If this is true, we are in trouble...

[AzogtheDefiler]

Life is way more expensive. My parents got their house, which is 2x the size of mine for 25% of the cost. The cable bill back then was like $50. Now I pay $250. There was no cell phone bill. Now I pay $350. Car prices and gas prices have skyrocketed. College tuition and food costs are way up. Middle class gets squeezed. Wealthy don’t care and the poor get enough Govt support to continuously game the system.

You pay 600 a month for cable and a cell phone?

Get HULU and a Trac phone

I have six lines on my phone and no, I like my cable but thanks. I know there are alternatives. I also have Amazon Prime and Netflix.

Then stop whining how expensive it is.

Whining? I am stating facts. And these are just some of the expenses. You picked out two...seriously?

And no one is forcing you to spend so much on things like cell phones and cable.
And yes everything is more expensive than it was 40 years ago tell me at what point in time was that never true?

Seems to me the middle class is getting squeezed because most of them live well in excess of their means. If your parents were middle class I'll bet you that they didn't spend extravagantly on things like phones and TV but you do and you're saying it's because you're getting squeezed?

Cell phones were not readily available and cable was cheaper. Mostly housing was much cheaper that was the delta. Additionally school sports were free and I pay $500 per kid per sport excluding unis and special events. Taxes and gas are much higher. Tuition was 75% cheaper at colleges. You may attack me all you like but life is waaaay more expensive now. Few companies still offer pensions. My ex employer paid for my MBA. That is rarely available now. Oh and you can go f@ck your sanctimonious self.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Life is way more expensive. My parents got their house, which is 2x the size of mine for 25% of the cost. The cable bill back then was like $50. Now I pay $250. There was no cell phone bill. Now I pay $350. Car prices and gas prices have skyrocketed. College tuition and food costs are way up. Middle class gets squeezed. Wealthy don’t care and the poor get enough Govt support to continuously game the system.

You pay 600 a month for cable and a cell phone?

Get HULU and a Trac phone

I have six lines on my phone and no, I like my cable but thanks. I know there are alternatives. I also have Amazon Prime and Netflix.

Then stop whining how expensive it is.

he wasn't complaining.

Sure as hell sounded like it to me

I pay 600 a month for cell phones and cable and my parents never paid that much

Statement of fact. It’s not whining. If I complained that I think it should cost less or that the government should pay for me then it would be.

 

[eagle1462010]

Debase your currency you destroy your country. You cause the buying power of your poor to make decent living. Cost your nation 364 Billion in interest payments on the debt. This is unsustainable. It is the road to disaster.

The USSR collapsed financially. We are doing the same. The only reason we haven't folded yet is that we have the World's reserve currency based on our. That value has died. If the Depegs our currency to another we are done .

This is about the survival of our nation. Nothing being discussed here matters more than that. People ignore it to our peril.

Globalist want a new currency. Basket. They will take us under.

There's a ton of evidence that Welfare spending stimulates the economy.

The 3 biggest economic growth periods in USA history of the 20th Century all happened during implementation of Welfare programs.

https://worthwhile.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451688169e2017ee45ba838970d-pi

Harding,

Sheppard–Towner Act - Wikipedia

FDR.

Social Security Act - Wikipedia

LBJ.

Great Society - Wikipedia

We don't have the money to continue down this path.

That's a cliff down the road. Hit the breaks or go to the abyss

Yeah, because Capitalists continue to ship tax base to China, Vietnam, and Mexico, be it the taxes on the Corporate facilities, or the taxes on the workers incomes.

Furthermore, there's a bunch of Capitalists hiring Illegals who take more out of the economy, than they pay into the economy in taxes.

The chamber of commerce buys both parties. They want open borders for cheap labor. They lobby both sides.

The Chamber of Commerce is the heart of Capitalism in America, no?

Heart of the Globalist here.................do not assign Croney Capitalism with Real Capitalism.

 

[Foxfyre]

we do reward our athletes and entertainers with ridiculous amounts of money for contributing nothing to society. that needs to stop. CEO pay in some cases is also ridiculous and that also should be curtailed. BUT how do we do that in a free society?

You don't stop any of it. In a free society, we are free to give our money to whoever we desire.

Well said.

Everybody in private society is worth in economic terms precisely what profit--not income but PROFIT--he/she can generate through one's own business or the value he/she has to an employer.

A CEO is paid according to his ability/expertise in generating profits for the owners/share holders of the corporation. A pro athlete is paid according to his ability to draw the fans, sell the beer and peanuts, market the paraphernalia, etc. and therefore generate profits for the owners/shareholders of the franchise. An actor or actress or other entertainer is paid according to his ability to draw patrons to the box office, sell CDs, DVDs, blu rays, or entice viewers to watch that rakes in the advertising revenues.

