If Universal Healthcare is a Bad Idea...

[Markle]

I have a nephew who's son is a self employed studio musician, so he has no group insurance. He is 22, and married. He has juvenile diabetes, and his wife gave birth to a baby boy with a hole in his heart. According to the GOP budget director, and several posters on this board, he does not deserve insurance for himself, or his son, because they made "bad lifestyle decisions". However, thanks to ACA, he is getting his medication, and the baby had heart surgery. I guess that they should be labeled deadbeats.

Please show the quote where anyone has said they wouldn't deserve health insurance because of "bad lifestyle decisions". Or, are you lying?

White House Budget Director Excludes Diabetics From Healthcare With 5 SHAMEFUL Words

So if a terrible diet and being overweight is the cause of Type 2 diabetes, he has a point doesn't he?

 

[Vandalshandle]

I have a nephew who's son is a self employed studio musician, so he has no group insurance. He is 22, and married. He has juvenile diabetes, and his wife gave birth to a baby boy with a hole in his heart. According to the GOP budget director, and several posters on this board, he does not deserve insurance for himself, or his son, because they made "bad lifestyle decisions". However, thanks to ACA, he is getting his medication, and the baby had heart surgery. I guess that they should be labeled deadbeats.

Please show the quote where anyone has said they wouldn't deserve health insurance because of "bad lifestyle decisions". Or, are you lying?

White House Budget Director Excludes Diabetics From Healthcare With 5 SHAMEFUL Words

So if a terrible diet and being overweight is the cause of Type 2 diabetes, he has a point doesn't he?

Get in touch with Ray in Cleveland. You two should get a room.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Who should go without?

... those who choose do.

You know, like the 22 million identified by the CBO during their analysis of the Senate bill.

Very few of them are people who will choose to go without. You idiot.

 

[DoctorinPA73]

its a very bad idea. Canada has population of less than Californias

With next to no military defense budget( compared to US)

Thats why Canada got away universal health care

US needs nukes to babysit planet Earth , remember?

 

[Mac1958]

Tell Me something. When Obamacare kicked in, did I get to stop paying for all those emergency room visits that were not covered by Obamacare?

Nope. The ACA is Ridiculous Pig I, from which the GOP was going to save us.

Instead, they were lying and are now trying to serve up Ridiculous Pig II.
.

 

[Mac1958]

Instead of demanding I pay for those who won't, why don't you demand that people take responsibility for their own life?

You're already paying for those who don't.

Those expensive ER visits that people access for "free" because they have nothing else? You're paying for that.

Not necessarily. How those losses are absorbed is entirely situational. But you're right to point out that EMTALA is an unfunded mandate, and when faced with these kinds of mandates, business have to find a way account for the loss. In general, they have to cut jobs, raise prices or go out of business.

In any case, you have to appreciate how this sounds to those us opposed to these mandates in the first place. We hear you saying "Listen, we have to have this new law that violates your rights because of this other law that violates your rights." - it doesn't make a lot of sense. It's drinking to cure a hangover.

Yeah, we're simply not going to max out access, low cost and quality, at least not until medical technology takes a few more steps (which it will). For now, however, I think that expanding the Medicare/Medicare Supplement/Medicare Advantage system to all solves/mitigates the most problems at one time. It's a reasonable point of equilibrium between Single Payer (where we appear to be heading) and free market competition. And a side benefit is that it takes a massive cost monkey off the backs of American business.

This would just be driving things off a cliff. It would only further distort an already decimated health care market. The only way health care prices will come back in line with everything else we need is if we start treating health care like everything else we need, and quit chasing the fantasy that we can get someone else to pay for it.

It would actually greatly simplify the health care/insurance market. Medicare Supplements are about the simplest form of health care insurance, as they remove responsibility for low-end record-keeping for insurance companies. Medicare Advantage plans take people off Medicare and put all of their billing in the hands of the insurance company.

