If this is true, we are in trouble...

[Cellblock2429]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

Its pretty much the same over here. I will also add in zero hours contracts. A large section of society does not earn enough to save for a pension and this will have a huge impact in 20 years or so.

Inequality is the big problem. Capital exploits the differences to drive down wages. Strike for better pay or conditions and we will move your job to India where they will work for half your pay. How to break the cycle is a big conundrum.

It's not a big conundrum.

All that needs to happen is to take away all the tax benefits of moving jobs out of America and impose huge penalties to move our jobs to low wage nations.

Impose huge penalties in the form of huge taxes on all companies that move our jobs to other nations. Make it very expensive to move our jobs out of our nation. The republicans enacted tax laws that reward companies for moving out of our nation in the reagan years when reagan was sending our jobs to Japan. When the House was in democratic hands in 2007 they passed a bill that removed tax benefits for moving our jobs to other nations. The republicans filibustered it when it got to the senate. republicans won't do one thing to penalize any company that moves our jobs to other nations.

When greedy CEOs and business owners see that it's more expensive to move our jobs out of the nation they will stop doing it.

Tariffs won't stop it. Giving corporations and business huge tax cuts won't stop it.

Imposing huge penalties will.

However, I thought trump and republicans have been declaring us at full employment with 3.7% unemployment. Why would anyone worry about jobs being sent off shore if we have such low unemployment?

By the way, the unemployment rate was 4.7% when Obama left office. trump has lowered the unemployment rate by 1% in nearly 2 years, yet republicans and conservatives believe he's responsible for such a low unemployment rate.

When any republican lowers the unemployment rate from 10% down to 4.7% I'll give them credit for it. Yet I've not seem any republican president do that in the last over 20 years.

The Capitalist Republican solution is to have Americans compete with China's wages.

Apparently we deserve less as a society.

/——-/ 100% pure unadulterated liberal pigshyt.

Liberalism of the market means to loosen regulation.

The first Leftists were also Capitalists.

So, absolutely, it is Liberal, Leftist garbage to think we should settle for less, and compete with Chinese scab wages.

/——/ Strawman Argument. No one says we should compete which Socialists slave states except you

 

[Cellblock2429]

we do reward our athletes and entertainers with ridiculous amounts of money for contributing nothing to society. that needs to stop. CEO pay in some cases is also ridiculous and that also should be curtailed. BUT how do we do that in a free society?

You don't stop any of it. In a free society, we are free to give our money to whoever we desire.

Well said.

Everybody in private society is worth in economic terms precisely what profit--not income but PROFIT--he/she can generate through one's own business or the value he/she has to an employer.

A CEO is paid according to his ability/expertise in generating profits for the owners/share holders of the corporation. A pro athlete is paid according to his ability to draw the fans, sell the beer and peanuts, market the paraphernalia, etc. and therefore generate profits for the owners/shareholders of the franchise. An actor or actress or other entertainer is paid according to his ability to draw patrons to the box office, sell CDs, DVDs, blu rays, or entice viewers to watch that rakes in the advertising revenues.

And each of these kinds of activities creates opportunities for others--designers, construction workers, behind the scenes employees, those providing raw materials, transportation, or whole products for resale, janitors etc--who in turn perhaps unknowingly provide other opportunities for people to profit. Each is working for his/her own benefit and may not be even conscious of 99.9 percent of what others contribute, but the process results in countless thousands/millions of people all unwittingly working together to make that football game or movie or concert or corporation possible, even successful.

And yes it may seem obscene that a CEO or entertainer earns millions while teachers, police officers, and other public servants earn so little in comparison. But if we think by reducing the amount that CEO or entertainer earns will in any way improve the situation for teachers or police officers, we are sadly mistaken. For by making the rich less rich, we will invariably reduce the resources available for the less rich.

You can rob the rich to pay the poor for only so long before there is no money to pay anybody. You simply cannot hurt or punish the rich without also hurting and punishing the much less rich.