And each of these kinds of activities creates opportunities for others--designers, construction workers, behind the scenes employees, those providing raw materials, transportation, or whole products for resale, janitors etc--who in turn perhaps unknowingly provide other opportunities for people to profit. Each is working for his/her own benefit and may not be even conscious of 99.9 percent of what others contribute, but the process results in countless thousands/millions of people all unwittingly working together to make that football game or movie or concert or corporation possible, even successful.

And yes it may seem obscene that a CEO or entertainer earns millions while teachers, police officers, and other public servants earn so little in comparison. But if we think by reducing the amount that CEO or entertainer earns will in any way improve the situation for teachers or police officers, we are sadly mistaken. For by making the rich less rich, we will invariably reduce the resources available for the less rich.

You can rob the rich to pay the poor for only so long before there is no money to pay anybody. You simply cannot hurt or punish the rich without also hurting and punishing the much less rich.

I can't think of people who "CURRENTLY" cause more mayhem for the average US worker than business managers big or small.

The small business managers tend to hire illegals in mass.

The big business managers tend to hire people living in China first.

This is the problem people.

They are cutting our throats because hiring foreigners for less pays them more at society's expense.

Plain in simply the modern CEO is a parasite who devours society's well being piece by piece.

They simply deserve to be paid in dirt.

Sorry but those you deem as 'parasites' are simply responding to the U.S. systems that people who think like you insist on putting in place. If you allow the free market to work, and allow people to run their businesses in the most efficient way short of violating existing RICO and anti trust laws, you will see a lot less companies going overseas to do business. In fact the President's current reforms have made it much more attractive to do business here and we are beginning to see more companies coming back to America than we are seeing leaving America.

If the Democrats regain power, we will again see a business unfriendly climate that sends businesses elsewhere.

 

[Foxfyre]

we do reward our athletes and entertainers with ridiculous amounts of money for contributing nothing to society. that needs to stop. CEO pay in some cases is also ridiculous and that also should be curtailed. BUT how do we do that in a free society?

You don't stop any of it. In a free society, we are free to give our money to whoever we desire.

Well said.

Everybody in private society is worth in economic terms precisely what profit--not income but PROFIT--he/she can generate through one's own business or the value he/she has to an employer.

A CEO is paid according to his ability/expertise in generating profits for the owners/share holders of the corporation. A pro athlete is paid according to his ability to draw the fans, sell the beer and peanuts, market the paraphernalia, etc. and therefore generate profits for the owners/shareholders of the franchise. An actor or actress or other entertainer is paid according to his ability to draw patrons to the box office, sell CDs, DVDs, blu rays, or entice viewers to watch that rakes in the advertising revenues.

And each of these kinds of activities creates opportunities for others--designers, construction workers, behind the scenes employees, those providing raw materials, transportation, or whole products for resale, janitors etc--who in turn perhaps unknowingly provide other opportunities for people to profit. Each is working for his/her own benefit and may not be even conscious of 99.9 percent of what others contribute, but the process results in countless thousands/millions of people all unwittingly working together to make that football game or movie or concert or corporation possible, even successful.

And yes it may seem obscene that a CEO or entertainer earns millions while teachers, police officers, and other public servants earn so little in comparison. But if we think by reducing the amount that CEO or entertainer earns will in any way improve the situation for teachers or police officers, we are sadly mistaken. For by making the rich less rich, we will invariably reduce the resources available for the less rich.

You can rob the rich to pay the poor for only so long before there is no money to pay anybody. You simply cannot hurt or punish the rich without also hurting and punishing the much less rich.

Who's is robbing the rich?

Those of you who demand that the rich become less rich, who advocate confiscating more of what the rich have, those who think the country or the world would be somehow better off if the rich were not so rich. You cannot accomplish that without forcibly taking what the rich have earned or legally acquired.

 

[gipper]

That is the problem. The government does very little for the middle class and poor, but they do a shit load for the extreme wealthy.

It is a racket the Mafia can only dream of.

The government has spent trillions of dollars on the poor and the government would not have those trillions of dollars to spend on the poor without those 'extremely wealthy.' However, the more trillions we spend on the poor, the more 'poor' we seem to have with us, and we have many more people who are now entrenched in poverty and training subsequent generations to live in poverty.

Benjamin Franklin once wisely observed after extensive travel to other lands:
“I am for doing good to the poor, but...I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed...that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.”

The Founders to a man believed the central government should not be in the business of any form of charity but rather should facilitate individual freedom and ability to take initiative as the best policy to encourage prosperity for all. The Constitution gives the government absolutely no authority to take money from those who earn it and give it to those who do not. That is how it was intended so that excess authority--dictatorship--would not be given to the central government.

True but not so much after the Grest Recession. While the wealthy pay most of the tax, they also get most of the benefits.

I am not seeing that. The wealthy don't qualify for earned income credit, SNAP, and more often than not pay taxes on a much larger percentage of their income than those of the middle class who pay taxes. Roughly 50% of wage earners pay little or nothing in taxes. You can't tell me the wealthy get much advantage, let along most of the advantages.

