If Universal Healthcare is a Bad Idea...

[Votto]

Who should go without?

Go without what exactly?

People are turned down health coverage for a wide range of things, by both the government and private insurance under Obamacare

Most are turned down by the government.

Now if you want to see universal coverage in action, look at the VA. Why do those in the VA often seek health care outside the VA do you reckon?

 

[danielpalos]

i suggested something like that a couple of times. My idea is that if we want to give businesses tax cuts, give those cuts to employers who provide reasonable health insurance to their employees. As far as Medicare goes, allow people with preexisting conditions to join the program for a reasonable monthly cost just like we do with younger people on SS disability. That would reduce the costs to insurance companies and keep the cost of premiums down. Plus I think it's something any Democrat would go along with.

Medicare is massively in debt. For me it is fantastic. But it carries with it tens of trillions of dollars in unfunded liabilities.

Progressives think the "rich" should pay for all everyone's limitless health care. The trouble is, there just aren't enough rich! Anywhere. So how do you ration who gets a new heart and who ends up as a donor?

The right wing only blames the poor.

Super Rich Hide $21 Trillion Offshore, Study Says

 

[ricechickie]

Who should go without?

Go without what exactly?

People are turned down health coverage for a wide range of things, by both the government and private insurance under Obamacare

Most are turned down by the government.

Now if you want to see universal coverage in action, look at the VA. Why do those in the VA often seek health care outside the VA do you reckon?

Who is turned down by the government for healthcare? For what?

 

[Votto]

Who should go without?

Go without what exactly?

People are turned down health coverage for a wide range of things, by both the government and private insurance under Obamacare

Most are turned down by the government.

Now if you want to see universal coverage in action, look at the VA. Why do those in the VA often seek health care outside the VA do you reckon?

Who is turned down by the government for healthcare? For what?

http://www.galen.org/assets/08-rationing1.pdf

We have just seen the effects of government run health care in the VA as the sickest veterans were put on secret death lists in Arizona.

 

[ricechickie]

Who should go without?

Go without what exactly?

People are turned down health coverage for a wide range of things, by both the government and private insurance under Obamacare

Most are turned down by the government.

Now if you want to see universal coverage in action, look at the VA. Why do those in the VA often seek health care outside the VA do you reckon?

Who is turned down by the government for healthcare? For what?

http://www.galen.org/assets/08-rationing1.pdf

We have just seen the effects of government run health care in the VA as the sickest veterans were put on secret death lists in Arizona.

Can you provide a case, with a name attached, of a patient being denied care by the government, legally?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

I suppose if you're too dumb to know what you've bought then sure.

Any type a mandatory insurance is legalized extortion… So it cannot be trusted

You don't want a country do you?

The whole concept of insurance is fraudulent...

Single payer is not insurance.

It's worse if that's possible, it's a tax that cannot be controlled.

Yep, Medicare is spinning out of control.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

You're paid by a healthcare provider. You abide by their business plan whether you agree or not.

People no doubt hate seeing you coming.

I am paid, you have to pay the provider for your healthcare. If you have to pay for it it isn't a right.

So, guns are free then?

You are just too stupid. The second amendment affords the right to bear them, not the right to own one. You aren't really smart enough to be arguing.

Well, that's just retarded logic.

Really? You see, I have the right to own a gun, I do NOT have the right to have government supply it for Me.
I have the right to purchase health care, I do not have the right to have government supply it for Me.

The government cannot force Me to buy a gun even though I have a right to buy it.
The government cannot force Me to buy health care even though I have a right to buy it.

Understand?

Yes, really.

I have the right to 'bear arms' ,yet I still need to buy one first.

I have the right to healthcare, yet I still need to buy into a private plan or pay taxes toward it.

Not a single person except you rw dimwits has said anything about ' free' healthcare.
Single payer is paid for with a dedicated tax that everyone must pay. Not unlike Medicare.

 

[bendog]

Who should go without?

Those who cannot pay for it, or receive it as a benefit for their employment.

So what happens when those without it go to an emergency room that by law has to treat them? Or should they die instead of being treated?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Who should go without?

Go be poor someplace else.

It is your responsibility to pay your bills so go do it and quit your whining, Moon Bat..

So you like the individual mandate then?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Imagine if you lived in the UK. You'd probably be paying around 8% of your wages, and you'd get healthcare whether you were working or not. And you don't want this? You could go get private healthcare and still be under 25% of your wages and have higher quality healthcare.

