IF higher taxes will create jobs, why did the stimulus fail?

[Sallow]

NASA bleeds money. That's why the space program is being defunded.

They also create technology.



So the government creates technologies and the private sector profits from them.

Let me ask you: Do you think that supports your claim? If so, please think again.



Without government, those contracts would never have been signed. The government created those contracts and fostered the growth it created.

Now one can say but for the government contract, there would not have been the income from the construction of needed war material. However, it was not as though these companies were sitting with empty factories waiting for government to hand them work to do.

What the fuck are you talking about? Cap utilization was about 50% when the war started! Of course there were empty factories.

We call that "The Great Depression". Perhaps you've heard of it. And when the war started, hundreds of new factories were built, which created wealth.

I'm amazed how far rightwingnuts will go to deny the clear and obvious facts in front of them - to the extent they will claim that there weren't empty factories in 1940

Precious.

Govt doesnt create technology.

Anyway, how did those factories get built? Who paid to build them? Where did the money come from? It had to be taxed from existing income earners or borrowed, crowding out private entities.
That is the part the Left always forgets. The money has to come from somewhere because Gov't cannot create it.

Oh yes it can..

Section 8 - Powers of Congress
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

 

[The Rabbi]

They also create technology.



So the government creates technologies and the private sector profits from them.

Let me ask you: Do you think that supports your claim? If so, please think again.



Without government, those contracts would never have been signed. The government created those contracts and fostered the growth it created.



What the fuck are you talking about? Cap utilization was about 50% when the war started! Of course there were empty factories.

We call that "The Great Depression". Perhaps you've heard of it. And when the war started, hundreds of new factories were built, which created wealth.

I'm amazed how far rightwingnuts will go to deny the clear and obvious facts in front of them - to the extent they will claim that there weren't empty factories in 1940

Precious.

Govt doesnt create technology.

Anyway, how did those factories get built? Who paid to build them? Where did the money come from? It had to be taxed from existing income earners or borrowed, crowding out private entities.
That is the part the Left always forgets. The money has to come from somewhere because Gov't cannot create it.

Oh yes it can..

Section 8 - Powers of Congress
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

I dont see anything about creating money, only coining it.
The distinction is doubtless lost on you.

 

[JRK]

They also create technology.



So the government creates technologies and the private sector profits from them.

Let me ask you: Do you think that supports your claim? If so, please think again.



Without government, those contracts would never have been signed. The government created those contracts and fostered the growth it created.



What the fuck are you talking about? Cap utilization was about 50% when the war started! Of course there were empty factories.

We call that "The Great Depression". Perhaps you've heard of it. And when the war started, hundreds of new factories were built, which created wealth.

I'm amazed how far rightwingnuts will go to deny the clear and obvious facts in front of them - to the extent they will claim that there weren't empty factories in 1940

Precious.

Govt doesnt create technology.

Anyway, how did those factories get built? Who paid to build them? Where did the money come from? It had to be taxed from existing income earners or borrowed, crowding out private entities.
That is the part the Left always forgets. The money has to come from somewhere because Gov't cannot create it.

Oh yes it can..

Section 8 - Powers of Congress
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

what does that have to do with creating wealth?
It blows me away that the liberal cannot grasp without Exxon paying taxes, me and who ever else pays in this country the United sates government is broke
Those choices the liberal keeps claiming created any wealth, the tax payer may have done the same with his own wealth
Thats the whole point is it not?
Look SS and Medicare has its place
Interstates
state hi ways
county roads
public lands

all of a value and have a place

a place, a wealth that would not exist if the tax payer had not provided the original welath to make it happen

One more thing
why is it our public lands are in a place we cannot invest in and harvest the recourse's
create jobs

 

[Sallow]

Govt doesnt create technology.

Anyway, how did those factories get built? Who paid to build them? Where did the money come from? It had to be taxed from existing income earners or borrowed, crowding out private entities.
That is the part the Left always forgets. The money has to come from somewhere because Gov't cannot create it.

Oh yes it can..

Section 8 - Powers of Congress
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

I dont see anything about creating money, only coining it.
The distinction is doubtless lost on you.

 

[Sallow]

Govt doesnt create technology.

Anyway, how did those factories get built? Who paid to build them? Where did the money come from? It had to be taxed from existing income earners or borrowed, crowding out private entities.
That is the part the Left always forgets. The money has to come from somewhere because Gov't cannot create it.

Oh yes it can..

Section 8 - Powers of Congress
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

what does that have to do with creating wealth?
It blows me away that the liberal cannot grasp without Exxon paying taxes, me and who ever else pays in this country the United sates government is broke
Those choices the liberal keeps claiming created any wealth, the tax payer may have done the same with his own wealth
Thats the whole point is it not?
Look SS and Medicare has its place
Interstates
state hi ways
county roads
public lands

all of a value and have a place

a place, a wealth that would not exist if the tax payer had not provided the original welath to make it happen

One more thing
why is it our public lands are in a place we cannot invest in and harvest the recourse's
create jobs

Exxon you say??