Plus, it would be a boon to insurance companies, as it would open up the entire country to their plans, instead of this current 65+ sliver.

This stuff about paying for other people is absolutely, completely, moot. You're already paying for other people, and as the number of insured goes up, you'll be paying more.

Right now, whether you like this or not, we're headed towards Single Payer. The GOP lied, they just wanted to get elected, they don't have a better plan - mostly because they're politically paralyzed by their ideology.

So it might not be a bad idea to face that, and then get behind something that retains dynamic free market competition, like what I propose.
.

 

[frigidweirdo]

its a very bad idea. Canada has population of less than Californias

With next to no military defense budget( compared to US)

Thats why Canada got away universal health care

US needs nukes to babysit planet Earth , remember?

The UK govt spends LESS per capita on healthcare than the US federal govt spends. Go figure.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I have a nephew who's son is a self employed studio musician, so he has no group insurance. He is 22, and married. He has juvenile diabetes, and his wife gave birth to a baby boy with a hole in his heart. According to the GOP budget director, and several posters on this board, he does not deserve insurance for himself, or his son, because they made "bad lifestyle decisions". However, thanks to ACA, he is getting his medication, and the baby had heart surgery. I guess that they should be labeled deadbeats.

Music is great but not a reliable source of income. I've been a musician all of my life. I was in bands. I taught guitar at my home. I took a job at a music studio teaching, but it was all part-time because everybody and their mother plays an instrument.

I never perused that lottery ticket because I needed a stable income. I needed to know I have a place to work the next morning. I needed to know I have a paycheck coming every other week.

Nothing would make me happier than to pull my Les Paul out of the case and play for a living, but that's unrealistic. Extra money? Sure, nothing wrong with that. But I would not insist the taxpayers fund my dream no matter how unlikely my success would be.

During my prime I was pressured to pursue music. People considered me one of the fastest and best lead guitarists in the Cleveland area. But if it's one thing I learned about music, it's that there is always somebody better than you. So get a job and let music be something on the side.

Ray, you are definitely starting to confuse me. You posted that you had some sort of individual health insurance policy that you lost because the company withdrew the policy because it did not meet ACA mandates. This implies that you had no group health insurance. If fact, you have implied that since you lost that great individual health policy, that you have no insurance at all, in spite of the fact that it is available to you through ACA, though you can't afford it.. If that is the case, what is the difference between you and my "irresponsible" nephew's son that you call irresponsible because he had a family before getting health insurance? In fact, who is the most irresponsible, you with no insurance, or my nephew's son, with ACA insurance?

You are losing your credibility, Ray.

Not at all, and it had nothing to do with our insurance not being to ACA standards because I work for a small company of under 50 employees. We are exempt from those standards.

My employer dropped insurance because Commie Care gave him the ability to do so without losing all of his workers. That wasn't possible before Commie Care because many of our employees would have left for companies that still had insurance.

Until Commie Care came along, I had insurance all of my life and I have preexisting conditions. Okay, so go find another job! Not so easy in your mid 50's as it is in your mid 20's. The jobs I did call all said the same thing, they too dropped coverage for their employees. So keep looking until you find a company that has health insurance! Okay, even if I could do that, and I start with a new company at the bottom of the ladder, what's stopping them from dropping their insurance a year or two after I take the job? Nothing, because we have Commie Care now.

So I'm in a bad position. Commie Care wants 25% of my net pay to get insurance, and it's not even insurance really. There is only one plan for me to keep my healthcare facility, and it comes with a $7,000 deductible and a $7,100 out of pocket. There is no prescription, no dental, no eye care, and a $50.00 copay for doctors visits.

Like I said, Commie Care was designed for Democrat voters--low wage workers, and it's the middle income people that get screwed because there are many more Republican voters who are middle-class. A french fry maker can get insurance for fifty bucks a month but middle-income workers would get the same plan for $700.00 a month. It's was a vote buying scam right from the beginning. Take care of Democrat voters and let Republican voters die off.

