If the Holy Spirit is removed, did God lie if He doesn't rapture us?

[Avatar4321]

I have never understood why Christians translate, "...the Son of Man", to be, "...the Son of God". I have always thought that Jesus meant exactly what he said, that he was not the son of god, but the son of man.

Because the Father is the Ultimate Man. Man of Holiness is His name so His Son is the Son of Man

 

[PostmodernProph]

The 10 commandments and the Sabbath were given ONLY to Jews

The very words of the ten "commandments" clearly tells us that the commandments were for the Jewish people ONLY!

God never brought the goyim or their ancestors out of Egypt! Ex 20:2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery."
The Lord has not given the goyim the promised land of Canaan! Ex 20:12 "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be prolonged in the land which the Lord your God gives you"
Since the Sabbath is a sign between God and fleshly Israel, there is nothing requiring non-Jews to keep it! (Ex. 31:13,17; Ezek. 20:12, 20)
If it was intended for all mankind, then why specifically say "strangers within your gates". Obviously the Gentiles (strangers) were never required at any point in earth history to keep the Sabbath!

so your argument is that there is nothing requiring non jews to keep the law, and to prove it you quote the portion of the Bible that says "On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns.".....sounds to me like the foreigner residing in your towns had to keep the law.......

not to mention Deuteronomy 4 which states the reason God gave the law....

5 See, I have taught you decrees and laws as the Lord my God commanded me, so that you may follow them in the land you are entering to take possession of it. 6 Observe them carefully, for this will show your wisdom and understanding to the nations, who will hear about all these decrees and say, “Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.” 7 What other nation is so great as to have their gods near them the way the Lord our God is near us whenever we pray to him? 8 And what other nation is so great as to have such righteous decrees and laws as this body of laws I am setting before you today?

 

[PostmodernProph]

I have never understood why Christians translate, "...the Son of Man", to be, "...the Son of God". I have always thought that Jesus meant exactly what he said, that he was not the son of god, but the son of man.

no one does.....the words of the Bible that say he is the Son of Man are in different places than the ones that say he's the son of God......it isn't a matter of translating the same words differently, just of reading them all......but I am curious.....why do you think Jesus said he was not the son of God?......

Maybe because he wasn't?

except he said he was.....and you posted that he said he wasn't.....

 

[DriftingSand]

I get a kick out of Christians quoting Hebrew scripture, it was given to and for the Jews and never pertained to non Jews. Moses brought own the ten guides , not commandments which referred to and was expounded in the 613 commandants given to the Jews.

On behalf of Israel, Moses received torah, traditionally translated 'law'. This is not law in the modern sense but rather authoritative teaching, instruction, or guidance. The most famous of these commandments are the Ten guides. But there are actually 613 commandments covering every aspect of life including law, family, and personal hygiene and diet.

Agreed. Christianity is not Judaism. However, Christianity still utilizes some of the key, moral standards found in the Old Testament and Christ and the Apostles often quoted from the Old Testament Scriptures.

God is God. He's the God of ALL creation and His standards are beneficial to all of humankind (regardless of nationality).

 

[DriftingSand]

The only thing goyim should follow are Noahic or Noahide commandments, which are inferred from Genesis Ch. 9, and are as follows: 1) to establish courts of justice; 2) not to commit blasphemy; 3) not to commit idolatry; 4) not to commit incest and adultery; 5) not to commit bloodshed; 6) not to commit robbery; and 7) not to eat flesh cut from a living animal.

Nothing more nothing less

Pretty interesting statement coming from a man who claims that there is no God. As for "goyim" (cattle) they are to accept and believe in Jesus Christ if they have any hope of seeing God's Holy Kingdom.

 

[emilynghiem]

[MENTION=47091]PostmodernProph[/MENTION]

I have never understood why Christians translate, "...the Son of Man", to be, "...the Son of God". I have always thought that Jesus meant exactly what he said, that he was not the son of god, but the son of man.

no one does.....the words of the Bible that say he is the Son of Man are in different places than the ones that say he's the son of God......it isn't a matter of translating the same words differently, just of reading them all......but I am curious.....why do you think Jesus said he was not the son of God?......

In John 10:29-30 Jesus says BOTH that the Father is greater than all, and also that he and the Father are ONE.

I think, like any other person or prophet trying to teach, he is trying to say BOTH
that only God is supreme, so people do not worship "him instead of God"

But he is also affirming that his will is ONE with God inseparable.
So he is as the Christians say, God's will or justice INCARNATED in man.