I can't think of people who "CURRENTLY" cause more mayhem for the average US worker than business managers big or small.

The small business managers tend to hire illegals in mass.

The big business managers tend to hire people living in China first.

This is the problem people.

They are cutting our throats because hiring foreigners for less pays them more at society's expense.

Plain in simply the modern CEO is a parasite who devours society's well being piece by piece.

They simply deserve to be paid in dirt.

Sorry but those you deem as 'parasites' are simply responding to the U.S. systems that people who think like you insist on putting in place. If you allow the free market to work, and allow people to run their businesses in the most efficient way short of violating existing RICO and anti trust laws, you will see a lot less companies going overseas to do business. In fact the President's current reforms have made it much more attractive to do business here and we are beginning to see more companies coming back to America than we are seeing leaving America.

If the Democrats regain power, we will again see a business unfriendly climate that sends businesses elsewhere.

LOL, Unions went down significantly, real wages went down, productivity went way up, and yet it's all NOT ENOUGH for the gouging parasites called CEO's.

The problem is called greed, they will never be satisified with what they have here, they can make more overseas hiring people for less to undermine our economy.

That's the problem, it's un-American, and the exact opposite of patriotism.

As for Trump, here's the Trump economy in a nutshell.

/——/ Become a CEO and show us how it’s done.

 

[Cellblock2429]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

Its pretty much the same over here. I will also add in zero hours contracts. A large section of society does not earn enough to save for a pension and this will have a huge impact in 20 years or so.

Inequality is the big problem. Capital exploits the differences to drive down wages. Strike for better pay or conditions and we will move your job to India where they will work for half your pay. How to break the cycle is a big conundrum.

It's not a big conundrum.

All that needs to happen is to take away all the tax benefits of moving jobs out of America and impose huge penalties to move our jobs to low wage nations.

Impose huge penalties in the form of huge taxes on all companies that move our jobs to other nations. Make it very expensive to move our jobs out of our nation. The republicans enacted tax laws that reward companies for moving out of our nation in the reagan years when reagan was sending our jobs to Japan. When the House was in democratic hands in 2007 they passed a bill that removed tax benefits for moving our jobs to other nations. The republicans filibustered it when it got to the senate. republicans won't do one thing to penalize any company that moves our jobs to other nations.

When greedy CEOs and business owners see that it's more expensive to move our jobs out of the nation they will stop doing it.

Tariffs won't stop it. Giving corporations and business huge tax cuts won't stop it.

Imposing huge penalties will.

However, I thought trump and republicans have been declaring us at full employment with 3.7% unemployment. Why would anyone worry about jobs being sent off shore if we have such low unemployment?

By the way, the unemployment rate was 4.7% when Obama left office. trump has lowered the unemployment rate by 1% in nearly 2 years, yet republicans and conservatives believe he's responsible for such a low unemployment rate.

When any republican lowers the unemployment rate from 10% down to 4.7% I'll give them credit for it. Yet I've not seem any republican president do that in the last over 20 years.

The answer is a lot simpler than that. Eliminate inequality.

/——-/ HTF do you do that? It’s a stupid notion you can make everyone equal.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

This stuff has been true for a long time

Americans do not save
Do not like to save

Yeah it is all the fault of poor and middle class. Government, establishment, political parties, capitalism, the ruling class are blameless.

LMFAO!

The government establishment, political parties, capitalism, the ruling class never made me spend more than I make
The government establishment, political parties, capitalism, the ruling class never stopped me from saving money

Stop blaming everyone else for your failures

It has nothing to do with saving or spending. It has everything to do with opportunity, freedom, and justice for all.

I’ve done extraordinarily well but unlike you, I care about my fellow man and the future of the country.

When enormous wealth is obtained by a small elite, opportunity, freedom, and justice are diminished for the vast majority of the people. We are witnessing it first hand but some like you, are blind to reality.