 

[Lovebears65]

Who should go without?

People on social programs. Every time this subject comes up in the media, their first concern is what about the poor people? Well, what about the working people is my question?

Working people are the ones who are paying for the non-working, and some of us working people don't have coverage ourselves. In the meantime, the poor are popping out kids like a popcorn machine and the rest of us have to support them including their medical.

So poor children and the elderly who are poor should go without?

Do you have a good argument as to why those groups should be punished for doing no wrong?

Poor children and elderly have never went without... The have medicaid for the poor and medicare for the elderly this is a moot point

 

[Marion Morrison]

Man, I was just looking at doctor receipts from when I was 7 years old, $26, $27


Fuck universal health care, I think I may to go to a doctor now, possibly picked up a lung infection at the hospital.

I won't pay more than $125 plus prescription.

It's pretty bad that I have to pay that $125 just to get antibiotics that I know that's what I need.

 

[Anathema]

nice.

Children are a renewable commodity, with a 9 month lead time to order. The elderly are used up and no longer provide a benefit to Society.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I have a nephew who's son is a self employed studio musician, so he has no group insurance. He is 22, and married. He has juvenile diabetes, and his wife gave birth to a baby boy with a hole in his heart. According to the GOP budget director, and several posters on this board, he does not deserve insurance for himself, or his son, because they made "bad lifestyle decisions". However, thanks to ACA, he is getting his medication, and the baby had heart surgery. I guess that they should be labeled deadbeats.

Music is great but not a reliable source of income. I've been a musician all of my life. I was in bands. I taught guitar at my home. I took a job at a music studio teaching, but it was all part-time because everybody and their mother plays an instrument.

I never perused that lottery ticket because I needed a stable income. I needed to know I have a place to work the next morning. I needed to know I have a paycheck coming every other week.

Nothing would make me happier than to pull my Les Paul out of the case and play for a living, but that's unrealistic. Extra money? Sure, nothing wrong with that. But I would not insist the taxpayers fund my dream no matter how unlikely my success would be.

During my prime I was pressured to pursue music. People considered me one of the fastest and best lead guitarists in the Cleveland area. But if it's one thing I learned about music, it's that there is always somebody better than you. So get a job and let music be something on the side.

Ray, you are definitely starting to confuse me. You posted that you had some sort of individual health insurance policy that you lost because the company withdrew the policy because it did not meet ACA mandates. This implies that you had no group health insurance. If fact, you have implied that since you lost that great individual health policy, that you have no insurance at all, in spite of the fact that it is available to you through ACA, though you can't afford it.. If that is the case, what is the difference between you and my "irresponsible" nephew's son that you call irresponsible because he had a family before getting health insurance? In fact, who is the most irresponsible, you with no insurance, or my nephew's son, with ACA insurance?

You are losing your credibility, Ray.

Not at all, and it had nothing to do with our insurance not being to ACA standards because I work for a small company of under 50 employees. We are exempt from those standards.

My employer dropped insurance because Commie Care gave him the ability to do so without losing all of his workers. That wasn't possible before Commie Care because many of our employees would have left for companies that still had insurance.

Until Commie Care came along, I had insurance all of my life and I have preexisting conditions. Okay, so go find another job! Not so easy in your mid 50's as it is in your mid 20's. The jobs I did call all said the same thing, they too dropped coverage for their employees. So keep looking until you find a company that has health insurance! Okay, even if I could do that, and I start with a new company at the bottom of the ladder, what's stopping them from dropping their insurance a year or two after I take the job? Nothing, because we have Commie Care now.

So I'm in a bad position. Commie Care wants 25% of my net pay to get insurance, and it's not even insurance really. There is only one plan for me to keep my healthcare facility, and it comes with a $7,000 deductible and a $7,100 out of pocket. There is no prescription, no dental, no eye care, and a $50.00 copay for doctors visits.