So he is both Son of Man and Son of God.
He comes to bridge the gap between man's laws and God's laws,
to bring one unifying spirit of Justice that Equally fulfills man's laws of
human nature and governance on a secular/civil level
and God's divine laws of collective spirituality that the churches teach with sacred laws in religions.

So he is BOTH, he is trying to humble himself and make it clear God the Father is greater than all while also dealing with the position of representing God's laws as Justice fulfilled.

Not either/or but both fulfilling natural laws of man and divine laws of God.
both sets of laws represent universal laws of all humanity, but the natural laws are seen from secular gentiles
as being impersonal and not necessarily connected to the personified God.

 

[Chuckt]

I guess my follow up question is on Genesis 6:3. If God said His spirit would not always strive with man and he saw that man was continually wicked before he brought the flood then I have to pause here. So why shouldn't the Holy Spirit be removed when the book of Revelation shows man is evil and won't repent? Luke 17:26 says just as it was in the days of noah, so also will it be in the days of the son of man. If that is true, the Holy Spirit won't strive with man and it is another indication the Bible is true and I 've been giving people the truth.

See my other arguments in my OP which feed into this post, please.

 

[hobelim]

I guess my follow up question is on Genesis 6:3. If God said His spirit would not always strive with man and he saw that man was continually wicked before he brought the flood then I have to pause here. So why shouldn't the Holy Spirit be removed when the book of Revelation shows man is evil and won't repent? Luke 17:26 says just as it was in the days of noah, so also will it be in the days of the son of man. If that is true, the Holy Spirit won't strive with man and it is another indication the Bible is true and I 've been giving people the truth.

See my other arguments in my OP which feed into this post, please.

Who are you trying to convince? yourself?

Hate to break the news to you chuck but the only thing proven here is that you are confused, blind as a bat, and don't know what the hell you are talking about yet mysteriously you still claim to see.

You worship a human being. desecrate the teachings of Jesus and perjure yourself in the name of God.

If scripture is true, you cannot have life in you. Everything you profess to believe is a lie yet someone is supposed to believe you have been giving people the truth?

Yeah, right.

 

[DriftingSand]

I guess my follow up question is on Genesis 6:3. If God said His spirit would not always strive with man and he saw that man was continually wicked before he brought the flood then I have to pause here. So why shouldn't the Holy Spirit be removed when the book of Revelation shows man is evil and won't repent? Luke 17:26 says just as it was in the days of noah, so also will it be in the days of the son of man. If that is true, the Holy Spirit won't strive with man and it is another indication the Bible is true and I 've been giving people the truth.

See my other arguments in my OP which feed into this post, please.

Who are you trying to convince? yourself?

Hate to break the news to you chuck but the only thing proven here is that you are confused, blind as a bat, and don't know what the hell you are talking about yet mysteriously you still claim to see.

You worship a human being. desecrate the teachings of Jesus and perjure yourself in the name of God.

If scripture is true, you cannot have life in you. Everything you profess to believe is a lie yet someone is supposed to believe you have been giving people the truth?

Yeah, right.

Try backing your claims up with a tad bit of evidence. The Bible is clear on the subject. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word WAS God and the Word was "made flesh." (See John 1:1 and 1:14).

 

[hobelim]

I guess my follow up question is on Genesis 6:3. If God said His spirit would not always strive with man and he saw that man was continually wicked before he brought the flood then I have to pause here. So why shouldn't the Holy Spirit be removed when the book of Revelation shows man is evil and won't repent? Luke 17:26 says just as it was in the days of noah, so also will it be in the days of the son of man. If that is true, the Holy Spirit won't strive with man and it is another indication the Bible is true and I 've been giving people the truth.

See my other arguments in my OP which feed into this post, please.

Who are you trying to convince? yourself?

Hate to break the news to you chuck but the only thing proven here is that you are confused, blind as a bat, and don't know what the hell you are talking about yet mysteriously you still claim to see.

You worship a human being. desecrate the teachings of Jesus and perjure yourself in the name of God.

If scripture is true, you cannot have life in you. Everything you profess to believe is a lie yet someone is supposed to believe you have been giving people the truth?

Yeah, right.

Try backing your claims up with a tad bit of evidence. The Bible is clear on the subject. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word WAS God and the Word was "made flesh." (See John 1:1 and 1:14).