Exxon's Income Tax: $0 [UPDATED] | Mother Jones

 

[The Rabbi]

Oh yes it can..

I dont see anything about creating money, only coining it.
The distinction is doubtless lost on you.

People laugh at what they don't understand.
Can you define "money"?

 

[JRK]

Oh yes it can..

what does that have to do with creating wealth?
It blows me away that the liberal cannot grasp without Exxon paying taxes, me and who ever else pays in this country the United sates government is broke
Those choices the liberal keeps claiming created any wealth, the tax payer may have done the same with his own wealth
Thats the whole point is it not?
Look SS and Medicare has its place
Interstates
state hi ways
county roads
public lands

all of a value and have a place

a place, a wealth that would not exist if the tax payer had not provided the original welath to make it happen

One more thing
why is it our public lands are in a place we cannot invest in and harvest the recourse's
create jobs

Exxon you say??

Exxon's Income Tax: $0 [UPDATED] | Mother Jones

Exxon's Record $9.32 Billion Q1 Income Taxes: Update - Seeking Alpha

where do you guys get this crap?
U.S. tax codes allow companies to take massive deductions in light of those international charges, which knocked Exxon's federal income-tax bill down into negative territory.

That said, Uncle Sam gets his money in other ways. Including sales taxes and duties, Exxon recorded $7.7 billion in U.S. tax costs last year, and paid even more overseas.
Tax bills for 5 corporate giants - Wal-Mart Stores: $7.1 billion (1) - CNNMoney.com

Let me add Exxon did not pay that either
the consumer did
you raise the tax on Exxon
you raise the tax on the consumer is all you have done

 

[The Rabbi]

Oh yes it can..

what does that have to do with creating wealth?
It blows me away that the liberal cannot grasp without Exxon paying taxes, me and who ever else pays in this country the United sates government is broke
Those choices the liberal keeps claiming created any wealth, the tax payer may have done the same with his own wealth
Thats the whole point is it not?
Look SS and Medicare has its place
Interstates
state hi ways
county roads
public lands

all of a value and have a place

a place, a wealth that would not exist if the tax payer had not provided the original welath to make it happen

One more thing
why is it our public lands are in a place we cannot invest in and harvest the recourse's
create jobs

Exxon you say??

Exxon's Income Tax: $0 [UPDATED] | Mother Jones

Another lie.
Actual number: $21.5B
Exxon Mobil Corporation 2010 Summary Annual Report

Amnd that's only income tax. There are lot of other business taxes, depleting and royalties payments they make.

 

[Care4all]

All of that is a lie.
You have this annoying history of posting bullshit and then when disproven you disappear and refuse to acknowledge you were wrong.
Why should anyone take you seriously?

NONE absolutely NONE of that is a lie....

feel free to show us all, the lie....

i'll be waiting...........

how many times do you want to see its a lie?
how many?
his last year deficit?
what year was that?
2009?
so the stimulus was GWB?
and Gm getting the 74 billion was GWB?
and lets see whose budget was for 09 and who signed it
National Coalition for Homeless Veterans - President Obama Signs FY 2009 Budget into Law

and where do you keep getting this 6 trillion dollar number from?
with intrest?
Thats not GWB fault
He added as i have supplied numerous links about 2.5-3 trillion
Budget 2011: Past Deficits vs. Obama’s Deficits in Pictures | The Foundry

the fiscal years of 2002 through 2009 are president bush's 8 years, the fiscal years of 1994-2001 are president clintons, the fiscal years for Obama are 2010-2013 if 4 years, 2010-2017 if 8 years.....that's a FACT, jack....this is how history is or will be writen in Obama's case.

When President Bush came in to office in January of 2001, he passed legislation to give us all stimulus tax rebates and we all got a $300 or $600 dollar check if married, that august as part of his tax cuts.....the year end for President Clinton's last year, had another month left before it was over...

And GUESS WHAT? Fiscal year 2001, even with all of president Bush's action that changed the budget for that year, got attributed to President Clinton....the budget surplus for fiscal 2001 would have been much greater than what it was with bush's stimulus tax rebates that President Bush spent....still it is clinton's budget.

this is the same with Barak Obama....his first fiscal Budget, due to congress in march of 2009 by rules, was for 2010, beginning October 1, 2009.

President Bush did present a budget for 2009 which began on October 1, 2008....and ended sept 30th 2009. His Budget was for $3.1 trillion WITHOUT the cost of the Iraq war and Afghan war.....and without TARP and all other bailouts in it.

