If Universal Healthcare is a Bad Idea...

[Aletheia4u]

Here's some good info on what is going on..

 

[Anathema]

The right wing is trying to "repeal that right"; they have no solutions, just repeal.

Repeal is the answer for the privilege of healthcare.

 

[dblack]

And as I've stated, universal healthcare doesn't take away the choice, it ADDS choice.

Freedom is Slavery?

Slavery is freedom?

(it's a quote from 1984 - a dystopian novel where the government waged a propaganda war by undermining language with contradictory claims that render the certain 'inconvenient' words meaningless)

 

[danielpalos]

Yes, really.

I have the right to 'bear arms' ,yet I still need to buy one first.

I have the right to healthcare, yet I still need to buy into a private plan or pay taxes toward it.

Not a single person except you rw dimwits has said anything about ' free' healthcare.
Single payer is paid for with a dedicated tax that everyone must pay. Not unlike Medicare.

You do not have a constitutional right to free medical care, or medical care funded by taxes. You have a right to own a gun because of the second amendment.

If you think medical care is a constitutional right, quote the language from the constitution that makes it so.

Privileges and immunities that promote the general welfare are powers delegated to our legislators.

Those aren't the words, that is your opinion.

Those are the powers established by our federal Constitution.

No, it isn't. Prove me wrong, give us the words.

Yes, it is. You merely have lousy reading comprehension and repeal. Coincidence or conspiracy?

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

 

[Anathema]

I'd thank you for playing if you tried, but I'll ignore you since you did not.

You asked a question. I gave you an honest, direct answer. What more did you expect?

 

[dblack]

So what happens when those without it go to an emergency room that by law has to treat them? Or should they die instead of being treated?

They shoild die, and thereby improve thge American gene pool.

That's a stupid answer, one I hope you don't really believe. It just fuels the usually stingy conservative stereotype.

 

[danielpalos]

Yes, really.

I have the right to 'bear arms' ,yet I still need to buy one first.

I have the right to healthcare, yet I still need to buy into a private plan or pay taxes toward it.

Not a single person except you rw dimwits has said anything about ' free' healthcare.
Single payer is paid for with a dedicated tax that everyone must pay. Not unlike Medicare.

You do not have a constitutional right to free medical care, or medical care funded by taxes. You have a right to own a gun because of the second amendment.

If you think medical care is a constitutional right, quote the language from the constitution that makes it so.

Privileges and immunities that promote the general welfare are powers delegated to our legislators.

I asked for a quote, you gave me an opinion.

You Only need Ten Commandments if everything is that simple.

Those are the powers delegated to Congress via our federal Constitution.

Yes, and they are specific. Tell us where the right to healthcare exists.

Providing healthcare provides for the general welfare.

There is no, common Offense clause nor any general Warfare clause.

 

[danielpalos]

The right wing is trying to "repeal that right"; they have no solutions, just repeal.

Repeal is the answer for the privilege of healthcare.

Only in Third World economies, not First World economies.

 

[danielpalos]

And as I've stated, universal healthcare doesn't take away the choice, it ADDS choice.

Freedom is Slavery?

Slavery is freedom?

(it's a quote from 1984 - a dystopian novel where the government waged a propaganda war by undermining language with contradictory claims that render the certain 'inconvenient' words meaningless)

Just like the right wing. I read 1984.

 

[danielpalos]

So what happens when those without it go to an emergency room that by law has to treat them? Or should they die instead of being treated?

They shoild die, and thereby improve thge American gene pool.

That's a stupid answer, one I hope you don't really believe. It just fuels the usually stingy conservative stereotype.

That is the impression the right wing always gives. And, it is not just about, dblacks.

 

[Anathema]

That's a stupid answer, one I hope you don't really believe. It just fuels the usually stingy conservative stereotype.

I believe every word of it. I prefer "frugal personally.

 

[Anathema]

Only in Third World economies, not First World economies.

In EVERY economy until well after WHII.

 

[danielpalos]

Only in Third World economies, not First World economies.

In EVERY economy until well after WHII.

The right wing only believes in the general warfare not the general welfare.

 

[bendog]

Really? You see, I have the right to own a gun, I do NOT have the right to have government supply it for Me.
I have the right to purchase health care, I do not have the right to have government supply it for Me.

The government cannot force Me to buy a gun even though I have a right to buy it.
The government cannot force Me to buy health care even though I have a right to buy it.

Understand?

Yes, really.

I have the right to 'bear arms' ,yet I still need to buy one first.

I have the right to healthcare, yet I still need to buy into a private plan or pay taxes toward it.

Not a single person except you rw dimwits has said anything about ' free' healthcare.
Single payer is paid for with a dedicated tax that everyone must pay. Not unlike Medicare.

You do not have a constitutional right to free medical care, or medical care funded by taxes. You have a right to own a gun because of the second amendment.

If you think medical care is a constitutional right, quote the language from the constitution that makes it so.

You do not have a constitutional right to free medical care,

No one has said healthcare should be free, dumbass.

They say health care is a 'right'. What else does that mean?

The right wing is trying to "repeal that right"; they have no solutions, just repeal.

Posters are mixing and matching govt powers and individual rights.

We have various rights. Constitutional rights are those the BOR expressly confer upon us, and that includes the right to own guns ... and travel between states, and contract, and own property, etc. There's some confusion on the 2nd and the 18th century meaning of "infringed," but that's a different thread. And there are statutory rights, like medicare and Medicaid, where the gummit passes a law providing the govt does something to people who are defined by the law as being eligible.

The gummit has various powers. It can restrict rights when courts find the restrictions legitimate and necessary. The gummit can regulate commerce. Obamacare would have been justified under the commerce clause by the SC that Reagan inherited. Justice Roberts has a view of the commerce clause that existed before civil rights laws. But he's the chief and the gop has more Justices than the dems. Nevertheless, under even today's more "conservative" SC, govt's power to tax is pretty much unchallenged, so far as equal protection is complied with, and even there progressive taxes are constitutional.

