If the US healthcare system is the best and socialism is the worst

[Foxfyre]

Funny how conservatives and liberal politicians only seem to agree on policies that enrich their mutual benefactors. Why did liberals adopt a such boneheaded conservative plan?

For the same reason, liberals are now championing the originally Conservative idea of cap and trade, it's a good idea that can work.

Or maybe it's because, when the pretense is peeled away, they're all corporatists with essentially the same goals.

The only commonly shared goal among most is their addiction (created by the ability) to use the people's money to increase their personal power, prestige, influence, and personal wealth. Obama's healthcare reform package takes over 1/6th of the U.S. economy to address a very small fracition of chronically uninsured people. And it gives unprecedented power to the federal government to control all our lives.

Cap and Trade is another program that will further tighten the chains around all our choices, options, opportunities, and freedoms.

For the life of me, I can't understand why this is not alarming to ALL freedom loving Americans.

But too many Americans are now addicted to the free stuff they get or hope for from the government. And are willing to sell their very souls to get it.

 

[Vidi]

For the same reason, liberals are now championing the originally Conservative idea of cap and trade, it's a good idea that can work.

Or maybe it's because, when the pretense is peeled away, they're all corporatists with essentially the same goals.

The only commonly shared goal among most is their addiction (created by the ability) to use the people's money to increase their personal power, prestige, influence, and personal wealth. Obama's healthcare reform package takes over 1/6th of the U.S. economy to address a very small fracition of chronically uninsured people. And it gives unprecedented power to the federal government to control all our lives.

Cap and Trade is another program that will further tighten the chains around all our choices, options, opportunities, and freedoms.

For the life of me, I can't understand why this is not alarming to ALL freedom loving Americans.

But too many Americans are now addicted to the free stuff they get or hope for from the government. And are willing to sell their very souls to get it.

And yet, cap and trade worked when George HW Bush enacted it to deal with the emissions causing acid rain.

It's a good, free market idea that lets private industry actually profit by trading emissions they are no longer using.

And it's a true Conservative idea.

And please tell me where all this "free stuff" can be loaded into my van. If its as prevalent as you all claim, then I a fool working as many hours as I am, paying my bills and building my business.

 

[dblack]

And please tell me where all this "free stuff" can be loaded into my van. If its as prevalent as you all claim, then I a fool working as many hours as I am, paying my bills and building my business.

Ahh.. but it's not for everyone. How would that be any fun?

It works best if you're 'too big to fail'. Or have access to well-organized lobbying campaigns. You should read up on corporatism. It's way cool!

Corporatism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Vidi]

And please tell me where all this "free stuff" can be loaded into my van. If its as prevalent as you all claim, then I a fool working as many hours as I am, paying my bills and building my business.

Ahh.. but it's not for everyone. How would that be any fun?

It works best if you're 'too big to fail'. Or have access to well-organized lobbying campaigns. You should read up on corporatism. It's way cool!

Corporatism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Well dblack, now you're sounding downright...liberal...gasp!

Yes, we switched over to a plutarchy somewhere in the last 30-40 years. Eisenhower warned us but we ignored the warning.

 

[dblack]

And please tell me where all this "free stuff" can be loaded into my van. If its as prevalent as you all claim, then I a fool working as many hours as I am, paying my bills and building my business.

Ahh.. but it's not for everyone. How would that be any fun?

It works best if you're 'too big to fail'. Or have access to well-organized lobbying campaigns. You should read up on corporatism. It's way cool!

Corporatism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Well dblack, now you're sounding downright...liberal...gasp!

Depends on how you define it, I suppose. Just know that, in my view, the liberals in Congress are every bit the corporatists that Republicans are - arguably moreso when you consider stuff like PPACA.

 

[Ropey]

For the same reason, liberals are now championing the originally Conservative idea of cap and trade, it's a good idea that can work.

Or maybe it's because, when the pretense is peeled away, they're all corporatists with essentially the same goals.