He had projected to bring in revenues, 2.7 trillion and expected to show a $400 billion deficit, WITHOUT THE WARS....but when revenues came in, they fell well short of his $2.7 trillion estimate....$600 billion LESS in revenues than he projected....$2.1 trillion in total revenues.....he was 1 TRILLION in deficit off of his budget plans WITHOUT putting the Iraq and afghan spending in to it....and without what he spent in bailouts in to it....

Obama's stimulus amount was for a two year stimulus....not even half of it was spent before the end of Fiscal year 2009....it might have added $200 billion with GM to the $1.4/5 trillion dollar deficit for Bush's 2009 fiscal year....

the entire 1.4 trillion dollar deficit is attributed to president Bush, as 2001 was attributed to Clinton.

The President's budget for 2009 totals $3.1 trillion. Percentages in parentheses indicate percentage change compared to 2008. This budget request is broken down by the following expenditures:

Mandatory spending: $1.89 trillion (+6.2%)
$644 billion - Social Security
$408 billion - Medicare
$224 billion - Medicaid and the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP)
$360 billion - Unemployment/Welfare/Other mandatory spending
$260 billion - Interest on National Debt
Discretionary spending: $1.21 trillion (+4.9%)
$515.4 billion - United States Department of Defense
$145.2 billion(2008*) - Global War on Terror
$70.4 billion - United States Department of Health and Human Services
$68.2 billion - United States Department of Transportation
$45.4 billion - United States Department of Education
$44.8 billion - United States Department of Veterans Affairs
$38.5 billion - United States Department of Housing and Urban Development
$38.3 billion - State and Other International Programs
$37.6 billion - United States Department of Homeland Security
$25.0 billion - United States Department of Energy
$20.8 billion - United States Department of Agriculture
$20.3 billion - United States Department of Justice
$17.6 billion - National Aeronautics and Space Administration
$12.5 billion - United States Department of the Treasury
$10.6 billion - United States Department of the Interior
$10.5 billion - United States Department of Labor
$8.4 billion - Social Security Administration
$7.1 billion - United States Environmental Protection Agency
$6.9 billion - National Science Foundation
$6.3 billion - Judicial branch (United States federal courts)
$4.7 billion - Legislative branch (United States Congress)
$4.7 billion - United States Army Corps of Engineers
$0.4 billion - Executive Office of the President
$0.7 billion - Small Business Administration
$7.2 billion - Other agencies
$39.0 billion(2008*) - Other Off-budget Discretionary Spending

The financial cost of the Iraq War and the War in Afghanistan are not part of the defense budget; they are appropriations.

Deficit

With projected receipts less than projected outlays, the budget proposed by President Bush predicts a net deficit of approximately $400 billion dollars, adding to a United States governmental debt of about $11.4 trillion. Actual tax receipts totaled approximately $2.1 trillion - significantly less than the $2.7 trillion expected. The actual deficit in 2009 was $1.4 trillion.

2009 United States federal budget - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When President Clinton's last fiscal year ended for his term, and with all of president bush's actions taken included, like his stimulus tax rebate checks he sent to us in August/september of 2001, the total National Public Debt had risen to $5.67 trillion....this is president bush's beginning point....and when President Bush's last fiscal year came to an end september 30th of 2009, the total National Public debt had reached $11.9 trillion dollars....

$11.9 trillion in national debt, minus the $5.6 trillion of the national debt left after Clinton's 8fiscal years, leaves $6.3 TRILLION ADDED to the national debt....

And IF you do not want to count the gm bailout, EVEN THOUGH it was President bush's initial action that gave them this bailout...and you don't want to count whatever stimulus was spent before September 30th's year end for 2009, then by all means, take the 200-300 billion out of it...

And this leaves the $6 TRILLION DOLLARS President Bush, under his 8 year term, addition to the National Public Debt.

Government - Historical Debt Outstanding - Annual 2000 - 2010

Total Public Debt 2000-2010

09/30/2010 13,561,623,030,891.79
09/30/2009 11,909,829,003,511.75
09/30/2008 10,024,724,896,912.49
09/30/2007 9,007,653,372,262.48
09/30/2006 8,506,973,899,215.23
09/30/2005 7,932,709,661,723.50
09/30/2004 7,379,052,696,330.32
09/30/2003 6,783,231,062,743.62
09/30/2002 6,228,235,965,597.16
09/30/2001 5,807,463,412,200.06
09/30/2000 5,674,178,209,886.86

According to the CBO, the U.S. last had a surplus during fiscal year (FY) 2001. From FY2001 to FY2009, spending increased by 6.5% of GDP (from 18.2% of GDP to 24.7%) while taxes declined by 4.7% of GDP (from 19.5% of GDP to 14.8%). The drivers of the expense increases (expressed as % of GDP) are Medicare & Medicaid (1.7%), Defense (1.6%), Income Security such as unemployment benefits and food stamps (1.4%), Social Security (0.6%) and all other categories (1.2%). The drivers of tax reductions are individual income taxes (−3.3%), payroll taxes (−0.5%), corporate income taxes (−0.5%) and other (−0.4%). The 2009 spending level is the highest relative to GDP in 40 years, while the tax receipts are the lowest relative to GDP in 40 years. The next highest spending year was 1985 (22.8%) while the next lowest tax year was 2004 (16.1%).[48]