Did you read my OP? The government enriches the extreme wealthy with all sorts of goodies and sweet heart deal. It is the American Way.

Perhaps you can mention something the government does for the extremely wealthy that any one of us is not allowed to have?

Do you really think you get the same treatment from government that Bezos, Buffet, Gates, the dip shit from Facebook, the Google dorks, etc?

Does Amazon even pay taxes? Yet Bezos is the richest man in the world. Can you do that?

If you give politicians lots of money, don't you think they return the favor somehow? This kind of shit has been going on since Dishonest Abe did deals with the railroads.

You asking such a question does you no favors. After what the government and Fed did after the Great Recession. They merely threw money at the extreme wealthy. Where did all that $20 trillion go?

 

[gipper]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

This stuff has been true for a long time

Americans do not save
Do not like to save

Yeah it is all the fault of poor and middle class. Government, establishment, political parties, capitalism, the ruling class are blameless.

LMFAO!

The government establishment, political parties, capitalism, the ruling class never made me spend more than I make
The government establishment, political parties, capitalism, the ruling class never stopped me from saving money

Stop blaming everyone else for your failures

It has nothing to do with saving or spending. It has everything to do with opportunity, freedom, and justice for all.

I’ve done extraordinarily well but unlike you, I care about my fellow man and the future of the country.

When enormous wealth is obtained by a small elite, opportunity, freedom, and justice are diminished for the vast majority of the people. We are witnessing it first hand but some like you, are blind to reality.

Savings leads to opportunity.

Saving leads to financial freedom

If you save your money you will be in control of your own fate.

So if you really cared about your fellow man you would be telling them to save their money and not denigrating them by telling them that the fucking government has to come to their aid.

You did well but do you really think everyone else is so pathetic they can't do as well or better than you unless the fucking government steps in?

I'm afraid you will never understand. Many Americans must endure tough circumstances in their youth. Their parents aren't around or harm them in some way. They attend pubic schools that teach them nothing. They are exposed to all sorts of dysfunction, yet you stay tough it out. WTF is wrong with you?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It's not the system, it's the politicians. They voted themselves the keys to the country between Carter and Reagan. Notice the decline began around then, as did the price hike for medical care.

This comment inspired me to tell a personal story.

Back in the early 80's I was a repairman for home medical equipment. At the time, UPS was on strike, and we were erecting a pharmacy for our home patients. We hired a pharmacist to oversee the construction because she was well versed on government requirements.

After our weekly Monday morning meeting, we do as we always did which was gather around the coffee pot in the warehouse. Somebody brought up the UPS strike, and our newest employee, the pharmacist, walked away abruptly without saying a word. We kind of looked at each other like "WTF did we say?"

As usual, I was the last person to leave the coffee area. She came back with her pharmacist magazine in her hand. She shoved it at me and demand I read the section she highlighted about the UPS strike.

What the article said is that the tenured UPS drivers made between 50 and 55K a year. A pharmacist made about 60 to 65. In anger she said "Do you know what I had to go through to become a pharmacist? Do you know what my parents had to go through? How in hell can these people be on strike earning that kind of money? If I had known this, I would be delivering packages here instead of doing all this shit! I'm the one that should be on strike--not them!"

Her point was well taken. How could we drag people into the medical field (at the time) when it paid better to work for the UAW, UPS, the steel mills, just a number of jobs that unions dominated at the time? There was only one way, and that was to increase wages for medical personnel. That's why a pharmacist today makes about 120K a year.

You seem (as usual) to be misinformed.

A tenured UPS driver TODAY makes $60K+/-. A Doctorate degreed Pharmacist TODAY makes $120k.

I know. You know everything and I imagined the entire situation.

 

[Cellblock2429]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

Its pretty much the same over here. I will also add in zero hours contracts. A large section of society does not earn enough to save for a pension and this will have a huge impact in 20 years or so.

Inequality is the big problem. Capital exploits the differences to drive down wages. Strike for better pay or conditions and we will move your job to India where they will work for half your pay. How to break the cycle is a big conundrum.

It's not a big conundrum.

All that needs to happen is to take away all the tax benefits of moving jobs out of America and impose huge penalties to move our jobs to low wage nations.

Impose huge penalties in the form of huge taxes on all companies that move our jobs to other nations. Make it very expensive to move our jobs out of our nation. The republicans enacted tax laws that reward companies for moving out of our nation in the reagan years when reagan was sending our jobs to Japan. When the House was in democratic hands in 2007 they passed a bill that removed tax benefits for moving our jobs to other nations. The republicans filibustered it when it got to the senate. republicans won't do one thing to penalize any company that moves our jobs to other nations.

When greedy CEOs and business owners see that it's more expensive to move our jobs out of the nation they will stop doing it.

Tariffs won't stop it. Giving corporations and business huge tax cuts won't stop it.

Imposing huge penalties will.

However, I thought trump and republicans have been declaring us at full employment with 3.7% unemployment. Why would anyone worry about jobs being sent off shore if we have such low unemployment?

