"If God exists, why doesn't He prove it?"

[Ringel05]

Because believing in God has been the social norm for 2000-ish years for no good reason, plus the negativity associated with religious fundamentalism, as well as the general pursuit of knowledge.

That's a rationalization based on stereotypes, not a necessity.

the last one is the only real reason; the rest are really excuses to question his existence

(don't tell the others I said that, it's an atheist secret!!!)

So how does the pursuit of knowledge exclusively exclude the possible existence of God? From the misuse of religion by groups and individuals I understand but science has also been misused is such a manner so the real question remains.... why is it a necessity for some? I'm sure I know the answer from a psychological and sociological aspect, but most people don't want to know, they consider themselves above common human failings and don't like hearing that they aren't. Yup the social sciences are my bailiwick.

 

[Dr Grump]

Considering your statement, which reveals a complete disbelief in any deity, I don't see how your faith in no deity can translate to a desire for faith in a deity. Honestly you have faith with limited circumstantial proof in no deity but require proof positive that a deity exists before you believe.
Pretty interesting.

I do have a complete disbelief. However, if somebody came up to me and said "I have tangible proof of a god", why wouldn't I be interested. Wouldn't anybody be interested? It would certainly pique my interest, and I would still be sceptical as hell until they showed me.

I guess I should have rephrased my initial response so this bears repeating:

Yet lacking any real proof you firmly believe there is no God...... not even slightly skeptical of your belief yet you want proof of the opposite. Again, that's interesting.

Why wouldn't I want proof. Those who believe are doing the spruiking, not I. If I said that I could run the 100 metres in 9 seconds, surely it is up to me to prove it, not up to you to prove I can't?

 

[Dr Grump]

As I'm trying to get Grump to see, non believers always demand a proof of God but demand no proof to support their belief system that there is no God.
Believers are under no onus to make non-believers believe, it's not in our hands, our onus is to be the best examples we can be.

How can we offer proof of something that doesn't exist? Now that would be a miracle...

 

[Dr Grump]

We are also to invite others to come to God and learn from Him for themselves. It's amazing how few people will actually follow that invitation but instead will claim there is no God and no one can know there is one despite without an ounce of effort to find out if that's true.

Oh, I tried. Nada...

 

[Ringel05]

As I'm trying to get Grump to see, non believers always demand a proof of God but demand no proof to support their belief system that there is no God.
Believers are under no onus to make non-believers believe, it's not in our hands, our onus is to be the best examples we can be.

How can we offer proof of something that doesn't exist? Now that would be a miracle...

I'm referring to the pure definition of faith, the belief in the unprovable. Currently the belief in and the belief there is no God is unprovable which, by definition, makes both a belief (faith) system.

 

[Dr Grump]

Honestly, I think it is a wrong approach. I know we are supposed to but I don't think you invite the whimsy spoiled brat to the common table to share the meal if she is resisting - you just ignore her.

Same here. Some boneheads need to be left alone so they can learn themselves.

Yeah, those boneheads.

Wanting evidence for those extraordinary claims. How ridiculous!

what makes you think you deserve any evidence be offered?

What makes you think we don't?

 

[Dr Grump]

As I'm trying to get Grump to see, non believers always demand a proof of God but demand no proof to support their belief system that there is no God.
Believers are under no onus to make non-believers believe, it's not in our hands, our onus is to be the best examples we can be.

How can we offer proof of something that doesn't exist? Now that would be a miracle...

I'm referring to the pure definition of faith, the belief in the unprovable. Currently the belief in and the belief there is no God is unprovable which, by definition, makes both a belief (faith) system.

I see where you're coming from and I agree to a point. However, then I think of Destroyer's points about unicorns and fairies.

Let's be totally honest here - Your statement pertaining to the belief or lack thereof of a god - makes sense. But when you swap out the word god with the words easter bunny, tooth fairy, unicorn, santa clause or the flying spaghetti monster - people laugh. Why does the other figment of the human imagination that sits nicely in the same box (a god) not get the same treatment?

 

[Ringel05]

How can we offer proof of something that doesn't exist? Now that would be a miracle...