Unlike President Bush, President Obama has included the Iraq and Afghan wars in his budgets and did not take steps to hide their effects from the budget as President bush had tried to do.

and obviously the heritage foundation WAS NOT SPEAKING about our Total national public debt.....they hoped to confuse you and others with debt we owe to foreign countries vs owe to ourselves verses our TOTAL NATIONAL PUBLIC DEBT, and clearly they did.

 

[JRK]

NONE absolutely NONE of that is a lie....

feel free to show us all, the lie....

i'll be waiting...........

how many times do you want to see its a lie?
how many?
his last year deficit?
what year was that?
2009?
so the stimulus was GWB?
and Gm getting the 74 billion was GWB?
and lets see whose budget was for 09 and who signed it
National Coalition for Homeless Veterans - President Obama Signs FY 2009 Budget into Law

and where do you keep getting this 6 trillion dollar number from?
with intrest?
Thats not GWB fault
He added as i have supplied numerous links about 2.5-3 trillion
Budget 2011: Past Deficits vs. Obama’s Deficits in Pictures | The Foundry

the fiscal years of 2002 through 2009 are president bush's 8 years, the fiscal years of 1994-2001 are president clintons, the fiscal years for Obama are 2010-2013 if 4 years, 2010-2017 if 8 years.....that's a FACT, jack....this is how history is or will be writen in Obama's case.

When President Bush came in to office in January of 2001, he passed legislation to give us all stimulus tax rebates and we all got a $300 or $600 dollar check if married, that august as part of his tax cuts.....the year end for President Clinton's last year, had another month left before it was over...

And GUESS WHAT? Fiscal year 2001, even with all of president Bush's action that changed the budget for that year, got attributed to President Clinton....the budget surplus for fiscal 2001 would have been much greater than what it was with bush's stimulus tax rebates that President Bush spent....still it is clinton's budget.

this is the same with Barak Obama....his first fiscal Budget, due to congress in march of 2009 by rules, was for 2010, beginning October 1, 2009.

President Bush did present a budget for 2009 which began on October 1, 2008....and ended sept 30th 2009. His Budget was for $3.1 trillion WITHOUT the cost of the Iraq war and Afghan war.....and without TARP and all other bailouts in it.

He had projected to bring in revenues, 2.7 trillion and expected to show a $400 billion deficit, WITHOUT THE WARS....but when revenues came in, they fell well short of his $2.7 trillion estimate....$600 billion LESS in revenues than he projected....$2.1 trillion in total revenues.....he was 1 TRILLION in deficit off of his budget plans WITHOUT putting the Iraq and afghan spending in to it....and without what he spent in bailouts in to it....

Obama's stimulus amount was for a two year stimulus....not even half of it was spent before the end of Fiscal year 2009....it might have added $200 billion with GM to the $1.4/5 trillion dollar deficit for Bush's 2009 fiscal year....

the entire 1.4 trillion dollar deficit is attributed to president Bush, as 2001 was attributed to Clinton.

The President's budget for 2009 totals $3.1 trillion. Percentages in parentheses indicate percentage change compared to 2008. This budget request is broken down by the following expenditures:

Mandatory spending: $1.89 trillion (+6.2%)
$644 billion - Social Security
$408 billion - Medicare
$224 billion - Medicaid and the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP)
$360 billion - Unemployment/Welfare/Other mandatory spending
$260 billion - Interest on National Debt
Discretionary spending: $1.21 trillion (+4.9%)
$515.4 billion - United States Department of Defense
$145.2 billion(2008*) - Global War on Terror
$70.4 billion - United States Department of Health and Human Services
$68.2 billion - United States Department of Transportation
$45.4 billion - United States Department of Education
$44.8 billion - United States Department of Veterans Affairs
$38.5 billion - United States Department of Housing and Urban Development
$38.3 billion - State and Other International Programs
$37.6 billion - United States Department of Homeland Security
$25.0 billion - United States Department of Energy
$20.8 billion - United States Department of Agriculture
$20.3 billion - United States Department of Justice
$17.6 billion - National Aeronautics and Space Administration
$12.5 billion - United States Department of the Treasury
$10.6 billion - United States Department of the Interior
$10.5 billion - United States Department of Labor
$8.4 billion - Social Security Administration
$7.1 billion - United States Environmental Protection Agency
$6.9 billion - National Science Foundation
$6.3 billion - Judicial branch (United States federal courts)
$4.7 billion - Legislative branch (United States Congress)
$4.7 billion - United States Army Corps of Engineers
$0.4 billion - Executive Office of the President
$0.7 billion - Small Business Administration
$7.2 billion - Other agencies
$39.0 billion(2008*) - Other Off-budget Discretionary Spending

The financial cost of the Iraq War and the War in Afghanistan are not part of the defense budget; they are appropriations.

