If God is all powerful, ...

[ding]

Our perfect knowledge and wisdom? Always choose that which is virtuous of our own free will?

Which universe do you live in?

I am not saying that this is the universe we live in. I am saying that if God made us with the attributes of perfection, then it would be part of our character to always choose that which is virtuous. So why didn't he create us with the attributes of perfection?

You have that now. It's totally up to you to choose to be perfect.

We have the opportunity to become perfect but we were not created with the attributes of perfection. Had we been created with the attributes of perfection, we would not have to live in a fallen state and suffer all manner of pain and suffer or even death. So the question is not, "Why didn't God create us with the opportunity to become perfect?", but is, "Why did God not create us with the attributes of perfection from the beginning to avoid all the pain, suffering, and death?".

Sure you were. If you have the opportunity to be perfect (whatever you think that means) then you are equipped to be perfect. Is there something other than you that is preventing you from it now? Or are you arguing you have no choice in the matter? That you aren't in control of yourself? That something or someone else is forcing you to be imperfect?

.

Sure you were. If you have the opportunity to be perfect (whatever you think that means) then you are equipped to be perfect. Is there something other than you that is preventing you from it now? Or are you arguing you have no choice in the matter? That you aren't in control of yourself? That something or someone else is forcing you to be imperfect?

so says the converted christian that abandoned the religion of antiquity for the belief in a false messiah to solve his problems for him.

First of all I don’t know what being a converted Christian has to do with anything. Secondly, I’m a cradle Catholic. Once baptized always baptized. If you like I could baptize you.

Lastly, if you thought being converted was a slur, let me correct your perception. Without exception every single RCIA I have ever met has been supremely impressive. Without exception. So fuck off. Because I’m a sinner.

 

[ding]

Our perfect knowledge and wisdom? Always choose that which is virtuous of our own free will?

Which universe do you live in?

I am not saying that this is the universe we live in. I am saying that if God made us with the attributes of perfection, then it would be part of our character to always choose that which is virtuous. So why didn't he create us with the attributes of perfection?

You have that now. It's totally up to you to choose to be perfect.

We have the opportunity to become perfect but we were not created with the attributes of perfection. Had we been created with the attributes of perfection, we would not have to live in a fallen state and suffer all manner of pain and suffer or even death. So the question is not, "Why didn't God create us with the opportunity to become perfect?", but is, "Why did God not create us with the attributes of perfection from the beginning to avoid all the pain, suffering, and death?".

Sure you were. If you have the opportunity to be perfect (whatever you think that means) then you are equipped to be perfect. Is there something other than you that is preventing you from it now? Or are you arguing you have no choice in the matter? That you aren't in control of yourself? That something or someone else is forcing you to be imperfect?

.

Sure you were. If you have the opportunity to be perfect (whatever you think that means) then you are equipped to be perfect. Is there something other than you that is preventing you from it now? Or are you arguing you have no choice in the matter? That you aren't in control of yourself? That something or someone else is forcing you to be imperfect?

so says the converted christian that abandoned the religion of antiquity for the belief in a false messiah to solve his problems for him.

Yes, everything I said I do say. I thought I explained it very well. Which is why you don’t have any specific complaint other than calling Jesus Christ a false messiah and erroneously believing that I believe Christ does all of the work for me.

First of all, No one can deny that Jesus existed. No one can deny the miracles he performed. No one can deny he suffered and defeated death.

Secondly I have to move towards God. But then he comes rushing at me. So yeah, he does a lot but I have to do my part too.

Is it my turn to talk about you now?

 

[RodISHI]

The great war in heaven proves that even as spirits, before they were cast to this earth were not perfect. A perfect being would never have rebelled against God but would have had a perfect knowledge that his way was the right way. Why didn't God give these spirits perfection so there would be no war in heaven and a rebellion. Whether it be spirits or the souls of mankind, they lacked perfection. Why didn't God simply create them to be perfect?

Actually it merely shows that Man goes through a process. Perfection is completed in a process of time. Perhaps you can find a clay master to go work with briefly to watch the process of creating a masterpiece. Does the clay like being pulverized, pounded, and fired?

God did create Man to be perfect in its time. Human on the other hand is a piece, a portion of the process and during that process you get to make certain choices.