I'm referring to the pure definition of faith, the belief in the unprovable. Currently the belief in and the belief there is no God is unprovable which, by definition, makes both a belief (faith) system.

I see where you're coming from and I agree to a point. However, then I think of Destroyer's points about unicorns and fairies.

Let's be totally honest here - Your statement pertaining to the belief or lack thereof of a god - makes sense. But when you swap out the word god with the words easter bunny, tooth fairy, unicorn, santa clause or the flying spaghetti monster - people laugh. Why does the other figment of the human imagination that sits nicely in the same box (a god) not get the same treatment?

Because people place differing degrees of importance to them, from both sides...... None of this changes the definition of faith. Personally I have no stake in making someone believe there is or is not a God, and Easter bunny, a Santa Clause, etc. My focus here is purely a social scientific one which is, why are some people compelled to prove or disprove one or the other. Actually it's more to have you and all the others (on both sides) to honestly question your motives and your rationalities.

 

[Destroyer2]

That's a rationalization based on stereotypes, not a necessity.

the last one is the only real reason; the rest are really excuses to question his existence

(don't tell the others I said that, it's an atheist secret!!!)

So how does the pursuit of knowledge exclusively exclude the possible existence of God? From the misuse of religion by groups and individuals I understand but science has also been misused is such a manner so the real question remains.... why is it a necessity for some? I'm sure I know the answer from a psychological and sociological aspect, but most people don't want to know, they consider themselves above common human failings and don't like hearing that they aren't. Yup the social sciences are my bailiwick.

A fair question. Let's look at it from both sides:

If there is a God, in a way, that's a great thing! If we can establish a contact with him, we could ask him about the intricacies of our world and universe and complete the database of human knowledge!

Of course, if he isn't real, there's the underlying problem that there isn't an omniscient being to tell us everything about the world and universe. Obviously this is suboptimal for knowledge gain.

However, the underlying issue is that there really is no evidence for this God. We have no way to contact him even if he does exist, and he hasn't left any evidence of his existence on his planet. Why, then, do we suppose he exists?

What happens here is that we can give non-answers to all of life's questions. How did the world come about? God did it. How did life come about? God did it. Why does the climate change? God did it. How were the sun, moon, and star created? God did it.

Without any reason to believe in this God, we have attributed to him many things, many of which we now know about (evolution, for example). Fundamentalism in particular is anti-intelligence and anti-science because it goes against the whole idea of attributing everything to an omnipotent being.

Of course, your argument seems to be "Who cares?" I answer, everyone interested in the pursuit of knowledge should care. Because whether there is a God or not would affect our view of reality entirely.

 

[Dr Grump]

Because people place differing degrees of importance to them, from both sides...... None of this changes the definition of faith. Personally I have no stake in making someone believe there is or is not a God, and Easter bunny, a Santa Clause, etc. My focus here is purely a social scientific one which is, why are some people compelled to prove or disprove one or the other. Actually it's more to have you and all the others (on both sides) to honestly question your motives and your rationalities.

There are many reasons. Pursuit of knowledge would be the main one. However, if a god did exist it would be interesting to see his or her take on some of the things people do in his or her name. What he or she thinks of it etc etc.
That is just the tip of the iceberg

 

[Ringel05]

Because people place differing degrees of importance to them, from both sides...... None of this changes the definition of faith. Personally I have no stake in making someone believe there is or is not a God, and Easter bunny, a Santa Clause, etc. My focus here is purely a social scientific one which is, why are some people compelled to prove or disprove one or the other. Actually it's more to have you and all the others (on both sides) to honestly question your motives and your rationalities.

There are many reasons. Pursuit of knowledge would be the main one. However, if a god did exist it would be interesting to see his or her take on some of the things people do in his or her name. What he or she thinks of it etc etc.
That is just the tip of the iceberg

Having been a student of theology and the Bible I can say he would be appalled...... Very few Christians actually follow the teachings of the Bible. At least your motivations appear to be more altruistic than most.