Deficit

With projected receipts less than projected outlays, the budget proposed by President Bush predicts a net deficit of approximately $400 billion dollars, adding to a United States governmental debt of about $11.4 trillion. Actual tax receipts totaled approximately $2.1 trillion - significantly less than the $2.7 trillion expected. The actual deficit in 2009 was $1.4 trillion.

2009 United States federal budget - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When President Clinton's last fiscal year ended for his term, and with all of president bush's actions taken included like his stimulus tax rebate checks he sent to us in August/september of 2001, the total National Public Debt had risen to $5.67 trillion....this is president bush's beginning point....and when President Bush's last fiscal year came to an end september 30th of 2009, the total National Public debt had reached $11.9 trillion dollars....

$11.9 trillion in national debt, minus the $5.6 trillion of the national debt left after Clinton's 8fiscal years, leaves $6.3 TRILLION ADDED to the national debt....

And IF you do not want to count the gm bailout, EVEN THOUGH it was President bush's initial action that gave them this bailout...and you don't want to count whatever stimulus was spent before September 30th's year end for 2009, then by all means, take the 200-300 billion out of it...

And this leaves the $6 TRILLION DOLLARS President Bush, under his 8 year term, addition to the National Public Debt.

Government - Historical Debt Outstanding - Annual 2000 - 2010

Total Public Debt 2000-2010

09/30/2010 13,561,623,030,891.79
09/30/2009 11,909,829,003,511.75
09/30/2008 10,024,724,896,912.49
09/30/2007 9,007,653,372,262.48
09/30/2006 8,506,973,899,215.23
09/30/2005 7,932,709,661,723.50
09/30/2004 7,379,052,696,330.32
09/30/2003 6,783,231,062,743.62
09/30/2002 6,228,235,965,597.16
09/30/2001 5,807,463,412,200.06
09/30/2000 5,674,178,209,886.86

Unlike President Bush, President Obama has included the Iraq and Afghan wars in his budgets and did not take steps to hide their effects from the budget as President bush had tried to do.
Many Obama defenders in the comments are claiming that the numbers above do not include spending on Iraq and Afghanistan during the Bush years. They most certainly do. While Bush did fund the wars through emergency supplementals (not the regular budget process), that spending did not simply vanish. It is included in the numbers above. [/B][/U]Also, sSome Obama defenders are claiming the graphic above represents biased Heritage Foundation numbers. While we stand behind the numbers we put out 100%, the numbers, and the graphic itself, above are from the Washington Post. We originally left out the link to WaPo. It has

and obviously the heritage foundation WAS NOT SPEAKING about our Total national public debt.....they hoped to confuse you and others with debt we owe to foreign countries vs owe to ourselves verses our TOTAL NATIONAL PUBLIC DEBT, and clearly they did.

Your deficit has interest from deficits GWB inherited in it

The wars are included, see herein

2009 GWB would sign, the best guess is about 500 billion is his
Obama 2009 Budget
Bush Deficit vs. Obama Deficit in Pictures | The Foundry
That debt has interest in it


President Barack Obama has repeatedly claimed that his budget would cut the deficit by half by the end of his term. But as Heritage analyst Brian Riedl has pointed out, given that Obama has already helped quadruple the deficit with his stimulus package, pledging to halve it by 2013 is hardly ambitious. The Washington Post has a great graphic which helps put President Obama’s budget deficits in context of President Bush’s.

What’s driving Obama’s unprecedented massive deficits? Spending. Riedl details:

President Bush expanded the federal budget by a historic $700 billion through 2008. President Obama would add another $1 trillion.
President Bush began a string of expensive finan*cial bailouts. President Obama is accelerating that course.
President Bush created a Medicare drug entitle*ment that will cost an estimated $800 billion in its first decade. President Obama has proposed a $634 billion down payment on a new govern*ment health care fund.
President Bush increased federal education spending 58 percent faster than inflation. Presi*dent Obama would double it.
President Bush became the first President to spend 3 percent of GDP on federal antipoverty programs. President Obama has already in*creased this spending by 20 percent.
President Bush tilted the income tax burden more toward upper-income taxpayers. President Obama would continue that trend.