Savings leads to opportunity.

Saving leads to financial freedom

If you save your money you will be in control of your own fate.

So if you really cared about your fellow man you would be telling them to save their money and not denigrating them by telling them that the fucking government has to come to their aid.

You did well but do you really think everyone else is so pathetic they can't do as well or better than you unless the fucking government steps in?

I'm afraid you will never understand. Many Americans must endure tough circumstances in their youth. Their parents aren't around or harm them in some way. They attend pubic schools that teach them nothing. They are exposed to all sorts of dysfunction, yet you stay tough it out. WTF is wrong with you?

The real problem are single-parent families. Trust me, I live in a black area. I see it all the time.

A teacher can only teach. But if the students refuse to learn, or the parents are totally disassociated with their child's education, the best teachers in the country can't help.

My sister sent her two kids to private Catholic school until college. My niece started falling behind and was issued a warning by the school. When you pay mucho bucks to educate your kids, you make sure you're going to get your money's worth.

So my sister sat with her every night helping with homework. She was grounded until her grades drastically improved. Her entertainment like television and internet were severely limited. She spent most of her time studying.

Her grades went up real fast, but my sister still monitored her activity very closely.

Public school? Put the kid on the bus and they are the teachers problem now, not mine. Public school is not paid by just me, it's paid for by the taxpayers.

 

[BrokeLoser]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

Meanwhile, everybody I know who follows the basic manual, is ambitious, works hard, makes good decisions and stays determined succeeds.
Fucking weird how that works.
Folks, this shit isn’t rocket science...poor people are victims of their own decision making, they are their own worst enemy, they can’t get out of their own way.

 

[Cellblock2429]

Life is way more expensive. My parents got their house, which is 2x the size of mine for 25% of the cost. The cable bill back then was like $50. Now I pay $250. There was no cell phone bill. Now I pay $350. Car prices and gas prices have skyrocketed. College tuition and food costs are way up. Middle class gets squeezed. Wealthy don’t care and the poor get enough Govt support to continuously game the system.

You pay 600 a month for cable and a cell phone?

Get HULU and a Trac phone

I have six lines on my phone and no, I like my cable but thanks. I know there are alternatives. I also have Amazon Prime and Netflix.

Then stop whining how expensive it is.

he wasn't complaining.

Sure as hell sounded like it to me

I pay 600 a month for cell phones and cable and my parents never paid that much

/——/ TV was limited to three networks and was free, so was radio. Phones were expensive for the time.

 

[BrokeLoser]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

I wonder if the presence of 29 million illegals and their tens of millions of anchor babies have fucked those numbers all up?
Anybody know?

 

[MarathonMike]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

Meanwhile, everybody I know who follows the basic manual, is ambitious, works hard, makes good decisions and stays determined succeeds.
Fucking weird how that works.
Folks, this shit isn’t rocket science...poor people are victims of their own decision making, they are their own worst enemy, they can’t get out of their own way.

Jesus what kind of mental illness do you have to have to do that to yourself?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Sure as hell sounded like it to me

I pay 600 a month for cell phones and cable and my parents never paid that much

They probably never paid that much for their mortgage yet alone television and phone.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Myself, i cling to what my folks told me over a 1/2 century ago

The 'rich get richer, get poor get poorer in America'

I adhere to what my father taught me'

"Ray, making money is easy. Anybody can make money; an idiot can make money. But money is hard to keep. The more you make and the more you keep is how wealth is acquired."

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

/——/ It’s not the Government’s responsibility to provide healthcare. Just let the free market do I like 50 years ago.

It’s not the Government’s responsibility to provide healthcare. Just let the free market do I like 50 years ago.

It's the governments job to protect it's citizenry. Reagan nixed that by deregulating the bipartisan HMO Act.

Healthcare is not protecting the citizenry.

Healthcare is not protecting the citizenry.

By not getting screwed when paying for it, especially since healthcare in the US today is a capitalist racketeer company store monopoly.