The only commonly shared goal among most is their addiction (created by the ability) to use the people's money to increase their personal power, prestige, influence, and personal wealth. Obama's healthcare reform package takes over 1/6th of the U.S. economy to address a very small fracition of chronically uninsured people. And it gives unprecedented power to the federal government to control all our lives.

Cap and Trade is another program that will further tighten the chains around all our choices, options, opportunities, and freedoms.

For the life of me, I can't understand why this is not alarming to ALL freedom loving Americans.

But too many Americans are now addicted to the free stuff they get or hope for from the government. And are willing to sell their very souls to get it.

I'm surprised myself. It seems as if the Republic has already become a nanny state.

 

[Vidi]

Or maybe it's because, when the pretense is peeled away, they're all corporatists with essentially the same goals.

The only commonly shared goal among most is their addiction (created by the ability) to use the people's money to increase their personal power, prestige, influence, and personal wealth. Obama's healthcare reform package takes over 1/6th of the U.S. economy to address a very small fracition of chronically uninsured people. And it gives unprecedented power to the federal government to control all our lives.

Cap and Trade is another program that will further tighten the chains around all our choices, options, opportunities, and freedoms.

For the life of me, I can't understand why this is not alarming to ALL freedom loving Americans.

But too many Americans are now addicted to the free stuff they get or hope for from the government. And are willing to sell their very souls to get it.

I'm surprised myself. It seems as if the Republic has already become a nanny state.

When both sides are advocating intrusive government, how could it not be?

 

[Foxfyre]

Or maybe it's because, when the pretense is peeled away, they're all corporatists with essentially the same goals.

The only commonly shared goal among most is their addiction (created by the ability) to use the people's money to increase their personal power, prestige, influence, and personal wealth. Obama's healthcare reform package takes over 1/6th of the U.S. economy to address a very small fracition of chronically uninsured people. And it gives unprecedented power to the federal government to control all our lives.

Cap and Trade is another program that will further tighten the chains around all our choices, options, opportunities, and freedoms.

For the life of me, I can't understand why this is not alarming to ALL freedom loving Americans.

But too many Americans are now addicted to the free stuff they get or hope for from the government. And are willing to sell their very souls to get it.

And yet, cap and trade worked when George HW Bush enacted it to deal with the emissions causing acid rain.

It's a good, free market idea that lets private industry actually profit by trading emissions they are no longer using.

And it's a true Conservative idea.

And please tell me where all this "free stuff" can be loaded into my van. If its as prevalent as you all claim, then I a fool working as many hours as I am, paying my bills and building my business.

The Bush 43 administration's energy program was about as ghastly as it gets and was something only a radical flaming raging liberal could love. I believe history will show that it was that, plus other not-at-all-conservative programs and initiatives pushed, that cost the GOP their majorities in both houses of Congress in 2006, what sent President Bush's approval ratings into the basement. and what started the first stirrings of what has become the Tea Party movement. But that's another story.

Cap and trade is NOT a conservative concept and never was. It is one of the worst examples of inappropriate government meddling, interference, and imposition of power enabling those in government to exercise the worst kinds of cronyism and thus further enhance their personal power, prestige, influence, and wealth.

 

[Vidi]

The only commonly shared goal among most is their addiction (created by the ability) to use the people's money to increase their personal power, prestige, influence, and personal wealth. Obama's healthcare reform package takes over 1/6th of the U.S. economy to address a very small fracition of chronically uninsured people. And it gives unprecedented power to the federal government to control all our lives.

Cap and Trade is another program that will further tighten the chains around all our choices, options, opportunities, and freedoms.

For the life of me, I can't understand why this is not alarming to ALL freedom loving Americans.

But too many Americans are now addicted to the free stuff they get or hope for from the government. And are willing to sell their very souls to get it.

And yet, cap and trade worked when George HW Bush enacted it to deal with the emissions causing acid rain.

It's a good, free market idea that lets private industry actually profit by trading emissions they are no longer using.

