If this is true, we are in trouble...

[Clementine]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

Not sure how accurate those stats are, but things have changed since I was a young man starting out.

Back then, I was taught:

1 week's pay is for housing. The next week's is for food and bills. The next 2, you either spend or save.

It doesn't work like that now. It still does for me, somehow, but not for many.

Certainly not for anyone in the position I was in back then.

I was making $1150/wk back then..that included side jobs.

So many live beyond their means. Because of the Community Reinvestment Act that Clinton revived, banks were forced to make loans, knowing most people couldn't pay them back. We also have a credit card problem. I've met so many young people who don't believe in living within their means. They want the new car and big house, which puts them in deep debt. Back in the day, most of us started out with a small apartment, often filled with hand me down furniture, a used car and we lived on a strict budget. We kept working until we could gradually afford to increase our standard of living. It kept us out of the deep debt. Somehow, this generation believes they are entitled to have everything now and there are too many ways for them to get it, even though it's not wise to go that far into debt. Their budgets are so stretched that even the slightest disaster, like an unexpected accident that keeps them from working or a major repair that's needed, will break them and they could lose everything. If they had lived within their means, they would have money saved for an emergency.

Many of the poor are uneducated. Many of the poor had children out of wedlock. Too many unwise decisions make it difficult to get ahead. Those on welfare will forever be at the mercy of politicians, who constantly promise them more in exchange for their vote. And they blame their predicament on the wealthy people, as if somehow they took something from them. Can't lose what you never had. Living off government means they will never have money saved for an emergency.

Even those who work, but are unskilled and uneducated, will barely get by and live paycheck to paycheck because they aren't qualified to get promoted in the company. Being unable to advance in a job means they will never save enough money for an emergency.

So, the lesson is clear. Finish school. Wait to have children till you are married. Take additional schooling to qualify for better jobs. Live below your means so you can easily support yourself and save money.

Almost all my friends live in nice houses, drive nice cars, and have money saved for retirement. Most of us have some luxuries, too, like boats and campers. Most of us started out with crappy jobs but we all got better jobs when we finished school. Even the ones that didn't go to college managed to get promoted at their jobs and slowly increased their income. We lived below our means. It's not rocket science. I get so disgusted when I see people either quitting school and having babies or young people working but still thinking they should have houses as nice as their parents even though it's not within a reasonable budget for them.

It's this attitude of "I deserve everything" that causes people to think they shouldn't have to work years to build the lifestyle they desire. We all want something nice but it takes years to get there.

 

[eagle1462010]

Sorry but those you deem as 'parasites' are simply responding to the U.S. systems that people who think like you insist on putting in place. If you allow the free market to work, and allow people to run their businesses in the most efficient way short of violating existing RICO and anti trust laws, you will see a lot less companies going overseas to do business. In fact the President's current reforms have made it much more attractive to do business here and we are beginning to see more companies coming back to America than we are seeing leaving America.

If the Democrats regain power, we will again see a business unfriendly climate that sends businesses elsewhere.

LOL, Unions went down significantly, real wages went down, productivity went way up, and yet it's all NOT ENOUGH for the gouging parasites called CEO's.

The problem is called greed, they will never be satisified with what they have here, they can make more overseas hiring people for less to undermine our economy.

That's the problem, it's un-American, and the exact opposite of patriotism.

As for Trump, here's the Trump economy in a nutshell.

/——/ Become a CEO and show us how it’s done.

Here ya go!

-Base Federal tax for corporations at 30% of revenue.

-Raise minimum wage to $23.50/hr. Based on where minimum wage should be using 1970-2018 rise in food, shelter, and transportation.

-Eliminate all business subsidies (deductions/write-offs/write-downs) except for employee expenses which are deducted dollar-for-dollar on all city, state, and Federal taxes and fees with the Feds refunding city, State, and fees.

-Companies with unlimited employees; employee expenses above the deduction are subsidized at 100% with funds usually give back to the States.

-Adjust Social Security and private/public retirement and pension payments using 1970-2018 price structure.

-Remove the FICA limit.

-Back down ALL costs, prices, fees, to January 1, 2009 levels and hold them for 15 years which will eliminate inflation.

-Recall ALL off-shore investments tax free, and disallow any further off-shore investments.

-Make inversion illegal.

My plan would reduce business costs for employees and taxes to 30%. That's a 15%-30% drop.