So your solution is to subsidize the racketeers.

My solution for healthcare is to provide a single-payer non-profit private company (such as Kaiser) to negotiate prices from the healthcare insurance companies that already own or derive profit from 95% of current healthcare providers, which will bring healthcare costs down to a reasonable level.

Something nobody ever tried was lowering the cost of healthcare first, then finding a way to pay for it. We keep searching for ways to pay for healthcare without addressing the issues that make it too expensive in the first place. There are a dozen ways to do this; some of which would not cost us a dime. But nobody wants to address that problem. Just figure out who to send the bill to.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

/——/ It’s not the Government’s responsibility to provide healthcare. Just let the free market do I like 50 years ago.

It’s not the Government’s responsibility to provide healthcare. Just let the free market do I like 50 years ago.

It's the governments job to protect it's citizenry. Reagan nixed that by deregulating the bipartisan HMO Act.

Healthcare is not protecting the citizenry.

Healthcare is not protecting the citizenry.

By not getting screwed when paying for it, especially since healthcare in the US today is a capitalist racketeer company store monopoly.

Under that line of thinking, government should pay our house or rental insurance, our car insurance, life insurance, appliance, lawn and garden equipment insurance.

After all, according to you, the federal government is now constitutionally obligated so no American ever gets screwed. I would love to know where that clause is in the document.

You don't believe the government has any obligation to guard against it's citizens from getting hurt?

No I don't because nowhere is that written. Yes, government does provide guidelines, but it's not out of a requirement.

 

[BrokeLoser]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

Meanwhile, everybody I know who follows the basic manual, is ambitious, works hard, makes good decisions and stays determined succeeds.
Fucking weird how that works.
Folks, this shit isn’t rocket science...poor people are victims of their own decision making, they are their own worst enemy, they can’t get out of their own way.

Jesus what kind of mental illness do you have to have to do that to yourself?

LefTardism is a powerful mind virus, a severe disorder.

 

[Foxfyre]

we do reward our athletes and entertainers with ridiculous amounts of money for contributing nothing to society. that needs to stop. CEO pay in some cases is also ridiculous and that also should be curtailed. BUT how do we do that in a free society?

You don't stop any of it. In a free society, we are free to give our money to whoever we desire.

Well said.

Everybody in private society is worth in economic terms precisely what profit--not income but PROFIT--he/she can generate through one's own business or the value he/she has to an employer.

A CEO is paid according to his ability/expertise in generating profits for the owners/share holders of the corporation. A pro athlete is paid according to his ability to draw the fans, sell the beer and peanuts, market the paraphernalia, etc. and therefore generate profits for the owners/shareholders of the franchise. An actor or actress or other entertainer is paid according to his ability to draw patrons to the box office, sell CDs, DVDs, blu rays, or entice viewers to watch that rakes in the advertising revenues.

And each of these kinds of activities creates opportunities for others--designers, construction workers, behind the scenes employees, those providing raw materials, transportation, or whole products for resale, janitors etc--who in turn perhaps unknowingly provide other opportunities for people to profit. Each is working for his/her own benefit and may not be even conscious of 99.9 percent of what others contribute, but the process results in countless thousands/millions of people all unwittingly working together to make that football game or movie or concert or corporation possible, even successful.

And yes it may seem obscene that a CEO or entertainer earns millions while teachers, police officers, and other public servants earn so little in comparison. But if we think by reducing the amount that CEO or entertainer earns will in any way improve the situation for teachers or police officers, we are sadly mistaken. For by making the rich less rich, we will invariably reduce the resources available for the less rich.

You can rob the rich to pay the poor for only so long before there is no money to pay anybody. You simply cannot hurt or punish the rich without also hurting and punishing the much less rich.

I can't think of people who "CURRENTLY" cause more mayhem for the average US worker than business managers big or small.

The small business managers tend to hire illegals in mass.