President Bush presided over a $2.5 trillion increase in the public debt through 2008. Setting aside 2009 (for which Presidents Bush and Obama share responsibility for an additional $2.6 trillion in public debt), President Obama’s budget would add $4.9 trillion in public debt from the beginning of 2010 through 2016.
UPDATE: Many Obama defenders in the comments are claiming that the numbers above do not include spending on Iraq and Afghanistan during the Bush years. They most certainly do. While Bush did fund the wars through emergency supplementals (not the regular budget process), that spending did not simply vanish. It is included in the numbers above. Also, sSome Obama defenders are claiming the graphic above represents biased Heritage Foundation numbers. While we stand behind the numbers we put out 100%, the numbers, and the graphic itself, above are from the Washington Post. We originally left out the link to WaPo. It has now been added.

CLARIFICATION: Of course, this Washington Post graphic does not perfectly delineate budget surpluses and deficits by administration. President Bush took office in January 2001, and therefore played a lead role in crafting the FY 2002-2008 budgets. Presidents Bush and Obama share responsibility for the FY 2009 budget deficit that overlaps their administrations, before President Obama assumes full budgetary responsibility beginning in FY 2010. Overall, President Obama’s budget would add twice as much debt as President Bush over the same number of years.

 

[8537]

No, you couldn't.
The percentage of defense expenditures that actually secures private property is tiny.

really now? All defense spending protects private property.

But it cannot create wealth.

You agreed that government create's wealth not more than two posts ago. Please try to keep your bullshit straight.

OK. Let me clarify for your feeble brain:
Gov't does not create wealth. It can create conditions conducive to creating wealth, like patents, standardized currency and judicial systems. But that is not the same thing.

Government plays a role in creating wealth? kthx.

 

[8537]

Govt doesnt create technology.

People working for the government do.

 

[8537]

NASA bleeds money. That's why the space program is being defunded.

They also create technology.



So the government creates technologies and the private sector profits from them.

Let me ask you: Do you think that supports your claim? If so, please think again.



Without government, those contracts would never have been signed. The government created those contracts and fostered the growth it created.

Now one can say but for the government contract, there would not have been the income from the construction of needed war material. However, it was not as though these companies were sitting with empty factories waiting for government to hand them work to do.

What the fuck are you talking about? Cap utilization was about 50% when the war started! Of course there were empty factories.

We call that "The Great Depression". Perhaps you've heard of it. And when the war started, hundreds of new factories were built, which created wealth.

I'm amazed how far rightwingnuts will go to deny the clear and obvious facts in front of them - to the extent they will claim that there weren't empty factories in 1940

Precious.

People that wealth was created by the tax payer
nothing else, no-one else
I do not care if it was pre war
post war

The tax payer foots the bill
The US govt does nothing but collect and re distribute
and how it does it dictates how much wealth it destroys
The Stimulus is the perfect example

Please explain how the patent office:

1. collects and redistributes wealth while

2. Not fostering wealth creation.

 

[JRK]

really now? All defense spending protects private property.




You agreed that government create's wealth not more than two posts ago. Please try to keep your bullshit straight.

ok. Let me clarify for your feeble brain:
Gov't does not create wealth. It can create conditions conducive to creating wealth, like patents, standardized currency and judicial systems. But that is not the same thing.

government plays a role in creating wealth? Kthx.

no it does not
govt takes wealth from the tax payer an re distribute's it
patent office is funded by tax payers wealth

 

[The Rabbi]

really now? All defense spending protects private property.




You agreed that government create's wealth not more than two posts ago. Please try to keep your bullshit straight.

OK. Let me clarify for your feeble brain:
Gov't does not create wealth. It can create conditions conducive to creating wealth, like patents, standardized currency and judicial systems. But that is not the same thing.

Government plays a role in creating wealth? kthx.

Gov't does not create wealth.
At last we agree.

 

[JRK]

They also create technology.



So the government creates technologies and the private sector profits from them.

Let me ask you: Do you think that supports your claim? If so, please think again.



Without government, those contracts would never have been signed. The government created those contracts and fostered the growth it created.



What the fuck are you talking about? Cap utilization was about 50% when the war started! Of course there were empty factories.

We call that "The Great Depression". Perhaps you've heard of it. And when the war started, hundreds of new factories were built, which created wealth.

I'm amazed how far rightwingnuts will go to deny the clear and obvious facts in front of them - to the extent they will claim that there weren't empty factories in 1940

Precious.

People that wealth was created by the tax payer
nothing else, no-one else
I do not care if it was pre war
post war

The tax payer foots the bill
The US govt does nothing but collect and re distribute
and how it does it dictates how much wealth it destroys
The Stimulus is the perfect example

Please explain how the patent office:

1. collects and redistributes wealth while

2. Not fostering wealth creation.

when the question is asked, what came first
the chicken or the egg
we know when it comes to the patent office
the monies collected from the tax payer

Why is that so hard to understand?