By the way, the unemployment rate was 4.7% when Obama left office. trump has lowered the unemployment rate by 1% in nearly 2 years, yet republicans and conservatives believe he's responsible for such a low unemployment rate.

When any republican lowers the unemployment rate from 10% down to 4.7% I'll give them credit for it. Yet I've not seem any republican president do that in the last over 20 years.

The Capitalist Republican solution is to have Americans compete with China's wages.

Apparently we deserve less as a society.

/——-/ 100% pure unadulterated liberal pigshyt.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

we do reward our athletes and entertainers with ridiculous amounts of money for contributing nothing to society. that needs to stop. CEO pay in some cases is also ridiculous and that also should be curtailed. BUT how do we do that in a free society?

You don't stop any of it. In a free society, we are free to give our money to whoever we desire.

Well said.

Everybody in private society is worth in economic terms precisely what profit--not income but PROFIT--he/she can generate through one's own business or the value he/she has to an employer.

A CEO is paid according to his ability/expertise in generating profits for the owners/share holders of the corporation. A pro athlete is paid according to his ability to draw the fans, sell the beer and peanuts, market the paraphernalia, etc. and therefore generate profits for the owners/shareholders of the franchise. An actor or actress or other entertainer is paid according to his ability to draw patrons to the box office, sell CDs, DVDs, blu rays, or entice viewers to watch that rakes in the advertising revenues.

And each of these kinds of activities creates opportunities for others--designers, construction workers, behind the scenes employees, those providing raw materials, transportation, or whole products for resale, janitors etc--who in turn perhaps unknowingly provide other opportunities for people to profit. Each is working for his/her own benefit and may not be even conscious of 99.9 percent of what others contribute, but the process results in countless thousands/millions of people all unwittingly working together to make that football game or movie or concert or corporation possible, even successful.

And yes it may seem obscene that a CEO or entertainer earns millions while teachers, police officers, and other public servants earn so little in comparison. But if we think by reducing the amount that CEO or entertainer earns will in any way improve the situation for teachers or police officers, we are sadly mistaken. For by making the rich less rich, we will invariably reduce the resources available for the less rich.

You can rob the rich to pay the poor for only so long before there is no money to pay anybody. You simply cannot hurt or punish the rich without also hurting and punishing the much less rich.

People can complain all they want, but we are not all paid by one entity. If we were, athletes would be making about 50K a year and firemen about 200K a year.

People complain about CEO pay all the time, but I've yet to talk to one that ever tried to become a CEO themselves. They watch too many movies where a CEO is a guy with a super hot secretary and sits in his huge office all day practicing putts. The grass is always greener.......

The reason CEO's get paid what they do is because few could actually do their jobs. It often requires frequent moves for them and their families. They are often out of town a lot. Nobody graduates college as a high paid CEO. You have to work your way up to it.

As for wealth, Dr. Walter E Williams explained it best when he was teaching college. Kids would often ask him what was the key to financial success? He said the answer is simple: please your fellow man.

If you made a great hamburger, you could open up your own little hamburger stand. As more people come for your burgers, you open up a restaurant and please more of your fellow man. If you branch out into franchises, you please your fellow man by millions, and the financial rewards will follow.

Or perhaps you write good songs. So you start singing your songs at local bars. You please your fellow man by the dozens. Some talent scout finds you and signs you to a recording contract, and you please your fellow man by the thousands. Your songs become a hit, and now you are selling out concerts that seat 30,000 to 45,000 people, and you are pleasing your fellow man by the millions, thus the financial rewards follow.

 

[Cellblock2429]

So, you have nothing but cliche's and memes and a little bit of envy. Not much of an argument

I can debate the daylights out of the issue DarkOne

And the USMB has posters who are far beyond my sophmoric take on it all

Myself, i cling to what my folks told me over a 1/2 century ago

The 'rich get richer, get poor get poorer in America'

the specifics, well they are all about who can digest the details and have the horsepower to keep up, believe me i do struggle at times

Unfortunately , few can follow, do the math, or rise above their petty partisan views

~S~

/——/ The poor in South America risk their lives to have the higher standard of living that the poor in America has.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So how do you "fix" the problem of high college costs, place a government limit on what they can charge?

What caused the problem is that manual labor has less value than it did before mostly because of automation. Because of that, kids can't get out of school and make a good enough living to buy a house and support a family. The only way to do that is to have a higher education.

The alternative to that is trade school. You won't make as much as somebody with a college degree and you may have to work with your hands, but you also don't have the college bills either.

Automation increases productivity, and thus more production, and therefor WEALTH created.

That wealth was never seen, because of Illegals, because of outsourcing, because of monopolies laying people off, and raising prices.

This is CRAPitalist America, and it's even worse than Soviet Russia.

At least in Soviet Russia they didn't funnel all the jobs into foreigners hands who despise them.

I don't see how we're not going to "NATURALLY" collapse in the near future, if we don't end up killing each other in the streets first, and therefor "ARTIFICIALLY" collapse.

