If Hobby Lobby wins...

[Cecilie1200]

Fornication is certainly a sin according to the Bible;

shouldn't a Christian employer have the right to refuse to hire 'fornicators'? Or fire them if their sins are discovered?

yes they should...especially if the employee's actions are detrimental to his business...

Seems to me if someone is so indiscreet and immature that their employer KNOWS they fuck around, there are some real questions about whether someone would WANT to employ them.

I know my employer has fired people who slept with coworkers . . . not because of the sin, but because of the drama and hassle it caused.

 

[Cecilie1200]

To add; Hobby Lobby covered these hormones they reject now - for years -- as part of their plan.

Up until 2012.

And as we all know, people have no legal right whatsoever to change their minds.

 

[Cecilie1200]

You're going to have to do better than a slurp-lipped columnists from TownHall.com

Scientific consensus.

American College of Obstetricians and GynecologistS: “there is a scientific distinction between a contraceptive and an abortifacient and the scientific record demonstrates that none of the FDA-approved contraceptives covered by the Mandate are abortifacients.”

Scientific 'consensus' is not scientific fact....

why do the women need all 20 of the contraceptives....you'd think 16 would be MORE than enough.....why are those 4 specifically needed....?

<shaking my head>

The IQ points drain away here sometimes just reading some of the posts...

In other words, you have no answer.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Both regular Birth Control and Emergency Birth Control:


1. Prevent ovulation

2. Prevent fertilization

3. Prevent implantation

The only difference is the dosage of the hormone and frequency of use.

Neither one are abortifacients.

You have obviously deluded yourself into believe YOU get to define for everyone else what constitutes an "abortifacient". Unfortunately, you don't, and religious belief isn't defined as "those things that Paperview has decided are true".

 

[Cecilie1200]

Rubbers cost a buck. Buy them your damn selves and stop being freeloaders

You understand Hobby Lobby provides regular Birth Control now, and has for some time?

They also covered Plan B before, for a number of years, and since 2010, Ella.

You do know Plan B - that is, Emergency Contraception is not nine dollars?

It runs from 50 to 70 dollars. Also, some women are not able to take regular Birth Control pills, for many, an IUD would be recommended. The insertion and cost of these can run up to a thousand dollars.

That is a burden for low wage earning women, many married, with children -- who are already paying for the cost insurance through their labor and pay.

I missed the point where this is the problem of anyone other than the woman herself. It was probably buried under all the violins and sobbing.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Dude -- even the National Catholic Reporter lays it out: "there is no scientific evidence that any FDA-approved contraception is capable of destroying an embryo."

What an abortifacient is -- and what it isn't | National Catholic Reporter

some of that seems pretty borderline.....

when she starts the sympathy appeal about all the rape cases as reason for using these drugs.....i get suspicious...

...are you prepping for a debut of a fresh "legitimate rape" commentary?

God forbid we allow women who have been raped insurance coverage to Emergency Contraception....

We might be more impressed with your highly moral concern for rape victims if you weren't constantly using them as human shields.

 

[Politico]

Viagra is a medication used in treatment of heart disease. Treating erectile dysfunction is a side effect. Insurance should pay when used to treat heart disease. Other than that buy your own.

Birth control pills are prescribed for dysmensia, ovarian cysts, endometriosis, and other conditions, not just birth control.

I'm sure that one of those 16 that Hobby Lobby covers will help those with the afflictions that you mention, Gram.

Quite a few do. But that's not what it's about as I said.

 

[JoeB131]

It's curious really, how a small fraction of our population can dictate the direction of the the greater part. But then again, the pea sized brains of sauropods managed to drive those massive beasts, so anything is possible I suppose.

Though, we were warned of this type of behavior in the Federalist papers, namely in Federalist #10 by James Madison.

Again, don't really care what a dead slave rapist said 200 years ago.

A minority should be protected against the tyranny of the majority. There's really no compelling reason why the straight community should be able to prevent the gays from getting married.

"I think it's icky" and "It makes my Magic Sky Man Cry" aren't good enough reasons.

 

[NYcarbineer]

To add; Hobby Lobby covered these hormones they reject now - for years -- as part of their plan.

Up until 2012.

And as we all know, people have no legal right whatsoever to change their minds.

What you meant is, according to the Hobby Lobbyists, God changed his mind. Their claim is based on their professed obligation to adhere to their religious beliefs.

 

[NYcarbineer]

It's curious really, how a small fraction of our population can dictate the direction of the the greater part. But then again, the pea sized brains of sauropods managed to drive those massive beasts, so anything is possible I suppose.

Though, we were warned of this type of behavior in the Federalist papers, namely in Federalist #10 by James Madison.

That would have been when Madison was arguing against leaving too much power in the hands of the States, vs. the federal government.

Given that a very small fraction of the business community are insisting on trying to dictate to the rest of us what laws they will be or not be subject to in the handling of their employees,

what was your point exactly?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Fornication is certainly a sin according to the Bible;

shouldn't a Christian employer have the right to refuse to hire 'fornicators'? Or fire them if their sins are discovered?