And the argument could be made that as far as a patent goes, thats for the people, by the people
no matter
it does not exist without funds from the tax payer

 

[Care4all]

how many times do you want to see its a lie?
how many?
his last year deficit?
what year was that?
2009?
so the stimulus was GWB?
and Gm getting the 74 billion was GWB?
and lets see whose budget was for 09 and who signed it
National Coalition for Homeless Veterans - President Obama Signs FY 2009 Budget into Law

and where do you keep getting this 6 trillion dollar number from?
with intrest?
Thats not GWB fault
He added as i have supplied numerous links about 2.5-3 trillion
Budget 2011: Past Deficits vs. Obama’s Deficits in Pictures | The Foundry

the fiscal years of 2002 through 2009 are president bush's 8 years, the fiscal years of 1994-2001 are president clintons, the fiscal years for Obama are 2010-2013 if 4 years, 2010-2017 if 8 years.....that's a FACT, jack....this is how history is or will be writen in Obama's case.

When President Bush came in to office in January of 2001, he passed legislation to give us all stimulus tax rebates and we all got a $300 or $600 dollar check if married, that august as part of his tax cuts.....the year end for President Clinton's last year, had another month left before it was over...

And GUESS WHAT? Fiscal year 2001, even with all of president Bush's action that changed the budget for that year, got attributed to President Clinton....the budget surplus for fiscal 2001 would have been much greater than what it was with bush's stimulus tax rebates that President Bush spent....still it is clinton's budget.

this is the same with Barak Obama....his first fiscal Budget, due to congress in march of 2009 by rules, was for 2010, beginning October 1, 2009.

President Bush did present a budget for 2009 which began on October 1, 2008....and ended sept 30th 2009. His Budget was for $3.1 trillion WITHOUT the cost of the Iraq war and Afghan war.....and without TARP and all other bailouts in it.

He had projected to bring in revenues, 2.7 trillion and expected to show a $400 billion deficit, WITHOUT THE WARS....but when revenues came in, they fell well short of his $2.7 trillion estimate....$600 billion LESS in revenues than he projected....$2.1 trillion in total revenues.....he was 1 TRILLION in deficit off of his budget plans WITHOUT putting the Iraq and afghan spending in to it....and without what he spent in bailouts in to it....

Obama's stimulus amount was for a two year stimulus....not even half of it was spent before the end of Fiscal year 2009....it might have added $200 billion with GM to the $1.4/5 trillion dollar deficit for Bush's 2009 fiscal year....

the entire 1.4 trillion dollar deficit is attributed to president Bush, as 2001 was attributed to Clinton.



When President Clinton's last fiscal year ended for his term, and with all of president bush's actions taken included like his stimulus tax rebate checks he sent to us in August/september of 2001, the total National Public Debt had risen to $5.67 trillion....this is president bush's beginning point....and when President Bush's last fiscal year came to an end september 30th of 2009, the total National Public debt had reached $11.9 trillion dollars....

$11.9 trillion in national debt, minus the $5.6 trillion of the national debt left after Clinton's 8fiscal years, leaves $6.3 TRILLION ADDED to the national debt....

And IF you do not want to count the gm bailout, EVEN THOUGH it was President bush's initial action that gave them this bailout...and you don't want to count whatever stimulus was spent before September 30th's year end for 2009, then by all means, take the 200-300 billion out of it...

And this leaves the $6 TRILLION DOLLARS President Bush, under his 8 year term, addition to the National Public Debt.

Government - Historical Debt Outstanding - Annual 2000 - 2010

Total Public Debt 2000-2010

09/30/2010 13,561,623,030,891.79
09/30/2009 11,909,829,003,511.75
09/30/2008 10,024,724,896,912.49
09/30/2007 9,007,653,372,262.48
09/30/2006 8,506,973,899,215.23
09/30/2005 7,932,709,661,723.50
09/30/2004 7,379,052,696,330.32
09/30/2003 6,783,231,062,743.62
09/30/2002 6,228,235,965,597.16
09/30/2001 5,807,463,412,200.06
09/30/2000 5,674,178,209,886.86

Unlike President Bush, President Obama has included the Iraq and Afghan wars in his budgets and did not take steps to hide their effects from the budget as President bush had tried to do.
Many Obama defenders in the comments are claiming that the numbers above do not include spending on Iraq and Afghanistan during the Bush years. They most certainly do. While Bush did fund the wars through emergency supplementals (not the regular budget process), that spending did not simply vanish. It is included in the numbers above. [/B][/U]Also, sSome Obama defenders are claiming the graphic above represents biased Heritage Foundation numbers. While we stand behind the numbers we put out 100%, the numbers, and the graphic itself, above are from the Washington Post. We originally left out the link to WaPo. It has

and obviously the heritage foundation WAS NOT SPEAKING about our Total national public debt.....they hoped to confuse you and others with debt we owe to foreign countries vs owe to ourselves verses our TOTAL NATIONAL PUBLIC DEBT, and clearly they did.