I'm glad I'll be off this planet by then; at least out of the workforce. I wouldn't want to be a person in the future with no aptitude to earn a higher education and try to make it on manual labor alone.

Millennials earn 20% less than Babyboomers did at the same age, Millennials have a net-worth 50% less than Babyboomers did at the same age.
(Of course adjusting for inflation AKA Real Wages)

This is startling, and shows the system that we have isn't working.

That can be attributed to a lot of things. For instance perhaps you read the conversation between Manonthestreet and I. Right now our industry needs over 30,000 more drivers that they can't find. They are turning to foreigners to take these jobs Americans won't do. And I can tell you some of those are pretty good paying jobs if you're willing to do the work.

So I think attitude has something to do with it as well. As a baby boomer myself, I can testify several times I had more than one job, or a job that I worked on Saturday as well. At one time I had three jobs. I'm no hero because several of my friends did the same thing. In fact one very close friend works at the company I do. He's been working two full-time jobs for over 30 years now.

You don't see that kind of effort to get ahead out of the millennials as you did in our generation. When we were younger all we thought about was money. How to make more, how to get a better job, work or hours was no hurdle for us.

The trucking industry has always been short of drivers because of the job itself. It's being exacerbated now because with ELD's (electronic logging devices) making it difficult, if not impossible, to cheat on HOS by playing logbook roulette.

The other two factors are detainment at shippers and/or receivers and receiving pay for the load.

In my mind, drivers that are detained should receive a $100.00 comm check after two hours of detainment for each hour and part of an hour of detainment.

Pay should be within 24 hours of a load. Factoring should be illegal.

Actually the problem with trucking is being away from home all the time and government. Government makes it harder and harder for us to make a living because truck drivers are not entitled to constitutional rights. So we are constantly getting pulled over, searched, inspected, and then handed a warning or even a ticket for stupid shit that doesn't mean anything. It's called quotas.

I'm a local driver so I'm home every night, but OTR guys have to tolerate these assholes almost every week. Now instead of having DOT (Department of Transportation) police hassling you, they are training state troopers to do the job because only a trooper can issue a ticket. DOT guys can only give you a warning. Now they are all over the place, and the more of them you have, the more you are likely to get pulled over. When I first started out over 25 years ago, you'd run across a DOT guy once every month. Now you come across 10 or more a day.

If you want to ruin a good thing, just get more government involved.

Most drivers do get layover time after one hour.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

Its pretty much the same over here. I will also add in zero hours contracts. A large section of society does not earn enough to save for a pension and this will have a huge impact in 20 years or so.

Inequality is the big problem. Capital exploits the differences to drive down wages. Strike for better pay or conditions and we will move your job to India where they will work for half your pay. How to break the cycle is a big conundrum.

It's not a big conundrum.

All that needs to happen is to take away all the tax benefits of moving jobs out of America and impose huge penalties to move our jobs to low wage nations.

Impose huge penalties in the form of huge taxes on all companies that move our jobs to other nations. Make it very expensive to move our jobs out of our nation. The republicans enacted tax laws that reward companies for moving out of our nation in the reagan years when reagan was sending our jobs to Japan. When the House was in democratic hands in 2007 they passed a bill that removed tax benefits for moving our jobs to other nations. The republicans filibustered it when it got to the senate. republicans won't do one thing to penalize any company that moves our jobs to other nations.

When greedy CEOs and business owners see that it's more expensive to move our jobs out of the nation they will stop doing it.

Tariffs won't stop it. Giving corporations and business huge tax cuts won't stop it.

Imposing huge penalties will.

However, I thought trump and republicans have been declaring us at full employment with 3.7% unemployment. Why would anyone worry about jobs being sent off shore if we have such low unemployment?

By the way, the unemployment rate was 4.7% when Obama left office. trump has lowered the unemployment rate by 1% in nearly 2 years, yet republicans and conservatives believe he's responsible for such a low unemployment rate.

When any republican lowers the unemployment rate from 10% down to 4.7% I'll give them credit for it. Yet I've not seem any republican president do that in the last over 20 years.

The answer is a lot simpler than that. Eliminate inequality.

What inequality do you speak of? We all get paid what we are worth.

 

[Foxfyre]

The government has spent trillions of dollars on the poor and the government would not have those trillions of dollars to spend on the poor without those 'extremely wealthy.' However, the more trillions we spend on the poor, the more 'poor' we seem to have with us, and we have many more people who are now entrenched in poverty and training subsequent generations to live in poverty.

Benjamin Franklin once wisely observed after extensive travel to other lands:
“I am for doing good to the poor, but...I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed...that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.”

The Founders to a man believed the central government should not be in the business of any form of charity but rather should facilitate individual freedom and ability to take initiative as the best policy to encourage prosperity for all. The Constitution gives the government absolutely no authority to take money from those who earn it and give it to those who do not. That is how it was intended so that excess authority--dictatorship--would not be given to the central government.

