If God is all powerful...

[Taz]

God could have given us free will without all the fucked up stuff. He chose not to. Why?

Wouldn't be free will then, would it? It'd be conditional freedom.

It would be free of bullshit, the ultimate freedom. So why wouldn't god give that to us?

The only ultimate freedom is death; otherwise known as freedom mainlined. The undiscovered country. And death is freedom from responsibility. Perhaps what you seek is a return to emergence from the womb. Even then comes the yolk of personal responsibility to cry when hungry or starve is the consequence. You already possess the maximum free will. Do what you like, when you like, how you like. Just don't blame God for the consequences. Perhaps we are consequences of God's act of creation and he just wants to correct things for the record.

So in your religion, you're only good when you die. Accept your lot in life because you'll be rewarded when you die. A perfect con man's game.

No. In my religion, a relationship with the Trinity is about life in this world.

The best you can hope for is to suffer without complaint in this world.

So what happens when you die?

 

[Taz]

God is demanding that we follow a book or burn forever.

Since your OP simply attacks the concept of God which book would that be?

*****SMILE*****

Any religious book.

Not all religious texts consider hell to be a burning pit and in my case I don't have any specific religious text that I follow.

Seems to me that you're making general statements about God that don't hold true.

*****CHUCKLE*****

Seems to everyone else that you're trying to scapegoat your god because it makes deformed babies and cancer.

Seems to me you are trying to assert that unless everything is perfect there can be no God.

No, I’m asking why god makes deformed babies.

 

[Taz]

But what god will do if it is real shouldn't depend on whether I believe or not. And even if i don't believe in gravity, it still has an effect on me. Your god doesn't have any effect on me if I don't believe?

Ironically, I pretty much agree with everything you are saying. It's always interesting to me that two people can look at the exact same things, say the same things, and then come to opposite conclusions.

You are correct. What you believe, ultimately will have no effect on the outcome.

A criminal may not believe in justice, may not believe in law enforcement, and may not believe in judgement. But when they drag him off to prison, whether he believes in such things will not matter.

Just like whether you believe in gravity or not, will not matter when you step off the edge of a cliff, and fall.

Whether you believe in life after death, will not matter after you die. If it is real, then you will face it, whether you believe it or not.

Whether you believe in being judged for how you lived your life in that after-life, will not matter once once you die. If it is true that your actions in life will be judged on their merit, you will face that whether you believe in it, or not.

What matters, is not whether you believe.

If you are hooked on Heroin, you can believe that Heroin will ruin your health, or not believe that Heroin will ruin your health. It does not matter. Heroin will ruin your health.

And it's not because you refused to believe the doctors, that the doctor caused the drugs to destroy you.

Just because you don't realize the drugs are killing you, doesn't mean it's the doctors fault, and everything was fine until the doctor warned you that heroin ruins your health.

G-d is warning everyone that your sins are killing you. G-d offers a gift of forgiveness, to those who accept and repent of their evil ways, and will save your very soul for eternity.

But just 'believing' in G-d has no effect. The Devil and his Demons, all 'believe' G-d exists... still going to their eternal punishment for their evil.

"G-d is warning everyone that your sins are killing you. G-d offers a gift of forgiveness, to those who accept and repent of their evil ways, and will save your very soul for eternity." Jesus died on the cross for my sins, that bill is already paid.

"But just 'believing' in G-d has no effect. The Devil and his Demons, all 'believe' G-d exists... still going to their eternal punishment for their evil."

This statement is nonsense, well, unless you can prove it.

James 2:19
"You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder."

So all you have is a quote from a book of fairy tales? Anything from an actual god?

You mean besides everything he has created; space and time, physical laws, biological laws and moral laws.

There is more than enough physical evidence to logically prove the existence of God.

Then why can’t you?

 

[Taz]

But if god is all powerful, couldn't it defeat satan?

If mental masturbation were useful, then wouldn't this thread have some value?

So you have nothing. Got it.

 

[ding]

No, that's not how this works.

You are going to burn for your own sins, yourself.

That's on you. Like a wife that chooses to cheat, chooses to destroy her marriage, like a man who chooses to not go to work chooses to be poor and impoverished...... you are sinful and evil, and will pay for your choices yourself.

That's 100%, on you. No one else. Not G-d, not your mother, not society.... just you.

G-d, and his book, are offering you forgiveness for your evil actions. If you accept that, and admit your evil and cruelty, he will forgive you, and offer you freedom from your evil, and salvation in Heaven after this life.

