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100% stupid and liberal!! empty idiotic rhetoric.Again? (Sigh.) Very well. Liberalism is a political philosophy defined by the core value of the liberty and well-being of the common person, as opposed to the aggrandizement of the rich and powerful. Everything flows from that, given a
particular set of material circumstances.
conservatism is defined by liberty from the rich and powerful. What did you think the Revolution was about. Was King George rich and powerful?
It's really astonishing that the Liberal sees the government as the agent that will penalize the successful simply because they are successful.
It is the basic tenet of their belief system.
It is astonishing.
As with most Liberals, he sings of Liberty
Apply this to the Affordable Care Act and please address the impact of the idea of the mandate as it affects liberty.
What are the party beliefs you described that are not race related?
Apply this to the Affordable Care Act and please address the impact of the idea of the mandate as it affects liberty.
The Affordable Care Act is not a liberal piece of legislation.
Apply this to the Affordable Care Act and please address the impact of the idea of the mandate as it affects liberty.
The Affordable Care Act is not a liberal piece of legislation.
Apply this to the Affordable Care Act and please address the impact of the idea of the mandate as it affects liberty.
The Affordable Care Act is not a liberal piece of legislation.
Is the Democrat Party a Liberal party?
The Affordable Care Act is not a liberal piece of legislation.
Is the Democrat Party a Liberal party?
maybe firstly you should ask him if 1+1=2 before you invest too much time on the liberal. I guess you boxed him in and he panicked and got even slower than usual.
Good work!
Apply this to the Affordable Care Act and please address the impact of the idea of the mandate as it affects liberty.
The Affordable Care Act is not a liberal piece of legislation.
Is the Democrat Party a Liberal party?
I'm just trying to find out what he believes.
The Affordable Care Act is not a liberal piece of legislation.
Is the Democrat Party a Liberal party?
No, although it has a few liberal members. By and large it's a conservative party, in the dictionary-definition sense of that word: protective of tradition and the status quo, skeptical of radical change, cautious and unwilling to go out too far on a limb.
I'm just trying to find out what he believes.
If that were true, you'd be satisfied now. What you're trying to do is to define what I believe in terms of certain pre-established categories. None of the answers I've given you fit into any of them, and that's why you think I haven't answered.
You are ascribing to these folks things they may have believed, but did not enact at the Federal Level.
The Constitution is what we are discussing and you are saying that the Founders imposed heavy regulation on Corporations.
In the post above you changed this to say that the Founders opposed swindling the common man. Heavy regulations occur before the swindle and the penalty after the swindle occur afterward. Obviously.
Can you produce a federal regulation from pre 1800 that demonstrates your claim? There is nothing in the Consstitution so that assertion is empty.
I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I'm just wondering how it exists in complete secrecy.
What The Founding Fathers Thought About Corporations
To say that the founding fathers supported corporations is very absurd. Its quite the opposite in fact. Corporations like the East India Trading Company were despised by the founders and they were just one reason why they chose to revolt against England. Corporations represented the moneyed interests much like they do today and they often wielded political power, sometimes to the point of governing a colony all by themselves like the Massachusetts Bay Company did.
But there is more evidence that the Revolutionary generation despised corporations. The East India Company was the largest corporation of its day and its dominance of trade angered the colonists so much, that they dumped the tea products it had on a ship into Boston Harbor which today is universally known as the Boston Tea Party. At the time, in Britain, large corporations funded elections generously and its stock was owned by nearly everyone in parliament. The founding fathers did not think much of these corporations that had great wealth and great influence in government. And that is precisely why they put restrictions upon them after the government was organized under the Constitution.
After the nation’s founding, corporations were granted charters by the state as they are today. Unlike today, however, corporations were only permitted to exist 20 or 30 years and could only deal in one commodity, could not hold stock in other companies, and their property holdings were limited to what they needed to accomplish their business goals. And perhaps the most important facet of all this is that most states in the early days of the nation had laws on the books that made any political contribution by corporations a criminal offense. When you think about it, the regulations imposed on corporations in the early days of America were far harsher than they are now. That is hardly proof that the founders supported corporations. In fact its quite the opposite. The corporate entity was so restrictive that many of America’s corporate giants set up their entities to avoid the corporate restrictions. For example, Andrew Carnegie set up his steel company as a limited partnership and John D. Rockefeller set up his Standard Oil company as a trust which would later be rightfully busted up into smaller companies by Theodore Roosevelt.