Imagine Democrats had passed single payer instead of ACA. Imagine Trump and his basket of deplorables in charge of your health care. Go team!

Either way, I could be paying a lot of money for a healthcare system, or I could be paying a lot of money for nothing, which is better? The NHS is still better than nothing. You can still go out and get health insurance. You haven't got back to me on my other posts which clearly show US people pay MORE in taxes to the US federal govt for healthcare they don't receive than the British people pay for healthcare which they do.

 

[Redfish]

I am paid, you have to pay the provider for your healthcare. If you have to pay for it it isn't a right.

So, guns are free then?

You are just too stupid. The second amendment affords the right to bear them, not the right to own one. You aren't really smart enough to be arguing.

Well, that's just retarded logic.

Really? You see, I have the right to own a gun, I do NOT have the right to have government supply it for Me.
I have the right to purchase health care, I do not have the right to have government supply it for Me.

The government cannot force Me to buy a gun even though I have a right to buy it.
The government cannot force Me to buy health care even though I have a right to buy it.

Understand?

Yes, really.

I have the right to 'bear arms' ,yet I still need to buy one first.

I have the right to healthcare, yet I still need to buy into a private plan or pay taxes toward it.

Not a single person except you rw dimwits has said anything about ' free' healthcare.
Single payer is paid for with a dedicated tax that everyone must pay. Not unlike Medicare.

You do not have a constitutional right to free medical care, or medical care funded by taxes. You have a right to own a gun because of the second amendment.

If you think medical care is a constitutional right, quote the language from the constitution that makes it so.

 

[Redfish]

Who should go without?

Those who cannot pay for it, or receive it as a benefit for their employment.

So what happens when those without it go to an emergency room that by law has to treat them? Or should they die instead of being treated?

no one in the USA has ever been denied medical care at an ER. That is the case now and was the case before ACA.

 

[bendog]

Who should go without?

Those who cannot pay for it, or receive it as a benefit for their employment.

So what happens when those without it go to an emergency room that by law has to treat them? Or should they die instead of being treated?

no one in the USA has ever been denied medical care at an ER. That is the case now and was the case before ACA.

That's not the point. The post I responded to opined that no one should have treatment not paid by themselves of an employer sponsored plan? Care to respond to that?

 

[Redfish]

Who should go without?

Those who cannot pay for it, or receive it as a benefit for their employment.

So what happens when those without it go to an emergency room that by law has to treat them? Or should they die instead of being treated?

no one in the USA has ever been denied medical care at an ER. That is the case now and was the case before ACA.

That's not the point. The post I responded to opined that no one should have treatment not paid by themselves of an employer sponsored plan? Care to respond to that?

I disagree with that. Everyone should receive medical treatment. Everyone in the USA always has. That's the point. ACA was not a fix for a problem, it was an attempt for a government takeover of 1/6 of our economy. It was an attempt to make all medical care like the VA.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Who should go without?

Those who cannot pay for it, or receive it as a benefit for their employment.

So what happens when those without it go to an emergency room that by law has to treat them? Or should they die instead of being treated?

no one in the USA has ever been denied medical care at an ER. That is the case now and was the case before ACA.

Emergency care is not where healthcare ends.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Who should go without?

Those who cannot pay for it, or receive it as a benefit for their employment.

So what happens when those without it go to an emergency room that by law has to treat them? Or should they die instead of being treated?

no one in the USA has ever been denied medical care at an ER. That is the case now and was the case before ACA.

That's not the point. The post I responded to opined that no one should have treatment not paid by themselves of an employer sponsored plan? Care to respond to that?

I disagree with that. Everyone should receive medical treatment. Everyone in the USA always has. That's the point. ACA was not a fix for a problem, it was an attempt for a government takeover of 1/6 of our economy. It was an attempt to make all medical care like the VA.

Why are families going bankrupt over healthcare bills?

 

[PredFan]

So, guns are free then?

You are just too stupid. The second amendment affords the right to bear them, not the right to own one. You aren't really smart enough to be arguing.

Well, that's just retarded logic.

Really? You see, I have the right to own a gun, I do NOT have the right to have government supply it for Me.
I have the right to purchase health care, I do not have the right to have government supply it for Me.

The government cannot force Me to buy a gun even though I have a right to buy it.
The government cannot force Me to buy health care even though I have a right to buy it.

Understand?

Yes, really.

I have the right to 'bear arms' ,yet I still need to buy one first.