The big business managers tend to hire people living in China first.

This is the problem people.

They are cutting our throats because hiring foreigners for less pays them more at society's expense.

Plain in simply the modern CEO is a parasite who devours society's well being piece by piece.

They simply deserve to be paid in dirt.

Sorry but those you deem as 'parasites' are simply responding to the U.S. systems that people who think like you insist on putting in place. If you allow the free market to work, and allow people to run their businesses in the most efficient way short of violating existing RICO and anti trust laws, you will see a lot less companies going overseas to do business. In fact the President's current reforms have made it much more attractive to do business here and we are beginning to see more companies coming back to America than we are seeing leaving America.

If the Democrats regain power, we will again see a business unfriendly climate that sends businesses elsewhere.

LOL, Unions went down significantly, real wages went down, productivity went way up, and yet it's all NOT ENOUGH for the gouging parasites called CEO's.

The problem is called greed, they will never be satisified with what they have here, they can make more overseas hiring people for less to undermine our economy.

That's the problem, it's un-American, and the exact opposite of patriotism.

As for Trump, here's the Trump economy in a nutshell.

It is true that personal income been pretty flat overall for the last decade with the highest increase in personal income happening in 2008 and the greatest decrease in personal income happening in 2012. But that flat line also translates to 50% of the people doing better and 50% doing not as well and chances are it is the most heavily government subsidized who aren't doing as well.

Your comparing personal income with profits, however, shows a woeful lack of understanding of how the economy works. Those increased profits have put millions of people back to work who were out of work. It also represents an increase in sales over and above expenses which may or may not represent CEOs making more money but does increase opportunity for millions and millions of Americans. There's nothing that feels better than getting a job when you need one.

And all that translates to consumer and business confidence soaring under this administration while both were significantly depressed under the previous one.

There are entirely too many variables to accurately determine economic health using just two of them. But one thing is for sure: if you fired Jeff Bezos tonight and shut down Amazon.com, you would be inflicting pain on millions of people all over the world and not changing your graph enough that anybody would notice.

 

[jc456]

Life is way more expensive. My parents got their house, which is 2x the size of mine for 25% of the cost. The cable bill back then was like $50. Now I pay $250. There was no cell phone bill. Now I pay $350. Car prices and gas prices have skyrocketed. College tuition and food costs are way up. Middle class gets squeezed. Wealthy don’t care and the poor get enough Govt support to continuously game the system.

You pay 600 a month for cable and a cell phone?

Get HULU and a Trac phone

I have six lines on my phone and no, I like my cable but thanks. I know there are alternatives. I also have Amazon Prime and Netflix.

Then stop whining how expensive it is.

he wasn't complaining.

Sure as hell sounded like it to me

I pay 600 a month for cell phones and cable and my parents never paid that much

I believe he was educating us on costs! Just saying

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Its pretty much the same over here. I will also add in zero hours contracts. A large section of society does not earn enough to save for a pension and this will have a huge impact in 20 years or so.

Inequality is the big problem. Capital exploits the differences to drive down wages. Strike for better pay or conditions and we will move your job to India where they will work for half your pay. How to break the cycle is a big conundrum.

It's not a big conundrum.

All that needs to happen is to take away all the tax benefits of moving jobs out of America and impose huge penalties to move our jobs to low wage nations.

Impose huge penalties in the form of huge taxes on all companies that move our jobs to other nations. Make it very expensive to move our jobs out of our nation. The republicans enacted tax laws that reward companies for moving out of our nation in the reagan years when reagan was sending our jobs to Japan. When the House was in democratic hands in 2007 they passed a bill that removed tax benefits for moving our jobs to other nations. The republicans filibustered it when it got to the senate. republicans won't do one thing to penalize any company that moves our jobs to other nations.

When greedy CEOs and business owners see that it's more expensive to move our jobs out of the nation they will stop doing it.

Tariffs won't stop it. Giving corporations and business huge tax cuts won't stop it.