It is obvious that if God exists, then He has chosen a process of time. However, this raises questions as to why He would use a process of time that includes pain, suffering and death if He already had the power to create us perfect from the beginning. If God is an all loving and caring being, then why would he not forego all the pain, suffering and death and simply create us perfect from the start? If He is all powerful, all knowing, and an all loving and caring being, surely it is more humane to avoid the pain suffering and death. So the question remains, Why didn't he just create us perfect from the beginning and avoid the inhumane part of the process?

Who determines what is "humane" for humans?[\Quote]

God does. But you would think that if He is all powerful, all knowing, and an all loving God, then he would avoid the pain, suffering, and death if he could accomplish his ends without them.

"Likeness" doesn't mean a Man was created to take God's place. Nor does it mean that choices would not be allowed or mere drones were created that would all be the exact replica. Man was created in the "likeness" and was also given the ability to make choices of Its own when given the "seed" to multiply and be fruitful for the Spirit of God (absolute pure love) would have a place to dwell.

But God would give mankind his free agency In this scenario. The difference is that he would be all powerful, all knowing, and all loving as well. With the attribute of being all knowing, he would know and understand that going against the commandments of God would be wrong and would never choose that path. In this way he would avoid the pain, suffering, and death of a fall. His attributes that he is created with would guide him to avoid evil and choose, through his free will, the right choices.

`You still are not getting it. As a carnal being you are but a beast of the field that fades away just as grass. You must be born again and you must also renew your mind.

 

[RodISHI]

Why did God not create us with the attributes of perfection from the beginning to avoid all the pain, suffering, and death?

My belief is that God created the material world such that beings that know and create would arise so that he could experience the material world through us.

Are you saying that you would want to live in a world without downs and only ups? What fun would that be? It is the agony of defeat which gives victory its thrill.

I don't think that perfection eliminates all the ups and downs. Certainly it pains God to see his children fall and choose evil over good.

There is a lot of confusion between the perfect and/or complete. That child born of God is complete. Therefore perfect even though the carnal flesh is not by any means.

 

[BreezeWood]

I am not saying that this is the universe we live in. I am saying that if God made us with the attributes of perfection, then it would be part of our character to always choose that which is virtuous. So why didn't he create us with the attributes of perfection?

You have that now. It's totally up to you to choose to be perfect.

We have the opportunity to become perfect but we were not created with the attributes of perfection. Had we been created with the attributes of perfection, we would not have to live in a fallen state and suffer all manner of pain and suffer or even death. So the question is not, "Why didn't God create us with the opportunity to become perfect?", but is, "Why did God not create us with the attributes of perfection from the beginning to avoid all the pain, suffering, and death?".

Sure you were. If you have the opportunity to be perfect (whatever you think that means) then you are equipped to be perfect. Is there something other than you that is preventing you from it now? Or are you arguing you have no choice in the matter? That you aren't in control of yourself? That something or someone else is forcing you to be imperfect?

.

Sure you were. If you have the opportunity to be perfect (whatever you think that means) then you are equipped to be perfect. Is there something other than you that is preventing you from it now? Or are you arguing you have no choice in the matter? That you aren't in control of yourself? That something or someone else is forcing you to be imperfect?

so says the converted christian that abandoned the religion of antiquity for the belief in a false messiah to solve his problems for him.

First of all I don’t know what being a converted Christian has to do with anything. Secondly, I’m a cradle Catholic. Once baptized always baptized. If you like I could baptize you.

Lastly, if you thought being converted was a slur, let me correct your perception. Without exception every single RCIA I have ever met has been supremely impressive. Without exception. So fuck off. Because I’m a sinner.

.

First of all I don’t know what being a converted Christian has to do with anything. Secondly, I’m a cradle Catholic. Once baptized always baptized. If you like I could baptize you.

you have stated you converted to christianity later in your life by reading the bible, which is it sinner. that an adult would read the 4th century book and be swayed by it is a true feat of propaganda over religious judgement as shown throughout the history of persecution and victimization that religion is responsible for. you have simply joined your world view to a false religion.

Lastly, if you thought being converted was a slur, let me correct your perception. Without exception every single RCIA I have ever met has been supremely impressive. Without exception. So fuck off. Because I’m a sinner.

The Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults (RCIA), or Ordo Initiationis Christianae Adultorum (OICA) is a process developed by the Catholic Church for prospective converts to Catholicism who are above the age of infant baptism.

how could anyone become a christian that does so by infant baptism . ... you are a sad case in point after renouncing the religion rejoining but maintaining your baptism. sinner.

 

[ding]

You have that now. It's totally up to you to choose to be perfect.