I have the right to healthcare, yet I still need to buy into a private plan or pay taxes toward it.

Not a single person except you rw dimwits has said anything about ' free' healthcare.
Single payer is paid for with a dedicated tax that everyone must pay. Not unlike Medicare.

You do not have a constitutional right to free medical care, or medical care funded by taxes. You have a right to own a gun because of the second amendment.

If you think medical care is a constitutional right, quote the language from the constitution that makes it so.

Actually, the 2nd Amendment guarantees us the right to BEAR arms, not the right to own them. In other words, you can carry a gun, have one in your home, on your property, but you can't demand someone give you a gun for free. It's not a right to a gun, its the right to bear one.

 

[danielpalos]

So, guns are free then?

You are just too stupid. The second amendment affords the right to bear them, not the right to own one. You aren't really smart enough to be arguing.

Well, that's just retarded logic.

Really? You see, I have the right to own a gun, I do NOT have the right to have government supply it for Me.
I have the right to purchase health care, I do not have the right to have government supply it for Me.

The government cannot force Me to buy a gun even though I have a right to buy it.
The government cannot force Me to buy health care even though I have a right to buy it.

Understand?

Yes, really.

I have the right to 'bear arms' ,yet I still need to buy one first.

I have the right to healthcare, yet I still need to buy into a private plan or pay taxes toward it.

Not a single person except you rw dimwits has said anything about ' free' healthcare.
Single payer is paid for with a dedicated tax that everyone must pay. Not unlike Medicare.

You do not have a constitutional right to free medical care, or medical care funded by taxes. You have a right to own a gun because of the second amendment.

If you think medical care is a constitutional right, quote the language from the constitution that makes it so.

Privileges and immunities that promote the general welfare are powers delegated to our legislators.

 

[bendog]

Who should go without?

Those who cannot pay for it, or receive it as a benefit for their employment.

So what happens when those without it go to an emergency room that by law has to treat them? Or should they die instead of being treated?

no one in the USA has ever been denied medical care at an ER. That is the case now and was the case before ACA.

That's not the point. The post I responded to opined that no one should have treatment not paid by themselves of an employer sponsored plan? Care to respond to that?

I disagree with that. Everyone should receive medical treatment. Everyone in the USA always has. That's the point. ACA was not a fix for a problem, it was an attempt for a government takeover of 1/6 of our economy. It was an attempt to make all medical care like the VA.

The gummit has already taken over HC in the economy. Our employer sponsored plans are paid through tax expenditures, namely tax breaks. That's been so since the 1950s. And the ACA wasn't explicity an attempt to make everyone be in the VA or medicare. If 60 dems in the senate wanted medicare for all we'd have hat it. Rather the ACA was an attempt to provide that treatment which was provided via ERs and having those with insurance pay for those without, but with cost control.

It's basic premise was: all insurance companies would get a specified profit on each policy offered. Consumers who did not already have coverage would be required to buy the policies, and those with lesser incomes would get tax subsidies. The consumers would buy the policies that covered the most services. Because insurance companies want to make money, they would price bargain with HC providers to get the cheapest care, so their policies could offer the most services.

The practical problem turned out to be that in most states, one insurance company pretty much has a monopoly in terms of having bargained with the providers. So, there's no real consumer choice. And NO INSENTIVE to get the lowest cost of services.

 

[PredFan]

You are just too stupid. The second amendment affords the right to bear them, not the right to own one. You aren't really smart enough to be arguing.

Well, that's just retarded logic.

Really? You see, I have the right to own a gun, I do NOT have the right to have government supply it for Me.
I have the right to purchase health care, I do not have the right to have government supply it for Me.

The government cannot force Me to buy a gun even though I have a right to buy it.
The government cannot force Me to buy health care even though I have a right to buy it.

Understand?

Yes, really.

I have the right to 'bear arms' ,yet I still need to buy one first.

I have the right to healthcare, yet I still need to buy into a private plan or pay taxes toward it.

Not a single person except you rw dimwits has said anything about ' free' healthcare.
Single payer is paid for with a dedicated tax that everyone must pay. Not unlike Medicare.

You do not have a constitutional right to free medical care, or medical care funded by taxes. You have a right to own a gun because of the second amendment.

If you think medical care is a constitutional right, quote the language from the constitution that makes it so.

Privileges and immunities that promote the general welfare are powers delegated to our legislators.

Those aren't the words, that is your opinion.