Like I said, Commie Care was designed for Democrat voters--low wage workers, and it's the middle income people that get screwed because there are many more Republican voters who are middle-class. A french fry maker can get insurance for fifty bucks a month but middle-income workers would get the same plan for $700.00 a month. It's was a vote buying scam right from the beginning. Take care of Democrat voters and let Republican voters die off.

Imagine if you lived in the UK. You'd probably be paying around 8% of your wages, and you'd get healthcare whether you were working or not. And you don't want this? You could go get private healthcare and still be under 25% of your wages and have higher quality healthcare.

 

[dblack]

Imagine if you lived in the UK. You'd probably be paying around 8% of your wages, and you'd get healthcare whether you were working or not. And you don't want this? You could go get private healthcare and still be under 25% of your wages and have higher quality healthcare.

Imagine Democrats had passed single payer instead of ACA. Imagine Trump and his basket of deplorables in charge of your health care. Go team!

 

[danielpalos]

No, it isn't. It is called, risk management. The right wing would know that, if they had more than just repeal.

Any community that pays for things with insurance/socialist entitlement programs is just asking for sky high costs....

Spreading risk lowers costs.

No, any group of people thinking insurance will pay for everything doesn't care about cost…
It's best for people to pay for their own shit...

A "national health care tax" could solve that problem.

It would only help Deadbeats...

It would make it easier for anyone.

 

[danielpalos]

You're paid by a healthcare provider. You abide by their business plan whether you agree or not.

People no doubt hate seeing you coming.

I am paid, you have to pay the provider for your healthcare. If you have to pay for it it isn't a right.

So, guns are free then?

You are just too stupid. The second amendment affords the right to bear them, not the right to own one. You aren't really smart enough to be arguing.

Well, that's just retarded logic.

Really? You see, I have the right to own a gun, I do NOT have the right to have government supply it for Me.
I have the right to purchase health care, I do not have the right to have government supply it for Me.

The government cannot force Me to buy a gun even though I have a right to buy it.
The government cannot force Me to buy health care even though I have a right to buy it.

Understand?

You can be drafted and issued a gun.

 

[danielpalos]

Who should go without?

Go be poor someplace else.

It is your responsibility to pay your bills so go do it and quit your whining, Moon Bat..

In the Age of Corporate Welfare? The wing prefers to "hate on the poor, Individuals."

 

[danielpalos]

It's never a good Idea to give the government a say in whether you live or die.

Your loved ones should be who makes that call.

That, to me, is the prime issue in all of this. I don't want the health of my friends and family subjected to politics.

But then your health is in the hands of private companies, is that better?

Yes, much.

\

I disagree.

Which is your right. Unlike healthcare.

We don't want the "near dead and near dying", on the street. It is why we have, emergency coverage.

 

[danielpalos]

Universal health care is not a bad idea; the right wing merely has, nothing but repeal, that is the problem.

Universal health care is a failure. In countries where it is practiced, it provides poor care to everyday workers and the wealthy have a separate cash system.

From all the news of late, I'm certain you are well aware that they have death panels as we do with Obamacare.

You're right the right has screwed this up by not having a reasonable plan in place. My guess is they did not expect Donald Trump to win either until it was too late to start work.

Having the "dead and dying on the streets" is worse.

 

[Rustic]

Any community that pays for things with insurance/socialist entitlement programs is just asking for sky high costs....

Spreading risk lowers costs.

No, any group of people thinking insurance will pay for everything doesn't care about cost…
It's best for people to pay for their own shit...

A "national health care tax" could solve that problem.

It would only help Deadbeats...

It would make it easier for anyone.

No, it would be taken advantage by people that don't want to pay for their own shit...

 

[Mr Natural]

No, it would be taken advantage by people that don't want to pay for their own shit...

Because what's more fun than a day at the doctors' office?