For those who need more evidence, how about statements from the founders themselves. As we all know, big banks are also considered corporations and here is what Thomas Jefferson thought about them. In an 1802 letter to Secretary of State Albert Gallatin, Jefferson said,
“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.”
Thomas Jefferson also said this in 1816,
“I hope that we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.”
Jefferson wasn’t the only founding father to make statements about corporations. John Adams also had an opinion.
“Banks have done more injury to the religion, morality, tranquility, prosperity, and even wealth of the nation than they can have done or ever will do good.”
Blah, Blah, Blah...
Show me the section in the Constitution in which they outlawed Corporations.
As far as this passage goes:
“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.”
Our children don't need banks and corporations to deprive them of their wealth. The Big 0 has pretty taken care of that with his ran a way spending.
Did you find any quotes from Jefferson regarding racking up 5 Trillion dollars of debt in three years?
"Show me the section in the Constitution in which they outlawed Corporations."
Please name three Liberal officials elected to Federal level offices.
Please name three Liberal officials elected to Federal level offices.
Nancy Pelosi, Dennis Kucinich, Mike Honda.
The reason you do not understand what I believe has nothing to do with my language. It's because you want to define myself, and liberalism in general, in terms of big or small government (ideally) and more generally in terms of specific government policies. I can't do that. Liberalism isn't about big or small government, although it has at times been about both as a means to an end. And that's what any specific policy is, too: a means to an end. It's the end that's defining, and I made that as clear as I can: the liberty and well-being of the common person, as opposed to the privileges and power of the wealthy elite. Liberalism is politics for the many, rather than the few. That's all it's ever been, and all it ever will be.
What The Founding Fathers Thought About Corporations
To say that the founding fathers supported corporations is very absurd. Its quite the opposite in fact. Corporations like the East India Trading Company were despised by the founders and they were just one reason why they chose to revolt against England. Corporations represented the moneyed interests much like they do today and they often wielded political power, sometimes to the point of governing a colony all by themselves like the Massachusetts Bay Company did.
But there is more evidence that the Revolutionary generation despised corporations. The East India Company was the largest corporation of its day and its dominance of trade angered the colonists so much, that they dumped the tea products it had on a ship into Boston Harbor which today is universally known as the Boston Tea Party. At the time, in Britain, large corporations funded elections generously and its stock was owned by nearly everyone in parliament. The founding fathers did not think much of these corporations that had great wealth and great influence in government. And that is precisely why they put restrictions upon them after the government was organized under the Constitution.
After the nations founding, corporations were granted charters by the state as they are today. Unlike today, however, corporations were only permitted to exist 20 or 30 years and could only deal in one commodity, could not hold stock in other companies, and their property holdings were limited to what they needed to accomplish their business goals. And perhaps the most important facet of all this is that most states in the early days of the nation had laws on the books that made any political contribution by corporations a criminal offense. When you think about it, the regulations imposed on corporations in the early days of America were far harsher than they are now. That is hardly proof that the founders supported corporations. In fact its quite the opposite. The corporate entity was so restrictive that many of Americas corporate giants set up their entities to avoid the corporate restrictions. For example, Andrew Carnegie set up his steel company as a limited partnership and John D. Rockefeller set up his Standard Oil company as a trust which would later be rightfully busted up into smaller companies by Theodore Roosevelt.
For those who need more evidence, how about statements from the founders themselves. As we all know, big banks are also considered corporations and here is what Thomas Jefferson thought about them. In an 1802 letter to Secretary of State Albert Gallatin, Jefferson said,
If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.
Thomas Jefferson also said this in 1816,
I hope that we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.
Jefferson wasnt the only founding father to make statements about corporations. John Adams also had an opinion.
Banks have done more injury to the religion, morality, tranquility, prosperity, and even wealth of the nation than they can have done or ever will do good.
Blah, Blah, Blah...
Show me the section in the Constitution in which they outlawed Corporations.
As far as this passage goes:
If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.
Our children don't need banks and corporations to deprive them of their wealth. The Big 0 has pretty taken care of that with his ran a way spending.
Did you find any quotes from Jefferson regarding racking up 5 Trillion dollars of debt in three years?