And it's a true Conservative idea.

And please tell me where all this "free stuff" can be loaded into my van. If its as prevalent as you all claim, then I a fool working as many hours as I am, paying my bills and building my business.

The Bush 43 administration's energy program was about as ghastly as it gets and was something only a radical flaming raging liberal could love. I believe history will show that it was that, plus other not-at-all-conservative programs and initiatives pushed, that cost the GOP their majorities in both houses of Congress in 2006, what sent President Bush's approval ratings into the basement. and what started the first stirrings of what has become the Tea Party movement. But that's another story.

Cap and trade is NOT a conservative concept and never was. It is one of the worst examples of inappropriate government meddling, interference, and imposition of power enabling those in government to exercise the worst kinds of cronyism and thus further enhance their personal power, prestige, influence, and wealth.

You're incorrect, Fox.

The Political History of Cap and Trade


Cap and trade, then called emissions trading, was originally brought up to the White House by C Boyden Gray, who served as White House council to George HW Bush and was a member of the Federalist Society.

You can't get anymore Conservative than that.

 

[Ropey]

Book Holden authored in 1977 advocates for extreme totalitarian measures to control the population

John Holdren, Obama's Science Czar, says: Forced abortions and mass sterilization needed to save the planet

 

[Vidi]

Book Holden authored in 1977 advocates for extreme totalitarian measures to control the population

John Holdren, Obama's Science Czar, says: Forced abortions and mass sterilization needed to save the planet

As soon as the legislation is proposed, I'll stand with you to storm the castle.

 

[Ropey]

Book Holden authored in 1977 advocates for extreme totalitarian measures to control the population

John Holdren, Obama's Science Czar, says: Forced abortions and mass sterilization needed to save the planet

As soon as the legislation is proposed, I'll stand with you to storm the castle.

No need to storm the castle. It's enough to see the intentions of those in the castle. Then vote.

Democracy, remember?

 

[Staidhup]

Interesting rant, one should research their systems very carefully prior to making preposterous statements. As for your question as to why they would not be clamoring to adopt our system can be summed up as follows, once you give a child a sucker try taking it back. Time once again to do some research about quality of care, timeliness, availability, and patient care. Socialized medicine is one step toward government mandated euthanasia, but heck they will pump you full of morphine to make the ride that much easier. If your young it's great, but if your retired or in your 50's it's another story, get in line and take a number and get the facts. Oh by the way have you ever researched mortality and survival rates in these wonderful countries? Apparently not.

 

[dblack]

I'm surprised myself. It seems as if the Republic has already become a nanny state.

I surprised so few people 'get' that we're being played by both parties. They're tag-teaming us right into the ground. Even here were people are supposedly paying attention to politics we waste so much time and energy playing the coke-pepsi, phony team sport bullshit that pretends that Republicans and Democrats aren't just two sides of the same coin.

 

[Ropey]

I'm surprised myself. It seems as if the Republic has already become a nanny state.

I surprised so few people 'get' that we're being played by both parties. They're tag-teaming us right into the ground. Even here were people are supposedly paying attention to politics we waste so much time and energy playing the coke-pepsi, phony team sport bullshit that pretends that Republicans and Democrats aren't just two sides of the same coin.

Conspiracy Theories - US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

 

[dblack]

I'm surprised myself. It seems as if the Republic has already become a nanny state.

I surprised so few people 'get' that we're being played by both parties. They're tag-teaming us right into the ground. Even here were people are supposedly paying attention to politics we waste so much time and energy playing the coke-pepsi, phony team sport bullshit that pretends that Republicans and Democrats aren't just two sides of the same coin.

Conspiracy Theories - US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

I'm not saying there's any conspiracy. It's just the way it works out. They're both working for the same goals (more power) and driven toward the same policies for that reason. In addition, they have collaborated on creating a wide range of legal and process barrier preventing alternative parties from gaining any momentum.

Simply paying attention to who funds the major parties - and observing that the major donors are the same on both sides - gives indication how little difference there is between them.

