Europe to the Stalinists. That's the negative side of the american pragmatism. For the grandparents of the artist Jamala as well the Germans and Russians and Americans too were a curse. I find it very interesting that Jamala wan the ESC with the song "1944". And I find it very interesting that a Nazi like you attacks me and deletes her message. You accept with your own structural Nazism that the USA wan a war against Germany but lost this war against the Nazis. I don't know what your parents and grandparents would say to you.

 
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