John is just establishing that flesh is a metaphor for words, a body of teaching, that Jesus received from God like manna from heaven and gave for the life of the world. Hence eat my flesh,

It is not about God becoming a man. It is about teaching from God coming into the world like a light through a man, Jesus.

and it does not say that the WORD WAS GOD. It says logos was theos, not ho Theos.

In the greek Ho Theos is God. theos without the definite atricle ho before it means like God or godlike.

The word/reason , logos, was with Ho Theos, GOD, and the word/reason was theos, like God; reflective of God.

 

[Chuckt]

In the greek Ho Theos is God. theos without the definite atricle ho before it means like God or godlike.

The word/reason , logos, was with Ho Theos, GOD, and the word/reason was theos, like God; reflective of God.

The Lack of a Greek Definite Article

Another common confusion in John 1:1 comes from the fact that in Greek there is no definite article in front of the word ‘God’ (‘theos’) in the phrase ‘and the Word was God’. The confusion arises from an assumption that if there is no definite article in the Greek, then it must have an indefinite meaning and thus should be translated with the indefinite article "a". Based on this understanding, some argue that this phrase in John 1:1 should be translated "the word was a god," rather than "the word was God." It is important at this point to understand that the Greek language has a definite article (‘the’), but does not have an indefinite article (‘a’ or ‘an’). In certain instances, when the Greek omits a definite article, it may be appropriate to insert an indefinite article for the sake of the English translation and understanding. But we cannot assume that this is always appropriate. Greek does not operate in the same way as English does in regard to the use of the words ‘the’ and ‘a’. In many instances in which English would not include the word ‘the’, the Greek text includes it. (We don’t see it in the English translations because it would sound non-sensible in our language.) (See Note 1, below.) And in many cases where the Greek omits the definite article, the English translation requires it to convey the correct meaning of the Greek. (See Note 2, below.) Therefore it cannot be assumed that if the definite article is absent, then an indefinite article should be inserted. (For a clear illustration of this, see an example of the use of the word ‘God’ and the definite article in John chapter one.) Furthermore, even though the Greek language does not have an ‘indefinite article’ like we think of in English, there is a way in Greek for the writer to indicate the indefinite idea and thus avoid confusion. This is done in Greek by using the Greek indefinite pronoun ‘tis’.
In John 1:1 there is no definite article in front of the word ‘God’ in the phrase, ‘and the Word was God’. However, in this instance, it cannot just be assumed that the word ‘God’ is meant to be ‘indefinite’, and therefore an indefinite article used in the English translation. Because the first use of the word ‘God’ in John 1:1 (‘the Word was with God’) clearly refers to the Only True God, the Eternal Pre-existent Creator, more than likely John would have used a different Greek construction than he did if he had meant for this next phrase (‘and the Word was God’) to refer to a ‘lesser’ god, and did not want us to confuse this with the True God he had just mentioned. If John meant to avoid confusion, when making such a definitive statement, he could have done so by using this ‘indefinite pronoun’ (‘tis’) as an adjective. This would have made it clear that the Word was ‘a certain god’, but not the one he was just referring to. For examples of this, see the verses Mark 14:51, Luke 8:27, Luke 1:5, and Luke 11:1 (among many, many other examples). So, it seems that by the Greek grammatical structure in this statement, John is indicating that the Word (Jesus Christ - John 1:14) is the same essence and nature as God the Father.
(For a more thorough explanation of the function and use of the Greek article (and meaning of its absence), see ‘Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics’, by Daniel Wallace. He includes fifty pages - entitled ‘The Article, Part I’ - which is a more complete treatment of the subject that many grammar books present and explains all the general uses of the article. He actually has a ‘Part II’ which discusses some special issues with the article. Fifteen pages of this second section apply directly to understanding this passage in John 1:1. It is highly recommended for those who really desire an honest and thorough understanding of this passage.)

Explanation of John 1:1

 

[DriftingSand]

Who are you trying to convince? yourself?

Hate to break the news to you chuck but the only thing proven here is that you are confused, blind as a bat, and don't know what the hell you are talking about yet mysteriously you still claim to see.

You worship a human being. desecrate the teachings of Jesus and perjure yourself in the name of God.

If scripture is true, you cannot have life in you. Everything you profess to believe is a lie yet someone is supposed to believe you have been giving people the truth?

Yeah, right.