Here is where the conservative mind is deficient. Polarized thinking is an epidemic in the conservative mind.
"Show me the section in the Constitution in which they outlawed Corporations."
Nothing I posted calls for 'outlawing corporations' ....NOTHING...
What our founding fathers clearly understood is that government's role is to regulate corporations and monied interests to protect citizens/consumers from malfeasance. It is something that has been a echoed by succeeding generations and defined by other great Americans like Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, Dwight Eisenhower and John F. Kennedy...
There is nothing wrong with corporations. Corporations are a good thing. They encourage us to take risks. They maximize wealth. They create jobs. They're a great thing, but they should not be running our government. The reason for that is they don't have the same aspirations for America that you and I do. A corporation does not want democracy. It does not want free markets, it wants profits, and the best way for it to get profits is to use our campaign-finance system -- which is just a system of legalized bribery -- to get their stakes, their hooks into a public official and then use that public official to dismantle the marketplace to give them a competitive advantage and then to privatize the commons, to steal the commonwealth, to liquidate public assets for cash, to plunder, to steal from the rest of us.
And that doesn't mean corporations are a bad thing. It just means they're amoral, and we have to recognize that and not let them into the political process.
Teddy Roosevelt, a Republican, said that America would never be destroyed by a foreign power but he warned that our political institutions, our democratic institutions, would be subverted by malefactors of great wealth, who would erode them from within. Dwight Eisenhower, another Republican, in his most famous speech, warned America against domination by the military industrial complex.
Abraham Lincoln, the greatest Republican in our history, said during the height of the Civil War "I have the South in front of me and I have the bankers behind me. And for my country, I fear the bankers more." Franklin Roosevelt said during World War II that the domination of government by corporate power is "the essence of fascism" and Benito Mussolini -- who had an insider's view of that process -- said the same thing. Essentially, he complained that fascism should not be called fascism. It should be called corporatism because it was the merger of state and corporate power. And what we have to understand as Americans is that the domination of business by government is called communism. The domination of government by business is called fascism. And our job is to walk that narrow trail in between, which is free-market capitalism and democracy. And keep big government at bay with our right hand and corporate power at bay with our left.
RFK Jr.
"Harry Truman once said, 'There are 14 or 15 million Americans who have the resources to have representatives in Washington to protect their interests, and that the interests of the great mass of the other people - the 150 or 160 million - is the responsibility of the president of the United States, and I propose to fulfill it.'"
President John F. Kennedy
Blah, Blah, Blah...
Show me the section in the Constitution in which they outlawed Corporations.
As far as this passage goes:
If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.
Our children don't need banks and corporations to deprive them of their wealth. The Big 0 has pretty taken care of that with his ran a way spending.
Did you find any quotes from Jefferson regarding racking up 5 Trillion dollars of debt in three years?
Here is where the conservative mind is deficient. Polarized thinking is an epidemic in the conservative mind.
"Show me the section in the Constitution in which they outlawed Corporations."
Nothing I posted calls for 'outlawing corporations' ....NOTHING...
What our founding fathers clearly understood is that government's role is to regulate corporations and monied interests to protect citizens/consumers from malfeasance. It is something that has been a echoed by succeeding generations and defined by other great Americans like Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, Dwight Eisenhower and John F. Kennedy...
There is nothing wrong with corporations. Corporations are a good thing. They encourage us to take risks. They maximize wealth. They create jobs. They're a great thing, but they should not be running our government. The reason for that is they don't have the same aspirations for America that you and I do. A corporation does not want democracy. It does not want free markets, it wants profits, and the best way for it to get profits is to use our campaign-finance system -- which is just a system of legalized bribery -- to get their stakes, their hooks into a public official and then use that public official to dismantle the marketplace to give them a competitive advantage and then to privatize the commons, to steal the commonwealth, to liquidate public assets for cash, to plunder, to steal from the rest of us.
And that doesn't mean corporations are a bad thing. It just means they're amoral, and we have to recognize that and not let them into the political process.
Teddy Roosevelt, a Republican, said that America would never be destroyed by a foreign power but he warned that our political institutions, our democratic institutions, would be subverted by malefactors of great wealth, who would erode them from within. Dwight Eisenhower, another Republican, in his most famous speech, warned America against domination by the military industrial complex.