We have the opportunity to become perfect but we were not created with the attributes of perfection. Had we been created with the attributes of perfection, we would not have to live in a fallen state and suffer all manner of pain and suffer or even death. So the question is not, "Why didn't God create us with the opportunity to become perfect?", but is, "Why did God not create us with the attributes of perfection from the beginning to avoid all the pain, suffering, and death?".

Sure you were. If you have the opportunity to be perfect (whatever you think that means) then you are equipped to be perfect. Is there something other than you that is preventing you from it now? Or are you arguing you have no choice in the matter? That you aren't in control of yourself? That something or someone else is forcing you to be imperfect?

.

Sure you were. If you have the opportunity to be perfect (whatever you think that means) then you are equipped to be perfect. Is there something other than you that is preventing you from it now? Or are you arguing you have no choice in the matter? That you aren't in control of yourself? That something or someone else is forcing you to be imperfect?

so says the converted christian that abandoned the religion of antiquity for the belief in a false messiah to solve his problems for him.

First of all I don’t know what being a converted Christian has to do with anything. Secondly, I’m a cradle Catholic. Once baptized always baptized. If you like I could baptize you.

Lastly, if you thought being converted was a slur, let me correct your perception. Without exception every single RCIA I have ever met has been supremely impressive. Without exception. So fuck off. Because I’m a sinner.

.

First of all I don’t know what being a converted Christian has to do with anything. Secondly, I’m a cradle Catholic. Once baptized always baptized. If you like I could baptize you.

you have stated you converted to christianity later in your life by reading the bible, which is it sinner. that an adult would read the 4th century book and be swayed by it is a true feat of propaganda over religious judgement as shown throughout the history of persecution and victimization that religion is responsible for. you have simply joined your world view to a false religion.

Lastly, if you thought being converted was a slur, let me correct your perception. Without exception every single RCIA I have ever met has been supremely impressive. Without exception. So fuck off. Because I’m a sinner.

The Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults (RCIA), or Ordo Initiationis Christianae Adultorum (OICA) is a process developed by the Catholic Church for prospective converts to Catholicism who are above the age of infant baptism.

how could anyone become a christian that does so by infant baptism . ... you are a sad case in point after renouncing the religion rejoining but maintaining your baptism. sinner.

You misread what I wrote. I am a cradle Catholic. I left and came back. I never said I was a good Catholic.

I couldn’t be happier for you to see me anyway that makes you happy.

 

[BreezeWood]

We have the opportunity to become perfect but we were not created with the attributes of perfection. Had we been created with the attributes of perfection, we would not have to live in a fallen state and suffer all manner of pain and suffer or even death. So the question is not, "Why didn't God create us with the opportunity to become perfect?", but is, "Why did God not create us with the attributes of perfection from the beginning to avoid all the pain, suffering, and death?".

Sure you were. If you have the opportunity to be perfect (whatever you think that means) then you are equipped to be perfect. Is there something other than you that is preventing you from it now? Or are you arguing you have no choice in the matter? That you aren't in control of yourself? That something or someone else is forcing you to be imperfect?

.

Sure you were. If you have the opportunity to be perfect (whatever you think that means) then you are equipped to be perfect. Is there something other than you that is preventing you from it now? Or are you arguing you have no choice in the matter? That you aren't in control of yourself? That something or someone else is forcing you to be imperfect?

so says the converted christian that abandoned the religion of antiquity for the belief in a false messiah to solve his problems for him.

First of all I don’t know what being a converted Christian has to do with anything. Secondly, I’m a cradle Catholic. Once baptized always baptized. If you like I could baptize you.

Lastly, if you thought being converted was a slur, let me correct your perception. Without exception every single RCIA I have ever met has been supremely impressive. Without exception. So fuck off. Because I’m a sinner.

.

First of all I don’t know what being a converted Christian has to do with anything. Secondly, I’m a cradle Catholic. Once baptized always baptized. If you like I could baptize you.

you have stated you converted to christianity later in your life by reading the bible, which is it sinner. that an adult would read the 4th century book and be swayed by it is a true feat of propaganda over religious judgement as shown throughout the history of persecution and victimization that religion is responsible for. you have simply joined your world view to a false religion.

Lastly, if you thought being converted was a slur, let me correct your perception. Without exception every single RCIA I have ever met has been supremely impressive. Without exception. So fuck off. Because I’m a sinner.

The Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults (RCIA), or Ordo Initiationis Christianae Adultorum (OICA) is a process developed by the Catholic Church for prospective converts to Catholicism who are above the age of infant baptism.

how could anyone become a christian that does so by infant baptism . ... you are a sad case in point after renouncing the religion rejoining but maintaining your baptism. sinner.

You misread what I wrote. I am a cradle Catholic. I left and came back. I never said I was a good Catholic.

I couldn’t be happier for you to see me anyway that makes you happy.

.

You misread what I wrote. I am a cradle Catholic. I left and came back. I never said I was a good Catholic.

I couldn’t be happier for you to see me anyway that makes you happy.

how could anyone become a christian that does so by infant baptism .

you neglected the part on how an infant becomes a christian by baptism, did they sign the document.

you seem happier irregardless anything outside your own world view that more than baptism makes you a good christian.

 

[ding]

Sure you were. If you have the opportunity to be perfect (whatever you think that means) then you are equipped to be perfect. Is there something other than you that is preventing you from it now? Or are you arguing you have no choice in the matter? That you aren't in control of yourself? That something or someone else is forcing you to be imperfect?

.

Sure you were. If you have the opportunity to be perfect (whatever you think that means) then you are equipped to be perfect. Is there something other than you that is preventing you from it now? Or are you arguing you have no choice in the matter? That you aren't in control of yourself? That something or someone else is forcing you to be imperfect?

so says the converted christian that abandoned the religion of antiquity for the belief in a false messiah to solve his problems for him.

First of all I don’t know what being a converted Christian has to do with anything. Secondly, I’m a cradle Catholic. Once baptized always baptized. If you like I could baptize you.

Lastly, if you thought being converted was a slur, let me correct your perception. Without exception every single RCIA I have ever met has been supremely impressive. Without exception. So fuck off. Because I’m a sinner.

.

First of all I don’t know what being a converted Christian has to do with anything. Secondly, I’m a cradle Catholic. Once baptized always baptized. If you like I could baptize you.

you have stated you converted to christianity later in your life by reading the bible, which is it sinner. that an adult would read the 4th century book and be swayed by it is a true feat of propaganda over religious judgement as shown throughout the history of persecution and victimization that religion is responsible for. you have simply joined your world view to a false religion.

Lastly, if you thought being converted was a slur, let me correct your perception. Without exception every single RCIA I have ever met has been supremely impressive. Without exception. So fuck off. Because I’m a sinner.

The Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults (RCIA), or Ordo Initiationis Christianae Adultorum (OICA) is a process developed by the Catholic Church for prospective converts to Catholicism who are above the age of infant baptism.

how could anyone become a christian that does so by infant baptism . ... you are a sad case in point after renouncing the religion rejoining but maintaining your baptism. sinner.

You misread what I wrote. I am a cradle Catholic. I left and came back. I never said I was a good Catholic.

I couldn’t be happier for you to see me anyway that makes you happy.

.

You misread what I wrote. I am a cradle Catholic. I left and came back. I never said I was a good Catholic.

I couldn’t be happier for you to see me anyway that makes you happy.

how could anyone become a christian that does so by infant baptism .

you neglected the part on how an infant becomes a christian by baptism, did they sign the document.

you seem happier irregardless anything outside your own world view that more than baptism makes you a good christian.

That’s what confirmation is for.

 

[Andylusion]

If God is all powerful, all knowing, and an all loving God, then why didn't he create us to be perfect?

If God is all powerful and can do all things, surely he would be able to create a perfect being who has all power, all knowledge, and is a perfectly loving being. To say that he cannot create such a being is to admit that God is not all powerful.

If God is all knowing surely he has the knowledge to create a perfect being and to give that perfect being a perfect knowledge.

If God is an all loving being who loves his creations then he would surely want the best for his creations. He would want his creations to be perfect. Thus he would create us to be perfect. Even in a world or universe where free will exists, if God created us to be perfect, then we with our perfect knowledge could surely reason out that we should choose good over evil always and never make a bad decision. We would be created with a heart filled with love for our fellow beings and our own creations. God would spare us the evil we experience in this world as we would have started out from creation as perfect beings never to commit any act that is contrary to what is right and good.

So why didn't God simply create us to be perfect?

The answer to your question is:

The ability to choose is not a flaw.

Human beings choose to be imperfect.

So then you ask, why did G-d create humans with the ability to choose to be imperfect?

The answer is "Love".