Try backing your claims up with a tad bit of evidence. The Bible is clear on the subject. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word WAS God and the Word was "made flesh." (See John 1:1 and 1:14).

John is just establishing that flesh is a metaphor for words, a body of teaching, that Jesus received from God like manna from heaven and gave for the life of the world. Hence eat my flesh,

It is not about God becoming a man. It is about teaching from God coming into the world like a light through a man, Jesus.

and it does not say that the WORD WAS GOD. It says logos was theos, not ho Theos.

In the greek Ho Theos is God. theos without the definite atricle ho before it means like God or godlike.

The word/reason , logos, was with Ho Theos, GOD, and the word/reason was theos, like God; reflective of God.

Nope. You're wrong about that. Let's see what the Bible says about "The Son":

Isaiah 9:6, "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

Matthew 1:23, "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us."

Isaiah 7:14, "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."

The "kicker":

Colossians 1:13-17, "Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."

Christ is eternal. It's always best to let the Bible interpret the Bible. Don't let our petty ideas and opinions get in the way.

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear [MENTION=44368]Chuckt[/MENTION] and [MENTION=43287]hobelim[/MENTION]:
Just because the Holy Spirit/Healing isn't received in full yet, but there are reasons it is denied, does not mean it will not be received later after those problems are resolved!

So yes, the healing and peace will be blocked while there is "unforgiveness"
and also the healing and peace will be restored when people choose to "forgive."

The Scripture I would focus on is
the "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" will not be forgiven in this age or the next.

So there are at least 2-3 generational stages where unforgiveness will repeat
until finally it is resolved at the very end.

The one sin God cannot heal is unforgiveness because we must choose to ask divine help before this can be removed. Unforgiveness blocks God's will and he will not force "forgiveness" on people against our will.

Chuckt have you ever tried to forgive or make someone else forgive by force?
it does not work!

So this is PLAIN COMMON SENSE that forgiveness only works when it is freely chosen.

Can you find that scripture on the Holy Spirit?
Do you agree that "unforgiveness" is the one unforgiveable sin
that can only be healed and corrected with forgiveness AFTER we ASK.

If we do not ask help to forgive, YES we stay stuck in unforgiveness,
it causes a cycle of generational sins karmic suffering or abuses to repeat,
and there is no healing or holy spirit received during that process. Not until
we ask help to forgive and heal those wounds of injustice, or they will continue like war.

I guess my follow up question is on Genesis 6:3. If God said His spirit would not always strive with man and he saw that man was continually wicked before he brought the flood then I have to pause here. So why shouldn't the Holy Spirit be removed when the book of Revelation shows man is evil and won't repent? Luke 17:26 says just as it was in the days of noah, so also will it be in the days of the son of man. If that is true, the Holy Spirit won't strive with man and it is another indication the Bible is true and I 've been giving people the truth.

See my other arguments in my OP which feed into this post, please.

 

[Chuckt]

Dear [MENTION=44368]Chuckt[/MENTION] and [MENTION=43287]hobelim[/MENTION]:
Just because the Holy Spirit/Healing isn't received in full yet, but there are reasons it is denied, does not mean it will not be received later after those problems are resolved!

So yes, the healing and peace will be blocked while there is "unforgiveness"
and also the healing and peace will be restored when people choose to "forgive."

The Scripture I would focus on is
the "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" will not be forgiven in this age or the next.

So there are at least 2-3 generational stages where unforgiveness will repeat
until finally it is resolved at the very end.

The one sin God cannot heal is unforgiveness because we must choose to ask divine help before this can be removed. Unforgiveness blocks God's will and he will not force "forgiveness" on people against our will.

Chuckt have you ever tried to forgive or make someone else forgive by force?
it does not work!

So this is PLAIN COMMON SENSE that forgiveness only works when it is freely chosen.

Can you find that scripture on the Holy Spirit?
Do you agree that "unforgiveness" is the one unforgiveable sin
that can only be healed and corrected with forgiveness AFTER we ASK.

If we do not ask help to forgive, YES we stay stuck in unforgiveness,
it causes a cycle of generational sins karmic suffering or abuses to repeat,
and there is no healing or holy spirit received during that process. Not until
we ask help to forgive and heal those wounds of injustice, or they will continue like war.