True but not so much after the Grest Recession. While the wealthy pay most of the tax, they also get most of the benefits.

I am not seeing that. The wealthy don't qualify for earned income credit, SNAP, and more often than not pay taxes on a much larger percentage of their income than those of the middle class who pay taxes. Roughly 50% of wage earners pay little or nothing in taxes. You can't tell me the wealthy get much advantage, let along most of the advantages.

Did you read my OP? The government enriches the extreme wealthy with all sorts of goodies and sweet heart deal. It is the American Way.

Perhaps you can mention something the government does for the extremely wealthy that any one of us is not allowed to have?

Do you really think you get the same treatment from government that Bezos, Buffet, Gates, the dip shit from Facebook, the Google dorks, etc?

Does Amazon even pay taxes? Yet Bezos is the richest man in the world. Can you do that?

If you give politicians lots of money, don't you think they return the favor somehow? This kind of shit has been going on since Dishonest Abe did deals with the railroads.

You asking such a question does you no favors. After what the government and Fed did after the Great Recession. They merely threw money at the extreme wealthy. Where did all that $20 trillion go?

Yes, the exact same rules apply to you and me that apply to Bezos or anybody else doing business. If you don't like the rules that he plays by, then elect people to Congress who will change the rules. So far nobody on either side of the aisle seems inclined to make those changes. Why? Because such changes will hurt the little guy far more than they will hurt somebody like Bezos who already has more money than he will spend in a lifetime no matter what he buys.

The President is closing the silly loopholes available to the rich and famous such as those that create massive trade imbalances. And the left screams all manner of criticism and obscenities at him every time he does. But to cap the amount of profit any person is allowed to earn or any other measures that punish the rich for being rich is going to hurt the poorest among us the most. And that is a fact.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

we do reward our athletes and entertainers with ridiculous amounts of money for contributing nothing to society. that needs to stop. CEO pay in some cases is also ridiculous and that also should be curtailed. BUT how do we do that in a free society?

You don't stop any of it. In a free society, we are free to give our money to whoever we desire.

Well said.

Everybody in private society is worth in economic terms precisely what profit--not income but PROFIT--he/she can generate through one's own business or the value he/she has to an employer.

A CEO is paid according to his ability/expertise in generating profits for the owners/share holders of the corporation. A pro athlete is paid according to his ability to draw the fans, sell the beer and peanuts, market the paraphernalia, etc. and therefore generate profits for the owners/shareholders of the franchise. An actor or actress or other entertainer is paid according to his ability to draw patrons to the box office, sell CDs, DVDs, blu rays, or entice viewers to watch that rakes in the advertising revenues.

And each of these kinds of activities creates opportunities for others--designers, construction workers, behind the scenes employees, those providing raw materials, transportation, or whole products for resale, janitors etc--who in turn perhaps unknowingly provide other opportunities for people to profit. Each is working for his/her own benefit and may not be even conscious of 99.9 percent of what others contribute, but the process results in countless thousands/millions of people all unwittingly working together to make that football game or movie or concert or corporation possible, even successful.

And yes it may seem obscene that a CEO or entertainer earns millions while teachers, police officers, and other public servants earn so little in comparison. But if we think by reducing the amount that CEO or entertainer earns will in any way improve the situation for teachers or police officers, we are sadly mistaken. For by making the rich less rich, we will invariably reduce the resources available for the less rich.

You can rob the rich to pay the poor for only so long before there is no money to pay anybody. You simply cannot hurt or punish the rich without also hurting and punishing the much less rich.

I can't think of people who "CURRENTLY" cause more mayhem for the average US worker than business managers big or small.

The small business managers tend to hire illegals in mass.

The big business managers tend to hire people living in China first.

This is the problem people.

They are cutting our throats because hiring foreigners for less pays them more at society's expense.

Plain in simply the modern CEO is a parasite who devours society's well being piece by piece.

They simply deserve to be paid in dirt.

Sorry but those you deem as 'parasites' are simply responding to the U.S. systems that people who think like you insist on putting in place. If you allow the free market to work, and allow people to run their businesses in the most efficient way short of violating existing RICO and anti trust laws, you will see a lot less companies going overseas to do business. In fact the President's current reforms have made it much more attractive to do business here and we are beginning to see more companies coming back to America than we are seeing leaving America.

If the Democrats regain power, we will again see a business unfriendly climate that sends businesses elsewhere.

LOL, Unions went down significantly, real wages went down, productivity went way up, and yet it's all NOT ENOUGH for the gouging parasites called CEO's.

The problem is called greed, they will never be satisified with what they have here, they can make more overseas hiring people for less to undermine our economy.

That's the problem, it's un-American, and the exact opposite of patriotism.

As for Trump, here's the Trump economy in a nutshell.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

Its pretty much the same over here. I will also add in zero hours contracts. A large section of society does not earn enough to save for a pension and this will have a huge impact in 20 years or so.