Your deficit has interest from deficits GWB inherited in it

The wars are included, see herein

2009 GWB would sign, the best guess is about 500 billion is his
Obama 2009 Budget
Bush Deficit vs. Obama Deficit in Pictures | The Foundry
That debt has interest in it


President Barack Obama has repeatedly claimed that his budget would cut the deficit by half by the end of his term. But as Heritage analyst Brian Riedl has pointed out, given that Obama has already helped quadruple the deficit with his stimulus package, pledging to halve it by 2013 is hardly ambitious. The Washington Post has a great graphic which helps put President Obama’s budget deficits in context of President Bush’s.

What’s driving Obama’s unprecedented massive deficits? Spending. Riedl details:

President Bush expanded the federal budget by a historic $700 billion through 2008. President Obama would add another $1 trillion.
President Bush began a string of expensive finan*cial bailouts. President Obama is accelerating that course.
President Bush created a Medicare drug entitle*ment that will cost an estimated $800 billion in its first decade. President Obama has proposed a $634 billion down payment on a new govern*ment health care fund.
President Bush increased federal education spending 58 percent faster than inflation. Presi*dent Obama would double it.
President Bush became the first President to spend 3 percent of GDP on federal antipoverty programs. President Obama has already in*creased this spending by 20 percent.
President Bush tilted the income tax burden more toward upper-income taxpayers. President Obama would continue that trend.

President Bush presided over a $2.5 trillion increase in the public debt through 2008. Setting aside 2009 (for which Presidents Bush and Obama share responsibility for an additional $2.6 trillion in public debt), President Obama’s budget would add $4.9 trillion in public debt from the beginning of 2010 through 2016.
UPDATE: Many Obama defenders in the comments are claiming that the numbers above do not include spending on Iraq and Afghanistan during the Bush years. They most certainly do. While Bush did fund the wars through emergency supplementals (not the regular budget process), that spending did not simply vanish. It is included in the numbers above. Also, sSome Obama defenders are claiming the graphic above represents biased Heritage Foundation numbers. While we stand behind the numbers we put out 100%, the numbers, and the graphic itself, above are from the Washington Post. We originally left out the link to WaPo. It has now been added.

CLARIFICATION: Of course, this Washington Post graphic does not perfectly delineate budget surpluses and deficits by administration. President Bush took office in January 2001, and therefore played a lead role in crafting the FY 2002-2008 budgets. Presidents Bush and Obama share responsibility for the FY 2009 budget deficit that overlaps their administrations, before President Obama assumes full budgetary responsibility beginning in FY 2010. Overall, President Obama’s budget would add twice as much debt as President Bush over the same number of years.

you are simply wrong.....first, your articles keep using 2008 fiscal budget as bush's last budget but it was NOT.

and as I showed you, even if congress had passed president bush's BUDGET before he left office, following president bush's budget would have given us well over a TRILLION DOLLAR DEFICIT WITHOUT Obama's stimulus and gm bailout which president bush started....take 200-300 billion of the deficit and attribute that to Obama....if that's how you want to play with the numbers.

President Bush still added $6 TRILLION DOLLARS to our total national public debt....and YES, this is where his Iraq war and Afghan war spending makes its appearance.....this is where it gets recorded....in the national debt numbers.

NO new hire CEO is held accountable for figures for at least 1-2 years after hire....this is how it works in business and it is how it should be looked at with Presidents....Obama was handed poop in a breadbasket and there is not much one can do for at least a year, to change things.....as with the new CEO, there is a grace period given, so what they enact has time to work through.

and the stimulus was not all spent at once so you can NOT count the full amount as spent before the fiscal end of 2009.

History and records of history will show fiscal year 2009 attributed to president Bush, as it should. and history shows fiscal year 2001 attributed to Clinton, as it should.

and I am not saying once Obama was responsible for the Budget, he did a fine and dandy job.....he did not and has not gotten the lower revenues and spending in check with his 2010 budget or 2011 budget.

 

[Care4all]

oh, and of COURSE the budget and national debt has the interest payment on our borrowed national debt included in the figures.....just as they are included in obama's deficit/debt numbers for all the borrowing of all previous presidents.....clinton, bush1, bush 2, reagan etc etc

 

[Rodack]

Democrats spent 3 generations of budgets and created.........."Saved" jobs



LOL


Democrats are educated

 

[8537]

ok. Let me clarify for your feeble brain:
Gov't does not create wealth. It can create conditions conducive to creating wealth, like patents, standardized currency and judicial systems. But that is not the same thing.

government plays a role in creating wealth? Kthx.

no it does not
govt takes wealth from the tax payer an re distribute's it
patent office is funded by tax payers wealth

Lol. Just stop, JRK. You're embarrassing yourself. The protection of private property rights doesn't play a role in creating wealth?

That would explain why countries with no such protections are such thriving wealth creators!

Oh wait...