If the Holy Spirit is removed, did God lie if He doesn't rapture us?

[Chuckt]

"Until he" meaning the Holy Spirit "be taken out of the way".

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

The Holy Spirit will abide with us forever so if the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way, did God lie if we are still here and yet God said he may abide with us forever?

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

If we are still here and if God doesn't rapture us, did God lie?

 

[Avatar4321]

There is no rapture. It's an 18th century doctrine that was completely absent the previous two millennium of Christian history.

 

[hobelim]

"Until he" meaning the Holy Spirit "be taken out of the way".

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

The Holy Spirit will abide with us forever so if the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way, did God lie if we are still here and yet God said he may abide with us forever?

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

If we are still here and if God doesn't rapture us, did God lie?

You are confused.

Until he be taken out of the way is not about the holy spirit being removed but satan, the worker of iniquity.


And the passages about the comforter and Spirit of truth are not about God sending a disembodied entity to live inside of people, that is insane.

Jesus saying that God will send "another" is Jesus saying that God will send another man like him, who will speak for God.

“I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”

 

[Avatar4321]

There is no man like Jesus. He is quintessentially The Man. Mostly because He is the Son of Man.

 

[Mad Scientist]

There is no rapture. It's an 18th century doctrine that was completely absent the previous two millennium of Christian history.

I like dropping this on fellow Christians who say they're gonna' get "raptured".

"Does the Rapture happen BEFORE or AFTER the Tribulation?"

Them: "Er, um... before?"

 

[Chuckt]

There is no rapture. It's an 18th century doctrine that was completely absent the previous two millennium of Christian history.

I like dropping this on fellow Christians who say they're gonna' get "raptured".

"Does the Rapture happen BEFORE or AFTER the Tribulation?"

Them: "Er, um... before?"

Why is that so hard?
Before...

 

[PratchettFan]

"Until he" meaning the Holy Spirit "be taken out of the way".

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

The Holy Spirit will abide with us forever so if the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way, did God lie if we are still here and yet God said he may abide with us forever?

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

If we are still here and if God doesn't rapture us, did God lie?

Interesting that you ask the question if God lied, but not the question did we get it wrong?

 

[PostmodernProph]

I don't worry much about the rapture.....when Jesus comes again I'm going to heaven.....what happens to those who don't is for them to worry about.....

 

[Avatar4321]

"Until he" meaning the Holy Spirit "be taken out of the way".

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

The Holy Spirit will abide with us forever so if the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way, did God lie if we are still here and yet God said he may abide with us forever?

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

If we are still here and if God doesn't rapture us, did God lie?

Interesting that you ask the question if God lied, but not the question did we get it wrong?

That is an interesting observation. especially considering the issue is the rapture which we've discussed many times as an extremely late Christian belief.

 

[hobelim]

There is no man like Jesus. He is quintessentially The Man. Mostly because He is the Son of Man.

There is no other rational explanation for Jesus saying what he said except if he was insane. It is against divine law to seek the guidance of a ghost and if he told people to do that he was not the messiah.


However if he was speaking of God sending another man like him to teach people what Jesus thought was too much to bear 2000 years ago it does explain his claim of being the first and the last and his promise to come again.

Who else could shut what no man can open and open what no man can shut, "lead you into all of the truth."?

"All that the Father has is mine. That's why I told you, Everything he makes known to you he will draw from what is mine."

 

[Avatar4321]

The Holy Spirit has worked on men and guided the faithful since the days of Adam. It was when Adam was filled with the Holy Spirit that he prophesied of what would happen to his posterity in the last days.

If we are humble before the Lord and seek Him sincerely, He will teach us the truth of all things through the Holy Spirit.

 

[hobelim]

The Holy Spirit has worked on men and guided the faithful since the days of Adam. It was when Adam was filled with the Holy Spirit that he prophesied of what would happen to his posterity in the last days.

If we are humble before the Lord and seek Him sincerely, He will teach us the truth of all things through the Holy Spirit.

get real. The history of man does not seem to have been inspired by anything holy but by a spirit of perversity. If you are being taught by God, why do you openly worship a man?

where's the truth?

Anyway if what you believe is the holy spirit, an invisible disembodied entity that came at Pentecost, how is it that that holy spirit has not done even one single thing that Jesus said that the Spirit of truth would be sent by God to do when he came?

"When he comes he will confute the world and show where wrong and right and judgment lie. He will convict them of wrong by their refusal to believe in me and he will convince them that right is on my side by showing that I go to the Father when I pass from your sight, and he will convince them of divine judgment by showing that the prince of this world stands condemned."


Its been almost 2000 years and I do not believe that 'them', the Jews, have been convinced that they were wrong or convinced that Jesus was right about anything according to the teaching of a ghost.

People who claim to be filled with the holy spirit are full of something but it ain't holy.

 

[DriftingSand]

"Until he" meaning the Holy Spirit "be taken out of the way".

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

The Holy Spirit will abide with us forever so if the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way, did God lie if we are still here and yet God said he may abide with us forever?

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

If we are still here and if God doesn't rapture us, did God lie?

No. God (the Bible) doesn't say that Christians will be "raptured" so God wouldn't have lied. God cannot lie.

 

[LadyGunSlinger]

"Until he" meaning the Holy Spirit "be taken out of the way".