You are making the choice. Just you. You can choose to have G-d in your life, and reap the rewards.... or you choose to not have G-d in your life.... and... whatever you get is whatever you get.

Let me put it another way..... do you think a judges who puts a serial rapist and murderer in prison for life, is a tyrant? Or did the serial rapist and murderer, make their own choice in what happened to them, by choosing to engage in rape and murder?

You..... YOU... are the one making the choice. G-d will not force anything on you. You make the choice about what your eternity looks like.

Actually, there's more proof for re-incarnation than there is for a heaven or hell.

And you can choose to believe that if you wish. But don't say G-d is demanding anything, when you are making all your own choices as to what you believe.

But what god will do if it is real shouldn't depend on whether I believe or not. And even if i don't believe in gravity, it still has an effect on me. Your god doesn't have any effect on me if I don't believe?

What you do however, will.

Haven't you heard? Faith can move mountains.

Which mountain?

The one you can’t move because you lack faith.

 

[ding]

MLK responds...

We are never to think of God's power in terms of what he could conceivably do by the exercise of what we may call sheer omnipotence which crushes all obtacles in its path. We are always to think of God's power in terms of his purpose. If what he did by sheer omnipotence defeated his purpose, then, however startling and impressive, it would be an expression of weakness, not of power. Indeed, a good definition of power is "ability to achieve purpose. This applies to the power of a gun, or a drug, or an argument, or even a sermon! Does it achieve its end? Does it fulfill its purpose?

We must realize that God's power is not put forward to get certain things done, but to get them done in a certain way, and with certain results in the lives of those who do them. We can see this clearly in human illustrations. My purpose in doing a crossword puzzle is not to fill in certain words. I could fill them in easily by waiting for tomorrow morning's paper. Filling them in without the answers is harder but much more satisfying, for it calls out resourcefulness, ingenuity, and discipline which by the easier way would find no self expression.
Similarly, to borrow an illustration from William James, eleven men battle desperately on a field, risking falling and injury, using up a prodigious amount of energy, and when we ask why, we learn that it is to get an inflated, leather covered sphere called a football across a goal. But if that is all, why doesn't someone get up in the night and put it there? Football games are not played to get a ball across a goal, but to get it there under certain conditions, in a certain way, with certain results in the lives of those concerned. Power to get the ball across the goal is to be interpreted in terms of purposes and only makes sense in the light of those purposes. Action, then, which defeats purpose is weakness. Power is the ability to fulfill purpose. No one knows what it cost God to refrain from intervention when wicked men put his beloved Son to death. But the restraint was not weakness. The Cross became the power of God unto salvation.

MLK was a blow hard who beat up white women for kicks.

Maybe, maybe not. You don't have perfect knowledge of that either. But either way, it doesn't change the answer.

You lack perfect knowledge why God would create the world he did, so you attempt to fit God into your limited and flawed way of seeing things.

westwall nailed you.

westwall nails taz...

westwall is such an imbecile I don't even read what he posts, he's always off point, even more than you. You'd have to sum up his point for me to respond, and I'll show you that he missed the whole point of the OP.

There is no point of the OP other than to subordinate religion and belief in God.

It's what you do. It's what militant atheists do.

Apparently you missed the point as well.

You misspelled nailed.

 

[ding]

Ironically, I pretty much agree with everything you are saying. It's always interesting to me that two people can look at the exact same things, say the same things, and then come to opposite conclusions.

You are correct. What you believe, ultimately will have no effect on the outcome.

A criminal may not believe in justice, may not believe in law enforcement, and may not believe in judgement. But when they drag him off to prison, whether he believes in such things will not matter.

Just like whether you believe in gravity or not, will not matter when you step off the edge of a cliff, and fall.

Whether you believe in life after death, will not matter after you die. If it is real, then you will face it, whether you believe it or not.

Whether you believe in being judged for how you lived your life in that after-life, will not matter once once you die. If it is true that your actions in life will be judged on their merit, you will face that whether you believe in it, or not.

What matters, is not whether you believe.

If you are hooked on Heroin, you can believe that Heroin will ruin your health, or not believe that Heroin will ruin your health. It does not matter. Heroin will ruin your health.

And it's not because you refused to believe the doctors, that the doctor caused the drugs to destroy you.

Just because you don't realize the drugs are killing you, doesn't mean it's the doctors fault, and everything was fine until the doctor warned you that heroin ruins your health.

G-d is warning everyone that your sins are killing you. G-d offers a gift of forgiveness, to those who accept and repent of their evil ways, and will save your very soul for eternity.