My plan would put BILLIONS into the economy daily.

My plan would put the $100 trillion plus currently owned by corporate America back into the economy.

My plan would end all welfare.

My plan would significantly increase social security and pension payments.

My plan would hold prices for 10 years, thus eliminating inflation.

You don’t understand inflation do you? You like Ocasio “Castro” Cortez huh?

You can't show how my plan would increase inflation.

Prices would go up as a result of 300% of the current minimum wage..........Business costs go up .........inflation goes up........They don't eat the extra expenses ........they pass it on to the consumer. Now you would give that wage to someone flipping burgers........and everyone else would be where is my raise.....Your giving a pay that is near the pay scale of some skilled labor..............

Inflation would go up because everything costs more on labor..........Not to mention that the cheap labor overseas would eat our lunch............

I have shown ...........and it is being ignored that the debt and money creation have destroyed the value of the dollar.......The dollar being worth less makes everything COST MORE..............The Debt is the elephant in the room................We have the worlds Reserve Currency for now..........It is tied to OIL.........but the rest of the world wants our power gone.........and are taking steps to use other currencies..........BRIC being an example........They DEPEG our currency......we are screwed..............The DEBT NEEDS TO GO..................or NONE OF THIS MATTERS.

 

[OnePercenter]

LOL, Unions went down significantly, real wages went down, productivity went way up, and yet it's all NOT ENOUGH for the gouging parasites called CEO's.

The problem is called greed, they will never be satisified with what they have here, they can make more overseas hiring people for less to undermine our economy.

That's the problem, it's un-American, and the exact opposite of patriotism.

As for Trump, here's the Trump economy in a nutshell.

/——/ Become a CEO and show us how it’s done.

Here ya go!

-Base Federal tax for corporations at 30% of revenue.

-Raise minimum wage to $23.50/hr. Based on where minimum wage should be using 1970-2018 rise in food, shelter, and transportation.

-Eliminate all business subsidies (deductions/write-offs/write-downs) except for employee expenses which are deducted dollar-for-dollar on all city, state, and Federal taxes and fees with the Feds refunding city, State, and fees.

-Companies with unlimited employees; employee expenses above the deduction are subsidized at 100% with funds usually give back to the States.

-Adjust Social Security and private/public retirement and pension payments using 1970-2018 price structure.

-Remove the FICA limit.

-Back down ALL costs, prices, fees, to January 1, 2009 levels and hold them for 15 years which will eliminate inflation.

-Recall ALL off-shore investments tax free, and disallow any further off-shore investments.

-Make inversion illegal.

My plan would reduce business costs for employees and taxes to 30%. That's a 15%-30% drop.

My plan would put BILLIONS into the economy daily.

My plan would put the $100 trillion plus currently owned by corporate America back into the economy.

My plan would end all welfare.

My plan would significantly increase social security and pension payments.

My plan would hold prices for 10 years, thus eliminating inflation.

You don’t understand inflation do you? You like Ocasio “Castro” Cortez huh?

You can't show how my plan would increase inflation.

Prices would go up as a result of 300% of the current minimum wage..........Business costs go up .........inflation goes up........They don't eat the extra expenses ........they pass it on to the consumer. Now you would give that wage to someone flipping burgers........and everyone else would be where is my raise.....Your giving a pay that is near the pay scale of some skilled labor..............

Inflation would go up because everything costs more on labor..........Not to mention that the cheap labor overseas would eat our lunch............

I have shown ...........and it is being ignored that the debt and money creation have destroyed the value of the dollar.......The dollar being worth less makes everything COST MORE..............The Debt is the elephant in the room................We have the worlds Reserve Currency for now..........It is tied to OIL.........but the rest of the world wants our power gone.........and are taking steps to use other currencies..........BRIC being an example........They DEPEG our currency......we are screwed..............The DEBT NEEDS TO GO..................or NONE OF THIS MATTERS.

Prices are held at 2009 level for 10 years.

 

[eagle1462010]

Policy Report: Deficits, Debt, and Debasement

 

[eagle1462010]

/——/ Become a CEO and show us how it’s done.

Here ya go!

-Base Federal tax for corporations at 30% of revenue.

-Raise minimum wage to $23.50/hr. Based on where minimum wage should be using 1970-2018 rise in food, shelter, and transportation.