I guess my follow up question is on Genesis 6:3. If God said His spirit would not always strive with man and he saw that man was continually wicked before he brought the flood then I have to pause here. So why shouldn't the Holy Spirit be removed when the book of Revelation shows man is evil and won't repent? Luke 17:26 says just as it was in the days of noah, so also will it be in the days of the son of man. If that is true, the Holy Spirit won't strive with man and it is another indication the Bible is true and I 've been giving people the truth.

See my other arguments in my OP which feed into this post, please.

Emilyngheim,

I am not saying that God or man can't forgive. Historically through the Bible, the Holy Spirit was only given to the Jewish nation which didn't honor the sabbath and because of their sins and their idolatry, God sent them through two captivities and scattered them throughout the earth. It is honorable that there were gentiles in the Jewish nation of Israel or people whom we think were gentiles.

Plan B is that the Holy Spirit came to the Church or the Gentiles to finish God's mission and when the last person gets saved, I believe that God will turn His attention back to the nation of Israel and deal with them.

Romans 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

God hasn't cast off His people. He did break off some of the natural branches.

Romans 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

The Church was grafted in.

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

When "the fulness of the Gentiles be come in" then what happens? God has no more need of them because they can't do their mission and God loves playing against a stacked deck of cards so God will once again give the Nation of Israel another chance and take the Holy Spirit away from the Church as we will be raptured and the Holy Spirit will go to the Jews to minister to them so that a remnant can be saved.

If people don't believe, that is okay but when people who are alive to see it, the rapture will be the greatest apologetic tool because what people didn't believe will happen and the people living at the time will see this great miracle but it will be harder to do anything about it because they may have to work without the Holy Spirit as He will be given to the tiny nation of Israel.

Chuck

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I have never understood why Christians translate, "...the Son of Man", to be, "...the Son of God". I have always thought that Jesus meant exactly what he said, that he was not the son of god, but the son of man.

Vandalshandle, the Holy Spirit is the one who will reveal these truths to you. Let me ask you a question first. Was Adam the son of God or the son of man? If he is the son of God then how could Jesus be called the "second Adam"? Was not Jesus referred to as the son of man? How do we reconcile this, Vandal? You see, there were only two men who were a direct creation of God and because the first son of God fell into sin God promised in the garden He would send another who would bruise the head of satan and he would bruise his heel. This being the second Adam, Jesus. The Son of God. This is why it is written:

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth on him should not perish but have everlasting life. - John 3 : 16

Was Adam the son of God or the son of man?

it is written:
.....the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalaleel, the son of Cainan,the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God. - Luke 3:37,38

Who was Adam? The son of God. Who is the second Adam? Jesus, the Only Begotten Son of God.

It is written:

God is not a man that he should lie nor the son of man that he should repent.

- Numbers 23:19

Jesus is not a man that he should lie nor the son of man that he should repent. Jesus is God who came in the flesh as a man but whose blood was the blood of His Father, perfect blood for the remission of sins, not the covering of. The remission. Jesus was in the bloodline of His Father. Not his mother.

Jesus Christ is son of God who came to earth in the flesh to redeem mankind and was called the son of man. Why? Because through believing on Jesus Christ shed blood on the cross, and his resurrection on the third day ascending to heaven, we have been given the privledge, the honor of being accepted by the Father and called Sons of God. Whosoever calls upon the name of the LORD shall be saved. ( read Romans 10: 8,9,10)

This Son of man went to the cross so that all those who believed upon Him would be able to become the Sons of God. Do you understand now, beloved? I am praying for you today that you will not only understand but that the entire redemption story will become a reality in your life, precious Vandal. God loves you so much, you know.

* Final thoughts

Not all who call on the LORD call on the Lord Jesus who died upon the cross for our sins, Vandal.

Jesus is not a new ager. Jesus doesn't "need help or assistance" from new agers aka false teachers with breaking of generational curses. Jesus broke every generational curse that ever happened at the Cross. Thus he said, It is FINISHED. The cross was a finished work. Not a "partial work"... We are saved by faith, not works. We are justified by faith. Not works. If it be of works it is not faith but works. We are saved by faith lest any man or woman should "boast"...........

Jesus doesn't "need help or assistance from new agers" aka a false teachers by adding to His word with unscriptural doctrines of spiritual healing and "how to self help books"...... Jesus gave us our healing at the Cross. By his stripes we "were healed" 1 Peter 2:24 and again read Isaiah 53, it is all there.......... Jesus said, It is Finished. We were healed. WERE. Past tense. When were we healed, spiritually, physically, mentally? At the Cross!