But just 'believing' in G-d has no effect. The Devil and his Demons, all 'believe' G-d exists... still going to their eternal punishment for their evil.

"G-d is warning everyone that your sins are killing you. G-d offers a gift of forgiveness, to those who accept and repent of their evil ways, and will save your very soul for eternity." Jesus died on the cross for my sins, that bill is already paid.

"But just 'believing' in G-d has no effect. The Devil and his Demons, all 'believe' G-d exists... still going to their eternal punishment for their evil."

This statement is nonsense, well, unless you can prove it.

James 2:19
"You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder."

So all you have is a quote from a book of fairy tales? Anything from an actual god?

You mean besides everything he has created; space and time, physical laws, biological laws and moral laws.

There is more than enough physical evidence to logically prove the existence of God.

Then why can’t you?

i have many times.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

Since your OP simply attacks the concept of God which book would that be?

*****SMILE*****

Any religious book.

Not all religious texts consider hell to be a burning pit and in my case I don't have any specific religious text that I follow.

Seems to me that you're making general statements about God that don't hold true.

*****CHUCKLE*****

Seems to everyone else that you're trying to scapegoat your god because it makes deformed babies and cancer.

Seems to me you are trying to assert that unless everything is perfect there can be no God.

No, I’m asking why god makes deformed babies.

Who are you to judge what's normal and what's deformed?

*****SMILE*****

 

[Damaged Eagle]

Provide scientific empirical proof they are fairy tales?

Science doesn't have a way of proving fairy tales. I'd ask you to prove how a woman was made from a man's rib.

You are making my point. The previous poster was making a claim, that he suggested (or implied) was provable using science.

That is not possible. We're talking about a G-d, that as Christians believe, exists outside the realm of this Universe, because he created this Universe and the laws that govern it.

So when you try and tell me such and such is impossible.... yeah, for a human or anything bound to the laws of this Universe. G-d by definition, is not bound by the laws of this Universe.

So you can't 'disprove' G-d, or any miracles he may have done, using science, the laws of which he is not bound to.

God can’t be proven by science or by humans in any way, meaning your god is made up, just like Santa Claus.

Thus proving your statement that you are agnostic was always a lie.

God can't be proven by science, when they can prove it come back, THEN I won't be agnostic anymore.

Science proves my God's existence every day.

*****CHUCKLE*****

 

[Taz]

Actually, there's more proof for re-incarnation than there is for a heaven or hell.

And you can choose to believe that if you wish. But don't say G-d is demanding anything, when you are making all your own choices as to what you believe.

But what god will do if it is real shouldn't depend on whether I believe or not. And even if i don't believe in gravity, it still has an effect on me. Your god doesn't have any effect on me if I don't believe?

What you do however, will.

Haven't you heard? Faith can move mountains.

Which mountain?

The one you can’t move because you lack faith.

So not a real mountain. Got it.

 

[Taz]

"G-d is warning everyone that your sins are killing you. G-d offers a gift of forgiveness, to those who accept and repent of their evil ways, and will save your very soul for eternity." Jesus died on the cross for my sins, that bill is already paid.

"But just 'believing' in G-d has no effect. The Devil and his Demons, all 'believe' G-d exists... still going to their eternal punishment for their evil."

This statement is nonsense, well, unless you can prove it.

James 2:19
"You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder."

So all you have is a quote from a book of fairy tales? Anything from an actual god?

You mean besides everything he has created; space and time, physical laws, biological laws and moral laws.

There is more than enough physical evidence to logically prove the existence of God.

Then why can’t you?

i have many times.

Only to yourself.

 

[Taz]

Any religious book.

Not all religious texts consider hell to be a burning pit and in my case I don't have any specific religious text that I follow.

Seems to me that you're making general statements about God that don't hold true.

*****CHUCKLE*****

Seems to everyone else that you're trying to scapegoat your god because it makes deformed babies and cancer.

Seems to me you are trying to assert that unless everything is perfect there can be no God.

No, I’m asking why god makes deformed babies.

Who are you to judge what's normal and what's deformed?

*****SMILE*****

There are kids born with cancer and in pain until they die. Why did god make them?

 

[Taz]

Science doesn't have a way of proving fairy tales. I'd ask you to prove how a woman was made from a man's rib.

You are making my point. The previous poster was making a claim, that he suggested (or implied) was provable using science.

That is not possible. We're talking about a G-d, that as Christians believe, exists outside the realm of this Universe, because he created this Universe and the laws that govern it.