-Eliminate all business subsidies (deductions/write-offs/write-downs) except for employee expenses which are deducted dollar-for-dollar on all city, state, and Federal taxes and fees with the Feds refunding city, State, and fees.

-Companies with unlimited employees; employee expenses above the deduction are subsidized at 100% with funds usually give back to the States.

-Adjust Social Security and private/public retirement and pension payments using 1970-2018 price structure.

-Remove the FICA limit.

-Back down ALL costs, prices, fees, to January 1, 2009 levels and hold them for 15 years which will eliminate inflation.

-Recall ALL off-shore investments tax free, and disallow any further off-shore investments.

-Make inversion illegal.

My plan would reduce business costs for employees and taxes to 30%. That's a 15%-30% drop.

My plan would put BILLIONS into the economy daily.

My plan would put the $100 trillion plus currently owned by corporate America back into the economy.

My plan would end all welfare.

My plan would significantly increase social security and pension payments.

My plan would hold prices for 10 years, thus eliminating inflation.

You don’t understand inflation do you? You like Ocasio “Castro” Cortez huh?

You can't show how my plan would increase inflation.

Prices would go up as a result of 300% of the current minimum wage..........Business costs go up .........inflation goes up........They don't eat the extra expenses ........they pass it on to the consumer. Now you would give that wage to someone flipping burgers........and everyone else would be where is my raise.....Your giving a pay that is near the pay scale of some skilled labor..............

Inflation would go up because everything costs more on labor..........Not to mention that the cheap labor overseas would eat our lunch............

I have shown ...........and it is being ignored that the debt and money creation have destroyed the value of the dollar.......The dollar being worth less makes everything COST MORE..............The Debt is the elephant in the room................We have the worlds Reserve Currency for now..........It is tied to OIL.........but the rest of the world wants our power gone.........and are taking steps to use other currencies..........BRIC being an example........They DEPEG our currency......we are screwed..............The DEBT NEEDS TO GO..................or NONE OF THIS MATTERS.

Prices are held at 2009 level for 10 years.

Price fixing.........You would price fix everything.............sorry.....don't buy into that..........

Are massive costs to just survive..........are a product of the debasement of our currency..........this is being done all over the world as well because their is massive debt............lower the value of the dollar makes it easier to PRETEND to PAY DEBT..........debasing the currency eases the massive lending........

What happens to the people...............everything goes up in price.............because your currency isn't worth as much..........so it SCREWS the people.....and kills the American Dream..............China loves debasing their currency..............so they can sell more to the United States..............Trade deficits..............Yet it hurts their own people.............they lose purchasing power................

Nobody is going to address it.............Nobody is going to fix it...........and eventually the world will DEPEG it..........and go digital.......and it isn't gonna be pretty.

 

[initforme]

With wages as they are more and more working couples are choosing not to have kids. Smart move. It's difficult to afford a house and kids in today's america.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You're assuming I give a rats @ss about "Freedom" I really don't.

I care about results (Well being) of my society.

People shouldn't have the freedom to ruin the well being of society.

So who is ruining society and how? Freedom gives you the ability to work for somebody or not. It's not like Cuba where everybody basically works for the government.

That's why we're against drug dealers, we're against people who pee in alley-ways, we're against people who steal, people who touch themselves in movie theaters like Pee Wee, and also this really needs to be expanded to Illegal Immigrants, and Outsourced jobs, which also cause problems for "American society"

No, they cause problems for you but not for society. Society gets cheaper products which is what our society wants. If society didn't want that, they would quit purchasing those products. If society didn't like what a CEO made last year, they won't deal with his or her company.

You don't speak for society and neither do I. Society speaks for itself.

Besides, the American workers built these companies for years.

Now they're giving their own people the royal flush?

It's complete disrespect, and unpatriotic.

If they don't respect our country, they should suffer the consequences, plain, and simple.

Workers didn't build anything. Workers simply work. Companies and corporations do the building.

Nobody is getting the royal flush because nobody is forced to work for anybody. Employment is an agreement between employer and employee. Both agree to X before that union is formed.

To say that workers build nothing is ridiculous.

As if production can be achieved by CEO's alone.

I really believe some Corporate think tank pays you for propaganda.

You really got to wonder about someone who blames workers, or customers for CEO decisions to outsource.

It would be nice if we did have cheaper products but that never really happened.

Oh yeah? Well you manufacture a 50' string of X-mas lights for $15.00. Good luck.