You cannot compare a right to own a gun with a right to get HC. HC is not in the BOR.

The gummit certainly can tax you for HC. We "pay" for employer tax breaks; we all pay for Medicaid and Medicare. The gummt can tax those with more, more.

The question was whether gummit can tax person A who chooses not to by insurance when not taxing person B who does buy insurance. The question for Obamacare was whehter one person having insurance and another not was a consitutioanlly permissible reason to tax them differently. J. Roberts said yes. However, there is not, and never has been, a law that says you have to buy something.

The irony is that the healthcare industry is regulated by congress, and has been for over 50 years. In attempting to avoid that practical reality, Roberts reached a politically and possibly legally indefensible position. And he may very well have done that intentionally.

 

[featherlite]

nice.

Children are a renewable commodity, with a 9 month lead time to order. The elderly are used up and no longer provide a benefit to Society.

I take it you have no elderly family members? Children as a renewable commodity. smh

From what I know of single payer...it sounds like the best option. Everything else has failed miserably.

 

[Anathema]

The right wing only believes in the general warfare not the general welfare.

Not at all. Conservatives want to see us out of military involvement in other countries and focusing on National Defense, not foreign defense.

Likewise, Conservatives simply understand thst the General Welfsre of the nation is not slwsys the same as the general welfare of 100% of our citizens. Conservatives also understand that a starving, homeless man is far more motivated than one with food and shelter from the Government.

 

[PredFan]

You do not have a constitutional right to free medical care, or medical care funded by taxes. You have a right to own a gun because of the second amendment.

If you think medical care is a constitutional right, quote the language from the constitution that makes it so.

Privileges and immunities that promote the general welfare are powers delegated to our legislators.

Those aren't the words, that is your opinion.

Those are the powers established by our federal Constitution.

No, it isn't. Prove me wrong, give us the words.

Yes, it is. You merely have lousy reading comprehension and repeal. Coincidence or conspiracy?

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

I knew you would post that, that has been debunked many times already. It is merely your interpretation of "general welfare". I knew you couldn't prove what isn't true.

 

[PredFan]

You do not have a constitutional right to free medical care, or medical care funded by taxes. You have a right to own a gun because of the second amendment.

If you think medical care is a constitutional right, quote the language from the constitution that makes it so.

Privileges and immunities that promote the general welfare are powers delegated to our legislators.

I asked for a quote, you gave me an opinion.

You Only need Ten Commandments if everything is that simple.

Those are the powers delegated to Congress via our federal Constitution.

Yes, and they are specific. Tell us where the right to healthcare exists.

Providing healthcare provides for the general welfare.

There is no, common Offense clause nor any general Warfare clause.

Your interpretation does not make heathcare into a right. Sorry.

 

[dblack]

So what happens when those without it go to an emergency room that by law has to treat them? Or should they die instead of being treated?

They shoild die, and thereby improve thge American gene pool.

That's a stupid answer, one I hope you don't really believe. It just fuels the usually stingy conservative stereotype.

That is the impression the right wing always gives. And, it is not just about, dblacks.

I guess that's part of why I've never considered myself a conservative. Even when I agree with them, it's usually for different reasons.

 

[danielpalos]

Yes, really.

I have the right to 'bear arms' ,yet I still need to buy one first.

I have the right to healthcare, yet I still need to buy into a private plan or pay taxes toward it.

Not a single person except you rw dimwits has said anything about ' free' healthcare.
Single payer is paid for with a dedicated tax that everyone must pay. Not unlike Medicare.

You do not have a constitutional right to free medical care, or medical care funded by taxes. You have a right to own a gun because of the second amendment.

If you think medical care is a constitutional right, quote the language from the constitution that makes it so.

You do not have a constitutional right to free medical care,

No one has said healthcare should be free, dumbass.

They say health care is a 'right'. What else does that mean?

The right wing is trying to "repeal that right"; they have no solutions, just repeal.

Posters are mixing and matching govt powers and individual rights.

We have various rights. Constitutional rights are those the BOR expressly confer upon us, and that includes the right to own guns ... and travel between states, and contract, and own property, etc. There's some confusion on the 2nd and the 18th century meaning of "infringed," but that's a different thread. And there are statutory rights, like medicare and Medicaid, where the gummit passes a law providing the govt does something to people who are defined by the law as being eligible.

The gummit has various powers. It can restrict rights when courts find the restrictions legitimate and necessary. The gummit can regulate commerce. Obamacare would have been justified under the commerce clause by the SC that Reagan inherited. Justice Roberts has a view of the commerce clause that existed before civil rights laws. But he's the chief and the gop has more Justices than the dems. Nevertheless, under even today's more "conservative" SC, govt's power to tax is pretty much unchallenged, so far as equal protection is complied with, and even there progressive taxes are constitutional.

You cannot compare a right to own a gun with a right to get HC. HC is not in the BOR.

The gummit certainly can tax you for HC. We "pay" for employer tax breaks; we all pay for Medicaid and Medicare. The gummt can tax those with more, more.

The question was whether gummit can tax person A who chooses not to by insurance when not taxing person B who does buy insurance. The question for Obamacare was whehter one person having insurance and another not was a consitutioanlly permissible reason to tax them differently. J. Roberts said yes. However, there is not, and never has been, a law that says you have to buy something.

The irony is that the healthcare industry is regulated by congress, and has been for over 50 years. In attempting to avoid that practical reality, Roberts reached a politically and possibly legally indefensible position. And he may very well have done that intentionally.

It is about "health and safety" not gun rights or gun obligations.