Imposing huge penalties will.

However, I thought trump and republicans have been declaring us at full employment with 3.7% unemployment. Why would anyone worry about jobs being sent off shore if we have such low unemployment?

By the way, the unemployment rate was 4.7% when Obama left office. trump has lowered the unemployment rate by 1% in nearly 2 years, yet republicans and conservatives believe he's responsible for such a low unemployment rate.

When any republican lowers the unemployment rate from 10% down to 4.7% I'll give them credit for it. Yet I've not seem any republican president do that in the last over 20 years.

The Capitalist Republican solution is to have Americans compete with China's wages.

Apparently we deserve less as a society.

No, but we can't have unions forcing companies to grossly overpay their workers while Chinese make what they do. You can't compete that way, and outside of government, unions are now a thing of the past.

No you don't compete with China in the first place, you even the score, by throwing CEO's behind bars who outsource as a criminalized behavior, you make an example, and they'll behave. If they try to move their companies out of the country, you Nationalize them.

Leadership by example, to put them into line by fear.

I certainly don't want Chinese to make the same income as us, but it's happening, meaning China will become the top power house.
That's a problem for us.

I certainly don't want Americans to make the same income as us, but it's happening, meaning American workers will lose income.
That's again, another problem for us.

In a free country we don't allow government to run our businesses. If you think that's a great idea, maybe Cuba is more suited for your liking.

Over here, businesses compete by producing and selling at the cheapest cost. It's been that way for decades now. CEO's are not in charge of that, the American consumer is. And until we can adjust our way of thinking when it comes to purchases, it will stay that way.

You can't blame a CEO because a CEO is answering the demands of his or her customers. HTF can you make that a crime or illegal?

Actually, the USA long had strong business regulation through state regulations.

The Rise of Corporations — Global Issues

RACHEL #488: FIXING CORPORATIONS--PART 1: LEGACY OF THE FOUNDING PARENTS

To say that the USA customer is responsible for outsourcing beyond the CEO, is flat out ridiculous.

The CEO's started the outsourcing, and eventually it has got to the point where everybody has to outsource to compete, we don't even have much of a choice anymore.

Because of falling real wages, we are getting also to the point where we also are forced to buy cheaper, and those real wages are falling because of outsourced jobs in large part.

What's best for the people is what's best for the people.

That's not necessarily freedom, if our society is falling apart because of free will, then freedom therefor has very little, in fact perhaps a negative value.

 

[Jimmy_Chitwood]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

Not sure how accurate those stats are, but things have changed since I was a young man starting out.

Back then, I was taught:

1 week's pay is for housing. The next week's is for food and bills. The next 2, you either spend or save.

It doesn't work like that now. It still does for me, somehow, but not for many.

Certainly not for anyone in the position I was in back then.

I was making $1150/wk back then..that included side jobs.

Now people need to save for tattoos, new cell phones and transgendering.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

You don't stop any of it. In a free society, we are free to give our money to whoever we desire.

Well said.

Everybody in private society is worth in economic terms precisely what profit--not income but PROFIT--he/she can generate through one's own business or the value he/she has to an employer.

A CEO is paid according to his ability/expertise in generating profits for the owners/share holders of the corporation. A pro athlete is paid according to his ability to draw the fans, sell the beer and peanuts, market the paraphernalia, etc. and therefore generate profits for the owners/shareholders of the franchise. An actor or actress or other entertainer is paid according to his ability to draw patrons to the box office, sell CDs, DVDs, blu rays, or entice viewers to watch that rakes in the advertising revenues.

And each of these kinds of activities creates opportunities for others--designers, construction workers, behind the scenes employees, those providing raw materials, transportation, or whole products for resale, janitors etc--who in turn perhaps unknowingly provide other opportunities for people to profit. Each is working for his/her own benefit and may not be even conscious of 99.9 percent of what others contribute, but the process results in countless thousands/millions of people all unwittingly working together to make that football game or movie or concert or corporation possible, even successful.