Inequality is the big problem. Capital exploits the differences to drive down wages. Strike for better pay or conditions and we will move your job to India where they will work for half your pay. How to break the cycle is a big conundrum.

It's not a big conundrum.

All that needs to happen is to take away all the tax benefits of moving jobs out of America and impose huge penalties to move our jobs to low wage nations.

Impose huge penalties in the form of huge taxes on all companies that move our jobs to other nations. Make it very expensive to move our jobs out of our nation. The republicans enacted tax laws that reward companies for moving out of our nation in the reagan years when reagan was sending our jobs to Japan. When the House was in democratic hands in 2007 they passed a bill that removed tax benefits for moving our jobs to other nations. The republicans filibustered it when it got to the senate. republicans won't do one thing to penalize any company that moves our jobs to other nations.

When greedy CEOs and business owners see that it's more expensive to move our jobs out of the nation they will stop doing it.

Tariffs won't stop it. Giving corporations and business huge tax cuts won't stop it.

Imposing huge penalties will.

However, I thought trump and republicans have been declaring us at full employment with 3.7% unemployment. Why would anyone worry about jobs being sent off shore if we have such low unemployment?

By the way, the unemployment rate was 4.7% when Obama left office. trump has lowered the unemployment rate by 1% in nearly 2 years, yet republicans and conservatives believe he's responsible for such a low unemployment rate.

When any republican lowers the unemployment rate from 10% down to 4.7% I'll give them credit for it. Yet I've not seem any republican president do that in the last over 20 years.

The Capitalist Republican solution is to have Americans compete with China's wages.

Apparently we deserve less as a society.

No, but we can't have unions forcing companies to grossly overpay their workers while Chinese make what they do. You can't compete that way, and outside of government, unions are now a thing of the past.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

All that needs to happen is to take away all the tax benefits of moving jobs out of America and impose huge penalties to move our jobs to low wage nations.

Impose huge penalties in the form of huge taxes on all companies that move our jobs to other nations. Make it very expensive to move our jobs out of our nation. The republicans enacted tax laws that reward companies for moving out of our nation in the reagan years when reagan was sending our jobs to Japan. When the House was in democratic hands in 2007 they passed a bill that removed tax benefits for moving our jobs to other nations. The republicans filibustered it when it got to the senate. republicans won't do one thing to penalize any company that moves our jobs to other nations.

Urban legend. Need the Fact Check link, I'll be happy to provide it.

The only tax breaks businesses get for moving are moving expenses. That's it. It doesn't matter if you are moving from New York to Texas or from Minnesota to Indonesia. And nobody will stay in this country, put up with all the government BS, the taxation, the unions or higher wage workers for a measly tax break on moving expenses.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

Its pretty much the same over here. I will also add in zero hours contracts. A large section of society does not earn enough to save for a pension and this will have a huge impact in 20 years or so.

Inequality is the big problem. Capital exploits the differences to drive down wages. Strike for better pay or conditions and we will move your job to India where they will work for half your pay. How to break the cycle is a big conundrum.

It's not a big conundrum.

All that needs to happen is to take away all the tax benefits of moving jobs out of America and impose huge penalties to move our jobs to low wage nations.

Impose huge penalties in the form of huge taxes on all companies that move our jobs to other nations. Make it very expensive to move our jobs out of our nation. The republicans enacted tax laws that reward companies for moving out of our nation in the reagan years when reagan was sending our jobs to Japan. When the House was in democratic hands in 2007 they passed a bill that removed tax benefits for moving our jobs to other nations. The republicans filibustered it when it got to the senate. republicans won't do one thing to penalize any company that moves our jobs to other nations.

When greedy CEOs and business owners see that it's more expensive to move our jobs out of the nation they will stop doing it.

Tariffs won't stop it. Giving corporations and business huge tax cuts won't stop it.

Imposing huge penalties will.

However, I thought trump and republicans have been declaring us at full employment with 3.7% unemployment. Why would anyone worry about jobs being sent off shore if we have such low unemployment?

By the way, the unemployment rate was 4.7% when Obama left office. trump has lowered the unemployment rate by 1% in nearly 2 years, yet republicans and conservatives believe he's responsible for such a low unemployment rate.

When any republican lowers the unemployment rate from 10% down to 4.7% I'll give them credit for it. Yet I've not seem any republican president do that in the last over 20 years.

The Capitalist Republican solution is to have Americans compete with China's wages.

Apparently we deserve less as a society.

No, but we can't have unions forcing companies to grossly overpay their workers while Chinese make what they do. You can't compete that way, and outside of government, unions are now a thing of the past.

No you don't compete with China in the first place, you even the score, by throwing CEO's behind bars who outsource as a criminalized behavior, you make an example, and they'll behave. If they try to move their companies out of the country, you Nationalize them.

Leadership by example, to put them into line by fear.

I certainly don't want Chinese to make the same income as us, but it's happening, meaning China will become the top power house.
That's a problem for us.