 

[Foxfyre]

And yet, cap and trade worked when George HW Bush enacted it to deal with the emissions causing acid rain.

It's a good, free market idea that lets private industry actually profit by trading emissions they are no longer using.

And it's a true Conservative idea.

And please tell me where all this "free stuff" can be loaded into my van. If its as prevalent as you all claim, then I a fool working as many hours as I am, paying my bills and building my business.

The Bush 43 administration's energy program was about as ghastly as it gets and was something only a radical flaming raging liberal could love. I believe history will show that it was that, plus other not-at-all-conservative programs and initiatives pushed, that cost the GOP their majorities in both houses of Congress in 2006, what sent President Bush's approval ratings into the basement. and what started the first stirrings of what has become the Tea Party movement. But that's another story.

Cap and trade is NOT a conservative concept and never was. It is one of the worst examples of inappropriate government meddling, interference, and imposition of power enabling those in government to exercise the worst kinds of cronyism and thus further enhance their personal power, prestige, influence, and wealth.

You're incorrect, Fox.

The Political History of Cap and Trade


Cap and trade, then called emissions trading, was originally brought up to the White House by C Boyden Gray, who served as White House council to George HW Bush and was a member of the Federalist Society.

You can't get anymore Conservative than that.

The fact that a horse sometimes acts like a jackass doesn't make the jackass a horse. President George H.W. Bush's tax increase on the 'rich' wasn't a conservative concept either and cost him the 1992 election.

I don't judge concepts by how people identify themselves. I judge concepts on the principles that define modern American conservatism and liberalism. Cap and Trade, no matter how it is dressed up or who proposes it or who supports it, is not a conservative concept.

 

[Ropey]

I surprised so few people 'get' that we're being played by both parties. They're tag-teaming us right into the ground. Even here were people are supposedly paying attention to politics we waste so much time and energy playing the coke-pepsi, phony team sport bullshit that pretends that Republicans and Democrats aren't just two sides of the same coin.

Conspiracy Theories - US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

I'm not saying there's any conspiracy. It's just the way it works out. They're both working for the same goals (more power) and driven toward the same policies for that reason. In addition, they have collaborated on creating a wide range of legal and process barrier preventing alternative parties from gaining any momentum.

Simply paying attention to who funds the major parties - and observing that the major donors are the same on both sides - gives indication how little difference there is between them.

All you are doing now is defining a very broad statement of party politics. Both sides are lobbied because hedging the bets is a good Capitalist method. I know I hedge mine.

Democrats and Republicans have far different political platforms.

 

[dblack]

Conspiracy Theories - US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

I'm not saying there's any conspiracy. It's just the way it works out. They're both working for the same goals (more power) and driven toward the same policies for that reason. In addition, they have collaborated on creating a wide range of legal and process barrier preventing alternative parties from gaining any momentum.

Simply paying attention to who funds the major parties - and observing that the major donors are the same on both sides - gives indication how little difference there is between them.

All you are doing now is defining a very broad statement of party politics. Both sides are lobbied because hedging the bets is a good Capitalist method. I know I hedge mine.

Democrats and Republicans have far different political platforms.

And enact far different policies? Seriously?

 

[Ropey]

I'm not saying there's any conspiracy. It's just the way it works out. They're both working for the same goals (more power) and driven toward the same policies for that reason. In addition, they have collaborated on creating a wide range of legal and process barrier preventing alternative parties from gaining any momentum.

Simply paying attention to who funds the major parties - and observing that the major donors are the same on both sides - gives indication how little difference there is between them.

All you are doing now is defining a very broad statement of party politics. Both sides are lobbied because hedging the bets is a good Capitalist method. I know I hedge mine.

Democrats and Republicans have far different political platforms.

And enact far different policies? Seriously?

Of course they put forward far different policies which is why majorities are mostly necessary and why the fight over a legislating judiciary.

Enacting policy is a horse of a different color.