Abraham Lincoln, the greatest Republican in our history, said during the height of the Civil War "I have the South in front of me and I have the bankers behind me. And for my country, I fear the bankers more." Franklin Roosevelt said during World War II that the domination of government by corporate power is "the essence of fascism" and Benito Mussolini -- who had an insider's view of that process -- said the same thing. Essentially, he complained that fascism should not be called fascism. It should be called corporatism because it was the merger of state and corporate power. And what we have to understand as Americans is that the domination of business by government is called communism. The domination of government by business is called fascism. And our job is to walk that narrow trail in between, which is free-market capitalism and democracy. And keep big government at bay with our right hand and corporate power at bay with our left.
RFK Jr.
"Harry Truman once said, 'There are 14 or 15 million Americans who have the resources to have representatives in Washington to protect their interests, and that the interests of the great mass of the other people - the 150 or 160 million - is the responsibility of the president of the United States, and I propose to fulfill it.'"
President John F. Kennedy
The impact, size and influence of Corporations on government is well known.
This is the result of the corrupt and conniving influence peddlers that people our corrupt and greedy political parties.Corporations are not the only Lobbyists in Washington DC. Any group with an ax to grind has an ax grinder working in DC.
The web od corporate law has been woven over centurions in this country is is usually guided by the corrupt and conniving corporations influencing the corrupt and conniving politicians.
I asked for the citation in the Constitution because while they may have despised corporations, they probably did not see this as a Federal duty to regulate them. If they both despised them and felt this was a Federal Charge, it would be addressed in the Constitution.
They allowed the existence of corporations so, I would assume, they saw some value in them.
I don't think the Founders anticipated US Steel or GM at its height, but that is the genius of the document. They did anticipate corporations and chose to both allow them and to regulate them only as they dealt across state lines. That they became so powerful and in Teddy's time and were actually more powerful than the Federal Government in many important ways speaks more to the corruption of the legislature even then than it does to the Constitution's restriction on them.
Human foible has always existed, and will continue to exist after we are gone. It is not an excuse to DE-regulate corporations, eviscerate consumer protections or castrate environmental laws.
ALL of which are the agenda of modern day conservatives. Maybe conservatives just don't understand what the original Boston Tea Party was really about.
A pamphlet was circulated through the colonies called The Alarm and signed by an enigmatic "Rusticus." One issue made clear the feelings of colonial Americans about England's largest transnational corporation and its behavior around the world:
"Their Conduct in Asia, for some Years past, has given simple Proof, how little they regard the Laws of Nations, the Rights, Liberties, or Lives of Men. They have levied War, excited Rebellions, dethroned lawful Princes, and sacrificed Millions for the Sake of Gain. The Revenues of Mighty Kingdoms have entered their Coffers. And these not being sufficient to glut their Avarice, they have, by the most unparalleled Barbarities, Extortions, and Monopolies, stripped the miserable Inhabitants of their Property, and reduced whole Provinces to Indigence and Ruin. Fifteen hundred Thousands, it is said, perished by Famine in one Year, not because the Earth denied its Fruits; but [because] this Company and their Servants engulfed all the Necessaries of Life, and set them at so high a Price that the poor could not purchase them."
The email chain was getting too long. if the deletion changes any meanings, i apologize.
The Founders were, obviously, a rebellious group.
I'm not sure that dialing back the constraints placed on corporations that keep them from irrigating crops in California rises to the level of allowing 15,000 to perish in a famine. On the contrary, keeping growers from growing crops seems to have the famine inducing effect.
It's been a while since any rivers in the USA burst into flame. The question is, just how clean is clean? How much must we penalize any industry in order to protect the people? Where is reasonable line to draw in the sand? Right now, that line is moving away from reasonableness to ridiculousness.
Just as this administration and Democrat Party Liberals attack business for hiring non-union employees, they are using the power of the EPA to attack business.
When the goal of the EPA is to regulate for the good of people, that's one thing, but when it is to intimidate to make a point regarding its power and its control that is another.
Power and control seem to be where the EPA actions are leading.
It is not an excuse to DE-regulate corporations, eviscerate consumer protections or castrate environmental laws.
It is not an excuse to DE-regulate corporations, eviscerate consumer protections or castrate environmental laws.
Red China just deregulated and instantly saved 30-50 million from liberal en masse starvation. How is that for consumer protection??