Receive the truth, it shall surely set you free today!

Jesus does not need new agers and false doctrines of demons, followers of false teachers telling us how to gain a deliverance from oppression, evil spirits, demons through new age methodology which is based on a lie. Jesus obtained our deliverance at the cross for us. Again he said, It is finished! When was it finished? At the cross.

Everything you ever needed was obtained at the cross for you, Vandal. EVERYTHING.

I tell you the truth. You need no man, no woman to teach you anything. The Spirit of God will teach you all truth and guide you in the truth. Only read your bible and seek the LORD Jesus. Ask Him to baptize you with the baptism of the Holy Spirit. He will come and teach you all things.

We need to stop looking to lost men and lost women who tell their victims / their prey to listen to and follow yet more lost men and lost women ( false prophets, new age charlatans ) and instead go to the foot of the cross where Jesus has obtained everything we will ever need!

Jesus became a son of man so that you could become a son of God. I pray the Holy Spirit come and draw you to Jesus today. I know He shall surely do it. Do not resist Him. Surrender to the Spirit of God and let Him reveal Jesus Christ to you. Read your bible and follow Christ. Though 10,000 on your right and left deny Christ I pray it not be the case for you. Nor for Joe, nor for any on this board who are coming to the knowledge of the truth even now. Why? Because Jesus died on the Cross for you. Not Joseph Smith, not Benjamin Creme or Lord Matreya or the latest McNutt book. Jesus died on the cross for you because you are that precious to him. You are that precious to him, Vandal. You are all that precious to him!

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

"Until he" meaning the Holy Spirit "be taken out of the way".

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

The Holy Spirit will abide with us forever so if the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way, did God lie if we are still here and yet God said he may abide with us forever?

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

If we are still here and if God doesn't rapture us, did God lie?

However God does it is however He will do it. I will not dispute it one way or the other because it does seem to be a very important teaching to so many, Chuck.

Instead I will tell you what I know to be true. There is a judgment about to be poured out on the whole earth and specificly America - as we are living here - we should address this. Those who have become members of the Illuminati - of new age teachings -of scientologys- of L Ron Hubbard or Mormonism or of any other occultist teachings - have been told that the Christians are going to be wiped off the face of the earth and when that "cleansing" takes place then the new age can go forth. Picture Buddah wearing a Jesus loves you pin. ( another Jesus not the Jesus of the bible ) It is called "The Plan". Those inside the New Age know what "The Plan" is about. ( many maybe not all ) It won't be turning out as they expected. Suffice to say.

At the time of Noah there were perhaps 200 million - 300 million people upon the earth. All perished except for Noah and his family. According to one Bible teacher the Ark was the largest ship ever built up until WWI when they built one larger than the Ark. But that was the first time it had ever been done. I believe like the bible teacher who stated the dimensions / size/ time line of Ark being built that it must have taken many men to build that Ark. Many men. Yet when the flood came they were all shut outside the Ark. The bible declares that the day came when God told Noah go inside the Ark. Then God shut the door. Who shut the door? God did.

When did the time clock start ticking? Enoch begat Methusaleh. Methusaleh lived longer than any other man on the earth. Methusaleh lived for 969 years upon the earth. Then came Lamech and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth. There were giants in the earth in those days ( Genesis 6:4) and also after that, when the sons of God ( fallen angels ) came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. And God saw that the wickedness of man was great upon the earth, and that every imagination was only evil continually.

But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. Gen. 6:8

God always has a remnant, Chuck. God always had a remnant. As it was in the days of Noah?

Will God ransom the wicked through the death of the righteous? He already did that at the cross. Jesus Christ is the righteousness of the redeemed. The wicked who have rejected the One who paid the ransom with His own Shed Blood at the cross? Shall be the ransom for the righteous and the upright in the judgment. The only thing that will be left in America when this is over are those who fear the Lord and are calling upon his name now. The judgment being poured out is to the apostate church and the wicked. Both shall fall headlong into hell.

Question back to you, Chuck. Does God need to remove us from the earth to keep us or can He hide us in the day of the LORD's anger so that it "passover" us? What do you say? Either way I shall not dispute it with you as we both agree that the Lord is able to keep that which is His. He always has been able and He always will be able. Blessed be the name of the LORD.

The time of the Gentiles is now coming to a close. We need to pray for the Gentiles and we also need to continue to pray for the peace of Jerusalem.