We've never had cheaper products for two reasons: One, automation. Two, foreign labor.

It's the people with the money that build things. Workers simply work. I don't make money every day, my employer does. He purchased the equipment. He owns the building. He built the business. It was his money that was invested. He built his customer base. I didn't do any of those things. He simply gives me a portion of HIS profits that HE deems necessary.

To say workers built a business is as if to say your stock broker made you rich even though it was your money invested; it was your call on what securities to hold. Or to say your real estate agent made you wealthy even though it was you who purchased the homes, remodeled them, and resold them.

None of these people are responsible for your wealth, you are. You simply hired these people to carry out your financial plans, and you paid them fairly for their work.

 

[initforme]

Ray you are correct. Thats why smart workers are ready to walk off the job at a whims notice. No longer should a worker show one ounce of loyalty or dedication to a business. Those days are over. No more two weeks notice. that should be against the law even asking a worker for 2 weeks.

 

[initforme]

I ealkedwoff 3 jobs in my heyday. Best 3 days of my life. Not even a phone call. Just didnt show up. I didn't owe the boss anything more than a decent days work.

 

[initforme]

Most ceos could never actually do a real days work.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Healthcare is not protecting the citizenry.

Healthcare is not protecting the citizenry.

By not getting screwed when paying for it, especially since healthcare in the US today is a capitalist racketeer company store monopoly.

So your solution is to subsidize the racketeers.

My solution for healthcare is to provide a single-payer non-profit private company (such as Kaiser) to negotiate prices from the healthcare insurance companies that already own or derive profit from 95% of current healthcare providers, which will bring healthcare costs down to a reasonable level.

Something nobody ever tried was lowering the cost of healthcare first, then finding a way to pay for it. We keep searching for ways to pay for healthcare without addressing the issues that make it too expensive in the first place. There are a dozen ways to do this; some of which would not cost us a dime. But nobody wants to address that problem. Just figure out who to send the bill to.

It was much cheaper prior to the deregulation of the HMO act and would have remained that way if not for Reagan.

That has nothing to do with it. You leftist always go back to the guy that left office 30 years ago, yet never blame anybody on the left through that time. You've had the presidency for 16 years after Reagan; some of them with an entire Democrat federal government. But it's always Reagan's fault.

However being in the medical arena for a decade, I've come to learn many things. I've seen the waste. I've seen the profits made off government and insurance alike. I've seen the legal fraud. I understand how our social programs are in the position they are in today.

Without going into a five page explanation of how we got here, I'll just give you some points to ponder:

You cannot expect kids to invest in advanced medical education to make what blue collar workers make. You cannot expect a person to invest four years of college to be an RN and make as much as a UPS driver. You cannot expect a person to invest 8 years of their life and borrowed money to become a doctor and make as much as much as a truck driver.

You can't expect a medical facility to survive on receiving two-thirds of payment because of government patients without finding a way to recoup that money; especially procedures that cost up to a half-million dollars. You can't expect insurance companies to maintain premiums when people are going to the doctor and sending the bill to them where it costs more to process a claim than it is to pay it.

You can't expect a doctor to charge you $30.00 for an office visit when he or she is paying six figures for malpractice insurance. You can't expect insurance rates to go down when doctors are so scared of lawsuits that they constantly send you so a specialist for every ailment you have instead of taking care of the problems themselves. You can't expect insurance costs to go down because a care giver has to give you every test under the sun not because you need them, but to cover their asses; also known as Defensive Medicine.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The government establishment, political parties, capitalism, the ruling class never made me spend more than I make
The government establishment, political parties, capitalism, the ruling class never stopped me from saving money

Stop blaming everyone else for your failures

It has nothing to do with saving or spending. It has everything to do with opportunity, freedom, and justice for all.

I’ve done extraordinarily well but unlike you, I care about my fellow man and the future of the country.

When enormous wealth is obtained by a small elite, opportunity, freedom, and justice are diminished for the vast majority of the people. We are witnessing it first hand but some like you, are blind to reality.

Savings leads to opportunity.

Saving leads to financial freedom

If you save your money you will be in control of your own fate.

So if you really cared about your fellow man you would be telling them to save their money and not denigrating them by telling them that the fucking government has to come to their aid.

You did well but do you really think everyone else is so pathetic they can't do as well or better than you unless the fucking government steps in?