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

The Holy Spirit will abide with us forever so if the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way, did God lie if we are still here and yet God said he may abide with us forever?

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

If we are still here and if God doesn't rapture us, did God lie?

Some are pre-trib rapturists, Mid-trib- and post.. The scripture you're referring to remains a mystery for most to this day. Personally I believe there will not be a rapture and that every man, woman, and child will go through the 7 year period of Tribulation.

 

[DriftingSand]

"Until he" meaning the Holy Spirit "be taken out of the way".

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

The Holy Spirit will abide with us forever so if the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way, did God lie if we are still here and yet God said he may abide with us forever?

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

If we are still here and if God doesn't rapture us, did God lie?

Some are pre-trib rapturists, Mid-trib- and post.. The scripture you're referring to remains a mystery for most to this day. Personally I believe there will not be a rapture and that every man, woman, and child will go through the 7 year period of Tribulation.

BIG TIME agree with you. I've studied this issue in depth and can prove (scripturally) that the "pre-trib" rapture doctrine is incorrect.

 

[LadyGunSlinger]

"Until he" meaning the Holy Spirit "be taken out of the way".

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

The Holy Spirit will abide with us forever so if the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way, did God lie if we are still here and yet God said he may abide with us forever?

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

If we are still here and if God doesn't rapture us, did God lie?

Some are pre-trib rapturists, Mid-trib- and post.. The scripture you're referring to remains a mystery for most to this day. Personally I believe there will not be a rapture and that every man, woman, and child will go through the 7 year period of Tribulation.

BIG TIME agree with you. I've studied this issue in depth and can prove (scripturally) that the "pre-trib" rapture doctrine is incorrect.

It's an interesting conversation for sure.. Would love to hear your insight

 

[DriftingSand]

Here's a cut down version of my study on the rapture:

Proverbs 2:21-22,
"21For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it.
22But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it."

Proverbs 10:29-30,
"29The way of the LORD is strength to the upright: but destruction shall be to the workers of iniquity.
30The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth."

Psalms 37:29,
"29The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever."

John 17:15,
"15I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil."

The above verses indicate that the wicked, not the righteous, shall be taken away or removed from earth. Following is a second witness to that fact:

Matthew 13:38-43,
"38The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."

A very popular pro-rapture passage is found in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17,
"16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

Please note that "the dead in Christ shall rise first" when Christ returns at the sound of the "trump of God." Lets address the exact timing when the "dead shall rise" as well as the timing of this "trump of God."

John 6:40,
"40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 6:44,
"44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 6:54,
"54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."

Note: the dead do not rise until "the last day" at the sound of the trump of God. Now what is the "trump of God?" The 7 trumps are plainly listed in Revelation in chronological order:

Revelation 8:2, "2And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets."
Revelation 8:7, "7The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, ..."
Revelation 8:8, "8And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;"
Revelation 8:10, " 10And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp ..."
Revelation 8:12, " 12And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, ..."
Revelation 9:1, "1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit."
Revelation 9:13, "13And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,"
Revelation 11:15, "15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

1 Corinthians 15:52 clearly tells us when the dead shall be raised in relation to the trumps of God:

1 Corinthians 15:52,
"52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

So we know that the dead shall be raised on the last day at the sound of the last trump. We know that Jesus Christ doesn't return until after the tribulation of those days at "the last day."

It's the last (7th) and final trump of God that announces Christ's triumphant return. The first 6 trumps announce various phases of tribulation. This is witnessed by the following passage:

Matthew 24:29-31,
"29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

Christ clearly returns "after the tribulation of those days."

The Kingdom of God will be right here on earth:

Revelation 21:10,
"And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,"

Matthew 6:10, "Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven."

Psalms 37:29,
"29The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever."

 

[DriftingSand]

Some are pre-trib rapturists, Mid-trib- and post.. The scripture you're referring to remains a mystery for most to this day. Personally I believe there will not be a rapture and that every man, woman, and child will go through the 7 year period of Tribulation.

BIG TIME agree with you. I've studied this issue in depth and can prove (scripturally) that the "pre-trib" rapture doctrine is incorrect.

It's an interesting conversation for sure.. Would love to hear your insight

Howdy. Just posted my short version above.

 

[PostmodernProph]

"Until he" meaning the Holy Spirit "be taken out of the way".

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

The Holy Spirit will abide with us forever so if the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way, did God lie if we are still here and yet God said he may abide with us forever?

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

If we are still here and if God doesn't rapture us, did God lie?

Some are pre-trib rapturists, Mid-trib- and post.. The scripture you're referring to remains a mystery for most to this day. Personally I believe there will not be a rapture and that every man, woman, and child will go through the 7 year period of Tribulation.

BIG TIME agree with you. I've studied this issue in depth and can prove (scripturally) that the "pre-trib" rapture doctrine is incorrect.

I haven't studied it at all and can prove that I don't care.....

 

[DriftingSand]

Some are pre-trib rapturists, Mid-trib- and post.. The scripture you're referring to remains a mystery for most to this day. Personally I believe there will not be a rapture and that every man, woman, and child will go through the 7 year period of Tribulation.

BIG TIME agree with you. I've studied this issue in depth and can prove (scripturally) that the "pre-trib" rapture doctrine is incorrect.

I haven't studied it at all and can prove that I don't care.....

Thanks for your helpful and productive post. Deep!