I certainly don't want Americans to make the same income as us, but it's happening, meaning American workers will lose income.
That's again, another problem for us.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

Its pretty much the same over here. I will also add in zero hours contracts. A large section of society does not earn enough to save for a pension and this will have a huge impact in 20 years or so.

Inequality is the big problem. Capital exploits the differences to drive down wages. Strike for better pay or conditions and we will move your job to India where they will work for half your pay. How to break the cycle is a big conundrum.

It's not a big conundrum.

All that needs to happen is to take away all the tax benefits of moving jobs out of America and impose huge penalties to move our jobs to low wage nations.

Impose huge penalties in the form of huge taxes on all companies that move our jobs to other nations. Make it very expensive to move our jobs out of our nation. The republicans enacted tax laws that reward companies for moving out of our nation in the reagan years when reagan was sending our jobs to Japan. When the House was in democratic hands in 2007 they passed a bill that removed tax benefits for moving our jobs to other nations. The republicans filibustered it when it got to the senate. republicans won't do one thing to penalize any company that moves our jobs to other nations.

When greedy CEOs and business owners see that it's more expensive to move our jobs out of the nation they will stop doing it.

Tariffs won't stop it. Giving corporations and business huge tax cuts won't stop it.

Imposing huge penalties will.

However, I thought trump and republicans have been declaring us at full employment with 3.7% unemployment. Why would anyone worry about jobs being sent off shore if we have such low unemployment?

By the way, the unemployment rate was 4.7% when Obama left office. trump has lowered the unemployment rate by 1% in nearly 2 years, yet republicans and conservatives believe he's responsible for such a low unemployment rate.

When any republican lowers the unemployment rate from 10% down to 4.7% I'll give them credit for it. Yet I've not seem any republican president do that in the last over 20 years.

The Capitalist Republican solution is to have Americans compete with China's wages.

Apparently we deserve less as a society.

No, but we can't have unions forcing companies to grossly overpay their workers while Chinese make what they do. You can't compete that way, and outside of government, unions are now a thing of the past.

No you don't compete with China in the first place, you even the score, by throwing CEO's behind bars who outsource as a criminalized behavior, you make an example, and they'll behave. If they try to move their companies out of the country, you Nationalize them.

Leadership by example, to put them into line by fear.

I certainly don't want Chinese to make the same income as us, but it's happening, meaning China will become the top power house.
That's a problem for us.

I certainly don't want Americans to make the same income as us, but it's happening, meaning American workers will lose income.
That's again, another problem for us.

In a free country we don't allow government to run our businesses. If you think that's a great idea, maybe Cuba is more suited for your liking.

Over here, businesses compete by producing and selling at the cheapest cost. It's been that way for decades now. CEO's are not in charge of that, the American consumer is. And until we can adjust our way of thinking when it comes to purchases, it will stay that way.

You can't blame a CEO because a CEO is answering the demands of his or her customers. HTF can you make that a crime or illegal?

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

Its pretty much the same over here. I will also add in zero hours contracts. A large section of society does not earn enough to save for a pension and this will have a huge impact in 20 years or so.

Inequality is the big problem. Capital exploits the differences to drive down wages. Strike for better pay or conditions and we will move your job to India where they will work for half your pay. How to break the cycle is a big conundrum.

It's not a big conundrum.

All that needs to happen is to take away all the tax benefits of moving jobs out of America and impose huge penalties to move our jobs to low wage nations.

Impose huge penalties in the form of huge taxes on all companies that move our jobs to other nations. Make it very expensive to move our jobs out of our nation. The republicans enacted tax laws that reward companies for moving out of our nation in the reagan years when reagan was sending our jobs to Japan. When the House was in democratic hands in 2007 they passed a bill that removed tax benefits for moving our jobs to other nations. The republicans filibustered it when it got to the senate. republicans won't do one thing to penalize any company that moves our jobs to other nations.

When greedy CEOs and business owners see that it's more expensive to move our jobs out of the nation they will stop doing it.

Tariffs won't stop it. Giving corporations and business huge tax cuts won't stop it.

Imposing huge penalties will.

However, I thought trump and republicans have been declaring us at full employment with 3.7% unemployment. Why would anyone worry about jobs being sent off shore if we have such low unemployment?

By the way, the unemployment rate was 4.7% when Obama left office. trump has lowered the unemployment rate by 1% in nearly 2 years, yet republicans and conservatives believe he's responsible for such a low unemployment rate.

When any republican lowers the unemployment rate from 10% down to 4.7% I'll give them credit for it. Yet I've not seem any republican president do that in the last over 20 years.

The Capitalist Republican solution is to have Americans compete with China's wages.

Apparently we deserve less as a society.

/——-/ 100% pure unadulterated liberal pigshyt.

Liberalism of the market means to loosen regulation.

The first Leftists were also Capitalists.

So, absolutely, it is Liberal, Leftist garbage to think we should settle for less, and compete with Chinese scab wages.