I'm afraid you will never understand. Many Americans must endure tough circumstances in their youth. Their parents aren't around or harm them in some way. They attend pubic schools that teach them nothing. They are exposed to all sorts of dysfunction, yet you stay tough it out. WTF is wrong with you?

The real problem are single-parent families. Trust me, I live in a black area. I see it all the time.

A teacher can only teach. But if the students refuse to learn, or the parents are totally disassociated with their child's education, the best teachers in the country can't help.

My sister sent her two kids to private Catholic school until college. My niece started falling behind and was issued a warning by the school. When you pay mucho bucks to educate your kids, you make sure you're going to get your money's worth.

So my sister sat with her every night helping with homework. She was grounded until her grades drastically improved. Her entertainment like television and internet were severely limited. She spent most of her time studying.

Her grades went up real fast, but my sister still monitored her activity very closely.

Public school? Put the kid on the bus and they are the teachers problem now, not mine. Public school is not paid by just me, it's paid for by the taxpayers.

Catholic Schools receive tax subsidies.

Only some do. Regardless, it costs parents 10K or more per child for private education.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So you want to fuck-over the American worker because the Chinese don't make as much?

You want to pander to the American worker causing their jobs to move overseas?

 

[initforme]

Explain how American workers shipped their jobs overseas. American workers today work harder and longer for their pay.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

Its pretty much the same over here. I will also add in zero hours contracts. A large section of society does not earn enough to save for a pension and this will have a huge impact in 20 years or so.

Inequality is the big problem. Capital exploits the differences to drive down wages. Strike for better pay or conditions and we will move your job to India where they will work for half your pay. How to break the cycle is a big conundrum.

It's not a big conundrum.

All that needs to happen is to take away all the tax benefits of moving jobs out of America and impose huge penalties to move our jobs to low wage nations.

Impose huge penalties in the form of huge taxes on all companies that move our jobs to other nations. Make it very expensive to move our jobs out of our nation. The republicans enacted tax laws that reward companies for moving out of our nation in the reagan years when reagan was sending our jobs to Japan. When the House was in democratic hands in 2007 they passed a bill that removed tax benefits for moving our jobs to other nations. The republicans filibustered it when it got to the senate. republicans won't do one thing to penalize any company that moves our jobs to other nations.

When greedy CEOs and business owners see that it's more expensive to move our jobs out of the nation they will stop doing it.

Tariffs won't stop it. Giving corporations and business huge tax cuts won't stop it.

Imposing huge penalties will.

However, I thought trump and republicans have been declaring us at full employment with 3.7% unemployment. Why would anyone worry about jobs being sent off shore if we have such low unemployment?

By the way, the unemployment rate was 4.7% when Obama left office. trump has lowered the unemployment rate by 1% in nearly 2 years, yet republicans and conservatives believe he's responsible for such a low unemployment rate.

When any republican lowers the unemployment rate from 10% down to 4.7% I'll give them credit for it. Yet I've not seem any republican president do that in the last over 20 years.

The answer is a lot simpler than that. Eliminate inequality.

What inequality do you speak of? We all get paid what we are worth.

You get payed the minimum that your employer can get away with.

Yes you do. So what is your point?

We all do it you know.

Assuming the quality is equal, if you get a lawn care company for your home, and get three estimates for $30.00 a cut, $50.00 a cut, or $80.00 a cut, which one do you choose?

If you lose the transmission of your car, do you have it repaired by the facility that estimated the work at $750.00, $1,000.00, or $1,200?

If you have a house fire, do you hire the builders that cost you $35,000, 45,000 or $60,000?

Now.......even if you decide to lie about it, I will tell you in advance most everybody chooses the cheapest labor they have to pay for. So why is it so wrong when companies do the same?

 

[initforme]

Todays employers have never had it easier finding good workers.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Explain how American workers shipped their jobs overseas. American workers today work harder and longer for their pay.

Because the American worker out-priced themselves compared to foreign labor. It took decades to do; especially with the help of unions, but that's exactly what we did.

 

[initforme]

People shouldnt apply to companies that pay low wages. Leave those jobs unfilled.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Todays employers have never had it easier finding good workers.

That's because you sit home all day. As a truck driver, I spend much of my time in industrial areas; all littered with HELP WANTED signs. Try it sometime, and then tell me how easy it is for employers to find help.

 

[initforme]

So workers should have asked for less money correct? That's almost comical. Neanderthal mentality. The job of a worker is to constantly make more money.