And yes it may seem obscene that a CEO or entertainer earns millions while teachers, police officers, and other public servants earn so little in comparison. But if we think by reducing the amount that CEO or entertainer earns will in any way improve the situation for teachers or police officers, we are sadly mistaken. For by making the rich less rich, we will invariably reduce the resources available for the less rich.

You can rob the rich to pay the poor for only so long before there is no money to pay anybody. You simply cannot hurt or punish the rich without also hurting and punishing the much less rich.

I can't think of people who "CURRENTLY" cause more mayhem for the average US worker than business managers big or small.

The small business managers tend to hire illegals in mass.

The big business managers tend to hire people living in China first.

This is the problem people.

They are cutting our throats because hiring foreigners for less pays them more at society's expense.

Plain in simply the modern CEO is a parasite who devours society's well being piece by piece.

They simply deserve to be paid in dirt.

Sorry but those you deem as 'parasites' are simply responding to the U.S. systems that people who think like you insist on putting in place. If you allow the free market to work, and allow people to run their businesses in the most efficient way short of violating existing RICO and anti trust laws, you will see a lot less companies going overseas to do business. In fact the President's current reforms have made it much more attractive to do business here and we are beginning to see more companies coming back to America than we are seeing leaving America.

If the Democrats regain power, we will again see a business unfriendly climate that sends businesses elsewhere.

LOL, Unions went down significantly, real wages went down, productivity went way up, and yet it's all NOT ENOUGH for the gouging parasites called CEO's.

The problem is called greed, they will never be satisified with what they have here, they can make more overseas hiring people for less to undermine our economy.

That's the problem, it's un-American, and the exact opposite of patriotism.

As for Trump, here's the Trump economy in a nutshell.

It is true that personal income been pretty flat overall for the last decade with the highest increase in personal income happening in 2008 and the greatest decrease in personal income happening in 2012. But that flat line also translates to 50% of the people doing better and 50% doing not as well and chances are it is the most heavily government subsidized who aren't doing as well.

Your comparing personal income with profits, however, shows a woeful lack of understanding of how the economy works. Those increased profits have put millions of people back to work who were out of work. It also represents an increase in sales over and above expenses which may or may not represent CEOs making more money but does increase opportunity for millions and millions of Americans. There's nothing that feels better than getting a job when you need one.

And all that translates to consumer and business confidence soaring under this administration while both were significantly depressed under the previous one.

There are entirely too many variables to accurately determine economic health using just two of them. But one thing is for sure: if you fired Jeff Bezos tonight and shut down Amazon.com, you would be inflicting pain on millions of people all over the world and not changing your graph enough that anybody would notice.

The profits increased, and the real incomes decreased according to the chart, what's there to get, they're gouging us left, and right.

Even with a massive increase in American productivity, that wealth created was never seen by the American workers, and probably never meant for the American workers.

Actually, those corporate profits probably only climbed so high because of foreign markets, because we're sure not seeing it come back into our economy with this inflation.

It's not Patriotism that Americans settle for less pay, it's anything but Patriotism.

It's hilarious that so many Republican barbarians think Americans should settle for less.

Republicans, and also Democrats both have no place in a civilized society, they are what you create to destroy a civilization.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It's not a big conundrum.

All that needs to happen is to take away all the tax benefits of moving jobs out of America and impose huge penalties to move our jobs to low wage nations.

Impose huge penalties in the form of huge taxes on all companies that move our jobs to other nations. Make it very expensive to move our jobs out of our nation. The republicans enacted tax laws that reward companies for moving out of our nation in the reagan years when reagan was sending our jobs to Japan. When the House was in democratic hands in 2007 they passed a bill that removed tax benefits for moving our jobs to other nations. The republicans filibustered it when it got to the senate. republicans won't do one thing to penalize any company that moves our jobs to other nations.