So when you try and tell me such and such is impossible.... yeah, for a human or anything bound to the laws of this Universe. G-d by definition, is not bound by the laws of this Universe.

So you can't 'disprove' G-d, or any miracles he may have done, using science, the laws of which he is not bound to.

God can’t be proven by science or by humans in any way, meaning your god is made up, just like Santa Claus.

Thus proving your statement that you are agnostic was always a lie.

God can't be proven by science, when they can prove it come back, THEN I won't be agnostic anymore.

Science proves my God's existence every day.

*****CHUCKLE*****

You have nothing, got it.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

Not all religious texts consider hell to be a burning pit and in my case I don't have any specific religious text that I follow.

Seems to me that you're making general statements about God that don't hold true.

*****CHUCKLE*****

Seems to everyone else that you're trying to scapegoat your god because it makes deformed babies and cancer.

Seems to me you are trying to assert that unless everything is perfect there can be no God.

No, I’m asking why god makes deformed babies.

Who are you to judge what's normal and what's deformed?

*****SMILE*****

There are kids born with cancer and in pain until they die. Why did god make them?

Why wouldn't God make them?

*****SMILE*****

 

[koshergrl]

Naturally you think "religion is the opiate of the masses."

Hmm,no, not accurate. Also, that is not an accurate Karl marx quote.

Believing scientific theories is not a faith based belief, nor are they taken with 100% certainty. This process is precisely the opposite of faith. It is a determination based on evidence. So this process is completely different from your faith on both counts.

Nonsense.
Science (real science..not the garbage that the left spreads) absolutely 100 percent supports the existence of God and confirms the infallibility of the bible.

Every time that retards like you come up with some sort of *science* that you think disproves the bible or the existence of God, it turns out to be bad science or outright lies..or just your own stupidity. You misinterpret the bible, you lie about it, and then when you're proven wrong, you bounce to the next lie, never acknowledging your lies.

Every. Single. Time.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

You are making my point. The previous poster was making a claim, that he suggested (or implied) was provable using science.

That is not possible. We're talking about a G-d, that as Christians believe, exists outside the realm of this Universe, because he created this Universe and the laws that govern it.

So when you try and tell me such and such is impossible.... yeah, for a human or anything bound to the laws of this Universe. G-d by definition, is not bound by the laws of this Universe.

So you can't 'disprove' G-d, or any miracles he may have done, using science, the laws of which he is not bound to.

God can’t be proven by science or by humans in any way, meaning your god is made up, just like Santa Claus.

Thus proving your statement that you are agnostic was always a lie.

God can't be proven by science, when they can prove it come back, THEN I won't be agnostic anymore.

Science proves my God's existence every day.

*****CHUCKLE*****

You have nothing, got it.

You have it reversed.

You have nothing and I have all the proof of God's existence.

*****CHUCKLE*****

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Science (real science..not the garbage that the left spreads) absolutely 100 percent supports the existence of God.

No it doesn't, and what an absurd thing to say.

 

[Taz]

God can’t be proven by science or by humans in any way, meaning your god is made up, just like Santa Claus.

Thus proving your statement that you are agnostic was always a lie.

God can't be proven by science, when they can prove it come back, THEN I won't be agnostic anymore.

Science proves my God's existence every day.

*****CHUCKLE*****

You have nothing, got it.

You have it reversed.

You have nothing and I have all the proof of God's existence.

*****CHUCKLE*****

So you can prove the god of the bible?

 

[Taz]

Seems to everyone else that you're trying to scapegoat your god because it makes deformed babies and cancer.

Seems to me you are trying to assert that unless everything is perfect there can be no God.

No, I’m asking why god makes deformed babies.

Who are you to judge what's normal and what's deformed?

*****SMILE*****

There are kids born with cancer and in pain until they die. Why did god make them?

Why wouldn't God make them?

*****SMILE*****

That’s a stupid answer. If your god makes those people on purpose, he’s a fucking douchebag.

 

[task0778]

1. Christianity is not the only religion out there, and the bible is not the only holy book ever written. Maybe both are valid and true, maybe not, but there are thousands of other faiths and creeds to choose from that may fit your ideas for what God and Religion should be.

2. Do not crap on someone else's beliefs, that is in very bad taste. Who are you to piss in someone else's cornflakes, if you think they are misguided or just plain stupid then that's fine but there's no value to yourself or to them to insult them about it. In all honesty it makes you look like an asshole, which in fact you are if your doing that sort of thing.

3. One thing though, about religion. There's a sense of community with those who share the same beliefs you do, and in today's fractured and divided world that is a good thing. So life and let live people.