Let me explain that:

When I was in computer programming, it was fun because you can make a computer do anything you want.
I could make a program that can tell you that it loves you, says it cares about you, says and acts any way you want. But is that real?

http://www.classywish.com/best-virtual-girlfriend-apps/

They have girlfriends that can wake you up, blow you kisses on your way to work, send you "I love you" messages throughout the day. But is that real?

Of course not. It's doing what it is programmed to do. It's nothing more than that.

G-d could have made robots without choices. But that would not have been real love.

The difference between a fake love, and a real love, is always choice. You can beat a woman until she has sex with you, and kisses you, because she knows to refuse would mean being beaten.

That's not love is it. Love is when you have the option to walk away, and choose to love.

But of course there is a problem with that. The problem of course is that if you have the ability to choose, you can choose to hate, and to do evil.

G-d didn't want robots. He wanted love. That is why he gave humans the ability to choose to not love. And humans have been making that choice ever since.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Human beings choose to be imperfect.

That doesn't align with original sin.

 

[ding]

Human beings choose to be imperfect.

That doesn't align with original sin.

How so?

 

[onefour1]

I am actually a christian and believe in God. I wanted to present this question to see how the Christians on this board would answer it. I find it interesting that nobody questioned the power of God. Can God do anything imaginable? Can He always have existed and also never existed? Do you see any limits to God's power or do you believe that no matter what we imagine, God can do it? If God has limits, what are they?

 

[presonorek]

I am actually a christian and believe in God. I wanted to present this question to see how the Christians on this board would answer it. I find it interesting that nobody questioned the power of God. Can God do anything imaginable? Can He always have existed and also never existed? Do you see any limits to God's power or do you believe that no matter what we imagine, God can do it? If God has limits, what are they?

He cannot build a mountain so big that He cannot jump over it. It is impossible for even God.

 

[ding]

I am actually a christian and believe in God. I wanted to present this question to see how the Christians on this board would answer it. I find it interesting that nobody questioned the power of God. Can God do anything imaginable? Can He always have existed and also never existed? Do you see any limits to God's power or do you believe that no matter what we imagine, God can do it? If God has limits, what are they?

He cannot build a mountain so big that He cannot jump over it. It is impossible for even God.

That’s not a limit of his power.

What kind of silly things were you taught?

 

[onefour1]

So if God has limits to his power, what are the extent of those limits?

 

[onefour1]

I am actually a christian and believe in God. I wanted to present this question to see how the Christians on this board would answer it. I find it interesting that nobody questioned the power of God. Can God do anything imaginable? Can He always have existed and also never existed? Do you see any limits to God's power or do you believe that no matter what we imagine, God can do it? If God has limits, what are they?

He cannot build a mountain so big that He cannot jump over it. It is impossible for even God.

That’s not a limit of his power.

What kind of silly things were you taught?

What would you define it as?

 

[ding]

I am actually a christian and believe in God. I wanted to present this question to see how the Christians on this board would answer it. I find it interesting that nobody questioned the power of God. Can God do anything imaginable? Can He always have existed and also never existed? Do you see any limits to God's power or do you believe that no matter what we imagine, God can do it? If God has limits, what are they?

He cannot build a mountain so big that He cannot jump over it. It is impossible for even God.

That’s not a limit of his power.

What kind of silly things were you taught?

What would you define it as?

The best way to describe God’s power is purpose. If God achieved his purpose through the sheer power of omnipotence, than rather than being a sign of power, it would be a sign of weakness.

God is seeking certain outcomes under certain conditions. We are all being tested. If we were forced to be virtuous then there would be no test and no purpose to all of this.

 

[ding]

We are never to think of God's power in terms of what he could conceivably do by the exercise of what we may call sheer omnipotence which crushes all obstacles in its path. We are always to think of God's power in terms of his purpose. If what he did by sheer omnipotence defeated his purpose, then, however startling and impressive, it would be an expression of weakness, not of power. Indeed, a good definition of power is "ability to achieve purpose. Does it fulfill its purpose?

 

[ding]

The greatest example of power is having power and choosing not to use it.

 

[presonorek]

I am actually a christian and believe in God. I wanted to present this question to see how the Christians on this board would answer it. I find it interesting that nobody questioned the power of God. Can God do anything imaginable? Can He always have existed and also never existed? Do you see any limits to God's power or do you believe that no matter what we imagine, God can do it? If God has limits, what are they?

He cannot build a mountain so big that He cannot jump over it. It is impossible for even God.

That’s not a limit of his power.

What kind of silly things were you taught?

It is called a paradox.