When greedy CEOs and business owners see that it's more expensive to move our jobs out of the nation they will stop doing it.

Tariffs won't stop it. Giving corporations and business huge tax cuts won't stop it.

Imposing huge penalties will.

However, I thought trump and republicans have been declaring us at full employment with 3.7% unemployment. Why would anyone worry about jobs being sent off shore if we have such low unemployment?

By the way, the unemployment rate was 4.7% when Obama left office. trump has lowered the unemployment rate by 1% in nearly 2 years, yet republicans and conservatives believe he's responsible for such a low unemployment rate.

When any republican lowers the unemployment rate from 10% down to 4.7% I'll give them credit for it. Yet I've not seem any republican president do that in the last over 20 years.

The Capitalist Republican solution is to have Americans compete with China's wages.

Apparently we deserve less as a society.

No, but we can't have unions forcing companies to grossly overpay their workers while Chinese make what they do. You can't compete that way, and outside of government, unions are now a thing of the past.

No you don't compete with China in the first place, you even the score, by throwing CEO's behind bars who outsource as a criminalized behavior, you make an example, and they'll behave. If they try to move their companies out of the country, you Nationalize them.

Leadership by example, to put them into line by fear.

I certainly don't want Chinese to make the same income as us, but it's happening, meaning China will become the top power house.
That's a problem for us.

I certainly don't want Americans to make the same income as us, but it's happening, meaning American workers will lose income.
That's again, another problem for us.

In a free country we don't allow government to run our businesses. If you think that's a great idea, maybe Cuba is more suited for your liking.

Over here, businesses compete by producing and selling at the cheapest cost. It's been that way for decades now. CEO's are not in charge of that, the American consumer is. And until we can adjust our way of thinking when it comes to purchases, it will stay that way.

You can't blame a CEO because a CEO is answering the demands of his or her customers. HTF can you make that a crime or illegal?

Actually, the USA long had strong business regulation through state regulations.

The Rise of Corporations — Global Issues

RACHEL #488: FIXING CORPORATIONS--PART 1: LEGACY OF THE FOUNDING PARENTS

To say that the USA customer is responsible for outsourcing beyond the CEO, is flat out ridiculous.

The CEO's started the outsourcing, and eventually it has got to the point where everybody has to outsource to compete, we don't even have much of a choice anymore.

Because of falling real wages, we are getting also to the point where we also are forced to buy cheaper, and those real wages are falling because of outsourced jobs in large part.

What's best for the people is what's best for the people.

That's not necessarily freedom, if our society is falling apart because of free will, then freedom therefor has very little, in fact perhaps a negative value.

CEO's didn't start outsourcing just for the hell of it. Consumers demanded cheaper products, and now it's to the point of cheapest products.

We have three goals when it comes to production in the US:

* low cost products.
* high paying jobs.
* reasonable to good returns on investment.

The problem is you can't have all three. So we as a country chose good investments and lower priced products.

Lower priced products sell the most. Good investment returns attract more investors. A CEO is in charge of trying to provide both. If a CEO doesn't provide both or either, then that CEO is going to be looking for another job, likely with less pay. That's how it works.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Actually, I think we shall consider getting rid of Amazon, it's if anything more of a societal detriment, it gets rid of other Stores which otherwise hire more people than Amazon would.

Yet pay a lower wage to the workers and have worse working conditions.

We have dispelled this bullshit when the Communists lied about Walmart.

That means less jobs for the masses.

Just another big loss for this generation of mine, and another blow to this nation.

We have 3.8% unemployment. There are jobs for everyone. Marxist rhetoric is ignorant nonsense.

Of course most Americans are severely delusional about Capitalism, and are clueless that this WAS NOT really much of a Capitalist country until after WW2, basically.

Capitalism needs to be planned, and regulated.

You are economically illiterate, You use terms with literally zero grasp of their meaning.

Have you ever read anything written by any economist? I'm guessing you have not.