 

[hobelim]

Try backing your claims up with a tad bit of evidence. The Bible is clear on the subject. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word WAS God and the Word was "made flesh." (See John 1:1 and 1:14).

John is just establishing that flesh is a metaphor for words, a body of teaching, that Jesus received from God like manna from heaven and gave for the life of the world. Hence eat my flesh,

It is not about God becoming a man. It is about teaching from God coming into the world like a light through a man, Jesus.

and it does not say that the WORD WAS GOD. It says logos was theos, not ho Theos.

In the greek Ho Theos is God. theos without the definite atricle ho before it means like God or godlike.

The word/reason , logos, was with Ho Theos, GOD, and the word/reason was theos, like God; reflective of God.

Nope. You're wrong about that. Let's see what the Bible says about "The Son":

Isaiah 9:6, "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

Matthew 1:23, "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us."

Isaiah 7:14, "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."

The "kicker":

Colossians 1:13-17, "Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."

Christ is eternal. It's always best to let the Bible interpret the Bible. Don't let our petty ideas and opinions get in the way.

The passages you quoted from Isaiah are not about Jesus. and even if it was, virgin is a mistranslation and being called mighty God is not the same thing as being God.

One would have to dismiss the entire OT to profess a belief that God could become a human being.

There never was and never will be a human being who was God or became God either before during or after their human existence.

You may hold this belief but it isn't what Jesus believed about himself. If he did he was insane. That's the way the cookie crumbles


Go and tell my brothers that I am ascending to my Father and your Father, my God and your God. John 20;17

By saying that his God is our God Jesus effectively eliminated any possibility that he claimed to be God or thought of himself as God.

 

[Mr. H.]

God, the Holy Spirit, and "rapture" are man-made things.

Do right by yourselves and those around you or I will kick your fucking asses.

You got that?

Straighten up and fly right.

I have spoken.

 

[Mr. H.]

We are alone, left to our own devices. God, the Holy Spirit, and "rapture" are nothing but crutches and excuses. Man-made bullshit.

You either buck up and fly straight, or I'll kick your asses upside your balls.

And you women- Bitch-slap your worthless men until they tow the line. Get those fuckers straight PLEASE.

I have spoken. It's about time somebody took the reins.

 

[Chuckt]

God always has a remnant, Chuck. God always had a remnant. As it was in the days of Noah?

Will God ransom the wicked through the death of the righteous? He already did that at the cross. Jesus Christ is the righteousness of the redeemed. The wicked who have rejected the One who paid the ransom with His own Shed Blood at the cross? Shall be the ransom for the righteous and the upright in the judgment. The only thing that will be left in America when this is over are those who fear the Lord and are calling upon his name now. The judgment being poured out is to the apostate church and the wicked. Both shall fall headlong into hell.

Question back to you, Chuck. Does God need to remove us from the earth to keep us or can He hide us in the day of the LORD's anger so that it "passover" us? What do you say? Either way I shall not dispute it with you as we both agree that the Lord is able to keep that which is His. He always has been able and He always will be able. Blessed be the name of the LORD.

The time of the Gentiles is now coming to a close. We need to pray for the Gentiles and we also need to continue to pray for the peace of Jerusalem.

[MENTION=40845]Jeremiah[/MENTION],

If the restrainer is taken out of the way who is holding back sin and lawlessness then what is there to protect you?

Who / What is the restrainer in 2 Thessalonians 2:6?

King James 2000 Bible
By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths. -Revelation 9:18
Revelation 9:18 A third of mankind was killed by the three plagues of fire, smoke and sulfur that came out of their mouths.

So you have a third of the population just destroyed by a future plage according to the book of Revelation.

Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
Matthew 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

The kingdoms of the world belong to the devil. Are they not Satan's to do what he will with them? Did Jesus argue with Satan?

Revelation 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

If we are protected then why can they be hurt in Revelation 11:5 and why do they kill the two witnesses in the book of Revelation?

King James Bible
Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.-Revelation 9:21
Revelation 9:21 Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts.

If the church is on earth, why doesn't the Church repent?

Because they are in heaven singing:

Revelation 5:8 ¶ And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
Revelation 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

I believe 24 of the 25 manuscripts has "us" and the fake manuscript that the cults and the post-tribulationists use has "them". The manuscripts went to four geographic corners of the earth that no one group or person had control over so I'm more inclined to believe the one manuscript has been altered for a lie to suit the end times.