Ever hear of a morality clause in a professional contract?

So Hobby Lobby should be able to fire some women when they find out she has a live-in boyfriend?

lolol

 

[NYcarbineer]

Pompous.

It's an opinion, jackass.

It's an opinion like believing the Earth is only 6000 years old is an opinion.

In other words, government is your religion.

Did you respond to the wrong post? Try to pay attention.

 

[NYcarbineer]

some of that seems pretty borderline.....

when she starts the sympathy appeal about all the rape cases as reason for using these drugs.....i get suspicious...

...are you prepping for a debut of a fresh "legitimate rape" commentary?

are you prepping for a debut of a fresh 'women should decide to kill or not kill' commentary...?

does rape justify homicide....?

Ignoring your lame attempt to prejudice the statement with language,

of course it does. Only a demented person out of touch with the most core and common principles of civilized humanity would force a woman to have a child conceived by rape.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Fornication is certainly a sin according to the Bible;

shouldn't a Christian employer have the right to refuse to hire 'fornicators'? Or fire them if their sins are discovered?

Ever hear of a morality clause in a professional contract?

Yes and that's irrelevant.

I'm asking if Hobby Lobby should have the right, for example, not to hire gays, on the grounds they are 'fornicators' -

on those grounds ALONE, with Hobby Lobby claiming religious freedom as their constitutional justification?

 

[Redfish]

The employees.

In this case. However, if Corporations gain the right to discriminate on the basis of

'the corporation's religion'

-- it would have a similar effect of what (the ill-fated) SB1062 was meant to do, to ignore federal laws and allow discrimination based on religion against a wide swath of people.

there is no discrimination here, all employees are treated equally. HL's insurance covers all kinds of birth control. Their only objection is to abortion causing drugs after the birth control has either failed or not been used.

Its really a shame that not one of you lib/dems even understands what this suit is about.

The issue is not abortion. The federal government can't fund abortion. The federal government can already pay for IUD's.

That is exactly the issue, HL does not want their company provided insurance to cover abortion causing drugs------------that is the ONLY issue.

 

[Redfish]

Fornication is certainly a sin according to the Bible;

shouldn't a Christian employer have the right to refuse to hire 'fornicators'? Or fire them if their sins are discovered?

Ever hear of a morality clause in a professional contract?

So Hobby Lobby should be able to fire some women when they find out she has a live-in boyfriend?

lolol

do their employees sign a morality contract as a prerequistite of employment? of course not. that red herring smells just as bad as all the rest of your red herrings.

 

[Redfish]

Fornication is certainly a sin according to the Bible;

shouldn't a Christian employer have the right to refuse to hire 'fornicators'? Or fire them if their sins are discovered?

Ever hear of a morality clause in a professional contract?

Yes and that's irrelevant.

I'm asking if Hobby Lobby should have the right, for example, not to hire gays, on the grounds they are 'fornicators' -

on those grounds ALONE, with Hobby Lobby claiming religious freedom as their constitutional justification?

No, they should not have the right to not hire someone on the basis of sexual preferences. Every one of your attempts an moral equivalency suck.

this case is about HL no wanting to provide abortion causing drugs as part of the insurance that they provide to their employees. That is all it is about.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

...are you prepping for a debut of a fresh "legitimate rape" commentary?

are you prepping for a debut of a fresh 'women should decide to kill or not kill' commentary...?

does rape justify homicide....?

Ignoring your lame attempt to prejudice the statement with language,

of course it does. Only a demented person out of touch with the most core and common principles of civilized humanity would force a woman to have a child conceived by rape.

then i take it you support the death penalty for the rapist as well.....?

 

[Uncensored2008]

To allow Hobby Lobby a special exemption to the health insurance law creates a situation where the employees at Hobby Lobby, through no fault of their own,

would be denied equal treatment under the law.

Is that what happened when unions were given a special exemption?

Do their rights count?

Does congress have the right to pass laws which infringe the free exercise of religion? Does Dear Leader?

 

[Uncensored2008]

I think it's very probable that they will.

Obviously, the three female justices will vote against them, and Breyer.

Alito, Scalia, Uncle Tom and Roberts will vote for them.

And that leaves Kennedy. Mr. Swing vote.

Sonja Sotomayor was put on the court because she is dumb, and pliable. Obama viewed her as a mindless drone who would follow the orders of Ginsburg. But twice now, Sotomayor has bucked the yoke of the party and ruled against party directives. In both those cases, the issue was religious freedom. It appears that Sotomayor is a dedicated Catholic and will not aid in the censorship of the church.

I know the party views the 4 women on the court as a lock, but I think there is a solid chance that even Sotomayor will vote in favor of the 1st Amendment, leaving only Ginsburg, Kagan, and Breyer to hold up the party war on liberty.

Standard Disclamer: Breyer is gay enough to count as one of the gals, right?