 

[Dr Grump]

There are many reasons. Pursuit of knowledge would be the main one. However, if a god did exist it would be interesting to see his or her take on some of the things people do in his or her name. What he or she thinks of it etc etc.
That is just the tip of the iceberg

Having been a student of theology and the Bible I can say he would be appalled...... Very few Christians actually follow the teachings of the Bible. At least your motivations appear to be more altruistic than most.

Oh, right so you've studied. That must have been interesting. Reading a couple of books at the moment one is called Misquoting Jesus and the other is Jesus Interrupted. Very interesting take on the gospels etc..Books also written by a guy who was in a seminary for the best part of 20 years. Now a non believer I think....he's a little ambiguous on that part..

 

[Ringel05]

There are many reasons. Pursuit of knowledge would be the main one. However, if a god did exist it would be interesting to see his or her take on some of the things people do in his or her name. What he or she thinks of it etc etc.
That is just the tip of the iceberg

Having been a student of theology and the Bible I can say he would be appalled...... Very few Christians actually follow the teachings of the Bible. At least your motivations appear to be more altruistic than most.

Oh, right so you've studied. That must have been interesting. Reading a couple of books at the moment one is called Misquoting Jesus and the other is Jesus Interrupted. Very interesting take on the gospels etc..Books also written by a guy who was in a seminary for the best part of 20 years. Now a non believer I think....he's a little ambiguous on that part..

That first, was that supposed to be a backhanded slap? I studied under biblical experts who were fluent in the ancient Hebrew and Greek, both necessary for truly understanding the bible since translating to English is difficult at best. I am by no means an expert but that doesn't mean I don't have a greater understanding than the typical Christian.

 

[Vox]

Yeah, those boneheads.

Wanting evidence for those extraordinary claims. How ridiculous!

what makes you think you deserve any evidence be offered?

What makes you think we don't?

my evaluation

 

[Dr Grump]

Having been a student of theology and the Bible I can say he would be appalled...... Very few Christians actually follow the teachings of the Bible. At least your motivations appear to be more altruistic than most.

Oh, right so you've studied. That must have been interesting. Reading a couple of books at the moment one is called Misquoting Jesus and the other is Jesus Interrupted. Very interesting take on the gospels etc..Books also written by a guy who was in a seminary for the best part of 20 years. Now a non believer I think....he's a little ambiguous on that part..

That first, was that supposed to be a backhanded slap? I studied under biblical experts who were fluent in the ancient Hebrew and Greek, both necessary for truly understanding the bible since translating to English is difficult at best. I am by no means an expert but that doesn't mean I don't have a greater understanding than the typical Christian.

Um, no. It was not a backhanded slap, thus me mentioning the books I am reading.

 

[Ringel05]

Oh, right so you've studied. That must have been interesting. Reading a couple of books at the moment one is called Misquoting Jesus and the other is Jesus Interrupted. Very interesting take on the gospels etc..Books also written by a guy who was in a seminary for the best part of 20 years. Now a non believer I think....he's a little ambiguous on that part..

That first, was that supposed to be a backhanded slap? I studied under biblical experts who were fluent in the ancient Hebrew and Greek, both necessary for truly understanding the bible since translating to English is difficult at best. I am by no means an expert but that doesn't mean I don't have a greater understanding than the typical Christian.

Um, no. It was not a backhanded slap, thus me mentioning the books I am reading.

Okay, just looked that way. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[GibsonSG]

"If God exists, why doesn't He prove it?"

He can't because he doesn't exist. Pretty simple deduction.

 

[Ringel05]

"If God exists, why doesn't He prove it?"

He can't because he doesn't exist. Pretty simple deduction.

Simple things for simple minds.

 

[GibsonSG]

"If God exists, why doesn't He prove it?"

He can't because he doesn't exist. Pretty simple deduction.

Simple things for simple minds.

Then why doesn't god prove his existence?

 

[daws101]

what makes you think you deserve any evidence be offered?

What makes you think we don't?

my evaluation

you mean your highly prejudicial and judgmental opinion..
an evaluation to be valid has to be impartial and objective..you fail on both counts.
thanks for playing!